Take 2: Scotland Itinerary
 

Ok, my first attempt was a bust. I wasn't prepared and you all call me out on it. So I slunk away into the shadows with my tail between my legs ready to take on research. The truth of the matter is that I am out of practice. With having kids the last 4 yrs, I haven't been able to take a vacation, let alone have time to research or plan one. Nevertheless, the time has come! A child-free vacation, and I may have gotten ahead of myself. So apologies to all, but at least now I know who the big guns are in this forum.

I have done some research and reorganized my itinerary. This one is most likely not the final version as well. But with the more I read, the more I change it. My husband and I are not big on museums. We are big on scenery, ruins, good food, good drinks, good people. We will be flying into Glasgow on the morning of a Sunday in June (undecided which Sunday).

Sun: Arrive in Glasgow, hop on the West Highland Line, arrive in Arrochar
Mon: Lake Lomond (we are lake people)
Tues: Hop back on the West Highland Line to Mallaig, take ferry to Skye, rent car
Wed: Explore Skye
Thurs: Morning explore Skye, return car, hope on train to Inverness, rent another car there and drive to Dufftown
Fri: Whisky experimentation in Dufftown
Sat: Drive down from Dufftown to Glasgow along the castle trail stopping at (Fraser, Craigievar, Dunnottar)
Sun: Spend last night in Glasgow and depart in afternoon

Is this too strenuous with the change in car rentals and the one day drive through the castle trail? I know I am trying to fit a lot in. My original thought was to start at Glasgow with a car rental and go backwards (than the itinerary above) on the same car but, firstly, we don't want to drive THAT much and, secondly, I would really like that long train ride.

Fire away!

>>So I slunk away into the shadows with my tail between my legs ready to take on research<<

aah -- buck up :) We've ALL planned a few mind boggling itineraries from time to time!

I have two games on (NFL and NBA) and trying to multitask at the moment. But just my first quick comment . . . >>Sat: Drive down from Dufftown to Glasgow along the castle trail stopping at (Fraser, Craigievar, Dunnottar)<<. is totally unrealistic and verges on impossible. That would be a good 3 days 4 night trip (2/3 if you were in a real time crunch). Just the straight drive with no stops is nearly 6 hours. Dunnottar requires a MINIMUM of two hours if only because of the hike out and back, Craigievar = about an hour, Castle Fraser a little more - so 'could be done in 2 full days but you'd be missing an awful lot in the same areas.

You have 6 usable full days and are trying to see places and thing hundreds of miles apart on both sides of the country. In your calculations figure averaging 35 mph - and much less than that on Skye.

IMO you have so little time you REALLY need to cut way back. The trains and Skye plus breaking your journey on Loch Lomond is really all you have time for. OR re-think everything

If your castle trail back to Glasgow is unrealistic, consider flying home from Inverness. Then you could spend one more day exploring the area--there's enough nearby to fill your final day without long drives.

My home airport is JFK. I found reasonable flights to and from Inverness via Dublin on Aer Lingus.

Flying out if Inverness is an option but doesn't save them any time. Driving back to INV is just as difficult unless they add time. Dufftown to the the castles mentioned and back to Inverness airport is almost exactly the same drive time as down to GLA -- it is 6 hours car time no matter how you slice it. Since one wouldn't want to do that drive the same day as the flight out (of either airport) they'd have the same time investment.

we were posting the same time -- one thing you need to understand about basing an entire itinerary around Skye, which is what you are describing . . . You may or may not see ANYTHING. They don't call it the "misty Isle' for nothing. I visited Skye 3 times before I saw a darned thing. First trip (in June) it was raining sideways and I never stepped out of the car except to run into my B&B an back out. Second time (in August) it rained some but between the fog and midges I still didn't see much at all. Third time was wonderful (also in June) and I've been back a few times since (half of which had nasty weather).

