Swiss trains; pricing.
 

I am usually really knowledgeable about trains, but I'm a little stumped here, and maybe you all can help out with my confusion. PalenQ?

I was going to get point to point tickets but the more I research, the more it seems better that I just get -- at least for the Switzerland part -- a Swiss flexipass. Tell me if I'm right or not.

We land in Geneva and head immediately to Montreux -- well, actually somewhere between Montreux and Vevey, thanks to the awesome help of Swandav. That's our base for 5 days -- I wanted to hang there as long as possible during the Montreux Jazz Festival with the hope that someone might be playing there that does it for me and my musical tastes.

Meantime, I'd like to check out some of the old places I've been to before as day trips -- seriously, most places can be seen as day trips. But in my research, I see that even a round trip to Bern can cost a bundle, and that is certainly one of the spots I plan on visiting.

When we leave, we head to Paris via Lausanne (or Geneva, depending on the train). Now, the swiss train website brings up all sorts of crazy long trips at crazy long prices, while the French website brings up Montreux to Paris via Lausanne or Geneva, at a cheaper price using the TGV.

Don't know if I can use the Swiss pass for that partial journey to the French border, but do know I have to pay extra for TGV.

What am I missing -- can you fill in the blanks?

I hope this makes sense!

Hi Surfergirl,

When you try the fare for the trip to Paris, do you input a day that's 90 days from today? That's the way to find out what the best discount fares are. And, yup, be ready to buy when your own trip is about 90 days out. You should find fares as low as, like, 29 Euro or so.

When you find discounted fares like that, you may not need the Swiss Pass to the border.

I've been travelling to Switzerland once or twice a year since 1995, and I've always found the Half Fare Card to be the best bargain. It costs 110 chf and gives you half off practically everything that moves for one month.

Have fun as you plan!

s

In case of Switzerland-Paris travel, imho, it makes sense just purchase international discount ticket (http://www.sbb.ch/en/leisure-holiday...rice-tips.html) instead of combination Swiss pass for Swiss segment (and no, you don't pay extra by using TGV withing Switzerland) + full fare for French segment, first one will be definitely cheaper (you can buy it here - https://www.sbb.ch/ticketshop/b2c/pipSchritt_1.do), but at the same time it's for the fixed date and train, so kind of limits your spontaneity.
Regarding Swiss pass, there is a simple way to determine whether it's worth it's price or not, just spend a bit of time and calculate the sum of all point-to-point tickets for journeys you plan to take and then compare it the pass fare ;)
Also you might consider potential promo campaigns by SBB, for instance rather popular lately SuperSaver offer, which allows you to travel all over Switzerland for a bargain fare. It's not available all year round, but still a great way to safe in case it happen to be on your dates of travel

Yes, swandav, I did that -- so I could have a sense of the fare at its least expensive. I'll run the math on the half fare card -- I looked into that, but didn't see one for a month or less. Thanks.

ETGC -- I did the calculations on point to point vs. pass -- that's how I arrived at the pass is better. I will check your other links, thanks!

Surfegirl, try also to check out SuperSaver tickets? http://www.sbb.ch/en/travelcards-and...r-tickets.html
Those are much cheaper than usual point-to-point. For instance, Geneve-Montreux from 11,2 CHF instead of full fare 28 CHF etc.

EuropeTrainsGuide - Are there only two SuperSaver tickets available right now? They seem to both expire May 14th which I'm super bummed about because we'll be travling from Zurich to Lauterbrunnen May 16th! Was the Geneve-Montreux just an example or do you see that ticket somewhere?

GillsinEurope, no Geneve-Montreux for 11,2 CHF SuperSaver ticket was just an example, SBB offers such promo fares (-->up to 60% off regular fare) for almost any route within Switzerland (some limits are only on private railways). SuperSavers will be sold up to August 20, so not sure what you mean by 'expire May 14th'
Also more info and FAQ regarding SuperSaver tickets you can find in a link to SBB page from my previous post.
But regarding your route (Zurich-Lauterbrunnen), now the last day it's possible to buy SuperSaver is April 18 and cheapest ticket Zurich-Lauterbrunnen for 18/04 at the moment cost 29 CHF (instead of 72,2 CHF regular fare). If you need it for May 16, then just visit SBB website 14 days before the date and easily buy your SuperSaver ticket.

regarding the pass - I always do more once I am there if I have a pass than if I have to pay for each ticket - like on Lake Geneva you may want to take a late afternoon boat ride over to Evian-les-Bains for the evening in that swank French resort and spa and casino town - 100% covered by Swiss Pass, even to France. Or if you are visiting any museums - over 400 free entry with Swiss Pass - also covers city buses and trams and postal buses - best value per day is a consecutive-day pass but since they are only 4-, 8- 15- and longer consecutive days they have to comport to your time there - otherwise the flexipass comes into play - 3-day usually better than a 4-day since in between first and last day you get 50% off practically everything that moves except cows! Once the third day is used the pass terminates so you have to leave the third day to your last day of significant travel.

