TGV warning
 

An example from last month. Credit still not received.<BR>Having booked and paid for a TGV journey, at the station ………………<BR><BR>Customer Hi, I’ve come to collect my tickets, here is my confirmation.<BR>SNCF People don’t normally book tickets on the internet, its much more trouble. It is much better to come to the station yourself, to buy tickets. <BR>Customer Oh, but you do have my tickets ?<BR>SNCF I need your credit card<BR>Customer But I’ve already paid, look at the confirmation<BR>SNCF Oh yes, I’ve found it on the PC, too. You have paid already, but I need your credit card to issue the tickets. Here, I’ve got the tickets ready.<BR>Customer OK, but I’m not paying twice !<BR>SNCF Your credit card is not accepted by your bank<BR>Customer But I’ve already paid<BR>SNCF It’s not a French card is it ?<BR>Customer No Australian<BR>SNCF That might be the problem<BR>Customer My train leaves in 15 minutes. How do I get my tickets ?<BR>SNCF (After making a phone call) I have to have a valid bank card….. do you have another ?<BR>Customer Yes, but I’ve already paid. I’ve got the confirmation, its on your PC too. If you want proof of identity I’ve got passports, driving licenses etc.<BR>SNCF No, it says here (slowly reading the rulebook) I must have the same card that was used to pay on the internet. And this one doesn’t work in my machine. So you can’t have your tickets. It’s quite clear.<BR>Customer Not to me ! And my train leaves in 10 minutes.<BR>SNCF So, what you must do is : give me another card, pay again, fill in a refund form, and I’ll authorise the credit. Might take a few months, but no need to worry. You’ll get the refund.<BR>Customer If I understand this right, You have my tickets and my money, but won’t give me the tickets until I pay again. Then you keep my money for a few months.<BR>SNCF Yes. Fill in this form, give me your other card and you should get the train.<BR>Customer OK, but I’m not happy.<BR>SNCF Good, this card is OK. Sign here, here and here. Here are your tickets and your receipt for the credit request. You need to rush if you are going to catch the train.<BR><BR>

Sorry about your bad experience. <BR>However I believe that the French have a very good system, of course you have paid, they want to be sure they are giving the tickets to the holder of the card with which the tickets were paid.<BR>They explained this to me very clearly when I made reservations on the phone to pick up tickets in France.<BR>When you are properly informed and you know this it is very simple to pick up the tickets in the French railway station, it takes two minutes.

Hi mpprh,<BR><BR> You have my sympathies. May I suggest that you read Mark Twain's &quot;Innocents Abroad&quot;? It will help you to laugh at the experience.

Another thing to remember is that if you buy theatre tickets in London by internet or phone using your credit card, you have to show your card to the clerk when you pick up your tickets.

I also bought my TGV ticket through the internet site of SNCF. To get the tickets at the station, you have to show them the exact credit card you used to pay the ticket. They swipe them through a machine, but only to verify that it is the same card. You won't incur double charges. After the swipe, I got my tickets. It took about 3-5 minutes to do this at the station.

Hi<BR><BR>I was present when this happened to one of my visitors.<BR><BR>In this case he continued to use his card for the rest of the holiday. Either his bank server was down for maintenance or the station card reader was faulty. <BR><BR>The level of customer service was poor !<BR><BR>Peter<BR>

Peter,<BR><BR>I know it won't make it seem any wiser, but United does the same thing when I buy my e-tickets online.

I'm sorry about your bad experience. I know this is too late for suggestions, but I find that buying through Swiss Rail was easier than buying through SNCF. I purchased the tickets via the internet through Swiss Rail. I think they have the same routes as SNCF, but I'm not certain. It's because we needed to travel from France to Switzerland. In any case, Swiss Rail's website is easier to follow and they charge a few $ to mail the tickets to your home. Therefore, you don't need to go to a ticket office in person.

Prior to our recent trip to France, we bought our train tickets through the SNCF web site. We bought our tickets well in advance and were able to get very reduced rates compared to what we would have paid if we bought them in Paris. We had no difficulty in picking up our tickets in Paris at a neighborhood ticket office. Our experience was very positive and we would not hesitate to buy our tickets this way again.

