Spanish itinerary
 

I am trying to organize the most efficient circuit to visit the following cities: Toledo, Granada, Seville, Valencia, Cordoba (obviously not in that order). The amount of time spent in each city is to be determined. We would be arriving from the U.S. (probably flying from SFO) and returning via NYC. What would be the most efficient order of visit by means of public transportation? I have abandoned the idea of renting a car, recalling the difficulties parking in Seville in 1985.

[QUOTE=Michael;17589880]I am trying to organize the most efficient circuit to visit the following cities: Toledo, Granada, Seville, Valencia, Cordoba (obviously not in that order). The amount of time spent in each city is to be determined. We would be arriving from the U.S. (probably flying from SFO) and returning via NYC. What would be the most efficient order of visit by means of public transportation? I have abandoned the idea of renting a car, recalling the difficulties parking in Seville in 1985.[/
Are you flying into Madrid or Barcelona or …?
Spanish site RENFE will give you some ideas on train connections .
ALSA is a very good bus company.

I think that Madrid makes more sense geographically.

Toledo is 1/2 hour train trip from Madrid…not connected directly to other cities on your list.
Valencia is under two hours from Madrid , not on the same line with Seville and Cordova.
Most posters have done Cordoba, Granada , Seville ..in various combinations train, bus, day trip…etc

A brief search gives a flight from Valencia to JFK with a stop-over in Lisbon, which would be ideal since we would already be in that city. Land in Madrid and go to Toledo on the same day to get over the time change while spending two days in that city?

I'm glad I had two full days in Toledo -- and I travel HARD!

You might look at options for flying out of Seville. So something like: Fly into Madrid, go straight to Toledo. When ready, back to Madrid and on to Valencia. Then back to Madrid, on to Granada. From there to Cordoba, and finally to Seville.

OR if you decide to vly into Valencia: Velencia, on to Madrid, Toledo from there, on to Andalusia....

NOTE
the trains to and from Valencia now depart / arrive at the northern train station in Madrid, Chamartin.
Trains to/ from Toledo and Seville depart from Atocha station in central Madrid.

Thanks, danon! I obviously didn't pay attention to the specifics, trusting the Michael would figure it out if that routing seemed reasonable.

Actually , I learned about it here . Maribel who lives in Madrid mentioned it to someone not long ago.
I don’t know when the change from Atocha to Chamartin was initiated, somehow it seems strange considering the direction.

Interesting! I trust Maribel ... but wonder if it was temporary?

It seems to stand. Looks like a couple of trains to Valencia still leave from Atocha.
In any case , the rapid suburban train Cercania connects the two stations.

This was the order of our trip in September 2017. We did not visit Valencia but instead we spent 4 nights in Madrid. I hope this helps. And we also visited Malaga.

Flew to Madrid from Marseille where we were visiting our daughter and her family.
Madrid - 4 nights
Train to Toledo
Toledo - 1 night
Train to Cordoba - as Danon says, Toledo is not connected directly to Cordoba or other cities on your itinerary, so we changed trains in Madrid
Cordoba - 2 nights
ALSA bus to Granada
Granada - 2 nights
ALSA bus to Malaga
Malaga - 2 nights
Train to Seville
Seville - 4 nights
Flew home from Seville

Andalusia is understandably a draw for the first time visitors to Spain ( and second time, third…..etc)
Valencia , partly because of its location, is often “ skipped”. It is a lovely city .
We stayed in Valencia for 4 days.

From what I read and looking at a map it looks like my itinerary should begin in Valencia, bus to Toledo (I am unsure about transferring from one train station to the next), and from there go to Granada, Cordoba and Seville, returning to the U.S. from Seville.

That sequence makes sense to me ... except that I'd probably opt for trains rather than buses to get from Valencia to Toledo. I think you'd have to change buses in Cuenca and going by bus would take much longer. If unsure about the transfer in Madrid, I would think you could just take a taxi.

Valencia to start the trip is a good option.
Taxi from one station to the next should be no more than 20 euros.
Buses to Toledo leave from bus stations in couple of locations in town.Train is better .imo.
As mentioned , you have to return to Madrid from Toledo to catch the train going south.

NOTE

there are several trains that go to Atocha from Valencia….only a couple are fast trains.( I found one early in the morning, one in mid afternoon…I picked a random date )
If you check RENFE you just might be able to find the right train FROM Valencia TO Atocha , from there take
another train to Toledo.( frequent and popular)

there are several trains that go to Atocha from Valencia….only a couple are fast trains.( I found one early in the morning, one in mid afternoon…I picked a random date )

I have not seen any. They all seem to originate from the other station.

