St.patricks day in Scotland ?...?
 

Hi I am an American and I will be in Scotland for St.patty's day and I was wondering if they party and celebrate it there? I'd like to be prepared and know if I'd look like an idiot wearing green and four leave clover stuff, lol.

Sorry - but do you know anything about St Patrick? Or about the most common religions in Scotland?

Can only suggest you google ex-pat bars in Edinburgh or wherever.

#1 It is St. Patrick's Day and not St. patty's day
#2 The Irish symbol is the shamrock, not the four leav clover.

Green beer and shamrocks are more common in Boston and New York than in Edinburgh . . . .

Scotland has it's own patron saint and doesn't need to celebrate other people's.

However any of the Oirish bars will be "celebrating" it (ie they'll be beer just like the other 364 days of the year) and if you go to Glasgow they'll be many people celebrating it due to Irish "links".

And yes you'll look an idiot dressing in green especially if you refer to shamrocks as 4 leaf clovers

<i>Green beer and shamrocks are more common in Boston and New York than in Dublin . . . .</i>

Corrected your statement

In the major British centres of the Irish diaspora (above all Glasgow, but true in bits of Edinburgh too), St Patrick's Day is traditionally NOT a day for celebrating Irishness, but the day for some Irish origin Catholics to celebrate not being Protestant.

Some Scottish (and Liverpool) Irish-origin Protestant extremists have a parallel celebration on July 12: generally accepted among most Irish to be the anniversary of a battle affirming Protestant dominance in the British Isles (the rest of us acknowledge it as the anniversary of accountable democracy in the English-speaking world). In places patronised by that group, acknowledging St Patrick's Day in public almost guarantees physical confrontation at the very least. Being American is absolutely NOT an excuse.

Elsewhere in Britain, St Patrick's day is almost entirely a trivial excuse by pubs and beer brands to run sales promotions. A bit of that has penetrated to parts of Scotland - but even there, wearing plastic paddy regalia is the mark of a fool: confusing clover with shamrock is the mark of an insular ignorance you'd have thought too moronic even for Americans.

Looking like a refugee from one of those absurd American March 17 parades looks inane anywhere in Britain (especially if you don't know what you're wearing). In some parts of Glasgow, and a few parts of Edinburgh, it's not far short of suicidal. The kind of behaviour that carries an instant nomination for a Darwin Award (google it)

alanRow: "<i>Green beer and shamrocks are more common in Boston and New York than in Dublin . . . .

Corrected your statement</i>"

I would have posted the same --but I didn't want the OP to feel a complete putz :)

So I just addressed he specific question re Scotland . . .

And for gawd's sake don't ever, but never, refer to it as St. Patty's day. Just don't. That may wash in the land of green beer and leprachaun pardes but it will embarass you, even endanger you, anywhere else.
So stop it.
Dr D

I am just wondering if you have made the situation completely clear to the O.P.

I am just wondering how much money Fodor's could make if they published a book of stupid Forum questions.

There is a lady on another thread who is planning a bus tour for her adult son.

wow some of you were really nasty, it was a simple question, and in AMERICA we often do refer to it as St.pattys day, just an abbreviation. NO ONE had the right to be rude about it, and you should feel ashamed. Their are always better ays to get your point across, and this was not one of them.

Yep -- in <i>AMERICA</i> (I'm a Yank too) . . . That has nothing to do w/ St Patrick or the UK

Look at it this way - folks being 'rude' here probably prevented you from (innocently) making a fool of yourself in Scotland.

Are you even Irish or Catholic? Personally, I never understood why Americans would dress up in green to celebrate an episode of Irish Catholic significance if they were neither Irish nor Catholic. The simple problem is that in the US, St. Patrick's Day has been removed from its sectarian roots (despite the name) thanks in no small part to Americans of Irish descent (predominantly Catholic) who promote the Irish Catholic historical view as the Irish view (three words: bipartisan IRA sympathy). This is not a comment on correctness or validity, just an observation of the influence.

And Ashley, the Protestant/Catholic divide still echoes enough in Scottish culture (two words: Celtic, Rangers; this works also with Hearts, Hibs) and history so that a St. Patrick's Day celebration is not an "Irish" celebration but an Irish Catholic one.

"wow some of you were really nasty, it was a simple question, and in AMERICA we often do refer to it as St.pattys day, just an abbreviation. NO ONE had the right to be rude about it, and you should feel ashamed. Their are always better ays to get your point across, and this was not one of them."