I've never had problems, either. I guess I don't think this is a big problem , and I don't sympathize. The only problem was that mpprh's credit card apparently was defective or the bank's authorization system was down AND that he was in a hurry because he didn't get to the train station on time and apparently is trying to blame SNCF for that. That is an unreasonable complaint, it was your own fault you didn't get there more than a few minutes before the train left, and that's not a very smart thing to do. So, that sheds a different light on the entire post IMO of a big whiner who doesn't plan ahead and tries to blame everybody else for every little mishap on a major trip.<BR><BR>I find it interesting that I probably have little incidents of things that go wrong on my major trips abroad, but none of these are that important that I sit around stewing about them for months and posting them on public internet boards to get people to feel sorry for me or something. Little things go wrong on vacations, if you can't handle it, maybe you should stay at home. My Mastercard didn't work twice in London in August because of some banking network problem or something, but I didn't dwell on this or post about it, I just paid another way for the tickets I had reserved.<BR><BR>I also think people who want all kinds of conveniences, such as buying tickets in advance on the internet from a foreign country, should not be so unreasonable. It is very common for entities to want a valid credit card when you pick up things you've ordered, even when you've paid in advance. It's for fraud reasons. SNCF has a set of standard procedures which work very well, and I'm sure for general management and security reasons they don't want to have a set of standards and then tell their hundreds of clerks who release tickets that they can waive the rules when they think it's okay.

mpprh,<BR><BR>That is just the French way. You must play the game the way they insist and plan in advance to waste time to please them.<BR><BR>That is why the are one of the least productive countries in the world.

Why order them through the Internet? For the past five years I have just gone to the station and purchased my tickets just prior to the train leaving. Never had a problem.

You may have never had a problem but you also may have paid twice as much for the ticket. I prefer the J30's when available to save 50%.

<BR>This to John -<BR>Actually you are wrong - it is one of the most productive countries in the world - personal experience on a great many voyages as well as the various intennational economic bodies (OECD etc) confirm the point.<BR><BR>Yes, they do have their &quot;customs&quot; that many of us N Amercans find annoying - they often close for 2 hour lunches, museums and banks often closed Mondays (but latter open on Saturday mornings) etc but in all my dealings there, including the (in)famous Bureacracy, the service is a lot quicker, friendly and efficient that generally encountered here in N America, with the invariable and superficial &quot;have a nice day&quot; approach. And please tell me where the productivity or customer service is with the all pervasive &quot;voice mail&quot; which is our level of &quot;customer service&quot; these days ? Customer service and productivity indeed !<BR><BR>To top it off, the Europeans (including the French) have a quality of life and vacations that are far superior to anything the average N American can ever hope for. Further proof that their productivity (per hour worked) is well above ours ! <BR><BR>Just look at our railways, public transportation services, postal sservices etc (Do we have 2 deliveries a day plus a delivery on saturday ?) Productivity ? Sure.<BR><BR>+++

Is it my imagination, or is Christina even nastier today than she usually is? <BR><BR>Since Peter lives in France, reprimanding him for whining about the &quot;little things that go wrong on a trip&quot; or advising him that things &quot;are different over there&quot; is stupid and useless. <BR><BR>The fact is, the SNCF people either don't always know how to use the computer system, or there is a lack of synchronization between the website and the humans who man the guichets. <BR><BR>I've had a similar thing happen to me - bought and paid for a ticket through the website (and I do that to save money, often a lot of money), brought the confirmation slip with me, and been told they have no record of my purchase, that my confirmation number doesn't appear in the system. Had to buy a second ticket and get the first payment expunged from my credit card when I got back. On the other hand, I've had no problems the handful of other times I've done the same thing (always with the same credit card, btw).<BR><BR>The system is less than perfect.<BR><BR>

Tony,<BR>You might want to check your data before making such statements. Per the OECD statistics, France is marginal at best when compared to other members. They generally rank in the lower half for productivity gains. <BR><BR>As for competitiveness which applies to this thread, The IMD does not rank them in the top 20 countries. Behind the US &amp; Singapore are the other EU members, except France. <BR><BR>The WEF does rank them 20th in competitiveness along with the following:<BR>- Technology 17th <BR>- Public Institutions 20th<BR>- Macroeconomic Environment 22nd<BR><BR><BR>Good Showing<BR><BR><BR> <BR><BR>

