Thinking of Flying from Frankfurt to Amsterdam
 

The original plan was to train from Mainz to Amsterdam.

I'm just trying to find out if flying might be a better idea. Or not.

How far in advance of the flight would we have to be at Frankfurt Airport.

How long does it take to get from Schiphol Airport to Amsterdam Centraal station.

Interesting.

I just called Lufthansa and they said 3 hours.

KLM wasn't sure but thought it was 2 hours.

Kind of souring on that idea.

Planes can be late - much more so than trains. collecting bags takes time.

Train takes what about 4.5 hours from Mainz to Amsterdam (change at Frankfurt Flughafen for high-speed train to Amsterdam. Book well in advance and fares of 39 euros each. With flying you still have to pay for train to airport and from Schiphol to Amsterdam C.S.

4.5 hours city center to city center is about as quick as flying all in all and you see the nice countryside in between - not that scenic but to an American interesting. Book at www.bahn.de/en - German Railways site - www.seat61.com has lots on booking your own tickets online -general train info BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com.

Talk about waffling. My wife is not an early person. If we flew we'd probably take a 12:40 flight. So we wouldn't get to Amsterdam any earlier than if we took an 8:20 train from Mainz, change in Cologne and arrive around 1:30.

I figure if we're sitting on a train for 5 hours we might as well sit in 1st class.

OK. So for now assuming it's the train and 1st class.

I don't see a luggage area in the cars.

We will be travelling with a 25" suitcase each and a carry-on bag. Any idea where the luggage goes? Overhead? lying down, on end behind seat? other?

>>> I'm just trying to find out if flying might be a better idea. Or not.
This depends on what you mean by "better." If cost is the only criterion, you just need to compare the prices.
If the travel time is the concern, you need to actually compute travel time based on when you are traveling. The trip duration is not a single number. It is a range of numbers depending on when you are leaving.
If you try to do this after 8pm, train trips require very fragmented itineraries. A train would get you to Amsterdam Centraal. However, if there is a delay and you missed a connection, you have to figure out how to continue your trip. Flights between FRA and AMS are mostly non-stop.

>>> I just called Lufthansa and they said 3 hours.
>>> KLM wasn't sure but thought it was 2 hours.
These are one-size-fit-all answer. Always correct yet useless.It depends on when you are leaving and the terminal used by the flight.
I have departed from FRA many time. When it was a 6am depature, it didn't take even half an hour to get to the deaprture lounge. When it was mid morning, one really bad time it took more than one hour with long queues everywhere. It is also quick late in the evening.

However, if there is a delay and you missed a connection, you have to figure out how to continue your trip.>

The only change is at the nearby airport and trains go all the time from Mainz - just take an earlier train to airport. There are overhead luggage racks and space under seats - and places for large items at entrances to train car. There are no luggage cars for passengers to use.

I see you decided on a train route.
>>> We will be travelling with a 25" suitcase each and a carry-on bag. Any idea where the luggage goes? Overhead? lying down, on end behind seat? other?
This is an IC to ICE connection.
I don't know the type of IC carriage they use on this. If this is an open carriage, try to find seats at the ends of each carriage. If it is an older compartment type, you need to drag them into your compartment. Kind of tough if all seats are occupied. On ICE, there are dedicated luggage area at the ends. However, one time, I got stuck in the same 1st class carriage as a tour group each carrying a 26" and a carry-on. They overflew luggage area and all the nooks and crannies between the seat. The only space availabe to us were the overhead racks suitable for carry-on size luggages only.

From Man in Seat 61 - this is apparently the train used between Frankfurt and Amsterdam. There are places near the entrance where you can leave your bag and also racks above the seats for smaller bags.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mtfynn9ig1...3-406.pdf?dl=0

Lavandula

I sure wouldn't schlepp big bags on the trains when I could fly and not have to touch them between check in and arrivals. (If it was a city center to city center train with no connections, I'd usually take the train)

Have you changed trains in Europe with large suitcases?

The '3 hours' and '2 hours' in advance are boiler plate that all airlines publish. Whether flying domestic entirely within Schengen, or flying international/transatlantic. That's just what they tell everyone. Even at my small local airport with about 20 gates divided between two terminals . . . they still say 3 hours. Not necessary.

There are no compartments in these cars. Both trains have two side by side seats on one side and single seats on the other. We would reserve facing seats on the single side (both with window obviously).

In Koln the time between trains is 36 min and the change is from track 4 to 5 which I believe is on the same platform.

On the negative side we are not at the point of origin on either train. On the positive side not a lot of seats in the car of either train.

Which brings up another question.
Rather than take the train from Mainz to Koln and change going to Amsterdam would I be better off going from Mainz to Frankfurt (MAIN) hbf and take that same ICE train at the point of origin and go directly to Amsterdam with no additional changes?

>>> Rather than take the train from Mainz to Koln and change going to Amsterdam would I be better off going from Mainz to Frankfurt (MAIN) hbf and take that same ICE train at the point of origin and go directly to Amsterdam with no additional changes?
I don't know which day of the week you are thinking of doing this. If this is a weekday, you are heading to the work center during the rush hour.