I am now looking at another option which involves returning from Seville. But I am unsure about some transfers. Here's the screen shot of the issue:



https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...1f258f481e.png
Is the train going from XQA to XOC or is it the transportation for the transfer from XOC to MAD?

My new thought is to start the trip in Toledo, getting there on the arrival date from SFO. Then Valencia, Granada, Cordoba, Seville to JFK via XOC and MAD.

Trains from Seville go to Atocha…from there you can take a bus, taxi or metro to the airport.

XQA and XOC are IATA designations for two train stations.

Perhaps there is some advantage in purchasing the train ticket from Iberia as connection to the flight ..
(in case of delays ? )
I usually buy train tickets from RENFE.

So what is the "change of airport" line in the screen shot?

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...ab21b54ad2.jpg
Early train from Valencia to Madrid
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...51dbe3ae4b.jpg
Afternoon

Iberia is acting as RENFE’s agent by adding the train ticket to the air.
Since Iberia is an airline, the train stations are given IATA codes.

We did something similar this past April. We ended our trip in Toledo and would’ve stayed too late there except for our flight was canceled and had to rearrange the very ending of our trip. If you do have to make a transfer from one train station to the other in Madrid, it’s very easy. There is a computer train that goes in between the two and it’s all part of your ticket so you don’t have to buy another ticket. Our itinerary was Madrid -4 days train to Granada 3 days, train to Seville 4 nights, train to Valencia 4 nights train to Toledo.

We used Iryo for some tickets and Renfe for others.

I established what I hope will be a final itinerary. We are arriving in Madrid on Oct. 12 and leaving from Seville to JFK on Nov. 1. That's booked. I reserved a room in Toledo, but am holding up on the rest because we still do not know if our request to visit the Alhambra has been accepted. One pays, and then one waits for 72 hours before receiving either a confirmation or a denial. If we can't visit the Alhambra, we will have to possibly change the internal itinerary, maybe adding a day to Valencia and a day to Cordoba, we have already allocated 5 days to Seville.

Once you hear abiout the Alhambra (my fingers are crossed for you!), please post your "final" itinerary .... if, that is, you are willing to hear tweaks or suggestions. ;-0

Just a note about the train station change for the AVEs and Avlos to Valencia from Atocha, now to the Chamartín rail station (undergoing a massive construction project) in the Northern business district. Ditto to trains going to Alicante/Alacant. This is not a temporary change.

Just a note about the "free" Cercanías ticket:
the Cercanías commuter or suburban rail line is the one that runs from Atocha station to Chamartín station (and other suburban destinations). It is only free or complimentary if one purchases a high speed or long distance rail ticket through Renfe or its affiliates, the Trainline or Petrabax.
www.renfe.com
There are other rail companies that compete with Renfe to provide high speed rail service now in Spain.
If you purchase a high speed rail ticket from the low cost French OUIGO or the low cost Renfe option, the AVLO, your ticket will not include the Combo Cercanías 5 digit bar code that allows you to introduce and secure, via the self service machines, a free Cercanías ticket within 4 hours of your high speed or long distance departure or arrival.
Your RENFE rail ticket will have this 5-digit bar code at the top left corner that will indicate "Combinado Cercanías".

The Italian train company IRYO, now operating on certain high-speed routes--- IRYO tickets do also include this free suburban rail ticket.
For an IRYO ticket's free Combo Cercanías ticket, you must scan the QR code on your ticket at the readers at the Cercanías turnstiles to travel between stations such as Atocha to Chamarttín, or between Barajas airport and Atocha or Chamartín.

This is all explained better here-
https://www.thetrainline.com/en/trai...nado-cercanias

Can I use a printed ticket in these instances? I am of the 20th century and do not have a smart phone. I am going to go from Toledo to Valencia which will require the change of train stations if going by train.

Here's the itinerary in terms of travel days, sights not concretized except for the Alhambra.

October11-12 SFO to Toledo
two full days in Toledo
October 15 Toledo to Valencia
4 full days in Valencia
October 20 Valencia to Granada
two full days in Grenada
October 23 Granada to Cordoba
two full days in Cordoba
October 26 Cordoba to Seville
5 full days in Seville
November 1 Seville to JFK via Lisbon

We already have hotel reservations for Toledo and Granada, thinking of an apartment for the longer stays (Valencia and Seville)

Do we need reservations for the mezquita?