Steve<BR>Thanks yours - on the OECD and other quoted reports the differences between the various standings are very minor indeed - its like Canada being considered as the &quot;best country in the world to live in&quot; in recent years . Yes - if one does not take the climate factor etc into account - plus note that the difference between the top 5 countries is less than 3 points...<BR><BR>Back to productivity - the basis of productivity is output value per hour worked and on this basis a great many countries including France are up there with the US . Baily of the IIE and Solow of MIT in their productivity comparisons (USA basis 100) have Germany and France at over 92, Japan and Uk at between 70-73 (www.clfm.iit.edu/publish/intprod.pdf)<BR>The UK 's own statistics dept shows very<BR>similar standings - with the UK being rather dismal (www.statistics.gov.uk/press_release)<BR>while other reports (www.j-bradford-delong.net/moveable-type/archives) even make a strong case showing why US productivity is well below many other countries...<BR><BR>International competitivity is another matter entirely as it brings currency exchange changes into the picture. If the Euro gains 10% on the dollar, the relative competitivity of the EU against the US declines by 10% in dollar terms (equibus paribus) . Much of the decline in competitiveness of many countries over the last year is a direct result of the weaker dollar .<BR><BR>The fact remains , if france, and Europe were not as productive as they are , they would not have the high standing of living they do - nor would they be maintaining their huge balance of payment surpluses that they almost all are (including France) - and totally contrary to the huge US BOP deficits which are now in the order of 5% of the GNP ...<BR>BRegards<BR>+++<BR>

Hi, I bought my tickets off the SNCF Net and had it sent to me. (I know that they do not send tickets to the US)<BR><BR>It took 3 days for it to arrive. I felt better with the tickets in my hand.<BR><BR>Furthermore, no queueing for the tickets.

Message for Christina<BR><BR>I was not travelling.<BR>I was accompanying the traveller.<BR>We were there 45 minutes before departure.<BR><BR>As for &quot;you should stay at home&quot; .............. I live in France ?<BR><BR>Peter<BR>

I sympathize with the customer in mpprh's account. It sounds as if he likely HAS paid twice for the ticket (the clerk acknowledges it), and will now have to wait for the refund (which the clerk says will possibly take several months---why doesn't this happen immediately? it's a credit card). And it might very well not happen---either way the customer's going to have to be checking his credit card bill for months to come, and at what point precisely does he decide it's been long enough and try to contact SNCF to remedy the situation? And won't that be tremendous fun all the way from Australia?<BR><BR>It's a thrash, pure and simple. Credit card readers fail, cards de-magnetize, whatever. Either SNCF should not post the charge until the customer shows up with the credit card in person (at which point a different card could be offered if the first one fails), or be willing to accept alternative identification for tickets for which the customer holds a receipt.<BR><BR>This sort of idiocy is not reserved for the French, I can assure you. I recently checked out of high end hotel in Colorado where the desk clerk was adamant that I had money coming BACK to me. Hundreds of dollars. As my lodging had been paid for by organizers of the meeting I was attending, and I had not paid for anything at all, I could not have been overcharged. Had I not insisted on the credit NOT being applied to my card I would be still be hassling with sorting it all out (credit card, meeting organizers, hotel, taxes) for some time to come.

mpprh,<BR><BR>Ignore Christina, she often spouts off like she knows it all, when in fact, she obviously does not.

Mpprh, I agree that it was odd of the clerk to indicate that ordering on the Internet is somehow unusual. Nor should it matter of what nationality the card is - ours wasn't French, and the Internet site accepted it, ergo, it will be in the system. <BR><BR>However, the SCNF site does make it clear that when picking up prepaid tickets - of any kind, not just the TGV - one must bring the CC card with which one purchased the tickets as proof that the tickets are indeed one's property. I can only assume that their system is only set up to 'read' credit cards, not passports or driving licenses. And of course, a desk clerk doesn't have authorization or ability to circumvent a computerized system. <BR><BR>We were able to get discounted fares from the SNCF site by paying in advance, and we picked up the tickets in a French rail station using precisely this procedure. We were not double-billed. However, if any of your friends continue to find the SNCF procedure alarming, they should remember that they can always ask their CC company to intercede should any problem arise. I am sorry for your friend's frustrating experience, but it does pay to read the fine print carefully. Better luck next time.<BR><BR>

<BR>Asking for the card is standard, even in the U.S. -- I have to show my card for tickets I order online for my local movie theater, at airlines, etc.

