Toilets
 

Hello, all. I'll be going to Italy shortly, and wondered what the toilets are like. That is, do the facilities tend to be up to U.S. standards? Are public restrooms generally available, or where might be the best places to find them (eg- restaurants, cafes, shops, etc.)? And how's the toilet paper? I've heard that in some countries it's none to gentle to delicate body parts, and of course I'll bring a roll of my own to be safe. <BR> Thanks for your help, <BR> Frank

Pack a few of those pocket-sized kleenex packs. They're less conspicuous than carrying around a roll of toilet paper.

Frank: They only use "John Wayne paper" in Europe, as in "tough as hell and won't take s**t off anybody". <BR> <BR>However, I believe that toilet paper is the least of your problems.

Italy does have some pretty dreadful toilets. Most are fine, but you will find the odd stand up, hole in the ground, surrounded by filth, job. Definately have some tissues in your pocket, and some 1000lire pieces.

The only remaining Turkish Toilet (hole in the ground with porcelain 'footprints') that I know of in Rome is behind San Pietro in Vincoli. There are undoubtedly others, but there were and are far fewer than in Paris and the rest of France. <BR> <BR>Most of the 'gabinetti' in Italy are in good to excellent shape. As in the US some in hole-in-the-wall restaurants are a little ancient. Most of the public toilets (e.g. airport) are better than their US equivalent. (I believe all of the bottom 10 toilets I've been in on my travels around the US and Europe are in US filling stations ... nothing in Europe quite compares in my 35 years of experience in travel. <BR> <BR>In nice restaurants and top-drawer hotels you'll find far better (attractive) bathrooms from an architectural point of view than in the US. <BR> <BR>John Wayne wallpaper is a thing of the past. 35 years ago you could count on crepe paper toilet paper. All I've run across the last few years is perhaps just a tad firmer than the puffy cotton paper many Americans use, but is unlikely to be uncomfortable except for princesses who are bothered by peas under their mattresses. <BR> <BR>In general, while I hope I won't offend, the question, and some of the answers, sound like they could come from folks who believe the US is the leading civilization and all else third-world at best. Anyone who travels to Europe with that attitude is usually better off staying home. <BR> <BR>Do not, under any circumstances, take the natives nylons and chocolate hoping to seduce these savages. <BR> <BR>Ed <BR>

Well, you haven't lived until you have endured a "chinese" toilet! Especially, in the country, but this forum is about Europe. Best not to expect too much if you get off the beaten track. Go into a cafe and order a coffee and then use the facilities when you find them, and take some disinfectant if you are worried. Public restrooms usually have an attentant who will hand you paper and expect some coin in exchange...some are pay toilets. I did not find too many free ones, except in hotels and restaurants, often down a long flight of stairs, buy hey! you want a change of scene, right?

Hey Ed - Where do you get off making a comment like that, and prefacing it with "I hope I won't offend"? That's exactly what you meant to do! I think telling someone to pack some tissues for a trip to Europe is pretty sound advice. What's your problem?

Uncas, I think telling people to pack toilet tissues on a trip to Europe is stupid and insulting. <BR> <BR>This thread is beginning to turn me toward the belief I've rejected for years. Do Americans make good travelers? Starting to sound like not only no, but hell no. <BR> <BR>Take your toilet paper. Take your bottled water. Take your instant coffee. But for heaven's sake, learn to speak with a Canadian accent so the Europeans won't think you're American!

There are still some "Turkish" toilets in Italy -- even in one of the major museums in Florence (but at least it was clean). (I don't happen to remember which museum.) In my last two trips to Italy (l997, 2000), I do not remember seeing any pay toilets. They were either free or nonexistent, but they seemed to be more plentiful than in the USA. Compared to 35 years ago when there were filthy Turkish toilets and the toilet paper, if any was often just last week's newspaper, the toilets now are fine, certainly no worse than Ameican ones, although the plumbing design is more quirky and often less modern. It is often hard to figure out how to flush. It may be a foot pedal, a string from the ceiling, a button -- just push, press, pull. turn everything in sight until flushing occurs. If you're hiking or strolling in the countryside both women and men may be happier using the "bushes" (obviously not right near houses, gardens, crops, churches, cemeteries)instead of waiting for a public toilet or counting on a cafe or church with a toilet in the next town. So of course you should carry tissues or toilet paper or whatever paper you're comfortable carrying and using, plus zip lock bags to carry it out until you find an appropriate place to dispose of it. And just as in the USA, it is stupid to travel without such paper or to assume that every indoor public toilet will have nice paper, or any paper. Stopping at little shops for a granita, a cafe, a pastry, a cold drink, etc., and then asking to use the toilet is perfectly acceptable, and unlike in the USA, the shopkeepers always seem to cheerfully direct you to thier toilet (i.e., it's not employees-only).