Sounds wonderful, Michael! I haven't been to Valencia yet (not for lack of interest), but was glad to have 2 full days in Toledo, 3 full days in Granada, 2 full days in Cordoba, and 4 full days in Seville (where more time would have been welcome). So -- you've decided to exclude Ronda, Malaga, Cadiz, etc.? I'm not questioning your decision, just taking note and confirming....

You are going to have such a wonderful experience!

I'm sure Maribel will give far better advice about the Mezquita than I can.

Michael,
Yes, you can use a printed ticket. We print our train tickets as well as have them on our smart phones, simply for a backup. Most Spaniards do just have them on their smart phones, but we always have a back up plan.

The Valencia to Granada by train will make for a long day and the ride will eat up a good chunk of that day, as you'll switch from an AVE to an AVANT in Córdoba.
Although the far is 20 euros more expensive, you might want to opt for the Confort class, which will provide you with a 2 + 1 seat configuration, a quieter ride, more leg room and an XL seat in the preferente car. (There are no non-stop flights from Valencia to Granada.)

Edited to add: Never mind!!!!! I see from your other thread that you've already purchased your Valencia to Granada rail tickets and know that you make a train change in Córdoba, so ignore the above (I'll just leave the info here for others contemplating that rail journey)

About the Mezquita:
Yes, from my recent experience, you should purchase advance tickets to the Mezquita so that you don't have to work your Córdoba sightseeing around accommodating for the limited ticket availability if you wait until you arrival at the monument.

Example: we arrived at the ticket office at 10:30 am on a weekday (pre Holy Week) and found that timed tickets were only available starting at 2 pm. There was a long line at the ticket counter, but there are also self service machines from which to purchase tickets with c.c.. Because we've visited Córdoba and the Mezquita multiple times during many years and know the city quite well, this wasn't a hardship, but just a pain. So we adjusted our sightseeing.

We also secured tickets to the evocative sound and light evening visit, "The Soul of Córdoba", which ekscrunchy and I highly recommend. It begins with a very informative video (headphones in various languages), tracing the fascinating history of its construction in stages by each Calif, then continues with a one-hour tour, accompanied by a hostess and guards (no photographing allowed). Because it's capacity controlled (about 80 visitors on our tour), it felt like we had this magnificent, vast building to ourselves, without having to dodge the tour groups and selfie sticks.
But it's an enhancement to the day visit rather than a substitute, just as a night visit to the Nasrid Palace is to the day visit of the Alhambra.

Wrong area of Spain as far as this trip is concerned.

Official ticket purchasing site for Córdoba's Mosque-Cathedral here.

Official ticket purchasing site for Seville's Alcázar here.

Official ticket purchasing site for Seville's Cathedral here.

I assume you purchased your Alhambra tickets through the official site here

You assumed wrong, not that I did not try. I avoid the "sponsored" sites and thought that I was on the official site, but that was not the case. That represents a 30€ differential per ticket. Once purchased, tickets are non-refundable. I really appreciate the information given. Thanks.

That´s what I was afraid of, because I didn´t understand why you would need to wait 72 hours to find out whether you had Alhambra tickets or not. If you book on www.alhambra-patronato.org the purchase is immediate. No waiting.
Sorry!! But for others, please use the official site!

Maribel,

You mention that one could break up the Alhambra visit with lunch at the Hotel America, which was the Hostal America when we were last in Granada in 1985. At that time I believe that we paid $30 per day for two with breakfast and lunch or breakfast and dinner. Prices and condition have changed. Is a reservation for lunch necessary?

Yes, Michael, it was the family-run Hostal América when I stayed there in the 80s, a tiny, simple place, chock-a-block with plants, ceramics, antique furnishings. I can't remember what we paid but it was indeed a very cheap option, My traveling companions didn't want to splurge for the Parador, although back then the Parador wasn't nearly as costly as it now is, and was always full. The 1-star América used to close during the winter, but I don't know if that's the case now.

In high season, you would probably need to reserve for lunch but in March, we just walked in. But you might just send them an email to ask. [email protected]
https://www.hotelamericagranada.com/en/restaurant/.

