The Topic of American Bashing
 

While I certainly did not vote for Bush, and definately could be considered a liberal, I want to pose this question...

We are on a forum discussing the beauty of other lands and cultures and places we all like to travel to and from. The essence of travel is learning and seeing new people, places, and lands, right?

Does anyone else find it a bit offensive when, even in fun, entire cultures, lands, and peoples are made fun of? Wouldn't that be a sort of issue with stereotypes?

For one, as an American of many different ethnic backgrounds, I realize that NOT all Americans are the same. I have made, thankfully, many friends from London and other parts of Europe who were shocked when they learned more about me and my beliefs and they realized I did not fit their stereotype of a typical "American".

I agree that when in Rome, one should do as the Romans do to the best of their ability. But I also realize that it takes a while to change old habits, and some things that are comfortable and ok in one culture and land, may be very uncomfortable and not ok in another.

I know many on here are just making jokes, but I find it a bit depressing that so many think that making jokes on stereotypes is ok. I think that many would find it offensive or at the least ignorance on the part of the jokester if the comments were made about their culture or land of origin.

what?

nearly all of the "american bashing" on this board comes from american europhiles who are ashamed. wouldn't you agree? i'm not sure if this is a matter of stereotyping...more like just a weird, self conscious view of oneself as a nation.

it's not very clear in your post what your problem is. your subject is american bashing but i'm not sure how this relates to your post. sorry, i don't get it.

My point was that those who bash any culture are missing the joys and beauty of traveling.

From the numerous posts that bashed not only Americans, both other Nationalities as well, I found it disturbing that people made the actions of a select few representative of entire nations and cultures.

Anyone who is even halfway familiar with this board knows that threads like this do nothing but stir up trouble. This thread will get ugly and it will be deleted by the editors. So what's the point?

I did not vote for Bush. I have never been bashed traveling outside the United States. The closest thing to "American Bashing" I've experienced on this board was the discussions of creme, afternoon, and high teas with the point being High tea is not posh but a working class version of dinner (or supper depending on your origin in the US).

So, I suppose the answer to your question (?) is "no".

The rest of the post is just too hard to follow.

I am sorry. I do not mean to stir up any problems. I was just disappointed by some of the generalizations I saw on a recent post.

I love this forum for all that I have learned about travel, and from all of the advice I have received.

I was simply trying to say, that even though some things are said in fun and in jest and not meant to be harmful, that I felt that making comments or generalizations about entire cultures or nationalities was a bit offensive, even if those are made by people from that group.

Dear M,

Your are arguing against a trait that is common to all humans.

I don't know how many times I have heard Europeans say, "Well, you know how the xxx are".

It is also why we have statistical analysis; so that we don't substitute anecdotes for evidence.

Don't let it worry you.

Quite frankly, I wonder why all you bleeding-heart, knee-jerk liberals are always going on about "stereotypes".

((I))
I don't thnk I really have to put a smiley face, do I?

:)

I know you are right...I also get upset when some Americans say things about the French. Some of the things are based upon silly stereotypes. I just don't like it in general when people say things about an entire group of people.

Yes, sigh, I am one of those liberals. Ha!!

I

If you say you were not looking to stir up trouble, then I will take you at your word. But stereotyping of all nationalities occurs everywhere, and most everyone will fall victim to it at some time or another. It can't be avoided. Like others on this board, I have never felt bashed for being American. People treat me the way I treat them and they judge me for the person I am.

Yes, I was not stiring up trouble. And I also acknowledged that it was not just Americans that negative comments were made about. Thankfully, other posters on here as well did not care for a certain post and pointed out how offensive it was to mention and label an action by the nationality of the person(s) who supposedly committed the "offensive" action.

I am for everyone learning about all people and cultures and hey, if a person is rude or gets too much at a buffet or scratches an important monument, then THAT person is rude, and their nationality has nothing to do with it.

I find it odd that though I am arguing for more....understanding of different cultures and more cultural sensitivity, I am somehow being labeled negatively? Interesting.

The way I see it, "bleeding heart Lieberal" is a complement. There is just too much in this world to make our hearts bleed, and if bleeding from the heart for the sorrows of mankind is bad, then I must be horribly rotten.

