I'm surprised to hear that in some parts of the U.S. a waiter's minimum wage is different from that of a non-food-service worker. That's not true in California. Our labor code sets a single minimum wage and it applies to everyone who works an hourly job. Tips can't be used to offset it.

I agree with a lot of what you said, Bozama. I have been a "maitre d'" in a restaurant, as well as server (most people seem to work in that industry at some time), and I think it is also a bunch of doo-doo that service is better now and more difficult. If anything, I think it's the opposite. Who knows how this idea started about the 20%, but a lot of people just swallow things people tell them -- probably some push by the restaurant industry. The idea of leaving tips on counters for cashiers, basically (like at Starbucks) is really bizarre, also, who tips them? Make as much sense to tip cashiers in super markets or drug stores.

However, there do appear to be some misunderstandings, even among Americans, about wages of serving staff. It is determined by state, there is no national min. wage of $2.13 for waiters. Some states actually do NOT allow them to be paid less than other jobs, they have the same min wage (eg, California, Alaska, and a few others). If there is an allowable minimum below the standard, the state sets it and they also set which jobs it applies to by thresholds. It is not just waiters, necessarily, but any occupation the state sets the standard for as a "tipped profession".

$2.13 as min wage for a tipped profession is very low, and only occurs in a few states.

This is the table by state regarding the min wage for serving staff and some other things about this issue:

http://www.dol.gov/esa/programs/whd/state/tipped.htm

Thanks Alan. I keep trying to clarify this point because it is an extremely important one to me. I asked at my workplace yesterday and one of my coworkers said that here in California, her son did earn less than the standard minimum wage and that it IS different minimum wage than everyone else. I think that is so wrong. They should get at least the same minimum wage and tips should be supplemental.

Very interesting article: freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/the-racial-tipping-point/?hp

Christina,
As the page from the DOL's website that you linked to clearly shows, there is, indeed, a federal minimum wage for waiters/tipped employees, which is $2.13/hour. States are free to set minimum wage rates above that, as they are free to provide greater protections than federal law in a number of different areas. According to the DOL page, there are only 7 states in which the minimum wage is the same for both tipped and non-tipped employees.

Christina,

You must have posted at the same time I did. I did not see your post till now. So, do I read that correctly that only New Mexico really has the $2.13/hr as the true wage for waiters? I'll be sure to tip well there!

Been a waitress in CA on and off for quite a few years now. The DOL chart is correct. CA does require the same minimum wage for servers as for any other job.

Minimum wage for waiters in Florida is $3.38 as opposed to the $6.40 minimum otherwise.

Hi NC,

>it was news to me that their minimum wage (if no one tipped) is a separate and lower minimum wage than everyone else. $2.13/hr.

Yup. Certain labor categories are exempted from the minimum wage.

An interesting sidenote: Starbucks has been ordered to apy $100M to its workers because they were taking money from the tip pool to provide bonuses to the store management.

> her son did earn less than the standard minimum wage and that it IS different minimum wage than everyone else. I think that is so wrong. They should get at least the same minimum wage and tips should be supplemental.

Why should one group of people get MW + tips, while others get only MW?

If I work as a shop clerk, shouldn't I get tips too?
..................................
Hi C,

> about wages of serving staff. It is determined by state, there is no national min. wage ... for waiters.

Yes, there is.
See www.opm.gov/oca/wage/minwage.asp

States may require higher MW and may not permit tip offsets, but they don't have to.

((I))

Ira,

I agree with the disparity. I think everyone should earn the minimum wage and not be exposed to vulnerabilities. IF that were the case, I do agree that shop clerks and anyone else living on minimum wage should also be or not be tipped. It should depend on the excellence of service and generosity of the customer. Basically, our tipping system is grossly incomprehensible to me as it is. Why SHOULD I tip the Starbucks cashier and not the grocery store cashier? That being said, in states where waiters DO earn a normal minimum wage like everyone else, why should I tip them but not the cashier who earns the same amount of money. One could argue that the cashier may be working harder in most stores where there is very little idle time with a constant stream of customers. I do tip generously but in philosophy, I greatly prefer the method in other countries where people are paid a "decent" wage and there is minimal to no tipping. Tipping in many instances has gotten out of hand.....see the thread on whether one should tip the business owner of a salon where you get your hair done. Many there describe paying 150-200 for the hair service and then tipping the stylist AND the salon owner. Yikes, all I could say there was that I am glad I cut my own hair.