<BR>Ed, I think you owe American travelers an apology because I, too, found your posts to be very insulting to us. <BR> <BR>Evidentally you not only have a problem with American travelers but you need to read some other travel websites' advice other than your own. Many I have read do recommend we take tissues "just in case" and for those with delicate stomachs traveling through certain countries or multiple ones, drinking bottled water can help. What is so wrong with trying to take precautions to make sure one has a better trip even "if" it is just carrying extra tissues. Would you prefer we walk around Europe stinking and having diaherra! I carry tissues for this purpose even in America! <BR> <BR>Since your website and your advice is usually so excellent, I will just hope that you wrote your replies "before" you had your coffee and I don't resent you if you drink "instant". "I" do and I would even if I lived in Italy!

P.S. Bottled water may CAUSE diarrhea!!! Note the mineral content on the label. Europeans like spring water with a high mineral content. Often the label lists a very high content of magnesium. It may be good for you, but is probably more than we are used to in USA unless we take magnesium supplements or drink certain bottled waters. So if you drink a lot of typical European water at the beginning of the trip, it may have the same effect as taking milk of magnesia! If so, don't blame it on the few drops of public water you got when brushing your teeth; it's probably from the bottled water you bought in order to avoid the sink water! In a country with safe water (e.g., almost all, if not all, of Italy), it is best to drink sink water (where reliable people tell you it's potable) as well as bottled water, until you get used to the high mineral content of the store-bought wateer.

Ed, women need paper. We don't like to drip dry. Only an idiot would refrain from carrying tissues.

<BR>I think Ed's points are right on (as they usually are). I, too, found Frank's question ("up to US standards") to be borderline provincial and chauvenistic. In fact, I was going to compliment Ed on his tact and restraint; the response on the tip of my tongue (fingers??) was more blunt (somthing about toilet seats dribbled w/urine, toilets clogged w/paper & feces, paper stewn all over the floor but not a sheet to use -- all here in the good ol' USA's public restrooms at malls, gas stations, even college hallways). And, as Tom suggests, toilet paper may be the least of Frank's troubles in Europe. Travelling is about discovery, joy, and experimentation, not <BR>trepidation and judgment. BTW, I'm one of those nervous Americans with plenty of digestion problems, so if I wanted to, I could really get upset and worried about the facilities in my travels. It's a decision. I travel; I cope. <BR> <BR>BTW, there's nothing wrong with taking tissues "just in case" as we do here in the US -- but you know you can buy all of your toiletry needs overseas! No need to "pack" toilet paper. <BR> <BR>s

Norena, first thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately I had my coffee earlier. <BR> <BR>I'll stand by my statement re bottled water. I cannot believe it when I hear of people taking bottled water from the US to drink in Europe. I find it idiotic. I apologize to any whom I offend with that opinion, but it's my opinion. <BR> <BR>As to the toilet paper Norena and Americangirl, irregardless of what others may counsel, I think it's completely unnecessary to carry rolls of toilet paper from the US to Western Europe. <BR> <BR>You say you may not like the toilet paper in your hotel? Go to the grocery store (alimentari) and find a brand that seems softer. Yes ... Europeans actually sell toilet paper in their stores. It's been a year or now since they had to depend on American tourists importing the item for them. <BR> <BR>American girl: as to carrying a bit of tissue in your purse, in fact Julie does that all the time. I do understand that even the fanciest restaurants and museums in the US and Europe occasionally allow a TP roll to be depleted. That, however, is quite different from carrying rolls across the Atlantic. Julie's stash in her purse comes from the roll in the hotel room. <BR> <BR>As to my liking American tourists? I'm one of their biggest defenders. I believe the stereotypical boorinsh 'American tourist' has never <BR>been typical. And I promote that thought to anyone who cares to read what I have to say about the subject on my website. <BR> <BR>That said, some tourists do stupid things, sometime. And, to be honest, I believe that happens more often with more Americans than Europeans. <BR> <BR>Europeans have not grown up with the notion that they own a whole continent ... whatever their country, they have to share the continent with others. Living side by side with other nationalities many Europeans have more practice at living in and dealing with different cultures than Americans. <BR> <BR>Let's get up to date on what we should expect in Europe. Tales our grandfathers told us about what they saw in Europe as GIs right after the war are no longer accurate. Europe has gotten over the bombings of civilian areas by the Allies. Their economies have recovered, and many Europeans enjoy a much higher standard of living, however measured, than the average American. <BR> <BR>Things may be different than they are here ... but I don't recall Moses bringing back tablets saying, for example, Thou Shalt Drive on the Right Side of the Road. <BR> <BR>Let's stop believing that all of American culture and circumstance is superior to anything in Europe. Conversely, whether European or American, don't believe that European culture is superior across the board. <BR> <BR>And for heaven's sake, stop stuffing your suitcases with toilet paper and bottled water whose source is a city water supply. <BR> <BR>Ed

