Spain itinerary; driving in the Pyrenees
 

Hi all,

Our Spain itinerary is coming together:

9/29: arrive in Barcelona
9/30: Barcelona
10/1: Barcelona
10/2: drive to Peretallada as base for Costa Brava
10/3: explore Costa Brava, nearby villages
10/4: explore Costa Brava, nearby villages
10/5: drive to Ainsa
10/6: Ainsa/Ordesa National Park
10/7: drive to San Sebastian
10/8: San Sebastian
10/9: drive back to Barcelona (maybe stops in Pamplona or Montserrat?)
10/10: fly home to Chicago

We have all of our lodging booked except for San Sebastian... still working on that.

Now we need to rent a car. My question: do we need something other than a basic economy car for driving in the Pyrenees? From Peretallada to Ainsa, we're thinking of this route: A7 to A2 to N240 to Barbastro, then N123 to A 138 to Ainsa (following Maribel's advice). For Ainsa to SS, we may go through France--this seems like the quickest route, and for this drive we won't be making any leisurely stops to explore.

thanks in advance!

Hi strass,
If you decide to take the route through France from Ainsa up the A138 through Ordesa Park and Bielsa, you'll still have plenty mountain driving. It's a good road, but mountain driving nonetheless. And you'll want to explore Ordesa. The drive from Torla to Biescas is spectacular but slow going, if you decide to do it.
With that in mind, I strongly suggest you go above the "basic" economy car. We just returned from time spent there, driving a Peugeot 303 diesel, with a 1.6 liter engine-sufficient power to handle the drive well. We rented through Europcar. It was a category C compact.
Driving west on the A 64 on the French side, through Tarbes, Pau, Bayonne, Biarritz down to San Sebastián is fast and easy.

Thanks for the quick response and the info!

Would you agree that the route through France is the fastest/easiest way to get from Ainsa to San Sebastian?

I agree with Maribel that driving west on the A 64 on the French side is fast and easy -- and if you want to do something really extraordinary, go up to Aix-en-Thermes and take the mountain road through Andorra, then drop down the Pyrenees to Spain and Barcelona. But that means spending the night in Aix-en-Thermes and being willing to drop the plan if locals tell you the weather is too iffy at that time of October.

However, you might also consider dropping of your rental in Bilbao and flying back to Barcelona. You can probably find a very cheap flight, and that would give you more time to play with in the middle, maybe especially an extra night in San Sebastian and an extra night back in Barcelona.

If you want a good aiport hotel for Barcelona, I had a very good stay at the Tryp, with a very good rate through bookings.es.

We did think about flying back to Barcelona, but I don't really think it would save us much time... we would still be traveling on that Monday, 10/9 (just by plane, not car), and our flight home leaves Tuesday morning at 9:40 a.m. It would probably only save us an hour or two to fly...

strass,
I would avoid Andorra at absolutely all costs, It would be far, far out of your way, over 4 valleys on narrow mountain roads, backtracking far east from Bielsa to Seo.

Yes, you've done your map homework very well.
The route up through Bielsa, across the border to St. Lary Soulan then up to the A 64 and over west on the A 64 will probably be faster and easier for the driver than driving from Ainsa to Sabiñánigo to Jaca to Pamplona to San Sebastian, which we recently did (but not in one day).
The latter route is decidedly more scenic, because you have more mountain scenery, but there are also multiple temptations for sightseeing detours, which would slow you down! :)

Ah, well, who can quarrel with Maribel? The time of year isn't favorable for an Andorran climb anyway.

I interested to recently discover that Mappy clocked the route from Toulouse through Andorra down to Bourg-Madame to Barcelona at four hours.

Hi strass,
About flying back to Bcn- your feeling is correct.
The airfares from the San Sebastián airport (in Hondarribia) to Barcelona are not usually cheap or extremely convenient due to lack of competition to date with the low cost carriers. And the plan to enlarge the airport is a major issue at this time.

I forgot to address your return to Barcelona from S.S. by car on Mon. 10/9.

