starting all over to plan our 12 day Italy itinerary for May 2006..too many places: what to squeeze in? what to omit?
 

My original plan for myself and my husband was 3 (full usable, nonflight days Rome, 4 Florence, 3 Venice, and 2 Rome (c/c r/t requirement for air ticket- still contesting that) with a side trip to Pisa in Florence (1st trip to Italy, my hubby and I agree that Pisa is an absolute, non negotiable). NOW, since reading these boards, investing in Rick Steves Italy 2006, I'm thinking Siena, Lucca, San Gimignano, Cinque Terre, Sorrento, Capri, as well as my original 3 cities! I want to include as much as I can, but not be frantically running about, and not have time for gelato ;)
We will have 12 full days (I could if needed squeeze in a 13th) plus a half day reserved for jet lag and orientation. We plan to travel about by train.
Considering all of the above- what would each of you do?

I would stick to your original itinerary and do day trips to Siena and (1/2 day ) Pisa from Florence.

I can sympathize. Every time I read those travel books I want to go everywhere and see everything.

I agree with mjs - stick to your original plan and do daytrips to Pisa and Siena from Florence. On your NEXT trip to Italy you may be confident enough to rent a car so that you can do more of Tuscany, Cinque Terre and the Amalfi Coast. Meanwhile this May you will be able to soak up plenty of wonderful Italian experiences and be relaxed enough to enjoy them all.

Hi D,

Your original plan is very good for a first-time trip in the time you have.

Focus on that.

You will go back.

As noted, you can visit Siena by SITA bus and Pisa by train from Florence. Many people combine a visit to Pisa with Lucca.

((I))

I agree with the others. The train time from Florence to Pisa is an hour and whereas there is more to the city that "the tower" that's what most people go there to see, along with the several other buildings which occupy the "field of miracles."

Siena is also an easily manageable day trip from Florence by bus or rail.

I would not let anyone deter me with the oft-heard "lack of depth" 'warning'. Go to these originally-planned places and enjoy them thoroughly otherwise you will BE "frantically running about."

have a nice trip.

Hi,

I agree with the above....don't add on new locations as your original plan sounds great.

The only thing I would say, however, is that if you are willing to give up one of the "big 3" cities for this trip (probably Venice), you could spend some time in Tuscany to see places like Lucca and San G. But, I would only do that if you let something else go.

For our first Italy trip last October, I knew I wanted to spend some time out of the big cities and did not want to spend too much time travelling from place to place. So, DH and I chose Rome, Florence and Tuscany. We are now planning a trip which will include Venice, Lakes, and Milan. We still want to go back to revisit Rome and go south to Amalfi Coast and perhaps Sicily.

Where you go isn't as important as prioritizing what is right for you. Then, enjoy what you do and don't worry about what you "missed." I know it is hard as I want to go everywhere and see everything, but I keep telling myself it is not a checklist or a contest....take time to enjoy.

One of the dangers of doing your own research is that the more I read, the more I want to do. :-) It is all good.

Have fun!

I agree, stick with the three and do a daytrip to Pisa & Lucca and another to Siena from Florence.

The only thing I would think about doing is to continue on to Florence your first day (or Venice), leaving the entire Rome part for the end instead of splitting the Rome stay. This cuts out one hotel change, always a good thing. Have a great trip!

ttt

I agree with mjs. SusanP's suggestion on not splitting the days is very good.

From Florence, you can do Pisa & Lucca in 1 day (on your own), and a day trip to San G. and Sienna (organized tour).

Personally I would still split the days in Rome. Stay in a different area of the city and you will be discovering new sights in your final days in Italy.

We also wanted to see Rome, Florence and Venice but thought a 12 day trip of cities would be tiring so we divided it up into Rome, Tuscany (with Florence) and Venice. For us, it worked out beautifully.

Having the break in the countryside allowed us a breather from traffic and the cities while still letting us visit Siena, San G. etc with a car. We parked in Florence all day and still found we saw everything we wanted.

But if it's more important for you to spend time in Florence, then leave as is. Your itinerary is great and has been repeated... it won't be your only trip to Italy.

TobieT-nice spin on what I thought was a disadvantage with the split days in Rome. what areas would you consider for hotels in Rome. This could be the old "lemons into lemonade"! ;)

JSlee- what is the advantage of doing an organized tour Siena and San G., as opposed to an independent trip--I am asking, because I have read that same suggestion on another post, and there must be a benefit, since most of us on this site seem to pretty much prefer to
do independent traveling..What would you consider to be a good tour company, and should be book in the US
or wait til we arrive in florence?