Hi Frank, I've read this thread and found a bit of info missing. You will have to pay to use the 'loo' in Italy at most places, about 30 cents US, 500 lira to be exact. <BR> <BR>It is worthwhile. I've heard some tourists complain about paying, but have told them you haven't seen the 'loos' you don't have to pay for! It really is worth it to have a clean environment to do your business. <BR> <BR>The cleaners stand at the entrance and take your lira. Be sure to have change, they will give you change but only if they have it. This is their living, be nice to them. <BR> <BR>As for toilet paper, it is good to carry a little packet of kleenex just in case they're out of it. <BR> <BR>In the 'auto-stops' the toilets are in the basement.

I meant to mention the cafes have small bathrooms that you do not have to pay a cleaner for, but you should at least buy something in the cafe before asking where the 'loo' is. <BR> <BR>In Italy they are required by law to let anyone use the loo but, as a courtesy, it's best to buy something to negate any nasty looks from the owner you may get (or may not). <BR> <BR>I made my cappacino stops equate with the 'need'....

Where in Italy, other than the train station in Florence and at some Autogrills, but certainly not all, do you have to pay to use the toilet? I have lived here nearly 2 years and have traveled here for 15. The only place in recent memory that I have been required to pay is the above-mentioned train station. I am not questioning your statement, just curious about what I must be missing? Also, my observation is that toilets in restaurants, stores, Autogrills, etc. are generally better kept than American ones, especially those at service stations. Yuck. <BR>

Did not want to reply to this, but I could not let this pass. In Rome, where my cousin lives, she has a little map of all decent toilets that she may use. I am not making a judgement, just stating a fact....there are few and far between acceptable toilets in Rome(and she always carries a hand sanitizer and tissue packs) and there is always McPlumbing......oh I mean McDonald's!

Santa Chiara, you're right, you only pay at the Autogrills, and their like, anywhere where the establishment caters to tourists. <BR> <BR>That's why I added my additional post regarding cafes, and the courtesy of buying a coffee to offset the use of the washroom. I can't imagine the 'abuse' a bathroom would take if everyone simply traipsed through an establishment to use the loo. My opinion only, take it or leave it..

Santa Chiara: One would have to add the airport terminal to the list of pay toilets. But overall you're correct ... there are few pay toilets. Many do have an attendant ... thankfully as these facilities are generally kept sparkling. Alas, such used to be the case in the US many years ago but now mainly disappeared. <BR> <BR>As to relative cleanliness, again, you're right on. The only thing worse than the average American gas station toilet is an outhouse at a US state park filled with flies. <BR> <BR>I've not lived in Rome but have traveled there for something like 34 years. I've seen relatively few pay toilets, only slightly more than the US, even fewer dirty bathroom facilities ... far fewer than in the US. Ancient, cranky, tempermental, inadequately designed ... absolutely on occasion. But that doesn't make them dirty, unacceptable or 'not up to American standards'. <BR> <BR> <BR>Ed <BR>

<BR>I agree with ED, and will take this one step further, you all need to get out and travel to Asia/Africa. You will realize how strange and funny you sound.

I think we need to change Frank's original wording from "American Standards" to simply "clean" and and then this tread makes sense..

F. Y. I. Go into goeurope.about.com/travel/goeurope/libary/venice/aa980615.htm, alas Venice Public toilets. Still continue to run <BR>into the hole in the floor with footprints. Worse are the ones which <BR>are about 12 inches or less off the floor. Richard of La Grange Park, Il...

