The travel industry will never be the same. What changes would you like seen? How would do it?
 

There is even talk about federalizing airport security. Not sure it's the solution. I am willing to travel less and pay more (up to a reasonable limit), if there is some peace of mind. What do you think?

To add to my post: <BR> <BR>Every flight should have an armed, civilian Federal Marshall(s) on board. Cockpits should be locked and secure after departure. Sadly, airports and air travel have become the battlefields of the 21st Century and it should be treated as such.

I still like the idea of clear plastic bags for carry-on items, with family and friends not permitted into the secure areas. That would cut down on the numbers of people screened and would simplify the task of inspecting carry-on bags thoroughly. Even a box cutter couldn't get past security if it is in a clear plastic bag instead of a toilet kit. And imagine the deterrent effect. <BR> <BR>I haven't heard any experts mention this, so it must be a dumb idea. But it is certainly low-tech enough so that it could be implemented tomorrow.

why don't we just fly naked

I am definitely willing to show up early, have my stuff searched, not be allowed into the gate area without a ticket...all of that. We have had it sooo easy. That translates to easy for hijackers as well. Let's do what we have to do, and not whine about it.

i just can't believe that you people really believe the proposed security measures that limit nail files and pocket knives are preventative ... please convince me how requiring boarding passes to go to the gate will prevent willful and evil terrorists and extremists from taking over planes by force, even with their bare hands, if they so chose ... the aforementioned strategies are just not deterents - and will only impede regular travelers! there have to be better solutions

Forget political correctness, tell the ACLU to "piss up a rope" and use profiling. If the authorities feel a 63 year old white male is a threat I will be glad to submit to searches and questioning. Simplistic, yes. Effective, maybe.

Who said anyone thinks the pitiful security measures just announced are enough? <BR> <BR>We need redundant layers of security -- meticulous screening coupled with on-flight security coupled with hiring practices that maximize the chance that stringent rules will be followed, and serious consequences when they are not. <BR> <BR>My dad used to be an airline mechanic. You could hire minimum wage uneducated people to do that work, you know. But we don't do that, because mechanical safety is important. If he were to re-use a part to save a buck for the airline, he could lose his job and (depending on the circumstances) he might go to jail. <BR> <BR>Airline security should be no different. <BR> <BR>Right now, the FAA is in bed with the airlines too much. We need a separate agency akin to the Secret Service to make sure airport/airline security is taken seriously.

I like the plastic bag thing, Cindy. If you want to bring something on board, then you'll have to arrive THREE hours before the flight, and pay an additional fee to have your bags hand-searched (I'd be very willing to do this). If you arrive less than two hours before a flight with luggage, it's too late - you can get on, but not your luggage. All immigration officers should stamp your passport and all passports should be encoded to be run through a scanner. If you're country doesn't do both of those, your citizens won't be allowed to travel to the U.S. Sky Marshals on every flight (at least two); in the case of air rage, only ONE marshal makes his presence known. Cockpit doors should be bullet-proof and grenade-proof; still trying to figure out what to do about bathroom breaks. Flight attendants should have easy access to "panic buttons" much like what's in the cockpit.

Sorry if I'm wrong but all that I'm hearing it seems that people in American airports can get further than they can here in Canada. <BR> <BR>I was talking to my boyfriends brother who said when his friend picked him up in (Seattle or Austin I don't recall which city) he was waiting for him basically right outside the plane as he got off. <BR> <BR>Is this the standard practice? <BR> <BR>And when Cindy mentions family and friends in secured areas that means you can go to the gate without actually travelling? <BR>This is unbelivable to me.

In many US airports you can go right to the gate -- even for an international flight if it leaves from a domestic terminal, as do United and American international flights from O'Hare. Obvious that all has just changed.