It sounds like a wonderful trip no matter what. Venice is always a city that you can do in combination with the South of France if you were to wish to do this another time.

Otherwise, I would stick to your original plan and enjoy every minute of it. The worst feeling is to get back from a great vacation and feel so exhasted that you need another vacation. You aren't going to sleep very well when you are there from excitement nerves, time change, and being in a foreign place. This won't really hit you at first but when you get to the 4th or 5th day you are going to want to slow down. If you set yourself an itinerary that does not allow you to take your time and enjoy what you are experiencing you are going to feel even more exhausted. You will also be disappointed if you don't get to do everything you want.

The best way to travel is to set yourself 5 or 6 definate places to see and let the rest just happen in the in between times.

My first trip to Europe, I had planned to travel around France. I spent a week with friends in Amsterdam and Frankfurt, and then prepared to go off on my own. When I got to the train station to go to Paris, they told me there was a strike and I couldn't take the train in. At the time I was too young to afford the insurance to rent a car. That left me with no choice but to change my plans. I was so upset, alone in Amsterdam with no idea what I was going to do next. I looked in my guidebook and decided to see another part of The Netherlands, then from there went to Luxembourg, then to Milan, then to Venice, then to the south of France after the strike had been lifted. I did not get to see Paris that trip but I had the best time I have ever had. I met people, ate at more local restaurants than I would have, and completely enjoyed every minute.

Hi daisy58,

We stayed near Piazza Navona and loved being able to walk to the Vatican and the Pantheon, and wander later in the evening. I wasn't crazy about our hotel so can't make any recommendations that way, sorry.

Another visit I might consider almost any of the other neighbourhoods in Rome, except for near Termini probably because we do like to feel safe at night. Trastavere appeals to me but for another visit I might stay near the Spanish Steps. We walked there in the evening after dinner and I really liked it as well.

I know some people like to stay in the same place but until I get to know a city, I like discovering new aspects. Probably the only exception to this would be Venice as we did really like the convenience of being near the train and bus stations for late arrival and early departure. Being away from San Marco probably forced us to actually see more of Venice by boat and by walking. And that was wonderful. If you're interested, we stayed at Hotel Gardena and had a lovely room overlooking one of the smaller canals. gardenahotels.it

You really DO have the advantage over the rest of us who lamented when leaving Rome after our first visit, since you know you'll be returning!

travelavocado, why do you group Venice and the south of France? They're not particularly close.

To the OP, if it was me, I'd dump both Florence and Pisa and stay in the Tuscan countryside for Siena and San Gimignano, renting a car for those days. Sorrento and Capri are another trip; Lucca's okay but not that exciting. And you haven't even talked about the lakes.

how about this itinerary:
2 days Rome
4 days Florence-with 1/2 day side trip
Pisa, day trip (tour?) Siena/SanG
2 days Venice
2 days Milan
2 days Rome* (this would be added to
1st 2 days Rome, if my c/c co
will let me have an open jaw
flight)
in addition, would you recommend either
an additional day Rome or Venice?
I'm open for all suggestions!

Two nights in Florence is enough to see all the city as well as visit the Accademia and Uffizi Gallery. I would skip Venice and use the time to rent a car and visit hill towns in Tuscany or Umbria. Save Venice for another trip. Rome definitely needs 3 to 4 days. I would not drive in Florence or Rome, use public transportation.

I liked your original plan better. Strangely, I happen to love Milan, and was not overwhelmed with Venice, but I have to say that if you intend on seeing Venice, you should give yourself some time there. Two days each (minus travel time) is not really enough to appreciate Venice or Milan.
As far as splitting up Rome, on our first trip to Italy, which was a little longer than yours, we split up Rome, and I think it worked out well. It takes a little while to familiarize yourself with a city, its destinations, and its transit systems. We spent our first two days just walking around neighborhoods in Rome,getting the lay of the land, and deciding what we really wanted to see. On our way back we had four days to really plan out what we could see in more depth.
If Pisa is a "must", try to fit some time in Lucca, as well. I think you will find it worth your while.

Well, your most recent plan adds Milan into the mix, giving you five hotels in twelve days. Way too much moving around (just my opinion).