It is my understanding that Paddy is short for Patrick, Patty is short for Patricia. If that is correct, everytime you see it as Patty in the USA it is incorect. For the record, some people think it is disrespectful to shorten a saint's name. They are important to people of the Catholic faith. Maybe that is what was meant, by "It's Patrick, not Patty."

PS. As long as responses aren't against the forum guidelines, responses can be as the responder wishes it to be.

Perhaps the poster should have looked at the responses as a learning experience instead of getting upset. I've been around for awhile and if you're thin-skinned you won't last long on this website.I've been taken to task a few times but once the initial sting wears off, I'm grateful for the information and/or corrections. IMO a number of posters beome resentful of criticism and take it far too personally.

That the OP finds the replies offensive or nasty again highlights that people communicate in different ways on either side of the Atlantic. I could see very little nasty in responses.

Ashley, if you take nothing else from the thread, please note that the answer to "I'd like to be prepared and know if I'd look like an idiot wearing green and four leave clover stuff" is yes, very much so - and in the wrong areas it could be not only embarrassing but dangerous to you.

There is one poster on this board that seems to go over the edge at anything at all related to Ireland or the Irish. Don't know why and I think the comments sometimes go too far.

However, it is very naive of the OP to think that an Irish catholic saint would have a holiday celebrated in other parts of the world that are not heavily catholic or heavily Irish. It betrays a complete lack of appreciation of the differnces between major religions. Other countries have their own patron saints (which we in the US don;t celebrate). And many protestant sects don't really believe in saints at all - that was one of the reasons for the Reformation. It is naive to assume either 1) Scotland is a Catholic country or 2) the Scots would celebrate a holiday for the patron saint of Ireland.)

It is also extremely naive not to be aware - at least in very general terms - of the hundreds of years of discord and civil war between catholics and protestants in Ireland - and how that might be reflected in other areas of the UK that are primarily protestant.

(It is sort of like asking if Ramadan is a big holiday in New York. No, NYC is not primarily Moslem and Ramadan is not a major holiday for the city in general. One can certainly find a religious center and group to take part in activities - but there is no parade up Fifth Ave with 500,000 pipe and drum corps.)

Anybody who thinks that St. Patrick's day in Ireland is a religious festival celebrated mainly by Catholics is sadly mistaken: it's party time, and the biggest drinking day of the year.

Being a curmudgeon, I usually stay at home on 17 March.

Fwiw, I am an American of many decades, raised Catholic, currently Presbyterian and descended from both Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants. I have never heard St. Patrick's Day referred to as St. Patty's Day (except occasionally on Fodor's).

You'll be fine, OP. Just remember the Scots are real sticklers for manners- don't forget to say "Top o' the mornin to ya" to shop keepers, bartenders, folks standing beside you at the bar, etc. It immediately breaks the ice and they'll appreciate that you took the time to learn how to speak in their dialect. Also Scottish men are very easily flattered, if you compliment them on their cute British accent they'll be like silly puddy in your hands.

"<i> don't forget to say "Top o' the mornin to ya" to shop keepers, bartenders, folks standing beside you</i>"

You are just being mean >)

((6))

(I was soooo hoping to see a Cholmondley Warner response in this thread but it looks like he's not around anymore? :( )

Sadly CW died last year
http://www.fodors.com/community/fodo...nge/rip-cw.cfm

Having been banned, he was reinstated after he was dead. He would have laughed like a drain at that

I wish people would be more polite on this forum - after all that is why people have queries, because they need information and be corrected if they have a wrong perspective, but in a civilized and polite manner!!!

I think nytraveler's point about historic bad relations between religious communities is worth repeating. In Scotland, there are essentially RC and Protestant football teams, Celtic and Ranger and support for one or the other is not just Patriots vs Giants.

Several years back, I was in Edinburgh on Michael Collins's birthday and watched an Irish parade being jeered and having the odd vegetable tossed at them.

If the OP is still around, the lessons of this series of posts is that all kinds of things are going on abroad that you should avoid getting involved in because they call up a lot of emotions that are just different from the way people in the States would react to the same thing.

There is a huge Irish diaspora living in the U.K., and many of them are unconcerned about past political and religious problems. I live in an English city which has traded with Ireland since the middle ages and which has seem considerable Irish inwards immigration over the past 200 years. In the early 1800s, there were anti-catholic riots, although there were riots about other grievances as well.

