Hi MP,

>is not the bill "service compris" (by law?) which implies that the 'standard' tip is already built in?<

One must recognize the difference between the 15% service charge, already included in the bill, and a "tip" which is a token of appreciation for good service - or, in the case of a 1 cent tip, a reproof for poor service.
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>If you tip so much, you ruin it for your co-travellers who know better,....<

Rich Americans throwing their money around have always been the problem for the rest of us visiting less civilized countries.

When my uncle was in Italy, about 1945, a good tip was an American cigarette. Now, it costs a small fortune for a Bellini at Harry's Bar.
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Hi Cath,

>...I'm not expected to tip the person who shows me to my seat in when we go to the theatre?<

When I was an usher in the late 50's, we often got a nickle for guiding people to their seats.
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>I sometimes tip 20% in San Francisco.<

Anyone who tips more than 15% is being taken. Anyone who tips less is being stingy.
(Unless you just leave a penny)

The idea of leaving a % of the bill is that the gratuity increases as prices rise. There is no need to also increase the percentage.
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Hey JG,

>...she "wanted to be able to show her face in here again".<

The barman tried to steal $30 and she is worried about what he thinks of her?


((I))

Hi bal,

>...the usual line on the receipt where you add the tip in North American restaurants was missing. So it was clear that a tip was not expected.<

Not quite right.

That line is missing because the EU court that decides such thing says that a "tip" added to the credit card belongs to the boss, not the server.

> My husband still left a euro or two on the table anyway.<

And was correct to do so.

((I))

Ira

We almost always tip more than 15% in San Francisco - sometimes as much as 20% in good restaurants where we dine frequently & know the owners and/or wait staff - and where we spend more than 2 hrs for dinner. Friends who we dine with do the same.

See the section titled restaurant tipping:

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel...ping-BR-1.html

Stu Dudley

You should all be congratulated for your generosity to the wait staff in the restaurants of North America.

Just do not do this in France where the chef is actually more important than is the person refilling your water glass.

Stu, in Belgium we always spend more than 2 hrs for dinner (or for a good lunch). I really don't see what this has to do with the percentage of the (eventual) tip?

Hey Ira,
In response to your query; indeed she was. She was perfectly lovely in every other way, but this I found so odd.

I've begun to get used to this attitude towards tipping being a right rather than a privilege on my numerous trips to Northern California each year though.

Another example for you, I caught a cab from SFO to the hotel I was staying at in San Jose. Having done this exact route a few times I knew the cost would be in the region of $120. This time it was one of the worst taxi rides of my life. The driver locked the wheels twice (on two separate occasions) on the freeway braking too late, weaved in and out of traffic, didn't wear a seatbelt but was mercifully silent throughout the journey.

When we reached the hotel, he muttered something about an additional "15% out of city fee" meaning the bill would be a round $150. I gave him the exact money, knowing that he was charging over the odds, yet he had the temerity to say "no tip?" I just looked at him, smiled and said "No. No tip." He smiled back and went on his way.

I still struggle to get over the fact that a large tip is always expected as opposed to having to be earned in some places. Maybe it's a NorCal thing.

>>Stu, in Belgium we always spend more than 2 hrs for dinner (or for a good lunch). I really don't see what this has to do with the percentage of the (eventual) tip?<<

In San Francisco, we have to "work" to extend a dinner here for more than 1 1/2 hrs. Often, if we are with people who don't want an aperitif nor an appetizer - we are "in & out" within 1 hr. When we are walking out the door, the restaurant is often already seating someone else at our table.

Most popular restaurants here "plan" on a table being occupied for about 1 1/2 hrs, and 4-5 turnovers a night. So - if we stay longer than 2 hrs, there will be fewer turnovers & the waiter will get fewer tips. I feel a little obligated to "make it up" to the waiter & pay a little extra for my "overtime". However, I have never felt pressured (groveling?) by the waiter to do this.

In France, I have to "work" to keep dinner UNDER 2 1/2 hrs.

Stu Dudley

@ Stu
<<we are "in & out" within 1 hr. When we are walking out the door, the restaurant is often already seating someone else at our table>>
Really? We never go to restaurants that do more than one service per evening. It is, d'ailleurs, not very common in the middle to upperclass restaurants to have more than one seating for dinner.
We, too, have to work to keep dinner under 2 1/2 hrs! We can easily sit for 4 hours when we do a full dinner from aperitif upto coffee, pousse café, more coffee, ...

Stu is correct about how important turnover seems to be, even in many of the nicest restaurants.

Jay_G, you rather hit the nail on the head when you described the attitude about tipping being a right rather than a privilege. That pervasive sense of entitlement seeps into many other areas of life here, particular among people under 40, despite the fact that it doesn't jive at all with the current state of the economy. It'll be interesting to see what happens with that attitude if and when California actually crumbles in upon itself.

Sorry - "particularly" among. . .

There are few, if any, restaurants in the SF Bay Area that only have one seating. Perhaps the French Laundry does - but at $270 per person for dinner (incl tip, but not tax) and wine prices starting around $100 per bottle, they don't need more than one seating.

Stu Dudley

Hello sap,
It's interesting you mention the 'sense of entitlement' in the under 40's in Northern California, because whilst never having spent enough time (at a single stretch) out in your neck of the woods to have noticed this, I've certainly been party to some other odd (in my opinion) behaviour, where what I thought were standard social conventions don't seem to apply.