As far as splitting the time in Rome being a good chance to stay in different neighborhoods, that might be a good idea if you had a lot of time in Rome, but even with your original plan, you only have five days in Rome. That's not a lot of time for Rome, and you're losing a lot of time by splitting it up into two stays (all that time spent getting to the next city, getting to the train station, waiting for the train, getting to the new hotel, checking in and out of the hotel, it all takes more time that you think. By putting all the Rome time together, you save all that time of changing hotels an extra time. Just something to think about.

you guys are really being great in putting up with my chaotic agenda! Since my last post, I figured I would assume (!) that my c/c company would see it my way (a whopping $1.23 difference between r/t rome/rome and my (I think) better idea of an open jaw flight) so..here it goes..this also does not include our arrival 1/2 day in rome, which I figure to be jet lag and
orientation..
4 days Rome
4 days Florence (same 1/2 day Pisa and
organized tour Siena/San G 1 day)
3 days Venice
2 days Milan
again, the above are full days, with train travel between cities..I figured Rome was certainly worth 4 days, Florence had day trips, as well as the city itself involved, Venice, like Pisa, is really a non negotiable, and worth time spent, and Milan would be a great finish, with the Scala and the Last Supper.
Now that you know MY thinking, considering I have never been there, I am turning this over to you seasoned Italy travelers, which is why, of course, I signed up for this forum to begin with! Thank you for all of your prior, and if I am not Too annoying,O:)
future assistance..I might mention, so you may forgive me..I have really been trying to get hubby here forever..he finally said okay!

Obviously, it's better if you can do the open-jaw flight instead of round trip Rome. You also seem to have added a day, as your latest post includes 13 days, whereas the previous one was 12 days. With the open-jaw flight, your latest plan seems good. I haven't been to Milan, but do a search and you will probably find more than enough to fill your 2 days there. Or take a day from Milan and add it to Rome, where you can never have enough time!

I did indeed add an extra day, because my original itinerary included a post flight day rest day, which in the past was really just a luxury, a luxury I would gladly forfeit for a better trip!
I am such a travel junkie =P~ , that when hubby and I came back from a recent trip in the evening, stayed overnight at the SFO hotel, I had him drop me off at work the next morning!
that probably makes me straight-jacket suit material for sure, but I really live to travel!

SusanP- in reading your post, and checking my "bible" aka Rick Steves, you are right--because according to his guide book, "half of Milan's sights are closed on Monday" which was for us to be the first of two days in Milan. So then if I added a full day to Rome, and subtracted from Milan, it would look like this:
5 days Rome
4 days Florence
3 days Venice
1 day Milan
am I getting closer to perfection within reasonable boundaries????

Hi daisy58,

That looks perfectly reasonable with the added bonus of not having to uproot yourself and settle back in to Rome a few days later. Given your flights, I was trying to make you feel better, but this is definitely the better of the two scenarios.

I would still try and make the most of your time in Florence by seeing as much of Tuscany as you can. Friends just returned from a whirlwind 3 week cities only trip (self guided) and said they really wished they had seen more of the countryside than just from the windows of a train.

HI daisy58,

This plan sounds much better (and either 5 Rome/1 Milan or4 Rome/2 Milan sound fine).

My only question is will you be happy spending pretty much the whole time in cities or would it make sense to cut out a city in favor of a smaller town venue? Just personal choice though as this plan is good. Flying open jaw and staying in 4 locations for the 2 weeks sounds great.

Have a fabulous trip!!

I think that last one sounds great. Even though you won't be staying overnight in a hilltown, you will be able to get a good taste of the countryside in your daytrips. Have a great time!

at the risk of sounding toooo obsessive,my first waking thoughts
this morning was ..reverse it! I figured that since the first day would be a 1/2 day of jetlag and orientation,
it would probably be better in Milan than Rome. That being said, and only taking into account full usable days,
how about this scenario?
2 days Milan
3 days Venice
4 days Florence (same side trips)
4 days Rome
????

That also sounds great! In fact, that might "fix" your Monday problem in Milan. And, many people (including Rick Steves) say transitioning North to South works best anyway. But, if you can't do it that way, the other is just fine.

I also think SusanP is right when she says you will have a good taste of the countryside with your day trips.

Happy travels!

oooh..havent gotten to that part of the book yet, why is north to south easier? just curious. I also figured doing it this way, we would be fully functional with our bearings and time adjustments to help us better spot and avoid the dreaded nasty little pickpocketing children in Rome I keep reading soooo much about (a friend of mine got her wallet lifted by a group of these kids at the Sistine Chapel a few years back.
I like this itinerary enough that even if my c/card co. wont cooperate, I might just spring for both tickets (I stood to get 1 free) and save the points for another trip. the $950.00 or so won't dramatically change my life, but the right itineray can make or break a trip!