I have never heard of a march on Michael Collins' birthday, and the idea of an event where those taking part were pelted with vegetables is beyond belief where I live. We save our energies for protesting about new supermarkets and chain coffee shops.

Things must be different in Scotland, where feelings on religion and nationality are stronger. That's the downside of the sort of emotions that brought you Braveheart and the culture of perpetual grievance.

I always liked what Simon Hoggart, the Guardian columnist, said about the Irish. They will do anything for peace except vote for it.

Yes, the peoples of both islands have had an interesting common history for thousands of years and there has been constant toing and froing of settlers and migrants in both directions.

People often forget that Patrick was actually Romano-British and first brought to Ireland as a slave having been captured by pirates.

I don't think he'd be very impressed by modern 'St Patty's Day celebrations'.

There are Irish bars all over Europe nowadays, though most of them will have local staff rather than expat Irish people and very few of them bear any resemblance to a bar in Ireland. I expect the ones in Edinburgh will be doing something on March 17th though it may not resemble the goings-on in Boston or New York.

While the tone might be a bit snarky, the advice was generally good. Sectarian divisions run deep in parts of Scotland - and not just in Glasgow. I have been on the receiving end of some quite unexpected hostility in Aberdeen and in Edinburgh because of my Irish accent (just some mild rudeness - but still).

It's probably not a good idea to go in for all the wearning of the green nonsense, and to steer clear of Irish pubs on the day - Irish pubs abroad on 17th March seems to be a magnet for every kind of idiot that you can imagine.

And it's never, EVER Patty.

Very sad to read about CW - I had no idea. I actually thought of him after Spurs' disastrous thrashing at the hands of the mighty Arsenal last weekend.

"I wish people would be more polite on this forum - after all that is why people have queries, because they need information and be corrected if they have a wrong perspective, but in a civilized and polite manner!!!"

I agree with you BUT............We seem to get this same question every year albeit it usually refers to London, I think some posters get a bit peeved by the naivety of the question, just as I was a bit peeved by the rant of an American in a Mcdonalds last year, he was insisting that he should be able to pay in USD as Mcd's is an American company and also we should be forever grateful to the US for saving us from the nazi jackboot during WW2.
I am at a loss sometimes to understand why these type of people travel as they seem to expect that everything will be the same as "back home".

>> 'St Patty's Day celebrations'. <<

Is that where everyone dresses up like their favourite character from Peanuts? Or like the Andrews Sisters?

As long as it's nothing to do with Pat Butcher!!!!!!

>>As long as it's nothing to do with Pat Butcher!!!!!!<<

I can see it now: competitions for the dangliest earrings, the most eye-searing floral print.....

I live near Glasgow Uni and on Paddy's night the bars are usually heaving with folks in silly green hats who've had a lemonade or 3.
Just by a swift Google I've already spotted 2 St Patrick's Night Ceilidhs and a Pride of Ireland St Patrick's Day Show in Glasgow that weekend.

Oh yes, and I'm invited to a friend's Paddy's night party up the road.....

Yes - but it's not like NY - where everything is green on March 17 - from beer to bagels to fur coats to dogs (yes, some people dye their dogs green with food coloring)

Nor does the entire city stop for a massive parade with every politician within hundreds of miles, a half a million marchers and a couple of million watchers.

But NY is a city of immigrants from everywhere - and there are parades (although smaller) for just about every nationality you can think of. (Columbus day isn't far behind and Puerto Rican day parade is also huge.)

It's just very naive to have so little understanding fo the world outside one's tiny area to assume that everything will be the same. (I recall a poster some years ago asking about Thanksgiving celebrations somewhere in europe. Somehow they must have missed all of American history - with the Pilgrims, starvation the first winter, then Squanto and his pals showing the immigrants how to survive and the THANKSGIVING feast when they brought in the first harvest and knew they would no longer starve.) Why would people in europe celebrate that?

I seem to remember the dearly departed CW saying that <i>of course</i> we celebrate Thanksgiving.


On July 4th.

(Thanks for the link, MissPrism- I haven't been around these parts for quiet a while and had no idea. What shocking, terrible news.)

Apologies for the hijack, OP.

To actually answer the OP's question, rather than patronise the crap out of the poor soul, the following links have a list of events on in Glasgow and Edinburgh over the St Patricks day period.

http://www.glasgowstpatricksfestival.../listings.html

http://www.viewedinburgh.co.uk/pubsa...urgh-3486.html

Enjoy your trip and don't let the idiots get you down.