Maribel,
Thanks again for the information. A family crisis has intervened, hence this period of silence. I do have questions. For the Alcázar are senior rates for all seniors or only Euro seniors? Is the timed entrance--the only option given--a general admission or meant as a guided tour? what is the difference between these two options: Visita Real Alcázar de Sevilla or Visita Real Alcázar + Cuarto Real Alto. Is the second including the immediate neighborhood? Again, guided or self-guided with an audio guide?

As for the cathedral. there are numerous tours offered, including getting on the roof and the indoor balconies to better see the stained glass windows. Only guided tours for those areas? I would think so for the exterior, but the interior spaces. For a satisfactory visit, which tour should I choose?

It used to be so simple back in the days. Back in 2006, a tour of the roof of the cathedral in Santiago de Comppostella was a spur of the moment choice;

For the Alcázar in Sevilla, the senior rates are for all seniors. On the Spanish language oficial web site, it says this in red: "* Las entradas reducidas, antes eran sólo para ciudadanos de la Unión Europea. Ahora es para todo el mundo".
The timed entrance is for general admission.

The first option, "Visita Real Alcázar de Sevilla" allows entrance to the ground floor and the gardens, the entire complex except for the Royal Apartments, or as it says in English, the Royal Bedrooms, the area upstairs, which is still the official residence of the Spanish monarchs when they visit the city.

"Visita Real Alcázar + Cuarto Real" allows one to visit both the Alcázar, the gardens and the upstairs Royal residence, but the latter is via a timed entry, and escorted tour with security guard accompanying the small group (no photography allowed) and via an audio guide (English is available). For one's timed entry for this guided tour, one must arrive upstairs no later than 15 minutes prior to this tour. One can enter the Alcázar itself one hour prior to your timed guided visit to the Apartments. Prior to this upstairs visit, one must stash cameras, purses, backpacks in a locker. (We also left our cell phones in the locker). Bring one euro for this. The euro is returned to you after the visit. And these lockers are secure.
During the visit, the security guard indicates to the group when they can move from one room to another. One can't wander.

These tours of the Royal Apartments (Royal Bedrooms in English) do sell out and are only loaded on the purchasing page one month in advance. For the entire month of October there is already very limited availability for this Royal Bedrooms visit, only a few slots for October 27. These escorted visits are given from 10:00 to 3:00 pm only.

As for the cathedral, there are now several options.
Most visitors opt for the cathedral + Giralda (former Moorish minaret, now the bell tower), reached via a ramp rather than steps.
This can be done independently without a guide, purchasing an audio guide for 5 euros, or on a guided visit, which gives you access to more sections of the cathedral that previously had never been open to visitors.

This visit begins with the Giralda and after going to the top, one descends to visit the Cathedral.
This ticket also now includes entrance to the gorgeously Baroque Iglesia del Salvador, but you need not visit this monument on the same day. You can visit the Iglesia del Salvador on the following day or I believe it's even valid for 3 days, but I'm not sure.

I haven't taken the roof top tour nor have I done the interior visit to the stained glass windows.

I would opt for the ticket that allows entrance to the Cathedral + La Giralda + Iglesia del Salvador with an audio guide, and if you prefer, see the latter monument the next day, although they are located very close to each other.
On the purchasing page, it is the first one, "Recommended visit with Audioguide - Cathedral and Giralda (includes church of El Salvador)"

I haven't taken the guided visit. I've just used the audio guide.

Very avid photographers tell me that the views from the roof top are entirely different from the views from the Giralda, so if you want to take photos from the roof top, add that.

No, purchasing tickets for the major sites in Spain last minute is no longer recommended at all due to the huge number of tourists this year visiting them. And Sevilla is one of the cities now suffering from over tourism-over saturation, as you may see, especially in the area around the Cathedral, Alcázar and in the Barrio de Santa Cruz.

Another question: I have made reservations for the major sites in Andalusia, but none for Toledo and Valencia. Any reservations absolutely necessary for these two cities (we have our lodging)? Thanks.

Major sights in Toledo: the vast majority of visitors go on their own and buy tickets directly at the sites, because they wait to buy their Avant train tickets a couple of days before (considering the weather and the time they might have for this day trip). Remember that Monday is not an optimal day for Toledo sightseeing because several of the monuments/museums are closed, including the Sephardic Museum/Synagogue of the Transit. The cathedral doesn't open for cultural visits on Sundays until 2 pm.

I've never purchased online tickets for any site in Valencia. I just go early to the cathedral, which is a major draw and attracts many visitors.