So if pass even approaches what the regular fares are go for the pass IMO - and when checking Swiss Pass prices as I did recently I found they were now significantly cheaper if bought in the U S than for the same exact pass bought in Switzerland - has often been the case for several years but not always so compare before buying. And if your c card imposes 3% on foreign transactions calculate that as well. And of course a pass negates waiting in ticket lines - you just hop on the train, boat, postal bus, tram, etc.

As TrainsGuide says it is best to nab a low fare from www.voyages-sncf.com for the Lausanne or Geneva TGV trains but if you cannot there is a Pass 2 discount on those trains if you have a railpass valid in Switzerland.

Great sources of info on Swiss trains IMO - http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html; www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com.

I'm no rocket scientist, but I do consider myself to be a somewhat intelligent woman. However, I'm at a loss for this Swiss pass nonsense! If the last day to buy these SuperSaver tickets is April 18th then how can I wait until two weeks before my travel date? Fourteen days before May 16 is May 2. Will there be a new bunch of SuperSaver tickets then?

Also, if I do decide to go for the pass about how long does it take to ship? Or do I pick it up at the train station once we get to Zurich? I like the idea of the pass better because of the ability to just hop on and off, 50% off of mountain cables, the use of buses, etc. but if buying SuperSaver tickets saves me a lot of money, I'd much rather do that!

Yes, there will be a new bunch. The thing with SuperSaver tickets is that they basically being 'released' each day, thus on May 1 there will be tickets for May 15th available, May 2 - May 16, May 3 - May 17 etc., so each new day the final date for which you can purchase ticket also moves. So to say 'window' of sale is 14 days in advance.
And all those 'released' tickets are available until either they are all sold out (it can happen on the first day for some connections or it can be that for tomorrow or even today some are still left).
To simplify, today you can check out the last date for which SBB sells SuperSavers and pretty much expect to see the same picture on May 2.
Regarding the pass - http://www.swisstravelsystem.ch/en/content/tickets/faq

GillsinEurope -- if it helps any, I feel the same way!

But ETG Com, even as a new poster, has been pretty helpful trying to explain the serious idiocyncracies of the swiss pass that makes me feel like my name should be Alice and I just fell down the rabbit hole . . . . :D

Surfgirl, I'm not against passes completely, but anybody planning to buy it just should understand all the pros and cons of it ;)
Yes, they give a good deal of flexibility and freedom to change plans, allowing you not to think about any bookings, 'catching' discounted ticket etc., but at the same time passes aren't always the cheapest solution, especially in countries like Switzerland with the whole bunch of other possibilities. But in any case the final choice is yours :)

don't blindly judge passes by price alone - with a pass I always find I travel more than if I had to buy tickets - even at half-price and also have to stand in ticket lines, etc. If the savings are not much escdhew the restricted hard to change or refund tickets IMO and enjoy the sponteniety and flexibility of a Swiss Pass - which also gives free entry to over 400 Swiss museums and is good on city trams, buses and lakes boats and postal buses - consecutive-day passes are the best deal if they comport to your 4- and 8-day periods they are offered in (and longer time periods as well).

sometimes folks seem to want to spend hours looking for saver fares that come and go and are not in great supply - hours and hours - one thing about a pass is that it is so so easy and in Switzerland one would rarely lose much money with a pass over these limited in supply and not guaranteed mini fares - but that seems to be the Fodor's mantra - save a nickel even if it takes hours to research and try to book, etc.

ETG -- I was paying you a compliment. I like having the choices explained, the confusion lifted and you do it well.

I tend to follow the same path as PalenQ on rail passes -- I more often go for them than not. Because, like PalenQ, I like to be a little more spontaneous on day trips, whether they be to Bern or Zurich, or wherever. It usually depends on the weather and in this case, it will also depend on what music group is playing on a particular night. So I need a lot of flexibility.

But I will certainly look into these options and possibilities. I just wish the Swiss rail was as user friendly as the French counterpart!

ETG and PalenQ are so helpful!

I want to buy the 2=1 pass because I know it will be easier (and it may be the same price or even cheaper than buying individual tickets, but I also know we'll be doing a lot of "it's easier" on our vacation because we have our kids with us. All those "it's easier" situations definitely add up!