I was recently short changed by a young woman in a coffee bar. In fact she gave me no change at all although it was obvious from the till what she should have given me.
When I pointed it out to her, she sulkily gave me my change out of the staff tips jar.
The irony is that I was going to put that amount, plus a little extra in said tips jar.
As it was, I put nothing.

Tipping, or rather those who wish to be tipped, is getting out of control in the US. Just about everywhere I go there is a "tips" cup or jar out - coffee places, donut, fast food restaurant, even in a self-service cafeteria!

Josser, I've been asked by a cashier if I wanted my change! However, paying by CC avoids the issue.

Alright, what about tipping when you order carryout? I read somewhere that some tip is expected for that as well.

Please ! Please! Please ! Please !

After another 100 odd post thread- could someone explain to this thicko in the UK - Why when I dine in the US am I expected to part employ the waiting staff.

Why don't the restaurant owners meet their responsibilities and pay their staff a decent wage.

They should (like any other busines owner) have control over the business and take huge rewards when times are good. When times are bad they do not. Why expect someone who is clearly an employee of the business to effectively subcontract?

To many visitors to the US, the pricing of menus dining is a total rip off - when you add the expected tip of at least 15% - 25% to the again undisclosed local sales tax the result in nearly a 40% increase in the final bill.

In the UK - in the main what you see on the menu is what you generally pay. If the service is good you will leave a gratuity not a tip.

Seems a far clearly, fairer system for all involved. Other than of course the employer who has to take more risk (which they should of course do).

I'll try to explain...

It's not a case of fair or better or worse or whatever...

It's the way the service industry developed....like it or not....

Also most of the employees are not terribly unhappy about the system...as I noted but somebody claimed I was wrong and I am not...a lot of tipping is cash and carry and although the taxing authority, the IRS (Internal Revenue Service) over the years has made attempts to be able to develop systems to figure out who gets what...the system still relies on the honesty of the tippees to report all their tip income which I doubt extremely is done...the only argument one can possibly have is to what extent...let's get some waiters, hairdressers or anybody else who works with tips on this anonymous bulletin board and have them state how much of their cash tip income they report, as required by law, to their employers so the proper taxes can be withheld and you will get some idea...

You are not subsidizing employers who are cheap..this is the system here (I don't particularly like it either)...but then again in every walk of life, in every way things are done differently...for example, and it has nothing to do with tipping, I think it is ludicrous that London Underground charges differently depending on the length of a tube ride...it means a whole complicated system has to be used and people are slowed up exiting by having to insert their tickets or having their oyster cards read again...in NY a trip from the top of the Bronx to the tip of Coney Island, every bit as long as a trip from central London to Heathrow costs one fare...no need to do anything on exiting...clearly that is more efficient..is it better??...who knows but that's the system we have here in NY...in the USA you pay both to make and receive calls on a cell (mobile) phone...in much of the rest of the world only the caller pays...is it better?...who knows but that's the way we do it here...

Again while I don't like the system particularly, I always get a kick out of people who claim their system is better...at least here if the service stinks, you have the option of stiffing the waiter...you don't have to pay for lousy service as intimidated you might feel after reading the thread......

As I said, I try to learn the tipping customs of each country, I don't complain about it...when in Rome I try to do as Romans do....that's it...that's the way it is.

What exactly do you mean by rounding? To the next euro? Or 5?

No you don't tip when you take away (carry out)...however you do tip the delivery boy, girl, man, woman or whatever on his or her bike or car or whatever when home delivery is involved......at least that's the way I do it.

xyz123

are you saying that the whole system grew from the objective of under-declaring income for IRS purposes.

I still think the tip jar on the counter at 7-11 is the WORST I've seen!

markrosy..

It is certainly a factor....some waiters, bartenders et al in very luxurious places such as Vegas cane easily make a six figure salary and only report a small portion of it and it does happen no matter how much other here might say it doesn't...I don't know if it's the only factor but it is a significant factor...in addition the employers are happy as it cuts down on certain things they have to pay for employees based on their salaries such as what is called FICA (a social security type tax), medicare...state unemployment...state disability....all these taxes are based on wages which would include tip income that is properly reported..not tip income that disappears into the underground economy.

In this type of thing, everybody wins except the IRS...