Tinkering with Umbria
 

Just started tinkering with Umbria for some time in June 2013.

As we did for our recent Tuscany and Provence trips, I expect we won't rent a car and depend on good planning using trains and buses.

My first thoughts would be to spend a few days in Rome (been there twice before - last time about 10 years ago) and do some daytrips (Orvieto, Spoleto) from Rome.

Then possibly move to Perugia as a base for the rest of Umbria.

Assisi, Spello, Gubbio, Cortona (I know it's. . .), Todi and more to be determined.

The hope is that Perugia will not only be convenient for public transportation but also keep us occupied when not on daytrips or after returning from a daytrip.

When we based in Florence we planned days without a daytrip. However, when we based in Avignon we didn't plan on any complete days there. Worked out well.

What I'm really looking for is advice on a base.

Depending on how plane booking works out (if we return from milan) we might include a daytrip to Verona.

I keep thinking of Milan as a drab city. Is it that or worthy of a day or so?

Perugia is an exciting city and makes a good base for visiting Umbria. That said, I would never consider exploring Umbria without a car, as the bulk of its charms lies in the small villages and towns that are difficult or impossible to access by train. If all you want to do is a tour of the cities, fine, but you'll miss out on what makes Umbria the gorgeous venue that it is.

I agree. I've been in Umbria six or eight times and would never be without a car. BTW, if you want some dining recs click on my "DRJ". Buon viaggio!

I think when you get to looking at train schedules, you'll see that it doesn't quite make sense to daytrip to Spoleto from Rome if you are later basing in Perugia, and that from a base in Perugia, Cortona may be a more doable day trip from Rome than Perugia. Depending on how early you typically get up in the morning and how much you want to do in Cortona and Orvieto, you might consider going to Cortona by train from Rome, having lunch there, and then seeing Orvieto on your way back to Rome.

It's not hard to drive in Umbria, but I could happily be there without a car, because trains and buses do in fact go to many of Umbria's small, charming towns. A couple of the towns popular with tourists are not easily reached by bus (Spello is one such town, I think), but there are other lesser known ones that have considerable charm that can be reached by bus from Perugia.

There have been trip reports on Fodor's from well-seasoned Umbria lovers who have based in Perugia and went everywhere using public transportation. If I can dig one up, I'll post a link to it for you in this thread.

I am a huge fan of Perugia, but it is a steep town with lots of stairs (and a few escalators).

Here:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...sportation.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...in-and-bus.cfm

I like people who can imagine a different way of travel and are willing to try it.

We met a guy at lunch in Spello, who was staying near Lake Trasimino without a car. When he wanted to go places not on the train or bus line, he just got a driver for the day, or half-day (how he got to Spello). He said he usually rented cars, but this trip decided to try it without. He said he had been to the region previously, so there weren't and "MUST" sees anymore, and he enjoyed the more leisurely pace, only getting to one or two spots per day (or none if he wanted to just enjoy the lake.) I don't recall which town he stayed in, but I imagine you could find potential locations with a little research.

Drj, I can't find your restaurant recs. could you post the thread?

Rather than visiting Spoleto as a day trip from Rome it may make sense to visit Rome, then move to Spoleto for a few days to visit that area of Umbria and then move to Perugia.

I'm with StCirq and DRJ on this one regarding the advisability of touring Umbria with a car. We based in Spello and did it with a car a few years ago. It was great.

But there are at least 2 sides to the issue. On the one hand, having a car allows the freedom to move around at your whim, at your own pace, going wherever and whenever you want. And as long as you don't attempt to drive within a city like Perugia (which I foolishly tried - I've related that story on Fodor's a number of times) or even inside the small towns, it is easy. The roads are good, well-marked, and finding your way from town to town is pretty painless. You can park at one of the many lots ringing the outer perimeter of all the towns, then walk around.

However, if you like to have a cold beer, or a glass of wine (or maybe a few), you can't drive. The last thing you should risk is drinking and driving in a strange area, where the laws against such things are much less tolerant than in the US, and the penalties can be very severe.

I suppose my comments above could apply to pretty much any European country destination. Having multiple drivers, at least one of which isn't imbibing, would always be an advantage.

Myer: I enter too much stuff. I think you'll have to go back a year or two since I haven't posted my favorites for that long. Sorry.

I've explored Umbria while basing in Perugia and using trains and buses. I was able to visit all of the towns you mention (including Cortona) quite easily and did not feel like I was spending too much time in transport or finding myself confused with logistics. It was pretty easy. I was also able to do a wonderful day trip to Lake Trasimino from Perugia using the train and then the public boat on the lake. If you have a good guidebook or two containing public transportation advice along with access to the internet, you should be fine without a car.

