That clothes thing!
 

I've recently seen for myself the effect of clothes and restaurants.
I went to a recommended Venetian restaurant in the evening with my husband, We were not dolled up, but I was wearing a dress and jacket and he was wearing a nice dark shirt (no collar and tie). All the tables seemed to have names on them, but I asked in Italian if they could find us a table. They could.
As we sat there, another couple came along in classic tourist gear. The head waiter pointed apologetically to all the "booked" tables and said that they were completely booked up for the evening.
Next, a well-dressed young English couple came along without a reservation and a table was miraculously found for them!
Most of the tables filled up with people who really had booked, but it was interesting that the waiter was able to turn people away without causing offence.

My experience has been the same. Not just in Europe. Try walking up to a cosmetics counter in your local department store. I always get much better service if I'm in work or dress clothes as opposed to my "Saturday" clothes.

My experience has been the same. I get much better service wearing my dress sweatshirt and dark gym pants than my
"saturday" jogging suit.

Taking a bath also helps get you in the real snotty places.

Degas,

Taking a bath is a must! Sweat pants in public? How 80's of you, I do hope they are at the least velour and you are not over 23.

I've had very similar things happen also, and I'm not sure this is all about clothes. When a place has reserved on all the tables and is able to produce a table for one couple but not another it could be a variety of reasons including general "profiling" -- do these people look like they will spend money? Do they look like they're tired and just want to sit? And I won't even get into the nationality issues. Etc.

I'm not at all surprised by this, Sylvia, and it makes perfect sense, however I agree with Patrick that there is sometimes more to it.

Have you ever noticed that wealthy people often look like they have money even when they are dressed casually? Haircut? Jewelry? Shoes? Attitude? Facelifts? There is a certain je ne sais quoi that I'll bet a maitre d in an expensive European restaurant can smell a mile away.

But also because they are "regulars."

P.S. and then there's Dave! Did you read about that fashionistas restaurant in Paris run by that Chinese guy Dave, Who lets who he wants in at whim after the well know fashion people are in.

I used to ride cross country and one day, after a particularly intense ride on muddy trails, followed by an hour of mucking manure, I stopped at Saks to pick something up from the cosmetics counter. I was still wearing breeches and boots and I suspect I smelled unlike any scent you can find at Saks.

The first salesgirl wouldn't give me the time of day. The second, however, was all over me. "Oh, do you ride? What kind of horse do you have?" She was amazingly obsequious to someone who probably still had a hint of eau de manure clinging to her boots.

Sure to get a table ?

http://www.boners.com/content/791475.1.jpg

Oh my. Is that one of the regular posters?

Interestingly, we found that wearing boat shoes to places that are known for their marina scene can get you into places that otherwise would not look at you.

After all, that scruffy looking slob might own the 75-footer at the dock.

I know there are a lot of these clothing questions and that from many points of view they can be taken as superficial. I know you regulars have had it up to here with them. Still...

That old adage "clothes make the man" does still apply in cities especially.

I've been wanting to ask this question but hated to post it, so since this is a clothing thread here goes.

Are black boots with rather chunky heals fashionable in Paris? I have some I can walk in miles with but truthfully I like to look good on the street.

I have worn my black tennis shoes in cities before to tour comfortably but I don't like to look like a slob. I travel light and don't like to take two pair.

Sylvia, your comment makes perfect snese to me.

I won't be offended if no one answers this or even makes a snippy reply. :)

cymbeline, the one strong thought I have is "take another pair of shoes". I learned the hard way on a quick flight to LA. Do not know what happened but the heal on my boot broke off! Oh that was fun indeed. Did have another pair with me but in checked luggage so there I was in the airport, walking to gate and this happened. A very dear older man (employee - janitor I think) had me wait, took my boot and heel "somewhere" and glued it on for me. That lasted until I landed, thank goodness. Was on a real tight schedule so without the other pair in my luggage it would have been a BIG problem.

About the style or not in Paris, sure someone else here can advise you.

Whoa! I hope that is not one of our regular posters :O Which one would it be ? :D

Degas, I seem to remember being in certain cities where they might not know you from a "native" if you take less baths :)

Scarlett, assuming a natural aroma is a great way to blend in with the locals - especially in france where going without a bath for four days will usually do the trick if you mix it with long walks and no rightguard!

In a situation as Sylvia described, I usually just plop my huge butt down and call the sissy-boy waiter over.
Its thier problem about re-arranging the little cards on the tables.

I'm hungry and don't have time for silly games. They have food and I will have it or there will be hell to pay!

If they act superior or pitch a hissy-fit, I walk back into the kitcken and give my order directly to the cook in a loud and firm voice slightly tinged with malice. Slamming a few pots and pans around usually ensures faster service.

I live in Silicon Valley. It is filled with kids and adults wearing bad clothing. So I wear a suit and tie. When I go into any shop I get great service. They believe I own some company as they never see anyone dressed well anymore. Works great here and better in Europe! I think the "dress ugly" phase may be coming to an end soon. Bout time!

degas, you should give lessons on How to Handle Waiters While Traveling :D

I really don't care what people wear if they are nice and fun but I do notice when Floridians visit here, they were brighter colors/prints than we in the East.Now I like prints but what I like are the old small turn ogf the century ones, you never see anymore. Glad to see seersucker is back EVEN in JIL SANDERS collection. Our house fashion Director poo-pooed it but I have a male friend who wears the most attractive seersucker shirts in summer that cost $250 but he gets a 50% discount where he works.