Ed, congratulations as one of the responses you have lumped together for your over the top criticism you have succeeded in offending me. <BR> <BR>1. I am not American <BR>2. I said nothing about taking paper from the US to Italy! (or for that matter bottled water or any of the other nonsenses you talked about - who on earth ever suggested any of this??) <BR> <BR>As a female having paper in a toilet is actually a desirable thing. Sure a lot of toilets in Italy are fine, but not all. What's the harm in having some tissues in your pocket for god sake? Now if we were talking about India I would have emphasised it more. <BR> <BR>And yes some toilets outside tourist sites do require you to pay.

Caitlin please read Eds comments and I think you will find that he has not said anything against carrying some paper in your handbag I always do that. <BR>Eds views IMHO are not criticism but sensible comments following a particularly patronising question which started this whole thread. And Toms comment on "John Wayne" toilet paper was really amusing but untrue at least where I have been in Europe. <BR>Frank I just hope the European "backwater" meets your "US standards" remember many Europeans visit this site and may find such comments offensive, others will just think them a sad reflection on the American view of the outside world. <BR>Thank you then Ed for your comments.

Let's review: <BR> <BR>Stuff your suitcase with rolls of toilet paper to Europe so that you'll have your preferred cushy brand: No. <BR> <BR>Stuff a wad of toilet paper in your purse in case of an unexpected shortage: Yes. <BR> <BR>Carry 24 bottles of water in your suitcase so that you'll always have your preferred brand: No. <BR> <BR>Buy a bottle of water in Europe and carry it around as you tour: Yes. <BR> <BR>So Ed is right. Again. <BR> <BR>By the way, I thought men did their business standing up and needed toilet paper only periodically. Are you fellas going soft on me?

Yes, Ed is right, but there's nicer ways of going about it. <BR> <BR>Frank expressed a concern which, through it's wording, showing a basic ignorance of European ways. I use the term ignorance as "unknowing", not in the newer definition of the word. <BR> <BR>I find when dealing with people who are ignorant of a place or culture it is best to explain to them, nicely, what they are to do and why they are to do it. Calmly, gently. Once people understand, they are able to be more sensitive to a culture or a place, and they in turn will teach others. Ed's comments were like a hammer on a gnat. Unnecessarily heavy handed, and as one knows you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.

Rose, why was it necessary to restate what I'd already said in this message re cafes? Ed, et al., Why turn carrying paper into a silly idea when people are merely being practical and not taking papare from HOME? Most people i know take the tissues from their hotel or buy them locally, except for a few packets taken from home for the plane flight. And who ever suggested taking water from the USA? (I suggest dehydrated water - just add sink water and it's fine.) Why has this scatological discussion attracted more participation than Qs re travel to interesting but remote places, or specialized cultural topics? What does it say about our culture? <BR> There are still some "Turkish" toilets in Italy -- even in one of the major museums in Florence (but at least it was clean). (I don't happen to remember which museum.) In my last two trips to Italy (l997, 2000), I do not remember seeing any pay toilets. They were either free or nonexistent, but they seemed to be more plentiful than in the USA. Compared to 35 years ago when there were filthy Turkish toilets and the toilet paper, if any was often just last week's newspaper, the toilets now are fine, certainly no worse than Ameican ones, although the plumbing design is more quirky and often less modern. It is often hard to figure out how to flush. It may be a foot pedal, a string from the ceiling, a button -- just push, press, pull. turn everything in sight until flushing occurs. If you're hiking or strolling in the countryside both women and men may be happier using the "bushes" (obviously not right near houses, gardens, crops, churches, cemeteries)instead of waiting for a public toilet or counting on a cafe or church with a toilet in the next town. So of course you should carry tissues or toilet paper or whatever paper you're comfortable carrying and using, plus zip lock bags to carry it out until you find an appropriate place to dispose of it. And just as in the USA, it is stupid to travel without such paper or to assume that every indoor public toilet will have nice paper, or any paper. Stopping at little shops for a granita, a cafe, a pastry, a cold drink, etc., and then asking to use the toilet is perfectly acceptable, and unlike in the USA, the shopkeepers always seem to cheerfully direct you to thier toilet (i.e., it's not employees-only). <BR> <BR> <BR>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <BR>

Hey Judy! <BR>Would your cousin be willing to share her map of "pit stops" in Rome? <BR>I for one, could certainly use it! <BR>nancy <BR>

WHOA, EVERYBODY! As usual, this has gotten way out of hand, w/sarcastic responses and interpretations of same. <BR>Haven't we forgotten the original point?Holly is 100% correct in suggesting that one should include a packet or two of Kleenex. It's smart, convenient, and you never know when....