Driving time via the autoroute from San Sebastián through Pamplona, Zaragoza, Lleida will be roughly 6 hrs.
From Pamplona it takes us 5 hrs.
Montserrat would be a somewhat time consuming detour from the NII (you would really need to be compelled to do this), while Pamplona is a quicker detour, right on the A 15.

If I personally needed to make the six hour S.S. -Bcn drive in one day, I would just do the drive straight through and enjoy my last night in Barcelona.

It's a roughly 25 min. max. taxi ride from a downtown hotel to El Prat airport, and cost is approximately 20 euros, including the supplement for suitcases carried in the trunk.
Hope this helps.

In my post I suggested flying from Bilbao, but can't be sure you'd beat the six hour travel time or save any money.

Thanks for the info about Montserrat... I know my husband is interested in Pamplona, so if we make any detour, I think it'll be there... it sounds simpler! And we do want to fully enjoy one last night in Barcelona. We'll probably take a cab to the airport the next morning just to be on the safe side, instead of wrangling with public transportation during rush hour.

hi strass,
Just in case you make the stop in Pamplona....You'll probably want to focus on the Old Quarter, which is wonderfully walkable.

Just follow signs to El Corte Inglés, and park NOT there (very exp.!) but in the underground garage at the Baluarte Performing Arts Center next door. Parking in the Casco Viejo (Old Quarter) is impossible (we have dear friends who live there), and street parking is blue zone, which is a hassle.

From the Baluarte, it's an easy walk to the epicenter of the old town, the Plaza del Castillo of The Sun Also Rises fame. In the square peek in or have a coffee at the Café Iruña of Hemingway fame, and from there you can walk the encierro (Running of the Bulls) route. It's marked by new red signs. The historic Hotel Perla is now closed for renovation (making it into a 5 star).
Start your "encierro" walk down at the end of Santo Domingo (where the corrals are set up during fiesta), walk up to the pretty town hall square, Plaza Consistorial, where the opening ceremony, the "chupinazo", takes place at noon July 6, turn left on Mercaderes, then right on Estafeta (the most famous stretch of the run), then down Estafeta to the bullring. You'll see the Hemingway statue to the left of the entrance. On Estafeta street you'll pass the Casa del Libro (green facade with red letters) which sells books about the fiesta and about Navarra, then Olentzero, which is a nice store to pick up classic Navarran gifts, gourmet products, figurines of the giants/cabezudos, kilikis/zaldikos of the fiesta or posters. www.olentzeroa.com
Plus two wildly popular Kukusumusu (means "kiss of the flea" in Basque) shops that sell really clever graphic design souvenirs, such as t-shirts, hats, key chains, beach wear, everything under the sun with the Kukusumusu designs. They're the creators of www.sanfermin.com Kids love that stuff.
The famous ZZZ bota (wine skin) bags can be found on Comedias #7.

Pintxos (tapas) in Pamplona can rival the quality of those in San Sebastián if you know where to stop.
My favorites in the Old Quarter are:

Bar Gaucho (very creative-just bought their cookbook) on Espoz y Mina #7, right off the Plaza Castillo
Bar Monasterio, Espoz y Mina #11 at Europa Hotel
And on the street of the thousand bars, there's
Bar Baserri, San Nicolás #32
Bar Iru, San Nicolás #25 (which as a great 3 course menú del día for 15 euros)

There's a "De Pintxos por Pamplona" program, a voucher sold for 20 euros at participating bars (Estafeta, Iru, Gaucho, Baserri) that gives the bearer 4 special creative pintxos and 4 glasses of wine, for doing a pintxos crawl.

The Old Quarter of Pamplona is a walker's delight-very atmospheric. If you'd like to see the statue of San Fermín, he's kept in his Chapel in the church of San Lorenzo, on the way to lovely Taconera Park. There's a cute little Alpine looking tea house in the park behind the Hotel 3 Reyes, El Bosquecillo, which is a nice place to have a drink outside. Pamplona has an impressive amount of park space. The Ciudadela Park is particularly pretty.

The tourist office is located off the Plaza de San Francisco on the corner of Eslava, if you need it, or want to pick up some posters (some are free, other vintage ones they sell).

Have fun!