A pretty standard conversation opener that I've been asked, by pretty much perfect strangers, is what do I drive and/or how much I earn? I found this so odd the first time I was asked, but it now happens so regularly that I use my stock response and make a mental note not to bother speaking to that person again.

However, it seems to be so pervasive (I like to make the most of the nightlife whenever I'm there) that I probably get asked it once a night on average if I'm out on the tiles and if I was to ignore all the people that asked it, I would have missed out on some bloody good nights out.

The obsession (and I don't think that's too strong a word) with money and status that I've experienced on my trips to NorCal have left a slightly bitter taste in my mouth. Having said that, I've also met some superb people who couldn't care less what I earn and are more interested in what I have to say.

Jay_G: Quite true, but it's even worse in SoCal where they add one's glam-factor to the mix. Still, you can't knock the natural beauty of the state once you are able to direct attention away from the more tacky members of our populace. To get back to the OP, that would be my "tip" when visiting the Golden State.

Be wary of waitstaff telling you that the "service is not included." We returned to a restaurant in St-Remy-de-Provence (ate there twice when we visited in 2008) and the waiter promptly told us when he presented the bill that the service was not included. No mention of this was made on their menu. Yes, he knew we were not French but Americans. We did not fall for this like we did in 2008 at the first two restaurants where we ate and tipped like we would in the USA.

<i>A pretty standard conversation opener that I've been asked, by pretty much perfect strangers, is what do I drive and/or how much I earn? </i>

I've lived in Northern California all my life, and I'm in that age bracket. I've never had anyone ask me those questions. Maybe I look too poor? Or just socialize in different places.

Rosiekins, more than in Paris, some of the tourist hotspots in the south of France are even more predatory for taking advantage of ignorant tourists.

I was born and have lived in Northern California all of my life and until a few years I lived my entire life in the SF Bay Area. I have never been asked what I earn or what I drive except for a few times when a friend needed to buy a new vehicle and inquired as to whether or not I was happy that I had purchased the vehicle that I owned. I had one aunt who had the annoying habit of asking what people paid for their purchases but even she never asked what someone earned. Strange experiences, Jay G.

Having said that I so wish restaurants here wouldn't make customers feel like they have a total of 90 minutes for their table, but that is the way it is which is why I don't usually enjoy dining out as I always have in Italy. Btw, I do tip 20% unless the service leaves a lot to be desired but that has seldom happened, thankfully.

In Australia, don't ask a grazier how many sheep they run, as one would not ask how much someone earns.

From an old trip repoprt, from a long-ago trip, April 1995 to be exact:

I talked with a grazier (nobody talks about farmers in that part of the world – one is either a grazier or pastoralist) in the pub. He'd been preparing for shearing, to start in a couple of days, getting the shed ready, yarding the first sheep, making sure that the shearing plant would perform. Getting ready for THE WOOL, he termed it. The annual cycle for sheep growers is from the Lambing to the Wool, over and over.

He had a team of New Zealanders coming to shear, an eight stand shed, but only six stands being used. “Killed a sheep this morning, so the cook would have something to be getting on with, but he'll have to butcher it himself. The meat house is in good shape – cleaned it out for them. I hope they've got a decent cook this year”, he said. Last year's cook had been “a nightmare – all sorts of fancy food, egg and bacon pie that he called quiche, and his bread had been like concrete”, he reported. “Almost lost the team”, he said, “but the cook the year before was a beaut. He cooked a hangi when the shed cut out, meat cooked on hot stones in a pit wrapped in green leaves. The Kiwis thought that was pretty special. Some cooks think they're running a cafe, when they need to know that food is just fuel for shearers”.

I ventured to display my ignorance, and asked him how many sheep they’d shear. One ought not do this, it is like asking how much a person earns a year, but I thought that I'd get away with it, being a city slicker. He said that they'd shear about ten thousand. “Y'know, three years ago we shore sixteen thousand. Lost about six thousand in the flood – they took me off the roof of the woolshed in a dinghy. I was a bit lucky, though, I'd been able to move the good stock to the higher ground, and saved the rams and best ewes. We're on the Warrego, and when she floods, she really floods. But the grazing is good on the river flats, but.”

I think it's the fact that I'm evidently not a local that prompts people to ask. My English accent and the way I dress (apparently wearing clothes that fit properly for a bloke of my age is a dead giveaway) mark me out for 'special' treatment.

I got chatting to a Brazilian guy in a bar in Los Gatos and he said that he was often asked the same things, however the fact that he was 'exotic' (his words) gave him more leeway, and people that otherwise wouldn't give him the time of day liked to have him in their circle of 'friends'.

Maybe people are just more inquisitive when they're faced with someone outside their usual frame of reference, but I must admit it's something I do revel in slightly and has possibly afforded more experiences than I otherwise might have had. Some have been bad, but mostly good and all memorable.

Every time I leave, I can't wait to go back. Only another four weeks to go...

Jay_G, that's interesting. I grew up in NoCal and I believe asking people about their salary violates general *American* etiquette. I've never had the question asked of me, and whenever I tell people that my (Asian immigrant) relatives thinking nothing of asking me about my salary all of my friends are appalled. I think you may be right; the fact that you seem foreign-born may inspire unusual curiosity. However, next time you come back, be assured that there's no reason you can't take their questioning as rude. Because it is.