|
bozama: Fight the power! The waiter is just another extension of the machine!
I mean, I thought I was cynical, but you seem to think the waiters are out to get you. I used to wait tables, and I never spat in anyone's food and never knew anyone else who did it. And I didn't wait tables at a fancy place, and we had a lot of customers who I would have liked to do it to. But, most waiters have the same professionalism as you will find in any worker, so why should you expect them to behave dramatically different from how they would act, were they working in an office? I'm going to say it again: If you don't like the rules - tough. Don't go out to eat. You may not like the norms, but they are still the norms, and you should abide by them. Trying to justify it by calculating the number of trips, or degree of phoniness or whatever seems like a lot of work to save $5. As for whether Americans rip off their waiters. Well, you would end up paying them anyway. If it wasn't through tips, it would be bundled into the price of the meal - trust me when I tell you that the restaurant biz is a low-margin, high risk business, and the owners are not eager to add additional costs. And the IRS would love nothing more than actual salaries, as tipped jobs are ripe territory for underreporting of wages. And finally, we will agree to disagree about what is tacky and annoying about dining out. Table-side service? If I wanted that sort of fluff, I would book a cruise. Though, I do have to confess that I like a proper caesar salad (not the anchovy-free garbage often offered these days), but they can assemble it in the kitchen. |
Hi NP,
>Twenty years ago I would have fallen off my chair if a waiter said,... What diff does it make what the chef has prepared? We are talking about waiters and the service. ................................... Hi nc, >So cashiers at Starbucks make more hourly wage than a waiter at a fine restaurant, eh? Of course not. Assume that a waiter at a mderate resto serves 6 tables of 4 in the course of an evening at $200 per table. A 15% tip grosses $180 - that's about $50k/yr. If 20% goes to other staff - that's still $40k. The Starbuck's cashier makes about $16k. ................................. Hi SM, >Are maids especially poorly paid there, or is this just a different view of politeness? The latter. ................................. Hi B, >Twenty years ago they did something called " table side service" ... About 40 years ago, 2 couples had dinner at a pleasant, little French resto. One of our number was a strictly steak and potatoes guy. His wife prevailed upon him to get the roast duck for two. The cart is wheeled out. Chafing dishes are lit. Knives are sharpened. The almost-cooked duck is presented. The waiter sets the duck down, and with a great flourishing of knife and fork begins to carve it. Duck leaps off cart into friend's lap. I don't think that he ever had duck again. ((I)) |
I love it when people write how tipping is wrong, it deprives the waiters, bartenders, hair dressers et al of a decent wage, and that their system is superior. Of course they are entitled to their opinions on this.
But you know something...most of these people in the service industry in the USA love this system..you know why. It's called the underground economy...only a small fraction of the tips they receive can be traced by the Internal Revenue Service and they only pay a small fraction of the taxes they should be paying...the IRS has made attempts to get some of its due money by using techniques such as allocated tips where the owners is required on the basis of credit card tips allocate tip income but the vast majority of cash tips simply disappears into the hands and pockets of the service providers never to be reported. And waiters, bartenders, those who bring drinks to the gambling tables, dealers (at casinos) do very well on tips thank you very much. I may not think it's a great system but at least there is still the option....if I don't like the service, I don't tip. And I still feel 15% is an adequate tip at a restaurant, 5 star or Denny's no matter what anybody else thinks. If the waiters doesn't like it, too bad. |
These postings are so educational.
From other threads, I have realised that Americans consider the whole cover charge, paying for bottled water, paying VAT thing a dreadful scam, and one that is a dreadful imposition on poor tourists. Now I learn that in the U.S. the waiting staff are barely paid at all, and rely on tips from patrons. That is why the posted prices at restaurants are meaningless, and diners have to put up with "I am Debbie and I am your server this evening" nonsense. The present exchange rate means that the U.S. will hope to be a tourist destination for Europeans. You may need to make some adjustments to your working practices if you wish to gain their custom. "If you don't like the rules - tough. Don't go out to eat" is not going to get you the business that restaurants, and their staff, will need to survive. Sauce for the goose. |
Is tipping a kind of bribery?
|
GSteed,
Yes and no. In US restaurants, except where service is already added (increasing in highly touristed areas), it is expected because it pays the servers' salaries. Tips are expected for all but the worst service. For many other services (hair, massage, concierge, etc), it is a reward for a job well done and as a thank you. Customary but not required as above. For others, it can be to get better or unusual service. Example: for a maitre-d, it can be a bribe for a better table or to "jump the queue". |
Hi G,
>Is tipping a kind of bribery? No different from working on commission. |
chartley..