Thanks so much for this info about Pamplona, Maribel. I was having a hard time finding these kinds of details about the city in the guidebooks I have. My husband will be excited to read it. :)

Another thought came to mind, and I can't seem to find info on it in my Rough Guide Pyrenees... is there anything we should know about crossing the border via car from Spain to France, and then back to Spain? Will we need to show our passports, are there car searches, lines, etc.?

No, there are no searches EXCEPT at the border that you do want to avoid at all costs, going from Seu to Andorra, where cars are routinely searched and the short drive can take hours. Spanairds go in droves to the shopping malls of Andorra for cheap tabacco, fuel and electronics.
Where you plan to cross, you won't have to show a passport, as we didn't.

In case Maribel or anyone else checks back on this thread... is there anyplace especially worth stopping on this route from Peratallada to Ainsa: A7 to A2 to N240 to Barbastro, then N123 to A 138. We don't mind driving it straight through (it's about 5 hours), but we don't want to miss any particularly interesting sites (monasteries, ruins, etc.). Thanks!

Hi strass,
To make good time, I would do the A7-A2-N240 straight through and save my detours until Barbastro. Then I would definitely take the A 1232 (white road) for a magnificent detour to Alquézar, another Aragón village as dramatically perched and interesting as Aínsa but far less touristed because it's more remote-about a 20 km. detour from the N240 at Barbastro. Visit the Colegiata de Santa María, a castle-monastery. Open 10:30-1:30, 4-7:30 Mon.-Fri. and Sat. 10:30-1:30 only. If timing is right you could eat lunch at the Mesón del Vero on the square.

You could also access Alquézar south from Aínsa but the drive would be more challenging.

Thanks! I actually have Alquézar on my "maybe" list after seeing an amazing photo of it... so I'm glad to get these details.

Don't know if you booked a hotel for San Sebastian yet, but I would recommend the Hotel Londres y Inglaterra. There is nothing like walking out the door onto La Concha. Simply spectacular and the staff are very gracious.
Wherever I go, I love to tour the markets. You should definitely make a stop at Mercado del la Brecha. Sobles (Aldamar 1)is a great gourmet food store. Favorite pinxos: spider crab with anchovies, pigeon pie, fish pudding. Just point and eat. Save travels.
Just my two cents, but do not skimp and get an economy car. Those switchback mountain turns can be treacherous. Go with quality, horse power and an automatic if possible. We stalled so many times and thought we were going to roll all the way back to Barcelona! Safe travels.

Hello all. I'm hoping someone out there can help me out with some answers. In late March 07 I'm traveling to Bilbao and from there planning on driving to Barcelona, but I'd like to this via the Pyrenees. My question is, does anyone know how dangerous it is driving through the Pyrenees during the last week of March?

When I was planning my trip I found an old New York Times article online that made an early Spring trip sound pretty hairy. The author was surprised by a sudden snow and ice storm that left him and several other cars crawling along at 15 mph on slippery slopes.

I was there in May, and ended up crossing from Spain into France driving on a hairpin-turn road through the most dense cloud of pure white fog I have ever experienced. I hung my head out the car window and kept my front tire generally pointed at the white center line I could barely make out, and kept asking my husband: "What are you seeing out your window -- mountain or sheer drop?" Often he wasn't sure.

I probably wouldn't travel in the Pyrenees before May, and if I did, I wouldn't use the roads as a transit route when I needed to get from one place to the next by a certain time. I'd only go up if I knew it didn't matter if I didn't get down for a day or two.

It depends entirely on the route you plan to take. High or low?

naimad72.
You may want to start a new thread with your question on driving in the Pyrenees in March and provide us with a little more information on where you would like to visit/stay during your trip, which can easily be made in two days.

there is no way to know today what the exact mountain weather conditions will be.

i doubt you will be able to know until a few days ahead of time due to the possibility of extreme fog or snow dumps.

so just have plan b in place, as you may not feel comfortable driving under adverse conditions.
or you may be lucky and we have a heat wave, ruining all skiing possibilities.. but giving you a great driving experience.

if conditions are bad it is usually best to drive at warmest part of day.

lin is absolutely right. The weather in that part of the country has been totally unpredictable. Follow lin's advise and keep a contingency plan, a southern route, just in case. And the Michelin regional maps of Aragon-Catalunya and Navarra-Rioja-Basque Country are invaluable. I highly recommend them.

