Still thinking about your 6 nights in Switzerland that are unplanned with Lucerne in the middle for the music festival. From Munich, you could do:

2 nights Appenzell area (very Heidi and Swiss, could stop in St Gallen or Lake Constance/Bodensee for a few hours, a night, or do a day trip)

2 nights Guarda area, Guarda is a lovely small village with painted houses which are very rare in Switzerland, it is in a gorgeous mountain area with great walking. You could then drive to Lucerne, there are several ways, some longer than others over passes, some on valley floors. On way would be past Lake Wallensee which is very pretty and you could stop here for a bit.

After Lucerne and Wengen, go on to Colmar or the Schuffhausen area for 2 nights.

By the fastest routes (i.e. highways along valley floors), none of these drives would be more than 3 hours and most would be less than that. Distances are not that far.

It looks like you have settled on the Lake Geneva area for part of the trip, that is a good choice as well, how are you breaking up the trip? Have to say I am not a fan of Montreux, it is too big and crowded and not really charming. While Chillon Caslte is excellent and should definitely be seen, it is not in the town itself, but quite a bit outside, and the old town area of Montreux is not that interesting, and I know that charming villages are part of your interest. You might look at Vevey which is smaller and has a very lovely old town or Morges or Nyon or even Lausanne whch although large does have a very interesting old town. I don't know the Masson, but if it is near the Chillon then it would be well away from the city so should be quiet; however you may then be too far away to walk or get a train or ferry to anything, as there is not much along the esplanade at the castle end of the lake in terms of restaurants and it would be a bit of a walk into town. I am a huge fan of the L'emitage, mentioned by Swnadav, and they have an excellent restaurant. It is on the other end of Montreux and is quite quiet, but you can walk into Montreux quickly if you want. Take a look at http://www.ermitage-montreux.com/ Another good choice albeit more modern would be the Kempinski up above Vevey this has stunning alp and lake views and an outdoor pool (which you daughter might enjou for a nice change and in Augsut) and is in the vineyards for walks. Take a look at http://www.kempinski.com/en/index.htm

As for Zurich, the Sonne is a good choice, it has one of my favourite restaurants outside Zurich, I have not stayed there but did see some of the rooms which looked lovely. Definitely ask for a lake view room. I don't know that I would stay at the Adler on a weekend night in August in any event, as they don't have air conditioning and in August that part of the old town can be quite noisy (I used to live quite close and did not have air conditioning myself and Friday and Saturday nights in summer were always a challenge. . .). The weekend of the Street Parade there is no question that I would NOT stay there. Someplace further away with air conditioning like the Marriott might be the only place I would consider, but the Sonne is even a better choice.

Assuming you are dropping the car in Glattbrugg, I gave pretty detailed instructions to Budman as to how to find the street on which the BMW dealer is located, and how to get into Zurich from there, you might search my response to Budman; if you can't find them I can repost. Assuming you want to get to Kuschnacht by train from Glattbrugg take a look at the schedules at rail.ch for schedules, you will have to change at the main train station in Zurich (the Hautbanhauf). If you wanted to take a taxi from Glattbrugg to Kuscnacht, this would run you about US$100.

I would drop off the car as early as you can on Friday, get to your hotel and try to see as much of Zurich as you can on Friday, as IMO you won't really want to be in Zurich on Saturday. It will be light until almost 11 pm, so you will be able to see a lot and have a late dinner and get back to your hotel. (You might consider driving to Kuscnacht late Thursday night, as it is light so late, traffic around Zurich will be very light in the evening compared to the morning rush hour, and I know the hotel has parking. You could then drop the car off Friday morning and go by train right into Zurich, sans luggage. It shouldn't be more than a 20-30 minute drive from Kuscnacht to Glattbrugg.)

Note that to start sightseeing in Zurich you do not have to take the train to the main train station (the Hautbanhof), but could get off at station before, at Stadelhofen, which is near the lake and at the beginning of the Neiderdorf/Oberdorf area at the southeast end of the old town, quite close to the Grossmunster cathedral. You could start a walking tour of the old town from here. A map of the old town area would be helpful. Conversely, you could have dinner in this part of the old town and take a train back to Kuscnacht from the Stadelholfen train station. I can recco some restaurants in this neighbourhood.

On Saturday, rather than going into Zurich you can take a ferry ride down the lake, stopping in for a few hours at Rapperswil to see the castle and the town. There is a ferry pier basically in front of the Sonne so it is easy to get around by ferry. Take a look at www.rapperswil.ch, click on the UK flag for the English version. There are also some good walks in the Kuscnacht area, which has some vineyards as well as rolling countryside, and you should be able to rent bicycles for free at the train station and you can bicycle along the lake front (it is flat).

If you want to go into Zurich on Saturday, you can perhaps take the ferry and see how crowded things look as your approach Zurich and if it looks like the zoo I expect, you can stay on the ferry. The Street Parade takes place along the waterfront and along Limmatquai, one of the main streets in the old town, but spills out all over, and many people also participate in their private boats on the lake and in the river. I don't quite know how to describe the chaos of the Street Parade, not to be paranoid, but I would not let your daughter go by herself and if you go, don't let anyone give her anything to eat or drink that you don't buy yourself from a stand or shop (there have been incidents in previous years of kids drugging drinks and food).