It's really very simple...go to a restaurant, have a great time, and if you don't feel like tipping, don't do it. After all, most likely you will not be visiting that restaurant again and even so if you visit it the next time you travel, six months later for example, chances are the same waiters might not be there (maybe they will be) and will probably not remember that you "stiffed" them... I doubt extremely that the fact that tips are expected to waiters in restaurants has ever deterred somebody from visiting the USA. |
Just to correct one misconception: The comments above about staff spouting the phrase, "I am xxx and I will be your waitperson tonight" are exaggerated! This kind of chatter has been parodied for years and no staff member in a decent restaurant talks like this. In New York and, I suspect, in other large cities, they would be laughed out of the restaurant or subjected to a barrage of olive pits!
|
Actually, it's not a misconception. It's not a frequent phenomenon. But it happens even in high end restaurants in DC.
We were shown to our table by the host who introduced our waiter as "X who will be your waiter tonight". Also had servers in mid-priced places say "I'm X and I'll be serving your table tonight." This is as recently as 3 nights ago! |
I like the fact that customs change as you travel around the world. So for instance I would not eat in a restaurant that does not have a price list outside (I would distrust their organisational skills). But I am European so like to have open pricing the way I'm used to see it. I imagine that an American expects to see 20% extra on the bill and so he too "sees" the overall bill. The fun starts as you move around the world.
Does that mean that tourists will not come to USA, no, but it might mean they don't enjoy the experience and avoid coming again. I hope the American's don't change the way they charge for service but I admit it would be more attractive to me. |
Niblette: That underscores how customs vary even from DC to NYC. To me it sounds like a skit on SNL! (Saturday Night Live, a comedy show that often does parodies, for those not familiar with US tv)
That kind of introduction would be considered very cornball here..waitstaff should be unobtrusive! |
ekscrunchy,
It's funny but the ones who don't do that have tended to be the cheaper places (except diners) and the ethnic restaurants (French excepted), no matter how expensive (or cheap). Not too uncommon in the American food/seafood restaurants, even very very expensive ones. |
I think this is going to be my last post on this thread. xyz, it's nice that you can be so cavalier as to say, "if you don't feel like tipping, don't do it." You are talking about people's LIVELIHOOD. How would you feel if your boss said "yeah you did a good job, but I just don't feel like paying you your full salary this week.?" Unless the service is deficient, by refusing to tip, that's exactly what you're doing. As explained by me and several others, the minimum wage for waitstaff in the U.S. is not enough to live on; they expect and depend upon tips, assuming the service provided is good. That's the way the system is set up. And I think you are incorrect about the underground economy - any reputable restaurant will be pretty strict about the required reporting, and would notice any significant discrepancies. Plus, now many/most tips now are just left by adding them on to a credit card charge rather than in cash, so the restaurant already has a record of them.