We just did 5 days in the french pyrenees and what you do not want is the large people carrier we were "up-graded" to. it was like driving a tank - poor visibility and just as manouverable.
A mid-size car with a bit of oomph will be fine, and much more practical.
Have fun!

I just drove across the Pyrenee's 2 weeks ago and was completely enthralled. I drive agressively and really enjoyed it. My wife on the other hand was grasping anything she could and was wishing she had a brake and steering wheel on her side. I definitely would not try it in March. Although the roads are better than anything in the US, most of the time they are 2 lanes at best and a magnificent view (straight down) for the passenger. We upgraded to a mid-size for extra power. BS

Bob,
Hope your trip went well and that you got to the lighthouses that you wanted to photograph!

I should add that I drove through the Pyrenees on other days that weren't foggy, and it was spectacular, although sometimes the heights made me feel I was driving a plane and not a car. And it can be tiring. Roads on the French side are marginally better than on the Spanish side -- although any time you get off the most direct routes, you find yourself driving some extremely steep switchbacks with no guardrails.

I also heard that in summer the high Pyrenees are subject to intense thunderstorms. The truth is, you are driving in the clouds. If it's not a cloudy day, great. But if you've got *weather* of any sort, it may be more than you're prepared for.

When I was driving in the fog I passed a couple of people who'd pulled over to wait it out. I assumed they lived there! I had a hotel reservation to get to, so I kept driving, figuring at some point (I was descending) I had to get below the cloud. I did, but if it had been snow, I wouldn't dared to continue.

On a perfectly sunny day on the French side, I was going down grades as steep as 8-10 percent. I wouldn't want to do it in anything but dry weather in a rental car.

naimad72,
What is your proposed itinerary or what would you like to see in the Pyrenees between Bilbao and Barcelona? That info will help us to help you. I assume you want to make the drive on the Spanish side.

There are mountain areas that are easily accessible (provided you have no rain or fog) with very good highways, and there are drives that are truly white knuckle. The drives into certain valleys of the Navarran Pyrenees are fairly tame and lower in altitude. The Aragonese Pyrenees in comparison are quite imposing, and there are certain routes in the Catalonian Pyrenees which are extremely serpentine and mean very strenuous driving, such as the stretch between Puigcerdá and Ribes de Freser in the Lleida province.
What spots were you hoping to visit in late March?

I did the stretch between Puigcerdá and Ribes de Freser. That's where I felt like I was flying when I came around some curves. It was stunning, especially since in spring it was so green the very air seemed green. But it was the kind of road where the Spanish put up a sign that indicates the various hazards one might face on the road, and for how many kilometers. On that road, you see signs that indicate rock slides, hairpin turns, cows, oncoming traffic in your lane, floods, slippery roads, etc. and then it says: 30 km. When you get to the end of the 30km, you get another sign with all the same hazards, and it says: 40km

You only want to do one of those every so often on a trip.

Interesting to know that that particular stretch hasn't improved not one bit!

There is nothing wrong with the road. It is extremely well maintained and graded. It just happens to be several thousand feet in the air, and short of blasting a tunnel straight through the mountains, I don't know how it could be made straight. The descent (from the peaks toward Ribes de Freser) was not steep. It was quite gradual.

I got used to the dizzying heights. It is the kind of road one should take if you have time to spare, because I regret not pulling over more often (there are lots of turnouts) to take pictures. Also, it feels safer to go about 30 or 40km per hour, and it's a long stretch. It was an incredibly brilliant, sunny spring day.

For me, the most difficult part of the driving was nearing the valley and its towns. The valley is somewhat populous, so one begins to encounter a lot of traffic, and the speed picks up and people who know the roads expect you to move along rather than gape at the scenery. So I felt under pressure.

Once you've take a few of the high mountain roads, they get addictive. I'm sorry in a way I didn't head all the way up to Andorra, but the day was overcast, so I thought it might be a bust. I've heard there is a road in the Pyrenees not far from San Sebastian with a 16 percent grade! But I cannot imagine trusting the brakes of a rental car for that one!