Right now the security of airports lies almost solely with the airlines: this is a conflict of interests. Since the airlines don't want to piss pasengers off (pasengers = revenue) by making them jump through too many hoops, they have come up with tiny solutions for an enormous problem. Does anyone out there honestly believe the airlines could have come up with--and implemented--enough safeguards to make a difference in such a short amount of time? No, I think not. But rather than simply curse the darkness, I will try to light a candle or two: <BR> <BR>1. ALL airport security should be handled by one corporation or branch of government. The way it stands now, we have virtually hundreds of little security forces--all with their owns sets of rules and regulations--running the airports of this country. Sure, they must have their plans approved by the FAA, however, until these forces are standardized and the training of the personell unified, the system will only be as strong as the weakest link. <BR> <BR>2. The metal detectors in Airports should be replaced with MRIs. What good are metal detectors when we are living in a world where ceramic knives and, yes, even ceramic guns are being made. MRIs are harmless and can be adjusted to see through clothes as well as bodies (people also smuggle things inside themselves). <BR> <BR>3. American airplanes should be redisigned so that the pilots enter the plane form the outside. If there is no door leading to the cockpit there is no way for terrorists to enter it. The cockpits could be redesigned to contain their own toilets as well as food dispensing units. <BR> <BR>These are just a few ideas for your consideration. Expensive? Yes. Time consuming? Definitely. The bottom line is, however, if we are to insure that no plane is ever hijacked again, we must do our damndest to make them UN-hijackable. <BR> <BR>It won't be easy. It won't be cheap. But often the best things come with a price.

Richard, your profile would match an Irish terrorist. So maybe you should rethink.

All we know is what has been announced - I don't think that we are being told all the security measures, and rightfully so. Otherwise we might as well give terrorists an instruction manual.

Aha! The plastic bag idea gains momentum! :) Elvira, I mentioned in another post that the plastic bag thing was what they did for security when I took the Bar Exam in 1986. All your pencils, gum, keys and tampons right out there for everyone to see in a plastic bag. <BR> <BR>Again (for the third time today), I will point out that you cannot entomb the pilots in the cockpit. Airline security experts say that there are many reasons why the pilots may need to leave the cockpit during flight. Landing gear problems, engine failure and fire, fire. One expert told of a plane in which an evacuation slide deployed on take-off and was trailing behind the plane, and the pilots had no idea what was going on until one of them came back to look. So secure the doors if you like, but pilots have to be able to go into the cabin if they need to. <BR> <BR>To our Canadian friend: Having family members saunter right up to gates is the least of our problems in the U.S. Recall the Dateline-style investigative report in which they had a producer get hired on as a food service worker or some such? He was quickly hired on for baggage check with no training at all. Then one day he took a hidden camera and wandered all around the insides of several parked planes, encountering plenty of employees who asked no questions, just to prove he could. There just isn't much security in the U.S. <BR> <BR>Richard, why don't we just intern everyone who likes like an Arab American? And anyone who looks like Tim McVeigh? Have you learned nothing?

According to the news, earlier this year, American Airlines uniforms and a pilot's key card -- which grants access to the holder to any American Airlines facility in the world -- were taken from a HOTEL IN ROME. SCARY, how sophisticated was the planning, but how simple was to execute it. <BR> <BR>On lax security, we need to thank, for one, the Business/First Class passenger that gets to the gate on "photo-finish" and makes a scene, pulling "the frequent flyer" bull to get in the plane without much inspection, and the airline for spoiling the assholes at the cost of lax security.

I would like to know if I am missing something that needs to be explained to me regarding check-in. I have never understood the process of showing your drivers license to the agent, answering yes or no as to your bags, leaving the counter walking thru the scanner and boarding the plane. What is to keep anyone from handing your ticket to anyone and letting them fly with your ticket. Of coarse I know foreign travel is different with the passport, but I never understood the process for domestic travel. <BR>I am traveling to London from LAX October 7th, on United Vacations Package. I fully expect them to not be back to normal by then.

I think it is very unlikely that a hijacker will ever gain access to the cockpit ever again - - and I think that it would not be difficult nor expensive to implement a two-door system access to the cockpit to ensure it would not ever happen again. <BR> <BR>This system of doors is widely in use in banks in Europe. It requires any person wanting to enter to pass through a first door, which must lock behind. The space between the two doors is just big enough to accommodate one person. The second door is transparent (and probably bulletproof) and requires activation from someone inside to allow it to open. <BR> <BR>I believe that a retro-fit could be accomplished within 24 hours for (one) airplane. The "first" door could be a semi-circular "accordion-type" gate (like the barrier that is used to close off a school cafeteria) - - takes almost no space, and could be stored out of the way (when the plane is on the ground) in a minimum of space. <BR> <BR>And I am not saying that I am for this, nor against this - - but I suspect that CONSPICUOUS sky marshals will appear on many flights - - sooner rather than later. And who will ever know how many INconspicuous marshals will be flying? <BR> <BR>Rex <BR>

