Fodor's Travel Talk Forums

Fodor's Travel Talk Forums (https://www.fodors.com/community/)
-   Europe (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/)
-   -   Thanks Britian! (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/thanks-britian-189268/)

John Sep 14th, 2001 10:44 PM

Jessica, I love Britain and most of the time I sincerely respect the BBC, but I've been watching the Beeb during this period and I have to say I don't regard their coverage as all that objective, either. The BBC from time to time edges up real close to anti-Israel sentiment IMO, and also IMO consistently manages to blunt historic British culpability in the whole mess. From Afghanistan to the postwar realpolitik Britain exercised throughout the Arab world, the UK acted in the interests of BP and Burmah Oil, and the desire to retain imperial hegemony in the whole region. British fingerprints are all over the political and cultural structure of the region and to suggest otherwise ignores some pretty important history. <BR> <BR>In any case linking the Bin Laden cabal too strongly to the Palestinians or issues in the eastern Mediterranean is a stretch, and the BBC knows that’s so. In my opinion, the best thing the BBC’s done in the last day or two is having Simon Peres on, who described terrorism as a cancer which needs systemic curing, not just random surgery. The US networks seem to have ignored Israeli statesmen with real experience in anti-terrorism, except for the occasional El Al spokesman describing the security measures one goes through for any flight on that carrier. <BR> <BR>By the way, Thomas Friedman writes for the NY Times, not the WSJ. <BR> <BR>

sylvia Sep 15th, 2001 04:09 AM

British people are quite rightly sharing in the grief of our American friends. <BR>However, just think for a minute. Supposing the IRA had managed a similar atrocity in the City of London. They are funded and supported by Americans. Would there have been tears and a three minutes silence? I certainly hope so, but would we have seen in Boston and New York the kind of jubilation we were recently shocked to see on the Left Bank. We should oppose all terrorist groups wherever they are and whoever they target. No cause justifies the murder of innocent civilians.

chris Sep 15th, 2001 05:56 AM

I thought I would report on some of the very touching tributes I have witnessed here in Central Europe since Tuesday. As it was my spouse and I were at a Mozart concert in Salzburg with my parents and sister who were visiting from the US when we found out about the attacks on the WTC. Before the concert there was a moment of silence and they changed the program to reflect the somber mood. <BR> <BR>Over the past few days we traveled through Southern Germany and the Alsace region of France before returning to Switzerland. Everywhere we went flags are being flown at half-mast (even at my tiny local supermarket) and the radio was playing songs dedicated to the victims of Tuesday's attacks. I have received several emails from my British relatives (my spouse is British) and friends expressing outrage and condolences. I cannot tell you how much it means to an Ex-pat like me to see this incredible international outpouring of support. I have never felt so American or so far from home. I have no stomach for further violence, all I can hope for is peace. <BR> <BR>I have just taken my family to the airport and pray they have a safe journey home.

Virginia Sep 15th, 2001 08:03 AM

John I heard the reference to John Friedman's statement on Charlie Rose two-hour special Friday night, perhaps this was an excerpt from an op-ed piece he did for the Wall Street Journal, as this was the reference given on the show. I have read Friedman's pieces in the NYT. I can remember feeling outraged at his local news style of sensationalism splattered on the front page of the New York Times. <BR> <BR>I think you might be feeling the BBC is slanted because of the very one-sided coverage we get here. British journalist aren't forced to deal with bias management or an administration taking a certain position, they are objective on this issue. <BR> <BR> But I suppose this is not the place John. I was saying thank you because for me the BBC was holding a small candle that we will start to see some truth on this coverage. I don't want us to abandon Israel John, I just want us to stop ignoring the Palestinians. I think this is a very generous statement given they are an occupying force in the region. Nevertheless, I don’t want more blood shed and they have established themselves as a state that we need to acknowledge. But we need to protect the Palestinians because it is the right thing to do. <BR> <BR>I am also well aware of British imperialism in the Middle East I was coming here to say thank you to the BBC. Not sure if you have looked at this issue from another angle. I have tried to distance myself so my references are from the early nineties but the books that have helped me were Edward Said’s, “Orientalism”, “Arab and Jew, wounded spirits in the promise land”, David Shipler and finely, Albert Hournani’s, “A history of the Arab Peoples'. Reading look a tad biased? I am sorry if I could find information in our papers I would not feel compelled to look elsewhere. I have spent time in Israel I know their fear but I also know Palestinian fear and this is something most American’s are blind to. <BR> <BR>I apologize to all of you who came here simply to say or read thank you. I don’t feel like I can walk away from this kind of discussion right now. I am very afraid for Arabs living here. I am also afraid that we will start and indiscriminant bombing campaign and we will be shielded as usual from knowing any pain and suffering that we infict. <BR>

Kate Sep 15th, 2001 08:29 AM

Sylvia, I am an American of Irish Catholic decent and I can tell you that we have always cried for the killings that have taken place. I have also had British guns pointed at me in Northern Ireland. We are all people Sylvia and a life is life. I think the difference here and we have seen this happened to you, civilians were involved here. Sylvia you just have to remember you have not experienced blood shed thank god at this level. You might give a bit more consideration to your remarks. I feel like it is 1940 and I am in Britain at the moment, downtown is a war zone. I was in work on Thur. and we just kept hearing about constant evacuations from bomb threats. Once we heard that they were evacuating our building. I don't want to sound insensitive, I don't think you have ever experienced anything quite like this unless you lived through WWII. Imagine your best friend walking 5 miles (3 weeks to her due date) to your office because her own office is gone. This friend lost everyone who gave her a baby shower just last week, EVERYONE. <BR> <BR>I think you will find Americans dancing in the streets when we bomb. War brings insanity that is what you were seeing with that dancing. A life is still a life those people have been suffering for a long time in the west bank. I am not approving of that kind of jubilation I just think in the shot that you saw they were expressing pain the same way you will see redneck's doing it here, when we decide to retaliate. I think you are right to say no cause deserves to inflict this kind of carnage, just remember that the next time any government wants war. <BR>

sylvia Sep 16th, 2001 04:40 AM

Kate, Yes I did live through WWII and can remember going to my mother's hometown of Hull and seeing her standing in tears because she literally couldn't see where she was. All her landmarks are gone. Two of her cousins were killed when a bomb dropped on a dancehall and their bodies were never found. Most Europeans have a pretty good idea what New York is suffering right now. <BR>I'm sorry if you thought me insensitive. Believe me, I have friends and family in the US and some of those TV pictures will haunt me forever. <BR>I was just trying to make the point that a terrorist is a terrorist whoever he targets and nobody should support them in any way financially or otherwise.We have a friend (ironically a Catholic) who had her legs blown off by an IRA bomb. That bomb was probably bought using money from the USA. You can imagine that people find that very hard to take, but of course we know that all Irish Americans are not IRA supporters. <BR>


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:59 PM.