Basically is is a long way to go on the off chance you'll have decent weather. Besides - I personally prefer Mull)

Another fan of Mull. You can boat trips to Staffa and Iona and to the Treshnish islands for a bit of “puffin therapy”.
As you are arriving in Glasgow, may I suggest a trip to Arran. It is truly described as Scotland in miniature. It’s got mountains, lochs and two distilleries.
it also has surprisingly good food

Just to upset the whole apple cart, I prefer Orkney to the western isles, no religious nutcases, lots of nice people but again the islands are out in the Atlantic and the weather can be bad. But you present itin is fine just a wee bit too tight as janisj says.

You do need to recognise that the roads are slow, not that you cannot drive fast but the roads are narrow, sometimes with passing spaces and all the other idiots want to look out their windows. So an average of 35 is a high speed for many of the roads you have identified.

I mentioned using Inverness to fly home and pending the final day nearby INSTEAD OF seeing that list of castles. The OP might find sights interesting to them near Inverness and skip those castles.

ellenem We wouldn't be able to fly home from Inverness. We are getting the flights via miles we have collected so to-and-from Glasgow is our only option.

janisj I completely understand the possibility of bad weather but June is recommended as the driest time to visit. The weather is always something that you just cross you fingers for and hope that it works out in your favor when traveling. Especially when things need to be booked well in advanced. Why do you prefer Mull to Skye? Less crowds? Aside question, is the weather usually better on the East coast of the highlands (more dry I mean)?

MissPrism I have read about Arran and wanted to include it but I thought that if we want to include Skye then we couldn't do both. Can you get to and around Arran with no car? How long would we need?

>>but June is recommended as the driest time to visit. <<

By whom? There is no 'driest time' really, but as you say there is ALWAYS a chance for bad weather. If you had say 3 weeks to leisurely tour around you could play the 'wait out the weather game'. But you don't have the luxury.

Yes - in general the east coast is cooler/drier, the west coast is a little warmer but wetter and more windy.

Re Mull vs Skye -- Mull is much less crowded. Lovely scenery. Iona/Staffa. etc. Skye used to be much less crowded but has become enormously popular (overly so) and now one really has to book months in advance and the narrow roads which were just slow before are now sloooooow with all the lookie loos stopping in the middle of the road ro take photos - and parking has become an issue at popular view points.

This is more than 2 years old and things have got worse since then https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-40874488

Arran - or the Castle Trail or Fife or Dunnottar or the Northern Highlands or Orkney or the Borders or the SW or the Trossachs or Edinburgh or Argyll or Ayrshire or the Whisky Trail or any of scores of other regions . . . Are ALL worth visiting. But instead of us throwing out even more options - you just need to pick two general 'districts' because that is all you really have time for -- you have 6 days plus a little time in Glasgow so say three nights on Skye if you must, and two nights somewhere like the Trossachs or the southern Highlands or you name it. Then back to Glasgow. You would need 3 nights on Skye because it will take you just about a full day to get there so 3 nights will give you 2 days which is enough to scratch the surface.

If you chose Mull instead you could get away with two nights simply because it is a bit smaller and while the roads are just as slow - there are less crowds.

janisj Okay, I hear your. Would going earlier help? Like middle-end of May? Or am I then going up against worse weather statistics? I know I am probably looking for a non-existent sweet spot. If we cut out the eastern Highlands then it would give us an extra day on Skye (4 days, 3 nights). I will look more into Mull now though.

If we have 2 nights in Glasgow, is a day trip to Arran possible or better to use the time more wisely and explore Glasgow?

>>Or am I then going up against worse weather statistics?<<

OK - throw ALL weather statistics out the window :) The UK is an Island(s) The weather changes just about every single day. Sometimes it is nicer in April than in July or vice versa. You can have 3 or even 4 seasons in a day or two. The only 'given' is the daylight hours are longest in June.

>> . . . it would give us an extra day on Skye (4 days, 3 nights)<<

Sorry but it doesn't work that way. to get 4 days in a place requires 5 nights. Three nights will net you TWO full days.