I would have dinner at the Sonne hotel on Saturday as they have an excellent restaurant.

If you go to Colmar, a hotel and/or restaurant I would highly recco is:

Hotel les tetes
19 rue de Testes
F 68000 Colmar
tel: 33 03 89 24 43 43
http://www.la-maison-des-tetes.com/home_us.html

Thanks for all the help. I am glad that you both like the Romantik Seehotel Sonne. It sounds like the best choice. I didn't notice that the Adler didn't have AC which at least drowns out some of the noise at night. I also like the idea of going to Rapperswil and taking the ferry to Zurich. I actually saved the directions you gave to budman to drop the car. I think we will drop the suitcases at the hotel first and then drop the car and then we can sightsee the rest of the day.
I am glad you like the Hotel les tetes since I have a reservation there already. I thought to spend one night in Stein am Rhine and then colmar and then Obernai.
We have 2 days after Wengen which was when I was thinking about going to the Lake Geneva area...I really like the idea of staying alittle outside the city...like at the Hotel Masson. I am going to email the L'emitage and see what they have to offer.

Where would you stay in the Guarda area. I could go there for 2 nights. Would that be too rushed?

In Guarda I have stayed several times at the Hotel Meisser and would definitely recommend it, very charming Swiss style, lots of wood, painted furniture and ceilings, etc. Take a look at http://www.hotel-meisser.ch. Also go to Karenbrown.com for other recocos in Guarda and the area (that is where I found the Meisser).

I don't think 2 nights is too rushed at all. After you have seen the village, if you don't want to do a lot of walking, which is the principle summer activity, you could even take train trips or drive to other towns like Scuol or Tarasp (which has a castle) if you wanted to (leave the car behind, as the little red trains are so cute). The train to Scuol takes less than 20 minutes, a pretty ride along the valley, and then no hassle with parking, etc in town.

I have been looking into the Engadin area. The Hotel Meisser sounds great, but has a 3 night minimun which would mean shorting elsewhere...but doable. The Schlosshotel Chastè has also replied as has the Posthotel Engiadina. Any thoughts on these hotels and which town is better to stay in? Any other hotels to look into?? If I go to the Engadin I won't go to lake Geneva area.

Hi cparris,

Here's a link to a trip report that features the Posthotel Engiadina and Zuoz:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34428708

Here's a link to the photos from that trip: http://community.webshots.com/album/79095617dhIGaT

Finally, here's a link to Ingo's recent trip to St Moritz (with pictures): http://www.worldisround.com/articles/229817/index.html

Maybe hunting around the descriptions and the photos will give you a good idea of what you're looking for --

Hope this helps!

s

Well, I am narrowing it down to staying in Schuol or Tarasp, Zuoz, or Pontresina. I would have liked Guarda, but the HOtel Messier has a 3 day minimum. Which hotel that you have stayed at in these areas has the best food. I find that is a good way to decide. They all sound like they have good hiking. Which is the most charming village? Thanks.

I agree that 3 days in Guarda would be too much. Can you be wait listed at the Meisser for less than the 3 day minimum? Usually about 30 days out, reservations start to clear out, as that is when cancellation fees have to be paid, and the hotel may then have some free nights for less than the 3 night minimum. Its worth asking. I think Guarda is the most charming village in Switzerland (let alone the Engadine), but it is kind of a personal thing. It is the smallest of all that you mention, and has the most scraffito buildings. I think Tarasp is next most charming in the Engadine, as it has the little castle on the hill. Pontresina is in a very, very wide valley and would be a very different experience than the narrow valley where Guara and Tarasp are located where the mountains are at your feet. It is not really a charming village experience, it is a larger town, and is more of a staging are for serious walking in the area. There are several very large hotels here that take away from a village experience.

I have eaten at the Chastè and the food was good. It is really hard to get a bad meal in Switzerland in my experience, so I think you would be fine at any of them really.

It is hard to say which village is the most beautiful. Guarda is probably best preserved, has a great location on a sunny terrace with scenic views, but it is quite small.

I think Ardez and Sent are close to Guarda, but their hotels/restaurants are not in the four-star range.

Tarasp has the wonderful castle, but is IMO not as beautiful as the others. The Hotel Chaste is a gem, but its location is quite isolated.

I think Zuoz is your best choice. Stay in the Posthotel Engiadina - my fellows recommended it. The village is very beautiful too, larger than Guarda and a bit livelier. From there it is also closer to the natural wonders of mountains and glaciers and lakes up the river beyond St. Moritz (Sils or Pontresina).

Honestly, if you have two weeks in Switzerland it is not enough to spend only two nights in the Engadin. I would recommend four nights, three is a good compromise.

Well, I think the Schlosshotel Chastè and the Posthotel Engiadina are right now my two top choices. I was looking at the pictures and find Tarasp looks very nice. Both of the hotels look good. I guess it is just deciding what location is better and really the prices are comparable.