chartley, Yes, you're right, we need to change our entire federal wage payment system for restaurant workers in order to gain the business of overseas visitors. I will call the Department of Labor and tell them they should get right on that. LOL. When I travel I change my behavior to adapt to the norms of the location I'm visiting - I don't call something nonsense just because its not exactly the way things are done at home. I will end with a story my future BIL, the waiter, told me. He is a great waiter, very personable, and consistently makes above average tips. One night, he had an older woman, dining alone, who left him a 50 cent tip on about a $50 bill. Not only that, but she specifically called him over to tell him all the things that he had done wrong to merit this low tip. Ok, maybe, if he'd provided horrible service. But her list of transgressions were things like "when I asked for lemon with my water, you only brought me two slices, and you should have brought four," "I don't like ice in my water" (she had not mentioned this before, as ice-free water would have been brought if she had), "the steak I ordered was too expensive for what it is," and "your restaurant is too loud." At the end of this 10 minute lecture, she tried to hand him the 50 cents as if she was doing him a favor. He told her, very politely, that it sounded like she needed it more than he did and refused to accept it. Ask yourself - do you really begrudge that 15-20% enough to want to be that miserly old lady? |
<i>The present exchange rate means that the U.S. will hope to be a tourist destination for Europeans. You may need to make some adjustments to your working practices if you wish to gain their custom. "If you don't like the rules - tough. Don't go out to eat" is not going to get you the business that restaurants, and their staff, will need to survive.</i>
boy this thread has taken a cynical turn... and really, we Americans can not like the bottled water and bread cover charge thing as much as we want, but no European city is going to change their dining system for us, so why would our whole restaurant system change for visiting flush Europeans? Talk about egocentric! Sheesh... And frankly, is it the job of Fodorites reading this to worry about the future of American restaurants if they don't seduce the foreigners? I for one am pretty sure most will survive with the current system in place. Okay, I know the dollar is weak and lots of people just think the US has gone to hell in a handbag, but folks, it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings. gruezi |
Hi Ira,
Just to clarify.... I was asking to make sure I understood the base HOURLY wage difference between a waiter at a fine restaurant and a cashier at Starbucks, not their actual take home wage. Of course, the high end waiters make a whole lot more money than a Starbucks cashier or the grocery clerk but it was news to me that their minimum wage (if no one tipped) is a separate and lower minimum wage than everyone else. $2.13/hr. |
...and while I was properly admonished..I wasn't advocating nobody tip waiters...rather I was sort of responding to the idiotic statement that foreigners will be less likely to visit the USA because they are expected to tip waiters but the poster is right...this is an integral part of their wages and that's just the way it is.
However, I will not retract my statement about the underground economy...the only thing we can differ about is to the extent....does hig22 think that all people in the service industry report all their cash tips to their employers as required by law??? And that the employers really gives a damn...as a matter of fact, the mployers, as I understand it and I can be corrected on this, is required to match withheld FICA and medicare taxes on the reported cash tips....he is required to allocate tips on the basis of credit card receipts...am I correct in that??? It is for that reason, BTW, that I always tip, at least in the restaurants, on a credit card to make sure the tip is properly recorded and properly taxed. |
travelgourmet,,
First, my response was in regards to the poster who tried to claim the increase in PERCENTAGE of tips expected was because SERVICE was better and more involved now then twenty years ago, which is bull crap. Its not. Second I was a dining room supervisor in a nice hotel restaurant for years, and yes at one point even waited on a few tables, so please stop with the " I waited tables in college so I know all about waiting tables " . Third, I have ( if anyone actaully reads previous posts rather then jumps into threads without an oar to row their boat) never said, " don't tip" and I have also clarified that I personally do not penalize waiters for bad food, or even slow service, IF I see their service level is at the best it can be in circumstances. I'm not about ripping off the "poor waiters." It is the American system of public subsidized wages for waiters that is stupid. No other country does this, a seperate minimum wage just for food servers,, so the public can then support the waiters ?? And don't load on about how costs are built in,, a meal is the same price in Canada as States,, I have eaten out in both countries and the only big difference is the amount some of you seem to think you need to tip. The new push I see is as much as 25 % .. that is just plain wrong. 15 % is enough ,, 20% would be for absolutely OUTSTANDING service, and 5-10% for careless or poor service. If a servier is expected to collect their "livelyhood" off a client, then they had better not try half assed service and expectme to just give them 15 % ,, I don't teach my kids to be lazy or stupid and the world will support them, so I wouldn't be tipping a crappy waiter more then 10% either. And , back to facts here, this is a Europe board, so " when in Rome" dang Americans can stop overtipping based on their system and making service people in that economy expect all english speaking tourist to tip big!! |
bozama wrote: "... dang Americans can stop overtipping based on their system and making service people in that economy expect all english speaking tourist to tip big!!"
I'm on a one-man mission to remedy any such impressions! |
I have read every message in this thread. Waterboarding seems like light recreation in comparison.
Enough!!! |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:16 AM. |