Hi<BR><BR>I got a call from Australia last night.<BR>SNCF has still not refunded the money due.<BR><BR>Peter<BR>http://tlp.netfirms.com<BR>

No, it's not &quot;the French way&quot; - it's a universal technology problem. I recently had to take the train from NYC to Philadelphia, and as I had someone meeting me at the PHL station, I booked ahead over the internet. When I arrived at the station in NYC, the machine didn't recognise my confirmation code, and refused to issue the tickets. I went to the customer service desk, and was told to go stand in the 'handicapped line' at the regular ticket counter to see a supervisor for help. When I did so, some rude American (sorry, but he was) got into a frenzy and started screaming at me: &quot;we all have to stand in line ... we're all waiting here ... &quot; etc etc in a really shrill voice. I tried to explain the situation to him - not that it was any of his business, but he semed so interested - but he rudely turned away as soon as he saw he couldn't intimidate me. <BR><BR>Anyway, when I was about 10 minutes away from missing my train and there were still several people in line in front of me, I decided to take a chance and go back and try the machine again. This time, it gave me someone else's tickets - but also my own! I tried to give the first person's tickets back, but neither the NY service desk nor the ticket collectors on the train would take them. Finally, when I got to Philadelphia, the Customer Service people in the PHL train station did make a note of the mis-issued tickets, and promise to refund the other party - who had by then no doubt either paid for a new seat or missed her train. <BR><BR>I never had these problems in Europe, although have taken European trains far more often than American trains. I guess it just depends where you have bad luck!

Christina you really sound like an asshole. Are you? When I guess you are, bitch!

Peter, I'm sorry that your friend is still having problems. Is he trying to get the first credit card company to post a credit to his account, or is he trying to get the refund from SNCF directly? I'd go for the first route, which would in effect transfer the problem of getting SNCF to cough up to the credit card company.<BR><BR>Rereading your story reminds me that there is some risk of inconvenience when using these &quot;pay-in-advance&quot; options. As Susanb points out, technology is wonderful, except when it ain't. : - ) I guess everyone has to decide for themselves if the discount generally offered to pay-in-advance customers is worth this risk. <BR><BR>Wishing your friend luck.

Hi<BR><BR>And still waiting for the credit !<BR><BR>Peter<BR>

Is there some reason your friend didn't call his/her credit card company immediately to dispute this charge? In the US, you only have 60 days to do this; if it's the same for the cardholder, it might be too late...<BR><BR>Andrew<BR>

Hi<BR><BR>He still has not received the refund.<BR><BR>Peter<BR>http://tlp.netfirms.com<BR>

Well, having just returned from France and having purchased my train tickets online prior (we were traveling on the weekends during the French school winter holidays), I can say that the SNCF booking made it VERY CLEAR that the credit card that had been used to purchase the tickets had to be presented at the time of pick-up to ensure that the person picking up the tickets was the person who purchased them. This was regardless of whether you used an agent or an automated machine to pick up the tickets.<BR><BR>The clerk swiped my card at the station and I was NOT double-charged. Peter, I think the problem in your friend's case was that your friend did not understand that he needed to present the card and that it needed to be swiped at pick-up to ensure security.

What would happen if, for example, your credit card was stolen or canceled? I'm dealing with that right now, as the Intercontinental Hotel in Vienna made seven false charges on my credit card while I was there in early March. The card had to be canceled as a result (and the Intercontinental Hotel is NOT being very helpful about the matter--I won't recommend them again to anyone!)

Hi BTilke,<BR><BR> What is the problem with the charges from the Intercontinental? <BR><BR> Are they insisting that it was you? Do they have a signature to back up the charge? <BR><BR> Is your credit card company investigating the matter?

From my understanding, he DID present the card that he originally used, but that when SNCF swiped the card for confirmation, it didn't work. Thus their requirement for a different card . . .<BR><BR>This type of situation is pretty annoying to me, because it seems that a passport that matches the name on the card should be plenty of confirmation of identity. Swiping the card shouldn't be necessary, unless that magnetic stripe is to be considered more reliable than the U.S. Customs agency.<BR><BR>The most annoying thing about it all is that recently I purchased airfare, railpasses and made hotel reservations for June using my credit card, and then I got a card with a much better rate and transferred the balances. But I still have to keep the old account open, and drag the card around with me even though I will be using the new card. Credit card companies entice us to switch brands to save money, but we pay for it in inconvenience.

ndf321<BR>That makes more sense! I agree that it is really annoying to have to keep a card so it can be swiped on the spot - proof of ID should be enough. I really hope that Peter's friend gets his money back.<BR><BR>Peter - thank you for keeping us abreast of your friend's situation and for all the Uzes recommendations - we visited Uzes this month and it was lovely.