I forgot to ask. What is the town of Schoul like?

Checkout this website (in English). It should give you all the info you need.
http://sapo.myswitzerland.com/en/infra.cfm?rkey=439

There's a nice spa in the middle of the town. It was too expensive for our family so we went to the public outdoor swimmingpool (located above the main part of the city.) Much less expensive but certainly not as nice as the spa.

As I said before, the main difference is probably that Tarasp and the Hotel Chaste are located quite isolated. The bus from Scuol runs every hour (if I recall correctly) to Tarasp, the hotel is located on a hill (10 min. walk) half way up to the castle in a tiny hamlet (just a few houses). I am sure they offer a transfer service by hotel bus.

To give you an idea of Scuol here is a link to my page on VT:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/a8885/

Scuol is a beautiful little town, split into an upper and a lower part (both are full of nice old houses), inbetween the main street - rather modern, with cafes, shopping, spa.

You cannot go wrong with either. Too little time for beautiful Switzerland!

I was looking at the Scuol web page. They said that 5 hotels give you a free pass to the spa. THe Hotel Belvedere, Hotel Astras, Hotel Chasa Belvair, Hotel Crusch Alba. The Belvedere looks nice but much different than say the Schlosshotel Chastè which seems to have more character? Does anyone know of these other hotels ( and if the restaurants are good) Ingo I liked your pics thanks.

Also has anyone heard of the ROMANTIK MAIENSÄSSHOTEL GUARDA VAL? It is located in Lenzerheide-Sporz

Well, After thinking and also looking at driving times in viamichelin I realized that going to the Engadin might be crazy. From Wengen to Scoul is like 300km or 4hr.36. Does that sound right? From Scoul to Zurich is 200km so thats alittle better. I am looking into somewhere closer...maybe Kandersteg which seems to have some good hikes.

cparris - it makes no sense IMO to relocate from Wengen to Kandersteg for a couple of days. The hassle of packing/unpacking, check in/out, dragging around the luggage ... just for a few km distance and no significant change of scenery.

Yes, the Engadin is quite a distance from Wengen. The question is if you want to have a different experience in culture, food, scenery etc. If yes, you need to drive some hours. If no, stay in Wengen.

Re: hotels in Scuol - I think the Astras is the best choice of those you mentioned. The owner has changed recently and it was completely renovated. Looks pretty now with much wood inside. There is even a direct access to the spa.

You do have a point. It will be very simular in Kandersteg. I looked at the Astra and it does look nice. I am sure my daughter would love the spa too. Ahh, such decisions. In kandersteg I thought the Landgasthof Ruedihus looked very nice. I read your trip report ingo about that area. You still like the Engadin better though??

Kandersteg is about a 45 minute drive from Lauterbrunnen (where you park the car for Wengen) so you can easily make a day trip there for hiking from Wengen, do not bother moving to Kandersteg to stay for a night. The scenery is much the same, albeit without the Eiger, Monch and Jungfrau looming over you.

As for the drive, Map Quest Europe says it is only 3.5 hours, and when I compare their times with drive times that I know myself, I find them accurate. Also, a lot of this drive is very beautiful, and I thought the point of your holiday was a driving holiday with the new BMW which you were dropping off in Zurich. You have the new car, the great Alpine passes and the time, you should take advantage of it, IMO.

Finally, your original post said you wanted charming villages. For this you need the Engadine, IMO. There are NOT a lot of charming villages in the Bernese Oberland. There are some absolutely beautiful mountain areas, but Wengen and Murren are not charming villages with little wooden chalets and cobblestone streets. Wengen is fairly modern, it does have some nice wooden ski chalets, esp if you walk out toward the downhill skiing finish line, but it does not have the charm of a place like Guarda. Murren is about 10 houses and 5 hotels. Brienz and the other lake towns really have no charm at all, their charm is their location on the lake with the mountains in the back. Do not get me started on Interlaken, let's just say it has the only Hooters restaurant in Europe. Lucerne has some lovely areas around the bridge and their old town, but it is not in the mountains and is surrounded by concrete suburbs. Even Thun which has a nice old town, is not as interesting as some of the Engadine towns. You need to decide what it is you want to see and do. If you want off the beaten track, really charming little villages, beautiful mountains, and great walks/hikes, then you want the Engadine. If you want to see some beautiful mountains AND all the other American tourists, then just stick to Lucerne and the Jungfrau valley. That is where they will be.

Actually I think you might be right. I have been looking at the road from Wengen to Scoul. It seems a very beautiful drive if we take the road to Andermatt across the Susten Pass and then take the Oberalp pass to Chur.On Viamichelin this route is like 6 hours. I should look at map quest. I may need to liberate another day though. Two days may not be enough. I like the idea of going across the passes. They sound very beautiful. I just looked at map quest. The route that is 3 hrs 38 goes close to Luzern. The one through the passes takes around 4 hours 30. Much shorter then the via michelin. Which do you think is correct? Have you driven the road through either of the passes?