So I'm leaning towards the 2=1 Swiss pass where we would get 4 days within 1 month. How does it work using those 4 days? I want to make sure our last day (the train from Lauterbrunnen to Zurich) is covered. We'll be in Switzerland for 7 days and probably on at least one train, mountain lift, gondola, etc. every day. Do we just pay full price on the days when we don't want to use our pass? Am I making any sense? It sounds right in my head.

2 for 1 pass? Is that the Saverpass for two people traveling together - if so not really 2 for 1 - or referring to the recently expired actual 2 for the price of 1 pass thru RailEurope in the US? In any case be sure to compare prices in US dollars to the exact same pass sold in Switzerland - currently I checked and there appear to be significant savings for buying the exact same pass here, if an American than in Switzerland - and if I were you I would consider the 8-consecutive day pass over the 4-day flexipass - and in any case the 3-day flexi is almost always a better deal than the 4-day flexi. Gotta run now but will answer your other questions if someone else does not.

It's $288 (total price for two people) for 4 (flexi?) days within a one month period. I guess it is the Saverpass for two people traveling together between April 1 and May 31. It said it was a special deal on Rick Steves and on BudgetEuropetravel.com It says includes all museums, boat rides, postal buses, and scenic train rides. It also gives 50% off for mountain rails, cable cars, etc. We will be in Switzerland 7 days so we can use our 4 "travel days" any of those 7 days we want right?

http://www.raileurope.com/rail-ticke...r+1.affiliates

http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html

Yes indeedy I was wrong about the cut-off date - have to buy before May 25 according to Budget Europe site link above.

We will be in Switzerland 7 days so we can use our 4 "travel days" any of those 7 days we want right?>

Yes except you want to leave the last of the four days for you final trip as after you use the 4 days the pass expires - in between the 1st and last day of use you get 50% off everything that moves practically in Switzerland but not after the fourth and final day of 100% travel is used.

Some aerial cable ways are 100% covered - if they do to an actual town - like from Lauterbrunnen-Grutschalp and mountain train to Murren - 100$ covered because it links Lauterbrunnen and Murren - ones just to mountain tops are 50% off.

It also gives 50% off for mountain rails, cable cars, etc.>

One exception - between Wengen or Grindelwald and Kliene Scheidegg and the Jungfraujoch Swiss Passes now get 25% discount rather than 50 % previously a few years ago - only exception I know of of the 50% rule on everything that moos in Switzerland - I meant moves, except cows!

Great! Thanks PalenQ. That's probably what we'll get then.

Here's another questions for ya! Can my husband use one of his 4 days to go from Switzerland to Vienna on an overnight train? He'd probably fly back so he'd only need to use 1 of his days. But I wasn't sure of international travel and I wasn't sure if we are able to travel separately. I think I read that we have to travel together on the first of the 4 days. Is that correct?

The Swiss Pass passes only to the Austrian border - you would have to buy a supplemental ticket from Buchs SG, border point I believe in Switzerland, to Vienna. Normally on a Saverpass you need not be on the same train but you cannot use one of your fourth days separately - I am not sure if this 2 for 1 offer is a Saverpass or two individual passes, which I suspect as 2 for 1 on solo passes fetches Swiss Rail more than 2 for 1 on cheaper Saaverpasses. Call Byron at www.budgeteuropetravel.com for a definitive answer IME as to what type of pass is actually issued on the 2 for 1 offer.

Again to be clear you hubby could use the 4th day of his pass to reach the Austrian border and if both passes are individual passes you can use the 4th day elsewhere - but if it is a Saverpass then for him to use the 4th day by himself - perfectly possible under the rules you could not unless you say traveled part way with him, like to Zurich. Whether or not the special is a Saverpass or two solo passes sold 2 for 1 is the key to find out.

Oh I see on the BudgetEuropeTravel site the 2 for 1 special is definitely only on Saverpasses - two names on one actual pass.

So he could use it by himself to get to Austrian border, but then i wouldn't be able to use it to get back to Zurich from Lauterbrunnen. I think I got it. Thanks!

Yup I see no way other than that. But at least fare from Lauterbrunnen to Zurich is not too much.

Sorry to keep hounding you with questions. I really should call Byron...and I may tomorrow. Anyway, do we always have to travel together with this 2 for 1 Saverpass? I'm assuming if we can't travel separately on the last day then we can't travel separately on the first day of use either right?

Only one person on the Saverpass need travel with the pass - the other person does not have to be on board - thus if you want to take separate trains both on that first day at separate times it would be fine - if that is your question? But it seems one of the person's will not be able to have the pass - there is just one pass with two names on it so the same situation I guess.

Tant pis!

Ok. No need to split up our train travel anymore. He's going to Vienna via plane. So we are now flying into Geneva so I'm trying to see if there is a Super saver ticket from Geneva to Lauterbrunnen but I'm not seeing any great steals. I think I'm going to get the pass.