I have found that the restrooms in Europe are in general much cleaner than in the US. My first reaction when I leved in Europe was one on non belief. After having traveled to most of the States, I changed my mind. So many of them are filthy here that I like to carry not only toilet paper, but also seat protectors. True, when I lived abroad (snooty enough), I used to always carry tp with me because 40 years ago it was truly John Wayne TP. That certainly has not been true the last few years that I've traveled. <BR>

Nancy, Well, I could e-mail her, you never know,,,,it may be top secret, however. If she gives it, I will share, how is that? This is important stuff, right? Judy

Frank, if you'd focused the question on the description of the paper and how to find "public conveniences," you wouldn't have come across as offensively as the "up to US standards" phrase did. There's a pasted posting of your question on the US forum, inserting "European standards" for your phrase, to make the point of how chauvinistic this came across. <BR> <BR>For perspective, I added my own problems with those "American" standards: <BR> "There are toilets in the US that are much more disgusting than most in Europe, at least based on what I've seen in ladies' rooms across the country. It seems to me that American women are getting piggier and piggier -- esp. about peeing on the seat, to be blunt. Some of the most revolting places I've been to have been on the service areas on the highways up the East Coast. Unflushed toilets, paper all over the floor, dirty seats, scuzzy sinks with only cold water. It's time to clean up your act, ladies. If you "hover" because the seat might be dirty, consider that you yourself are making the problem worse, esp. if you leave things worse than when you arrived. <BR> <BR> If you found the same thing in Europe, you would have horrible things to say about the Europeans' idea of public hygiene.

Judy, <BR>For me it is!! <BR>I appreciate the offer to share, if your cousin will. <BR>nancy <BR>

If this thread isn't indicative of the caliber of "poster" I don't know what is! Not one response to "Prague?" but 35 (and counting) regarding public toilets. WHEW!!

I enocurage everyone to go back and read the original question and all the posts. Not only did sometimes people not answer the question, they talked on how they were "offended." My parents taught me if I did not agree with a stranger, then I should not say anything and move on. In times where there are issues all around us that should really offend, we should leave simple comments alone and move on. This board with be more healthy if we all practiced a little control. For bathrooms anywhere in the world, if you have to go, you have to go. If you have paper, more power to you, if not, better luck next time. If you have to pay, it is better than suffering. I am just amazed at how people get "offended". I will be in Italy in 3 weeks and will report back my bathroom findings.

Tom: I don't mean to kick a dead horse here, but I do take offense when I make a simple suggestion like packing tissue for a trip, and someone like Ed then accuses me of thinking the world beyond the USA is third-world at best and tells me I'd be better off staying home because of my suggestion. It's okay that his wife puts hotel room toilet paper in her purse, but anyone who slips a few packs of those travel-size kleenex in their bag before leaving home ought to never leave the States? His suggestion that I disguise my identity and pretend I'm Canadian so nobody will think I'm an American, just shows that his pomposity is only exceeded by his ignorance.

Why are some of you European posters that are having a hissy fit about this thread now dragging this same thread over to harrass people at the US travel board on Fodor's? Isn't one arguement at a time over toilets enough for you???? Someone has an anal fixation but who drag it over to the US boards too?

Ok Ok Stevie <BR>You have proved again how well you can read. Can you now concentrate on your grammar and spelling please? <BR>Stevies Teacher

I could not pass by without a response. In 1984 we went to Europe on an independent driving tour and then the worst facilities were in Italy, Germany and France were not too bad as long as you had change. After two trips in 1997 and 1999(including Venice) I have to say that overall, European facilities are preferable. I say this because "generally" they offer more privacy, security and cleanliness. Yes there are the few, as there are all over the planet that are not, or that are out of paper. So you go prepared (tissue in the purse and always carry coin). We are about to go to OZ and NZ so I will be curious to compare. <BR> I believe Venice started charging due to the high level of tourism and the cost of waste treatment. I think this is commendable if it provides cleaner restrooms and cleaner cities. <BR> Regarding water, I too thought it was a little over board, until I spoke with my sister in law who has such a sensitive stomach that she would not enjoy traveling unless she took it. She may not have gotten sick but she would have stressed about it. Besides, she does not do independent travel but tours, otherwize who would want to carry all that weight. <BR>Happy, pleasant, healthy travels everyone. <BR>