Marjiz, the reason you have to show your driver's license is for security. The ticket agent compares the name on your license (with your picture on it) to the name on your ticket. This way, only you can use your ticket. This is presuming that your license is genuine, of course. It is also the reason that no airline tickets are transferable. If the picture doesn't match you, and the name on doesn't match the one on the ticket, you can't fly. The rule is that only one or two letters can be different (to allow for typographical errors). <BR>

I think the point is that you can do that at the check-in counter then hand your ticket to someone else who then goes through security and onto the flight. It is only on international flights that they check the passport at security -- at least in Chicago.

Linda, <BR> <BR>I think you missed the point of the question asked by Marjiz - - she wants to know why has it (the ID checking process) always been so LAX - - so DISTANT from the gate. <BR> <BR>There has never been any requirement that the person checking in is actually the person boarding the plane. I think we might all expect to have to show ID again right at the door of the plane. <BR>

Linda, you missed my point. My point is, after showing your drivers license to the agent upon check in ( here in Calif. at Ontario Airport or LAX) you would walk away from the counter and could give your ticket to anyone, it is never checked again before boarding as long as you already have seat assignment. I actually mentioned this to a United Agent this morning, and her response was good question.

Interesting. I always use curb-side check-in, so I have to show my ticket and ID at the curb and again at the gate. But I guess you guys just pointed out another grotesque hole in security.

Another point regarding airports. I think it would be a good idea for only passengers with tickets to go thru the scanner. What real difference does it make that your family actually walk you to the departure gate? I belive in Cleveland that is their policy. It would definitely lessen the load for security checking purses and other bags by persons not traveling.

Plastic bags for carryon items wouldn't work. <BR> <BR>I worked in a store once where you had to carry everything in a plastic bag. Those bags got so full with your wallet, keys, book, tampons, etc. etc. etc. that you couldn't tell what was in the middle of it. <BR> <BR>Besides, who says that a knife or box cutter can't be hidden inside a shoe...or a book inside of the plastic bag. Or plastic explosives inside a wallet. <BR> <BR>Unrealistic, sorry.

Seal the cockpits before the cabin door is closed until after the plane is on the ground and the cabin door is opened. <BR>Without access to the controls at most the plane will be destroyed (which it would be anyhow) but could not be used as a suicide weapon. <BR>

In the "life imitates art" category -- <BR> <BR>Passengers on at least one charter flight hoping to take off from London's Stansted airport for Canada on Thursday were banned from taking their own hand baggage on board, and instead given transparent plastic bags to help prevent the concealment of a weapon. <BR> <BR>http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/...ghts_dc_3.html

Shell, I disagree. <BR> <BR>Just because the items are in a clear plastic bag does not mean you forego an ex-ray search and hand inspection. The clear (and relatively small) nature of the clear plastic bag prevents hidden pockets that a hand search of a normal bag could miss, and it should speed the search up. If the bag is stuffed such that everything isn't clearly visible, the whole thing gets dumped in a bin for hand inspection. Stuff a razor blade in a show, and it will show right up on X-ray as suspicious. Put plastic explosive in your wallet and . . . well, nothing we do now would catch that either. <BR> <BR>No, the idea isn't perfect, but it is much better than the hit and miss inspection we do now.