That said, I have also explored Umbria using a car and found it much more rewarding (for the reasons that others have pointed out) then using public transportation. But, if you don't want to rent a car, then do base in Perugia and enjoy- you will be very happy. I recommend at least 7-10 days.

I forgot to add-

I have found that getting around using public transportation in Umbria is easier and more rewarding that using public transportation to explore Tuscany and Provence. So, you should have a wonderful trip!

Thanks.

Some very good info to work with.

<<I like people who can imagine a different way of travel and are willing to try it.>>

I agree with that. However you want to travel is fine with me. But when you are talking about an area so rich in offerings as Umbria, you have to admit that using public transport is going to limit you....severely...IF what you want to get out of the area is off-the-charts experiences.

I spent 8 weeks in Umbria, between Paciano and Panicale, in 2008. If I hadn't had a car I would never have gone to remote areas FAR away from the "normal venues," spa towns and tiny villages, co-ops and really small local festivals, insanely small villages with incredibly good restaurants where you could get local cuisine for a song. Local transportation would not have gotten me to the wonderful dual-piano concert at the castle in Maggiore on Lago Trasimeno. It wouldn't have gotten me to the Saturday night concerts in Panicale. It wouldn't have gotten me to the World Cup celebration/feast in Paciano. It wouldn't have gotten me to any hundreds of moments of wonderfulness in tiny towns all over Umbria that made my trip so incredibly memorable and unique.

OK, so a private guide can maybe provide some of these experiences. I think the expense of that is not worth it. I'm an explorer - I want to find it out on my own, not pay for it If you just want to visit the main cities, that's fine. But I still think even a private driver isn't going to replace a car and good research into what's available for you to see and do.

Taking public transportation in Umbria is NOT going "severely" limit anybody with even a minor interest in Italian art or history, nor will it limit severely people who want to visit small towns and enjoy the Umbrian scenery and hikes. Not only is Perugia a multi-day destination in itself for art and history, it is possible to use the trains to reach Assisi, Gubbio, Spoleto and Orvieto, plus the historic sites in Lago di Trasimeno. In addition, buses from Perugia go to many, many small untouristed towns of considerable charm, and to nature walks and hikes.

I personally could car less about spas and festivals and football.

But is is absolutely misleading to tell someone who has never been to Umbria that if they don't rent a car they will miss the richness of Umbria or be confined to cities. That is BS.

Have you ever used public transportation in Umbria? What basis do you have for comparison? I clicked on your name and don't see any trip report for Umbria. Do you have a link? How long has it been since you were there?


Could you post a link to a trip

Sorry, hit the button to soon. Missing word is "report."

By the way, Umbria has music concerts and music venues throughout the region. There aren't only in the two places you went.

You really don't know what you are talking about. You just won't admit it.

As mentioned above, Spoleto doesn't make sense as a day trip from Rome since it's much closer to Perugia. Cortona isn't a good stop on the way either as the train station isn't actually in Cortona and there is no luggage storage.

Here's a map of the local FCU train line.
http://www.umbriamobilita.it/it/orar...io-ferroviario

Foligno seems to have a lot of transportation to the smaller towns also. Might be smaller than you want for a base.

All,

I rechecked the train schedule and Spolletto is a somewhat ride from Perugia (1:00) versus Rome (1:30 app).

However, Terontola-Cortona is a much shorter train ride from Perugia (:40 app) than Rome (2:00 app).

I know about the bus from Terontola. Two years ago we were in Tuscany based in Florence and used trains and busses. We wento to Cortona then. I only added Cortona as a possible destination. Depends what we decide.

A funny thing happened on the way to Cortona. The train stopped in Terontola but the door wouldn't open. So we got off at the next stop and ended up with a slightly longer bus ride up to Cortona. A very nice though tourist-full town.

I am still reviewing above.

One thing I would be very interested in finding out.

Wherever I read the same few towns keep popping up. However, posts keep mentioning other non-touristed though charming towns.

I would be interested in the names of a few.

Our interests lie less in museums and more in wandering around charming towns. However, what we'd like to avoid is spending time in towns that have an abandodned feel. While crowds are a hassle, I would prefer them to a town in which we are the only ones there.

That happened to us in Arezzo and it's too bad. Maybe it was because the main square (where the movie was shot) was closed off and under reconstruction. It did have the making of a very cute town.

<I would be interested in a few charming towns>

The OP from what I read above, is not asking for advice about whether to use public transit or not. If Myer has seen Tuscany and Umbria without a car, I'm sure Myer can handle Umbria without a car.

Myer, after our trip in September, I will post info on any charming towns we find.