IMO, Scotland is one of those places where one says there is no bad weather, only wrong clothing for the conditions. You need to be prepared year-round for rain, wind, and everything else. Even if it isn't raining at any given time, the unpaved ground may be too wet for most street shoes.

As my relatives in Seattle say, if you wait for "good" weather, you'll never leave the house.

The last time we were in Scotland was in the first two weeks of June. (We only explored Edinburgh to Speyside and only went as far west as Callander.) It was lovely, but it did rain every single day. Most days just a brief, light shower, but a couple of days it rained the better part of the day, sometimes hard.

The ferries to Arran take foot passengers. There are buses on the island, but if you are reasonably fit, you could hire a bike https://www.arranbikehire.com

I want to come back to this opening statement on priorities and relate it to your plans on the ground. First, let's eliminate the good drinks and good people issues - those are everywhere. Good food... well, that's everywhere too, but there's also food that's - y'know...

But with time limits like you those you face, I think it would behoove you to focus on the other elements, and pick an itinerary that offers the maximum "yield" in a relatively compact geographic area. Including Skye complicates things considerably, due to the time required to access the island, as well as by its size and popularity. It's for this reason that I would join the Mull bandwagon, but including more of Argyll in the process.

Google the places on this map - https://goo.gl/maps/9oTG78StziR8xEvq6

The idea here is to respect your desire for a train ride, but combine it with a "base" in the Highlands where you can pick up and drop off a rental car while having immediate access to the sorts of things you list - scenery, good food and drink, ruins, etc. Oban is the place I have in mind for this. You can reach it on a branch of the West Highland Line from Glasgow, and it's a good place to use as a mainland base from which to visit other (relatively) nearby places. While there are no Oban branches of any major or international car hire companies, there are a couple of local ones (same as Fort William) which would give you access to all the marvelous destinations within a short driving distance from the town.

Let me describe a couple of these to illustrate.

Ruins: A few miles south of Oban is the village of Kilmartin. In Kilmartin Glen, just below the village, one can find numerous prehistoric sites - standing stones, stone circles, burial cairns, etc. - speaking to the fact that this area has been occupied for thousands and thousands of years. In the village there's a wee museum containing carved gravestones with Celtic designs and more antiquities. Up the road are a ruined castle and the site of the capital of the ancient kingdom of Dalriada, In just a couple of hours around Kilmartin you can absorb more ancient and medieval history than you can in days in other parts of the country. Plus, it's drop-dead gorgeous.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...7ed7486b9a.jpg

Castles: On the coast north of Oban is Castle Stalker, used in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, and as you approach Mull on the ferry from Oban you'll pass Duart Castle, with a site fully as iconic as the famous Eilean Donan castle (much) farther to the north.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...59f54e0a71.jpg


Whisky: There are distilleries on the mainland in Oban, and also on Mull, in the pretty town of Tobermory.

Food: Loch Fyne, with the pretty town of Inveraray (home of the Campbells; their florid castle was Cousin Shrimpy's place in Downton Abbey) is famous for its fish and seafood. You can eat very well indeed in Argll.

Access: From Oban you can take day tours to Iona and Staffa as well as Mull; or with a car you could explore the area up to the Road to the Isles (Glenfinnan Viaduct for your steam train pictures) or to Glen Coe or stunning Glen Etive. In general, a one- or two-base itinerary (Oban and maybe Mull for a couple of nights) would be terrific in the area, and you'd still have a great train ride coming and going.

And . . . Kilchurn Castle

Oban isn't one of my favorites . . . But IF I had to choose between staying in Oban or staying in Ft William Oban would win hands down. No question.

Oh I agree, but Oban is at the end of a rail line and on arrival day (US > GLA > Oban) it could be a decent place to crash for the night.