High tech companies take a "picture" of your retina and then require you to place your face in front of a scanner so it can match it to your retina ID. There has been talk of doing this on passports to disallow fake passports. This would be installed before every loading gate and you would be required to check in immediately before boarding. <BR>It may not be long before your drivers license, credit cards, etc, all have and use this feature.

other ideas?

well, you can prevent bombs and guns but you cannot prevent crazy people from getting on board. <BR> <BR>there should be a way to screen against the criminal mindset being allowed free & unfettered access to the skies. There is no inalienable right to fly, that I am aware of at any rate. <BR> <BR>how about having to pass a security clearance when you buy a ticket, which is good for one year - must be renewed annually? <BR> <BR> <BR>Beth <BR>

Beth, I agree with you. A license to fly! What a great idea! Judy ;-)

Put yourself in the shoes of someone responsible for administering such a licensing system, Beth and Judy. How would you know not to grant such a license to one of these "sleeper" Al-Qaida "agents"? Or to Timothy McVeigh? <BR> <BR>Rex <BR>

Your tickets already say that you should be at the airport a couple hours before departure. Nobody does it though. So many people show up at the last minute, that the harried agents and security people just whisk them through. You should be REQUIRED to be past security and at the gate at least one hour before deaprture. Any later, and you don't go. We should also impose security similar to the UK and Germany - lots of security people who appear trained (not non-English speaking, rude, bored minimum wage rent-a-cops). They should be doing individual wand searches on every male passenger between 16-50 years of age. Random males should be strip searched to ensure none are wearing anything that might pass for a bomb underneath. <BR> <BR>Airline cabins should be turned into armored compartments with gun-carrying pilots. There should be video cameras on each flight so pilots can see what's going on outside the cabin. (They can also be used for settling Air Rage incidents.)

Plastic bags won't do any good because the terrorists could still hide things in their clothing. Obviously, the majority of travellers aren't killers and aren't going to have any type of weapons on them. I've heard they are checking some people's ID's 3-4 times. <BR> <BR>The license deal wouldn't work either, like someone else said, the terrorists would just get licenses like they got pilot licenses and fake ID's! I think an armed guard needs to be on each plane and the cockpit needs to be more secure. Even then, I would question if the armed guard is the real thing or a terrorist in hiding.

I wasn't necessarily referring to a license per se, as in a driver's license, I mean a real honest to God security check like you need for certain jobs, passing the State Bar (lawyers) that sort of thing. where did you live for the past ten years, where did you work, any criminal records, any affiliations with any shady operations, etc. <BR> <BR>and this is not something to be sorted out at the airport like other last minute security issues. you cannot even get the ticket unless you have one of these things on record (yes, there are privacy issues, but for a job or the bar for instance they do this, to make sure you are not a shady character- why not for a plane? again, no inalienable right to fly...) <BR> <BR>and of course the ticket MUST be in your name/ID number assigned, and if you don't have ID on you at the airport, nope, not getting on that plane. <BR> <BR>you can't go anywhere internationally without a passport so why not another document for all flights, domestic or not... (which, I would PRESUME a passport would supposedly be there to screen for the very thing I am talking about... right? if it is NOT - why not? <BR> <BR>except that a passport is good for ten years, so much can change...

The problem with sealing off the pilot's cabin is that the fiends would take hostages on the plane until the cabin was opened. <BR> <BR>One possible solution would be to have a non-fatal, knockout gas stored in the plane and the minute a hijacking occurred the pilot would push a button knocking out everyone in the main cabin. That way the pilot could keep control of the aircraft. <BR> <BR>Far out? Think of September 11.

I posted this on another post I opened (perspective on flying and hijacking) <BR> <BR>my conversation with a pilot friend of mine... <BR> <BR>******** <BR> <BR>This is not an aviation security issue. <BR>The pilots of those planes had an information problem. If they had known the hijackers were willing to kill themselves, the pilots would have taken whatever action necessary to defend or scuttle the plane. IE: <BR> <BR>(dump the cabin pressurization: hurts a lot and you pass out in about 15 seconds-think Payne Stewart. Perform aerobatics-yes, you can roll and probably loop a jetliner. At the very least, a few negative g pushovers and pull-ups will disrupt anyone standing on their feet. Remember the passengers are mostly seated with seatbelts on. Take off your seatbelt and your in for a wild ride. When the hijinks are through, the passengers are going to beat your ass.) <BR> <BR>this is part of his comments...

Yes, Beth, I agree again. And IF we put up as many hurdles as possible, "permissions to fly", improved cockpit security, random air marshalls, profiling(yes, I said the unPC word) in times of national crisis, than maybe we can all start to travel as we did before (if we have any money to travel if the stock market continues to fall). Judy

ttt for Micia and others.