It would be on a Wednesday.

There is no way I would be at FRA airport 3 hours in advance for a short flight FRA-AMS. An hour and a half max, maybe at a push 2 hours if at peak times, the check in is done online, you need to drop bags at bag drop which can be time consuming at peak times and get thru security, again this can be time consuming. The airlines just spout out 3 or 2 hours as a standard response. Given the choice of train or plane, plane would be what I would go with.

Same here; max 1,5 hours with check-in luggage, 1 hour with handluggage for a Schengen flight. With 2 suitcases and a change of trains, I would opt for flying.

We just had a management discussion and now we're leaning toward flying.

Stay tuned

Rather than take the train from Mainz to Koln and change going to Amsterdam would I be better off going from Mainz to Frankfurt (MAIN) hbf and take that same ICE train at the point of origin and go directly to Amsterdam with no additional changes??

Yes and leave plenty of time between trains at the airport but there are luggage carts everywhere - carry a euro coin to put in them to disengage them and you'll get the coin back when returning cart to a rack at the train station - you would come into the Regional bahnhof and have to walk about 10 minutes to the Fernbahnhof or long-distance station - again luggage carts make that so easy - total fare 39 euros if book in advance - planes will take about 4 hrs all told or if delayed more - total train time here is 4 h 28 to Amsterdam C.S. Can you fly for 39 euros? Train seems no-brainer to me and again you see some countryside in between.

Take the 8:20 link via Cologne would give you a chance to break your journey in Cologne to see the famous Cologne cathedral right next to the station.

OP will have no problems once they get on ICE train to Amsterdam as it terminates there.

Where in Amsterdam are you heading to once you get to the Amsterdam Centraal?
While you have only mentioned traveling during the day, an alternative is to travel at night. Train is not a good option in this case as such travel involves insane number of changes late at night. For example, there is a KLM flight leaving around 7:20pm and a Lufthansa leaving at 9:00 pm. If you have nothing special you were thinking of doing in Germany on your last evening, just travel the night before to AMS. The queues in the evening are usually shorter. This saves day time in Amsterdam without giving up day time in Germany. If you are going to Museumplein/Leidesplein/Elandsgracht area in Amstredam, the bus 397 would get you there faster than going via Amsterdam Centraal especially at that time of the night. You don't even have to get tickets before boarding the Connexxion bus 397. You hop on and pay cash to the driver.

Yes you would be. It would also go a lot towards solving your luggage issues.

Why this advice, when travel time by ICE from Frankfurt to Amsterdam is 4.5 hours without changes? a 7.20PM flight means needing to be at the airport between 4 and 5 PM. It means having to get back to your hotel to pick up the bags and being homeless during the day. Never my favorite way of spending time. Also I don't think Conexxion buses take cash anymore, but I could be mistaken.

Well, I absolutely adore going by train, and do it even if it is 1 or 2 hours longer. It's simply more comfortable for me, and much more straightforward. I've lived in Germany for 10 years, and have done most of my travel by train.

If you are in first class, chances are there will be room for your luggage.

Also, I am a short and thin 64-year-old woman, and have NO problems taking a 24-inch case as well as a smaller pack or bag. I have started making my connections longer, though, so I don't have to rush between trains.

Unless you are disabled, I just don't understand the aversion to actually walking with luggage or lifting it for a moment...

s

when travel time by ICE from Frankfurt to Amsterdam is 4.5 hours without changes?>

8:20 am train including travel from Mainz to Frankfurt Flughafen is just 4:28 according to www.bahn.de/en. Train is again a no-brainer IMO - shuffling baggage inside a crowded airport is no fun either.

It's easy to compare:
If you take the 12.40 flight, you must leave Mainz Hbf at 10.10
If you land at Schiphol at 13.50, have to fetch your luggage and to move to the train station, you may arrive at Amsterdam Centraal at 14.51

If you leave Mainz Hbf at 10.20 by train along the Rhine river and change at Cologne at the same platform, you will arrive at Amsterdam Centraal at 15.28

Advantages of the flight solution:
you are about half an hour faster;
you have the opportunity to do 2 rather long walks through 2 airports (if you take the train, the change at Cologne is on the same platform);
you have the opportunity to queue at the check in counter;
you will not be disturbed by views through the train windows to the scenic Rhine Valley;
you will have a (very slight) chance to get your luggage missrouted.

Check in counters hardly exist anymore. Check in is done online or at the airport using a kiosk which often can also be used to print luggage label and send bag on it's way to the hold.

As they will already have seen the Rhine Gorge (rest of Rhine to Cologne is so-so with lots of industry and few cute towns - the 8:20 from Mainz and airport to Amsterdam CS again takes 4 h 28 min - no reason to take longer Rhine route for OP unless they want to get off at Cologne. But for baggages putting them on the direct train to Amsterdam C S is to me better than taking train to airport and shuffling to check-in with bags and then waiting to pick them up in Amsterdam airport, etc.

