Nothing to do with tipping, but regarding 'rude' questioning. As Canadians who moved to France, we know that other North Americans are interested to know why/how we did it. Canadian always want to know what we do about health insurance.

What really surprises me though is when people ask us what we do about taxes here - do we pay Canadian tax or French tax. Frankly, I don't discuss my tax situation with my friends, let alone someone I've just met. And it would never occur to me to ask. But a fair number of people do.

>I don't discuss my tax situation with my friends, let alone someone I've just met.<

I think that it should be noted that in the US politics and religion are forbidden topics. One can only say so much about the weather, and not everyone is interested in highschool football.

This sort of leaves, "What do you do?", "How much did your shoes cost?", "Do you swap wives?", etc as the few topics of interesting conversation.

((I))

"I think that it should be noted that in the US politics and religion are forbidden topics."

My experience is very different from that.

I find the recommendation to tip at all in France odd because i work in a tourist area for many years and primary clientele is French. From my experience and the wait staff/ hotel staff/ taxis/ etc....they do not tip at all regardless of service or amount of bill.

Turning tables in the States really annoys me. We were in Berkeley, California, a couple of years ago at a fairly high end restaurant. We were a large family party, perhaps ten in all, and were having a wonderful time catching up on our lives. Most of us had been in Europe that year, or the year before, and we fell into an European rhythm, completely oblivious to time, as we lingered over coffee, and the dregs of the wine. We had piled up a bill that still makes me wince.

We were stunned when the manger approached the table and frostily announced that since we were obviously finished ordering, they could use the table for a party that had been waiting. Would we finish up and leave?

Dead silence ---

My Brother in Law saved the day by saying, "Oh, sorry. I'll have a coke and an order of French fries, please." We got some dirty looks, but we stayed until every single fry was consumed. Slowly.

My French friends on both coasts laugh at us over tipping when by law it is the service complet

P.S. when I was at the Guinguette Fournaisse in Chatou for the first time. The waiter said tip was not included.
Later after the dinner we had a drink with the owner and I mentioned how surprised I was that service was not included. Hr said the waiter most likely didn't understand. I think we were
taken advandage by the waiter

The waiter understood very well: Naive tourist doesn't know that tip is included, so I'll ask for one. If I had been the owner, the waiter would be looking for a new job the next day.

"Naive tourist doesn't know that tip is included"

Tips are not included. Service is and 'service money" does not go into the waiter's pocket. Tips aka "pour boire" are optional.

The service charge does in effect go into the waiter's pocket, because it increases the house's take, and the house is required by law to pay its staff a proper wage, not a reduced wage that forces them to depend on extra largesse from customers. Tips perform that function in some other places, including the USA and, to a smaller degree, in the UK and Ireland.

Making a distinction between a service charge and a tip is a specious argument that is used to persuade the uninformed that they should pay more than the norm.

Sill the distinction exists. Everybody agrees that tipping in France is a matter of rounding up to the next € and is entirely optional. Leaving 50 cents or €1 is not paying much more than the norm and is a gesture of appreciation. Nothing more. It has nothing to do with the wages paid by the house.

In the context of your other posts in this thread, Pvoyageuse, I stick to my position that you are making a specious distinction.

And I'll stick to mine :-)) What is seen from the US or the UK as a specious distinction is not necessarily so in France.

Ah, but we Irish see things more clearly!

One thing that I was happy to see when I was involved in a small café was that the tips were not pocketed by the wait staff. Everything went into a communal coffee can and was divided among the staff once a week, including the cook and the person filling and unloading the dishwasher.

Ah, but we Irish see things more clearly!

Since Dallan Forgaill, I presume :-))

No, "everybody" does not agree that the bill should be rounded up. The service is included in the bill; there is nothing more to pay. You are forced to give a 15% "tip" when you pay the bill, so there is absolutely no obligation or sense in giving more.

Anthony

Pvoyageuse is referring to the "tip" - which many people (except you) believe is something "above & beyond" the "service". The menus in France say "service compris". I have never seen a "tip compris" on the menu. Pvoyageuse stated "Everybody agrees that tipping in France is a matter of rounding up to the next € and is entirely optional". I interpret this to mean that a tip on a meal is from 0 (optional) to "the next E".

BTW, Pvoyageuse is 100% French. She was born & raised in France, I believe that her parents were also born & raised in France, and her husband & son were born & raised in France. She is over 60, well educated & well traveled. She studied in the US for a while, and speaks English better than I do (which isn't saying much). She critiqued a book for me that contrasted American vs French customs, practices, educational system, health system, etc - so I believe that she is also very well "informed" about "things" in both France & the US. I have a tendency to value her comments about France more than I do most other people who might not have a similar background as hers.

Off to France tomorrow.

Stu Dudley

All French people are not alike. If some choose to give substantial tips twice in a row, that is their prerogative. There are probably some French people who enjoy paying the CSG, too, even though it's double taxation.

I don't see what waiters do that is worth 15% of the bill, much less an additional tip on top of that. The margins on food and drink in restaurants are extremely generous, so the whole idea of paying an extra 15% on top of an 80% gross margin is a bit strange. I'm sure that restaurant operators and employees rub their hands with glee when they see still more money on the table at the end of a meal, though.

Having been to Angelina's several times over the years I think the waiters there are used the Americans leaving large tips.That is one place you feel like it is exspected regardless.

I was unclear about the tipping process myself. We ate breakfast one morning at Breakfast in America. Since we had a young American waiter I figured I'd ask him about it. He told me that at Breakfast in America the tip was not included and a 15% tip was appropriate. Doing a little research later on, I beleive he was not telling us the truth. I don't plan to eat there again as a result.