I know that it is some sort of traveler "must-do" thing these days to see Skye, but like several other places, it seems to be loved too much. We really loved Arran. We wandered around Machrie Moor completely alone. Great restaurants and Scottish gin- as well as whisky! Went to a Ceilidh. Ran into no other Americans; well one expat living in Europe. Whisky distillery. Local cheese. Bicyclists everywhere. People hiking up Goatfell. Heck, they had a race up the darn thing.

You can't see all of Scotland in a week.;)

Thank you so much for all of your help. I have decided to take your advice and cut out Skye all together. The train ride also seemed pointless if we weren't going to be going all the way up to Mallaig anyway.

We would now fly into Glasgow, drive to Inveraray, spend the night (to enjoy Loch Fyne and the seafood), then continue on to Oban via Kilmartin. Once in Oban, we would stay and do trips to Mull, Iona, Staffa (that's one trip), then drive up to see Glen Etive, Glencoe, and Glenfinnan (can these three be done in one day? or not recommended?). After we would drive back down to Glasgow, give back our car and take a trip out to Arran (with one night stay). I am trying to include all your recommendations!

Since we are driving, would there be a better "base" now instead of Oban? Should we stay a night in Glencoe village instead? or maybe some other quaint town with beautiful views that you wouldn't find in a travel guide? I know Oban would be necessary for Mull, Iona, and Staffa but we can relocate after. I am just thinking that Glen Etive, Glencoe, and Glenfinnan (with the various castles) is too much to do in one day.

I'm dashing out so can't post in detail . . . but two very quick things

Don't attempt to drive on your arrival day and I would definitely take the car over to Mull and stay on the island two nights and not try it as a day trip from Oban.

More later today

janisj I hope you didn't forget me (-:

Trying to post - keep losing posts to a nasty spam ad Fodors is 'trying' to eliminate.

I'm not 100% clear are you flying out on Sunday? From your OP it says spend the night and fly out in the afternoon so is that Sat night or Sun Night? For now I'll assume Saturday night.

So you have Mon through Sat plus a few jet lagged hours on your arrival Sunday - so 6 usable days. I do like Arran -- but on such a short trip I would not try to squeeze it in.

From a Sun arrival to a Sun departure I'd probably do something like:

• Sun/Mon - Arrive at GLA and stay 2 nights in Glasgow. That really only give you one day in the city. (2 nights Glasgow)
• Tues/Wed - Collect car out at GLA Tues morning and drive up the west side of Loch Lomond - stop in Luss for breakfast and carry on toward Glencoe. En route take the short detour to Killin / Falls of Dochart and detour in and back out of Glen Etive. Stay 2 nights in Glencoe. On Wed you'd have to to explore both Glencoe and to drive out to Glenfinnan and back. (2 nights Glencoe)
• Thurs/Fri - drive up to Oban an take the ferry to Mull. Stay on Mull. (2 nights on Mull)
• Sat - Ferry back to Oban and explore Kilmartin and Invereray en route back to GLA. Drop car Sat evening and stay at or near the airport, fly out on Sunday.

The total 'car time' on Saturday is longest - about 3.5 hours plus ferry time and sightseeing stops. But you can take as long as you want to meander to GLA since the rental agencies are open late.

Meant to add -- if your flight out is after noon or 1PM Sunday -- then you can keep the car one additional night and stay that night somewhere along Loch Lomond. In that case, I'd not stop at Luss on Tuesday and carry on to Killin for breakfast.

Then you could stay in Luss on Sat night. Luss to GLA is only about 45 minutes.

. . . also meant to add - if you really do want to include Arran -- then skip either Mull or the Glencoe/Glen Etive leg (I personally would keep Glencoe AND Mull)

So I managed to get more days, we will be flying in Sun at 11am and leaving Wed at 1pm (that's approx 10 days). We will be staying in Glasgow on the day we fly in but we aren't going to spend much time in the city so just dinner and drive out the next morning. I wanted to focus more on Argyll and fit Arran in.