If there were super saver fares Geneva to Lauterbrunnen then it would probably be by the express fastest route via Lausanne and Bern and not via the much much more scenic Golden Pass route which does not really take that much longer.

what's the deal with the Geneva snafu - you and spouse arriving at separate times or what? Wonder if you could buy a half-price train ticket with the pass for one and have the other use the pass?

curious?

We just came back from Switzerland. We got the Swiss saver pass for 8 days. It was expensive ($700 U.S. including delivery charge), but when I figured out where we would use it, it came to about the same as if we had bought the tickets individually. So for convenience sake, we bought the Saver Pass. (No need to wait on lines for tickets - just hop on the bus, train, boat, etc. that you want).

When we got home I sat down to figure out just how much we would have spent on individual transit tickets considering the REAL use we made of the Saver Pass on our trip. (Examples: Took advantage of 3 museums - no extra cost and didn't really think before hand that we would go to these; hopped on trams all the time; decided to take two extra boat rides not initially considered, etc ., etc.)

Result: Individual tickets would have cost us close to $1100 U.S.!! Thus, $700 was well spent.

Hm. Never thought of that. You may be right...probably could buy a half price for one of us and have the other use the pass. Oh well. We worked it out. He needed to go to Vienna for a quick business thing, but we worked it at the beginning of our trip so we could use the pass together when he returns.

We now will be using the pass from Geneva-Lauterbrunnen and again from Lauterbrunnen to Zurich when we depart. We have more than two days in between those two journeys so we'll just try to do most of our sightseeing on two of the remaining five days of our vacation and just pay half fare for the days when we don't use it.

Our flight out of Zurich is at 1pm. Would you recommend doing a scenic route from Lauterbrunnen to Zurich? I heard it's not that much more time, but I'm not sure it's worth it. Also, is it going to warm up there any time soon!?! Hoping for some nice picnic weather by the time we get there!

like kenav says I always end up using my pass more times than I dreamed I would - not only for museums that I was just passing by and would not have paid to enter but once in I may have found delightful but also on a whim to just hop on a lake boat in Interlaken, etc. I would only eschew a pass if I knew exactly what I was going to do - like go hiking in some remote area - otherwise the pass is for the average traveler visiting more than one region almost always a bargain IMO.

kenav,

I am curious about the figures you quote. It seems you got the point-point fares from Raileurope -- since you use a $ figure rather than chf, which Swiss rail would give you. You may know that Raileurope inflates their point-point rail prices.

I also wonder if you compared the fares with the Half Fare Card? Using your $1100 figure, you could have purchased those tickets for $550, plus the cost of the Half Fare Card (110 chf) for a total of $671. So the HFC would have been a competetive value for your trip.

Just adding this information so future travellers can compare --

s

If you have a Swiss Pass then the stupendously awesome IMO loop from Lauterbrunnen up to Grutschalp via awesome aerial cable car and the cliff-side train to Murren overlooking the deep Lauterbrunnen Valley far below and the cable way from Murren to Gimmelwald and stunning aerial gondola plunge back to the valley floor at Stechleberg and postal bus back to Lauterbrunnen - all of that would be 100% covered by a Swiss Pass - so if doing that totally awesome loop (IMO) use one of your 100% covered days if you have a flexipass.

Hi swandav - I got all my prices from sbb.ch. They were in Swiss francs (CHF) and I converted them into U.S. dollars to help those reading this make more sense of the real dollar amounts. As for the Half Fare Cards: We would have had to purchase two Half Fare Cards (110 CHF x 2) as it was for two of us.

It cost $25 U.S. ( I believe) for the mailing of the tickets to me. I included that fee in the overall price of $700 U.S. total for the Swiss Saver Card which covers 2 people traveling together.

I don't know if the Half Fare card would have helped more than the Swiss Saver Pass, but again, the ease of using the Swiss Pass is a bonus. No waiting on lines or having to purchase tickets each time you need to; just run onto the trams, buses, boats, trains.

Again, I know that we used transportation more than we would have if we had to continually pay for individual tickets. We thought nothing of jumping on as many trams as we wanted or taking extra boat rides. Also great for the free museum visits. The three we visited would have cost 20-25 Swiss francs per person ($22-27 U.S.) without the Swiss Pass.

It DOES take time to figure out which offer would work best for one's trip. I definitely looked at the numbers over and over before we made our decision. But I do advise everyone that the amount of transportation you may really end up using may be more than what you figured you would use.

PalenQ - Ah, that trip to Grutschalp sounds wonderful. Next time...

PalenQ - will do!