However, there is nothing knee-jerk about me. I don't just react as a Liberal; I consider every situation on its own, and find myself taking positions that a liberal platform would not include.

And if there are knee-jerk liberals, I'm absolutely certain that there are knee-jerk conservatives, too.

ps. Lieberal was a totally innocent typo.

I guess I did have to put a smiley face.

No, you didnt have to put a smiley face. I knew you were coming from a good place and I liked your post! I think your post was very cool!

You totally rock! :)

Dear Ira,

Nah, my brain just processes information much more slowly than I type.

But maybe some knee jerk Conservatives will read it anyway, and stop using that stupid phrase.

Sorry about that,
Debbie (my only excuse is a brain injury; I'll never be as sharp as I once was)

Thank you, M.

((I))

here's a question to test your tendency to use stereotypes.

Describe a Mormon or a JW

that wasn;t really a question, was it?

what? Sorry, I am missing the point you are making. Please explain.

I could only discuss WHAT a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness believes religous wise according to their respective religious tennants....I would not be able to say what they or their group is like personality or action wise.

milliondollarbbw - Your audience might not so much be labelling you negatively as puzzled over your contradictory message. You make a plea for a nonpartisan forum, but began your post with a statement of partisanship: "While I certainly did not vote for XXX..." As you say, not everyone is the same, and generalizations are to be avoided. Ergo, why begin by insinuating that a person's social tolerance can be generalized from how they voted?

Ira - It seems you needed to use that smiley face after all. Better yet, I shall stand up and yell: REGARDING THAT BLEEDING HEART REMARK, IRA WAS BEING IRONIC.

There. :)

Mormon's, in my experience, are polite young men dressed in black, with white shirts, who come to my door and wish to discuss religion and theology.

After a few hours or so, they leave and I don't see them again.

A few days later an older gentleman of the same faith arrives with the same intent.

I ask about the young men.

They have returned to Utah for further study.

I have had only one similar experience with a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

((I))

Sue xx yy:

I did get that and I apologized. I am sorry that you didn't see my apology. I'm still sorry.

Last time I checked, it's offensive to make fun of OTHER people...but to make fun of oneself is considered self-depracating, and if done correctly, downright funny.

Jules,

"In favor of Americans making fun of Americans since 1967."

Sue, I am sorry that you missed the intended message of my posting.

I started off by saying that I did not vote for a certain president as a way of saying that I am not approaching this from a nationalistic perspective. I realized that by even using the term American, that many people, from their postings, could possibly write me off as being an overzealous nationalist. This being because of many different things that have occurred media wise due to the war, etc.

And yes, I realized that Ira was being funny. No need to yell.

I agree with P M. Just let this thread die. Nothing constructive is being accomplished.

Don't bash others.
Don't base opinions on stereotypes.
Don't make fun of others.

Does that cover it?
Hope so.

Jules,

I guess I just feel differently than you do in that, to me, all Americans are different. And yes, it rubs me wrong when we are all lumped together as being the same. So, if an American makes fun of another American, to me it is offensive because we are all drastically different and what is one American's reality, is not necessarily, my reality. We are definately a nation that is divided.

But the issue was about more than just American's bashing Americans. There were other postings that mentioned different groups from all over the world. So my point was, even in fun, it is not right to label all people one way or another.

I come from the point of view, that even when using a positive stereotype (all people from xyz are great kissers!), then that opens the door for those to apply and use negative stereotypes.

Sooooo.....

Don't bash others.
Don't base opinions on stereotypes.
Don't make fun of others.

DOES cover it? If so, let this die.

Hi M,

>So, if an American makes fun of another American, to me it is offensive because we are all drastically different and what is one American's reality, is not necessarily, my reality. <

You are correct, of course. However, you have taken upon yourself a project similar to Hercules's Fifth Labor.

((I))

Hi tuscanlifeedit
>my only excuse is a brain injury;...<

Sorry to hear that.

((I))

Ha ha! You are funny!!

Gosh, what was Hercule's fifth labor? I remember having to draw a little book about all of Hercule's Labors in school.....

Herakles' fifth labor (according to most versions) was to clean the smelly stables of King Augeus of Elis in one day. Augeus had thousands of cattle. Herakles diverted the courses of two rivers to do it. Elis = area of Olympia