Well, Steves' argument is that Italy is intense and bursting with energy and that the farther south you go, the more "intense" and rich in flavor it gets. So, for someone's first trip, he thinks it is wise to "ease" into it.

Now, I don't necessarily agree and we went to Rome first and LOVED it.....so, it was just a little chitchat tidbit, not real wisdom.

We also had no problems with pickpockets or children, but we did take normal big city precautions. I'm not saying don't be careful, but I do think Rome can get an overly harsh rap on this. Be streetsmart and aware. Sure, something could happen and sometimes does, but don't worry too much or have a negative attitude in advance. I can't wait to go back.

You will have a fabulous time!!

Whew! that being settled, on to hotels!
O-)

daisy58,

I would recommend CAF tours for your day trip to Siena and San Gigimnano. I used them last month while I was staying in Florence.

Have a great trip, and make sure you post a trip report.

Tom

Do you book CAF tours in Florence?
thanks for all of your help--I will
definately post a trip report! Better
get busy--only 177 days and a wakeup
to go!!! :)

Using Florence as base, consider a Tuscany tour with Artviva.com which combines Siena, San Gimignano, an authnetic Tuscan lunch at a farm and wine-tasting.

ANUJ-Wow! thanks for the info! this looks wonderful-far from the "wonderbread tours" I have seen on other sites! and similar pricing with it seems to be much more quality

Hi,
I think you're smart to stick with Rome, Florence, Venice with some side trips for your first trip. Capri and the south is a whole other trip if youre set on spending a few days in each city. As far as Tuscany, I was in Florence for 3 days, one of which i used as a day trip to Sienna and San Gimignano (a bus tour-it was well worth it) I am a huge art admirer/fanatic :) and with plenty of time spent in museums etc I still had time to walk around the city and relax. To save time and still get in Pisa, We took a late afternoon train (its a pretty short ride) and stayed through sunset which was great because we got to see the tower in day and night and we didnt take away from our day's activities. I did hear Cinque Terre was amazing as is the South, but you don;t want to take away from the amazing cities you're already visiting! Hope that helped-enjoy your trip!

Hi daisy

I like your idea of starting in Milan and working down towards Rome; I've only visited Milan once, and I liked it so much more than I had expected to, but I love Rome and think a last night in Italy in Rome is perfect (well, except that it's the last night, but you get my drift!).

In was in Rome in May and then at the end of the same trip in early June, and for various reasons actually did stay in 2 different places, similar to what you were talking about in an earlier version of your itineray. I would recommend either of them:
Nicolas Inn, a great B&B near the Forum, and Hotel San Francesco, a nicely-renovated small hotel in Trastevere. Both have websites.

A tip we got from Melissa, the owner of the Nicolas Inn, is to go to the Vatican museum/Sistine Chapel at lunch time instead of lining up early in the morning as seems to be usually recommended. This strategy did work for us. Lines were not too bad.

You mention Rick Steves: The Rome night stroll past the Trevi fountain and other "lit-up" sights that he maps out in his book is a good one.

In Venice, I stayed 3 years ago at Casa Martini (casamartini.it) and it is a lovely small hotel, very Venetian, owned by a charming young couple. This last trip I stayed in a small B&B in a quiet and convenient Dorsoduro location that we found through veniceby.com. The name of the B&B is Ca' Turelli.

Do you have free time in Siena on your tour? It is an interesting city to wander around in. We ate some delicious cookies from the pastry shops -- I think they are called ricciarelli or something like that (does anyone know?). After many trips to Italy and never getting to Siena, I was thrilled to finally visit there in May, even if it was only for one afternoon/evening.

Pisa: On this last trip, friends (a couple) who were meeting up with us had never been to Italy before and he really wanted to see Pisa. (The rest of us had been there in our various pasts). They were so glad they fit it in. The stayed the night there as she had found a good hotel deal, and really enjoyed themselves.

Sounds like a nice trip!

annabelle2--thanks for all your info and advice --I can't wait to go!!!

Hi daisy, just saw your thread. I have often flown into Milpensa airport and spent a bit of time in Milan on arrival also. It is a "calmer" city than Rome, and is a good place to get over what jetlag you might have. I like your final itinerary.

Not sure if you know or not, but from Milpensa airport you can take the airport shuttle bus to the central train station in Milan (Centrale). Than just take a taxi to your hotel.
The cost of the airport shuttle is 5 euro per person I believe. There is luggage storage underneath the bus so that is nice. Have a wonderful trip.