Scarlett, I've rarely seen a waiter I didn't dislike. They are a sneaky, lazy lot that bear much watching and swift discipline.

Hi cigal,

>I do notice when Floridians visit here, they were brighter colors/prints than we in the East.<

How far East are you that Florida is West?

Degas, Scarlett & Ira, as usual, these things are always much more fun when you 3 come out to play!

Hi ira, good morning from Boston/Cambridge.

Degs: Do we want to hear more about the "swift discipline?"

As I wrote in the other post I am a sometimes hostess for our family's restaurant. It is human nature to notice a client's appearance, it is self explanatory and common sense. Appearance might be clothes, demeanor or even notoriety but if you are polite and direct that works too.

It is sad that human beings seem to be unable to give up the habit of judging others by outward appearances--skin color, hair style, clothing.

Rufus, I don't disagree with you, but we are hardwired to judge others by appearance. All animals do. We want to pick the healthiest, most likely to survive mate to carry on our DNA -- it's that simple. Of course, we civilized humans have raised this basic instinct to unbelievably sophisticated and complex heights!

If Rufus is referring to me: I don't "judge" on skin color or hairstyle. I judge on cleaniless, neatness and the appearance the person wants to present. Don't kid yourself, you do too Rufus. Marilyn has self knowledge enough to know this.

i think it's a mistake to assume that the motivation is based on who the restaurant thinks will spend the most money at the table. and therefore, that the "well dressed" people (whatever that means) will get the best service or will be less likely to be turned away.

i think it's probably obvious but the people who look most like the restaurant's target customer will get the best service. some restaurants target tourists and these places love rich americans no matter the dress. other places target locals who may choose the restaurant to avoid the tourists--therefore you are less welcome since you threaten the long term popularity with locals. others have a bias toward older, younger, certain ethnic groups, stylish, funky, traditional, etc.

kswl, I've had to use my bull-whip on more than one occasion in Paris. Oddly enough, most of them have thanked me later for enabling them to see the error of thier snotty little ways.

degas: ooooooooh...kinky!

S&M .....
.
.
. . .smack and makeup

Degas, have you, pray tell, ever worried about what the chef or the waiter "does" to your food in the kitchen before it is brought to you. Just wondering hehe.

After having served in the French Foreign Legion, I am fully aware of what vile, dastardly deeds can go on in a french kitchen.

That's why I make the LW keep an eagle eye on the entire process and also have them serve it american style so no monkey business can occur between courses.

Well Degas, after you get through banging everyone over the head with pots and pans I don't suppose they are feeling "very clever" and just want to get your food to you ASAP and get you the heck out of the restaurant. So they probably wouldn't feel bright enough or want to take the time to "doctor" your food anyway. Stupid me, I should have thought of that to begin with. :-<

It's one thing to make private "judgements" about a person, it's another to refuse them service based on those judgements.

Sylvia: Try this out. I am curious as to your results.

Go to a mall. Look at all the people in the mall. Close to 95% of them will be dressed very poorly. Bad clothes, sloppy jeans, poor haircuts, big dirty tennis shoes, sweat pants in public and 100 pounds overweight and on and on and on.

Now the question: Most of them will be carrying packages from mall clothing stores. What do they do with those clothes? Save them to wear in public? They are in public now! It is an amazing thing to think about. The kids dress like slobs and still buy more slob clothes.

wojaz is right. A relative who is in sales, tells us all the time about customers who look like they should be getting Food Stamps, but they buy really big ticket items, cash.
That is the first thing he learned when he went into the sales business, Never Judge..you are almost always wrong.

The BIG story in the late l950's in Oakland CA at the than popular Capwell's Dept. Store was this.

A woman went up to the designer dress dept. She had on "sloppy clothes", hair in curlers with a scarf over the curlers. No makeup.

This was where a customer, or as they were called than a "client" had models come out in the dresses.

This woman walked around the dept. for quite awhile. Noone even spoke to her.
She finally requested service from a salesclerk who had been ignorning her.

This woman was waited on, but barely.
She asked to have the dress she wished to purchase "modeled". She was told that "no model was available madam".

The woman left and went home.

That evening she went to a very elegant society function.

The next day Capwell's was advised that this lady would no longer be interested in their merchandise. The account was ordered closed.

This woman, when she walked into Capwell's had just returned from Lake Tahoe. She lived in the Oakland Hills.

Her family? Well the shipyard known for getting the WWII ships built was named for her family. The first HMO, and a very thriving hospital chain to this day named for her family.

The instructions that Capwell's (that is no longer in exsistance) taught every salesperson after that experience.
You do not judge a customer by their appearance.

I know, because I had a summer job with Capwell's and had to sit through their orientation classes. This was back with sale associates were trained. I will never forget the story.

On my thread asking about about buying eyeglass frames I shared the story about the Italian who was CEO of Luxottica.

So I sure agree with Scarlett's comments on her post regarding Wojazz post (are you all still with me?) :-O

Oh my goodness!
I certainly started something. Can it be that I have been dwelling under a bridge and didn't know it?
I think that my main point was that the waiter was able to pick and chose his customers without causing offence.
Personally I wouldn't go into even a modest shop wearing "sloppy clothes", hair in curlers with a scarf over the curlers. I don't dress up to the nines or spend a fortune on clothes, but why look horrible when you can look presentable?