Yeah you can ride boats. I may do some of that this time.

Besides living in a mountainous country, the Swiss are known for their engineering. I'm not much for watches but I appreciate engineering marvels. If I'm not mistaken some of their trains are attractions in themselves, to people who visit from all over the world. And people go up those mountain tops to see the valleys and the lakes below, from above, on the way up, etc.

So I'm going to see the natural beauty of the place and one of the best ways to see it is to go up on all this infrastructure that they've built up. Other countries have beautiful landscapes as well but they don't have as much infrastructure. For instance, New Zealand has some famous cable cars but if you want to see some of the views from other mountains, you have to do a 5 or 6 hour hike. That's great but I'm not as young as I used to be and I don't want to spend most of the day climbing up and down a mountain.

I just did a spread sheet in preparation for my trip starting in early August.

I will be in Switzerland for 17 days, between when I land and depart. I will need trains from and to Zurich airport.

I searched the fares on SBB.ch for all the train trips I'm going to take as well as potential day trips like Jungfraujoch, Pilatus and Gornergrat. There may be some others that I'm not thinking of but those 3 alone are about 420 CHF without any discounts.

Of course, if the weather doesn't cooperate, I may not be able to do all these anyways. Last time I went, Jungfrau wasn't clear except for part of one afternoon, IIRC.

I have at least 5 long train trips (3 hours or more) which will cost 76 CHF or more.

The way I figure it, I could cover all the train trips with the 8-day Flex pass, assuming I don't find some other trips to make. The Swiss Travel Pass and the Swiss Travel Flex pass only gives a 25% discount for Jungfraujoch while the Half Fare Card gives a 50% discount, which comes out to 50 CHF less with the HFC (100 CHF round-trip from Wengen vs. 150 CHF vs. 200 CHF full fare).

Seems like HFC is the way to go. 8-Day Flex Pass is 445 CHF, without adding in the costs of the day trips.

Sounds like a go. You know exactly what you will be doing and then maths are the key.

Ok also the hotels in WEngen give some sort of discount for the lift in Wengen so ask for that, Also the half or whole fare meals at Wengen hotels are a good deal, and worth the extra, at least at our hotel there. I was there last July in Wengen and had great weather.

Yeah I took the half board in Wengen, thought about doing the same in Zermatt and St. Moritz but didn’t.

You may like to go out to restaurants but the evening meal at Swiss hotels IME is a great bargain vs very expensive Swiss restaurants and IME it is often a buffet with typical down-home Swiss fare.

Sense I got from TA is that half board in Zermatt isn’t as attractive value-wise as half board in Wengen.

IIRC, it was at least 40 CHF at most of the hotels. There was one cheaper HB option but i didn’t like the location of the hotel, which was like right by the train station.

I think that Zermatt is more expensive hotel wise because it is about the only town with hotels and everyone stays there but in Wengen area you have Grindelwald, Lauterbrunnen and Murren competing?

Swiss families often stay at Graechen, the kids friendly station.
.....and of course in the Saas Valley, more authentic, ,but with several cableways up to the glaciers and all but overtouristy. I suppose foreign tourists don't want to go there for this latter reason.

Yes I loved Saas-Fe - base town in Sass Valley -great bus ride there from train - did not see wow vistas like at Zermatt but stuck to town as I was on a day trip from Zermatt. Good suggestion for folks wishing to escape tons of foreign tourists but alas not Matterhorn, number one reason folks flock to Zermatt I think - too bad it is often clouded over for days at times.

Zermatt hotel wants 65 francs for half board.

I'm sure the meals will be great, several courses and all that.

But a lot of the time, I prefer a short and simple meal. Rather than sit down for a couple of hours, I'd rather grab something quick and relax in the evenings, especially after a long excursion during the day.

Saw this review for this one place which has take out rotisserie chicken. Gets good TA reviews. But they sell out by 6 PM. One Chinese user gave the place a bad review because the owner was waving her off because she was out of food already. But the user didn't like that she gestured to her, instead of talking to her. She considered gesturing to be racist.

Some of the places are suppose to offer a 3/4/5 course meal to the public so I may check those out.

Similar story in Engadine, specifically St. Moritz, though the hotel restaurants don't see

One of the specialties of the region is suppose to be air-dried beef. I don't even know what it's called but there is a certification for it, IGP like DOC for wines and cheeses. It's like 30 CHF and it's a starter dish at some of the restaurants. There are accounts of this being made as far back as the 14th century. It better taste a lot better than beef jerky. ;)

Similar story in St. Moritz, though the hotel restaurants don't seem to get as high reviews as those in Zermatt.

Buendnerfleisch? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bündnerfleisch

OK SCRB, YOu mention going back to Zermatt, IF you haven't gone into that little underground museum (that I skipped first time there), it is well worth going thru, esp the second floor. There is a section that tells the history of the horrible mtn climb accident, and the mystery still behind it. Worth going thru, esp 2nd floor. Check it out. museum right next to church/graveyard of mtn climbers.

At least Swiss breakfasts that are included with hotel are a feast IME - large buffets to chose form- unlimited food to stock your stomach up on for much of day but do NOT do as Rick Steves once suggested in a long-agon guidebook to stuff your pockets with things like bread, meats and cheese for later in the day!

If you are committed to the Upper Engadine, you might look at places other than St. Moritz (which I, personally, found the least interesting and most hyped town in the area).

Too late, already booked months ago.

I did look at Klosters, Celerina and other places. Since I'm going to use the Engadine Pass from the hotel, St. Moritz seems well located to reach the other towns in the area, with several bus stops in the Dorf area.

When I first looked into the Engadine, I was working off an itinerary with a car. But I am arriving on a Saturday and it's impossible to get a car in the area, would have had to do it from Zurich and drive all the way almost. Plus people are touting the buses in the area so we'll see how well that works out.

It's only 4 days but for this trip, my first time in Switzerland in the summer, I also wanted to go to Bernese Oberland, Zermatt and Luzern again, since I'd only been to those places in the winter.

It's a very scenic train ride after Chur - especially when the train tracks up the Albula Pass via a series of corkscrewing viaducts and tunnels - a UNESCO World Heritage Site for prodifious railway engineering circa 1900 - from Chur you can take either the Bernina Express or reguar trains - BEX of course has observation cars and commentary en route: https://www.google.com/search?q=albu...w=1097&bih=541

Trains can be cheap (Zurich-Chur-St-Moritz at www.sbb.ch) if you book early - www.seat61.com has great info on that and the St-Moritz area trains.

Buses also run a scenic route there - going up and over the Julian Pass: https://www.google.com/search?q=juli...h=541&dpr=1.75

Oh, so sorry -- I misunderstood your post on the 25th!

The Engadine Card from the St. Moritz hotel is suppose to cover all cable cars and mountain railways and the Bernina Express as far south as Alp Grum. Also buses throughout the Upper Engadine region. According to the SBB iPhone app, it seems the buses are just as efficient to take from say St. Moritz to the Diavolezza station, both around 45 minutes.

So the only train I expect to take are the Bernina Express. Will buy a separate round trip ticket from Alp Grum to Tirano as supposedly the southern stretch of the BEX is suppose to be very scenic. They even have open carriage trains on that line.

Engadine Card also includes a bus to Val Bergaglia, which reaches the Majola Pass and all the way to Chiavenna. But that's 2-hours all the way so I don't know if I'll have time for that.

You really DO need to post a trip report. You are "planning" to do a lot and I suspect you will not do all of it. THREE days in Zermatt? Why?