I was thinking one night in Inveraray, then drive to Oban via Kilmartin and do the whisky distillery tour (spend one night), next day visit Mull (stay 2 nights) then get back and go to Glencoe for 2 nights or stay in Oban for 2 nights (and drive up to Glencoe, Glen Etive, Glenfinnan). Afterwards drive to Arran via ferry, spend 2 nights and then catch the ferry back to Glasgow on Tues (again just dinner and sleep) and fly out next day on Wed.

Is it manageable to drive from Glencoe to Arran, google maps is showing 4 hrs but with the way everyone describes the slow traffic will that be 6 hrs of actual driving (plus a lunch stop)?

Google is probably wrong by 20% or so, but the four hours assumes you arrive at the ferry terminal just as the boat is about to leave, you're the last one on, etc. This isn't realistic.

If Arran is a must-do, then I would probably rearrange the route to one that looks like this - https://goo.gl/maps/5i7fVGgG2QqM2vtA6 . This would start with Arran, then use the Lochranza - Claonaig ferry to get to the Kintyre Peninsula, then up to Kilmatin and Oban, Mull, then Glencoe and Glen Etive before ending back in Glasgow. Here's the Calmac website where you can see summer ferry schedules - https://www.calmac.co.uk/calmac-summer-timetables

Of course you could do this route in reverse.

Dashing out -- but you really can't use any on-line calculators for drive times. Not even adding waits for ferries etc. Usually one has to add 25% minimum (and that is best case) to nearly 100% to the drive times. Especially in rural areas where there can be livestock on the road or you get stuck behind a caravan (travel trailer). Off the motorways (and you won't be on any motorways except for a few miles directly around Glasgow . . . plan on averaging about 35 mph. And there will be photo ops around every bend in the road so actual drives end up taking even more time.

Gardyloo Thanks for the tip! I haven't even considered doing the trip in reverse and it seems to make more sense. and that way we can take more time on the drives, janisj yes, I am definitely adding time for stops and sightseeing, I think the new layout is more relaxed. Final itinerary (hopefully):

Sun: arrive at 11 am, get to Glasgow hotel, dinner/relax
Mon: early AM begin trek to Arran, explore
Tues: explore Arran some more
Wed: Drive to Oban with a stop at Kilmartin (wondering if we would have time for the distillery tour in Oban after?), spending the night in Oban
Thurs: Ferry to Mull, explore
Fri: Iona/Staffa
Sat: Ferry back to Oban, drive to Glencoe (stop at Caste Stalker)
Sun: explore Glencoe, Glen Etive, Glenfinnan
Mon: drive to Luss with at stop by Inveraray for lunch
Tues: explore Luss (maybe boat trip)
Wed: early AM drive from Luss to Glasgow airport (flight is at 1pm) I think if we leave Luss around 8am that gives us plenty of time.

Thank you for talking me down from over-cramming our 10 days in Scotland. It just all looks so amazing that you want to see it all. Alas, our eyes are bigger than our stomachs, they say.

That seems workable -- thanks to the added days.

If you are staying say in Brodick - then the drive from Arran to Kilmartin via the Lochranze ferry (It has been tears since I took that ferry and I'm not sure how many times a day it sails - You can look that up on the CalMac website (I will when I get a chance) will take 2.5 to 3 hours plus the ferry time. Then you'll was a few hours at least for the Kilmartin area. From Kilmartin to Oban takes a little over an hour, so making it to Oban in time for the distillery tour is very possible since at that time of year it stays open til 7:30 (I'd want to be there by 5:30-ish)

Your departure on Wed you've actually been 'too generous' with your times. . . . Luss to GLA is a really short drive. Typically around half an hour so say 45 mins to account for possible congestion around the airport. The rental cars are right outside the terminal. So I certainly wouldn't plan leaving Luss that early (or you could do some sightseeing along Loch Lomond in the morning). With a 1PM fight I'd want the car dropped and be in the terminal by about 11AM