Getting bags at Schiphol Airport and taking them on a potentially mobbed commuter train to Amsterdam also a hassle with bags. Taxis of course nice but cost a lot.

" rest of Rhine to Cologne is so-so with lots of industry"
I like the leg around Remagen, however

But there is just another thing I cannot unerstand:
The OP finds it to long to go from Frankfurt Flughafen S-Bahnhof to Frankfurt Fernbahnhof but seems to prefer now the much longer way from Frankfurt Flughafen S-Bahmnhof to the flight check in:

Yes train is easiest with bags - there will be lots of places to stow luggage near you as train begins in Frankfurt so unlikely to be really crowded -especially in first class.

Until today we were leaning towards flying.
Now I think the train might be better for us. We get 4 hours on the train to relax. Not so if we fly.
In both cases we would arrive around the same time 1:00-1:30.

I checked the Frankfurt station diagram and the entrance and tracks are all on ground level with no going up or down.

The price is pretty close both ways.

On the German railway site I notice that there's a Frankfurt (MAIN) and a Frankfurt (MAIN) Hbf. station.

Is that the same station or are they different?

>>> On the German railway site I notice that there's a Frankfurt (MAIN) and a Frankfurt (MAIN) Hbf. station. Is that the same station or are they different?
One way to find this out is to have www.bahn.com show you the station locations on a map.
Once you find an itinerary of interest, hit "Show Details." The "Map View" button at the bottom shows you the route, the departing and the arrival stations on a map.
The "Station Information" shows info on departing and the arrival station. For large stations like Frankfurt HBF or Köln HBF, it also shows you the station layout map.

>On the German railway site I notice that there's a Frankfurt (MAIN) and a Frankfurt (MAIN) Hbf. station.

Is that the same station or are they different?<

Yes, it should be the same station. 'Hbf' means Hauptbahnhof, which is 'main train station'. And in case of confusion, the (MAIN) means Frankfurt on the River Main (as opposed to Frankfurt an der Oder, which is on the Polish border).

>I checked the Frankfurt station diagram and the entrance and tracks are all on ground level with no going up or down.<

Does this mean you are going to the Hauptbahnhof instead of the Flughafen Fernbahnhof? Probably the train to Cologne (if that is your train, I have lost track) passes by the airport - usually that is so - and you can shave off a bit of your distance by simply leaving from there. I don't see any advantage by leaving from the Hbf, even if you are trying to avoid a move between tracks by escalator or stairs. I don't remember how to access the platforms at the Fernbf but usually if you have difficult luggage there is a lift you can take down to the main concourse (or indeed up to it). Many thousands of people change between tracks every day and manage just fine, and you will too. I promise, you won't miss your train!

Lavandula

Lavandula,

The main reason I'd get on the train at Hbf instead of at Flughafen Fernbf would be to board the train at its point of origin to make sure we don't have a luggage storage issue.

It has nothing to doing with changing trains (which I wouldn't have to do) nor does it have anything to do with tracks or platforms.

I did check the layout diagram for the Hbf station just to see if there were any changes in floor level between the station entrance and the track / platform level and there isn't.

OK, I can't fault that, if you get on at the point of origin you will have your choice of luggage storage, that is true.

At Frankfurt/ Main Hbf the platforms all culminate at the same point, they are not 'through' platforms as you get in other stations, so you don't need to think about going over or under the tracks to access the platform. So if lifting the bags is an issue, well, you have eliminated both of those sticking points by going that extra 12 minutes to the Hauptbahnhof. Schöne Reise! (Happy travels!)

Lavandula

Now let's see if we can regress a little.

Let's assume we were being driven from Mainz.

If we go to Frankfurt Central Station, the advantage is that we are at the beginning of the line with no luggage storage issues.

If we go to the airport train station (not the airport regional train station), the disadvantage is that we are at the second stop and not the line starting point. However, we have a shorter ride to the train station.

We will most likely be going at a busy time (around 8:00AM)

What are the chances the luggage storage area would fill up in one stop (first class), which train station would be easier to navigate and would there be more road traffic going to either train station?

Below is the diagram of the train car though not for the actual date. The only place I see where luggage can be stored is in those two slots about a quarter of the way from the right end of the train car. Is that correct?


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...8a16a297ae.jpg

If it were me, I'd start at Frankfurt HBF. Just for the ease of knowing that luggage storage will be there. You can bet that at Frankfurt Airport, many people will get on.

Menachem,

It looks like you were waiting for me to post. Very quick response. Thanks.

That kind of settles which train station. Are those 2 slots (car diagram above) about a quarter of the way from the right end of the train car for luggage storage? I don't see any other place.

I'll discuss again with my wife when she gets up and I get back from the gym. Then most likely buy train tickets this morning. There is only one set of single width, face-to-face seats with a table between on that train car. So I should buy the tickets quickly.

Thanks again Menachem. Excellent information on all of your posts that answer people's questions. I will get back to you on Rotterdam and possibly Utrecht soon.

Forgot to ask one more thing.

How much time should we allow to drive from Mainz to Frankfurt Central train station leaving around 8:00AM on a weekday?