Too bad about your experience in Arezzo, makes me feel better about having to leave it out til next time.

Interesting--zeppole is back.

Myer has seen <Tuscany and Provence> without a car....

Myer, if you click on my name, you can find a TR about Perugia and Rome by car and bus. We had stayed in Spoleto as a base for Orvieto, Assisi and Spello and found train travel from there easy easy easy.

We bussed and trained from our wonderful Perugia base but hired a car for 2 hill towns. Hope my TR helps.

As for Milan, hub and I trained there from Verona one time and are very happy to have seen the Duomo (walk on roof), La Scala museum, "Last Supper", Galleria, and another museum whose name I've lost to old age. We lucked into a last-minute cancellation for "Last Supper"--in March, we thought we could take a chance.

If you have any interest in ceramics, Deruta (upper part of the town) has an interesting museum.

ps-The Spoleto trip above doesn't have a TR.

TDudete,
We sort of did the same in Provence this past June.

Bus and Train everywhere except we too a minivan tour to a couple of hill towns.

Thanks. I will check out you trip reports this weekend.

<interesting- Zeppole is back>

Iris, hope you are not referring to me, if I sounded harsh I didn't mean to, and apologize.
Have to remember to stay out of these 'I'm right your wrong' scenarios.

Myer,

Do you know the Bella Umbria website? If you use the "Discover Umbria menu", you can see read about a lot of historic towns seldom if ever mentioned in guidebooks or on message boards

http://www.bellaumbria.net/en/

Rest assured that if Italy wins a world cup or some other soccer championship, it won't matter where you are in Umbria. You'll be in a thrilling place. If classical pianists are playing in one town in Umbria, you can be pretty sure (if they are any good) they will also be booked into Perugia, or something of equal quality will be easy to reach . If you need a facial -- well, what can I say? Rent a car.

There are a couple of large advantages to not renting a car in Umbria that no one has mentioned. Many people who try to drive into Perugia get so stressed out and so lost, they have a brief, unhappy visit and end up thinking (and telling other people) that Perugia "isn't worth it."

The other is to experience Umbria as so many of the everyday locals do, and to join the less-isolated and more public side of Italian life, which is still so very strong. Sure Italians love cars -- maybe even more than Americans do - but Italy is still very much a publicly shared space, and being all the time touring in a private vehicle misses the "richness" of that.

The beguiling thing about Italy is that everyone who goes finds a moment (and even many moments) where one says to oneself or to one's travel partner: "We found the perfect spot. It just doesn't get any better than this." The funny thing is, there are two people sitting in the next hill town saying the same thing, or sitting in a cafe in Perugia, or talking with Italian teenagers proud of their English, or being led by the hand by an Italian grandmother to the bus stop you need. The delusion is to think that all this happened only to you, due to your careful travel planning.

matera,

Thanks for the web site.

We've been to Italy at least half a dozen times before but never to Umbria.

We had been to Florence twice before our trip to Tuscany two years ago but on previous trips didn't focus on a smaller (?) area. Now we're starting to do that.

As we get older with more aches and pains we're trying to use a base and daytrip without our luggage more.

sundried; Absolutely not referring to you.

Iris. :)

Clever, Iris, I think you are right. Good!

Yup, unmistakable tone. School's about to begin. Let the lectures commence!

Myer, I've started a TR with Spoleto. Turin was our first base so am going in order, fyi.

Funny. I was just wondering what ever happened to Zeppole.

>>>While crowds are a hassle, I would prefer them to a town in which we are the only ones there.<<<

You might find you are the only ones in many of the smaller towns. The last time I was there (early Sept. 2010) everything was quite deserted in towns such as Montefalco, Trevi, Bevagna, Deruta and Spello.

kybourbon,

I wonder why these towns would be deserted? Is it because they're just not popular?

Maybe some other reason? Not many tourists to the area? Many places to visit so none will have many people?

On recent trips we found St Remy (provence) during lunch break had an abandoned feel.

Lucca in Tuscany, while not abandoned had very few tourists when we were there.

Also Arezzo seemed to have few tourists.

However, places like Siena, San Gimignano, Arles, Aix seemed to have many tourists.

Myer, I believe it's because most people don't have the money or the time to visit them all. For many, a trip to Europe is a one-time trip of their lifetime. How lucky are we Fodorites who've been able to return to "putter" and to savor less-viewed but incredible places.

In May I was in the same towns kybourbon mentioned and they
were still empty - Bevagna during lunchtime was totally
abandoned.

TDudette,

I guess we are quite fortunate.

Hmmm...starting to feel slightly disappointed in my upcoming 3 nights in Spello this October with a car driving from one deserted/abandoned town to another.