South Wales/ London 2022
 

I may have more start/stop vacation plans than any other Fodorite, and my little binder with information continually grows. I had asked this forum about a trip to the UK many years ago and life just got in the way of us actually being able to go. And that was even before the pandemic! I truly believe this time the stars are aligning, and if things continue to progress with this awful COVID situation, we are going to be able to make it.

We’re looking at late next May or possibly late June -trying to take advantage of the long weekends of either Memorial Day and the 4th of July. We thought we’d fly into London. Here’s my first tentative plan:

Day 1 arrive from overnight flight at Heathrow, take train to Cardiff. Explore Cardiff shaking off jet lag. Spend night in Cardiff. Is Cardiff a good spot to train to for the start of the Wales portion?
Day 2 rent car and head to our South Wales home base- explore area around there
Day 3 South Wales
Day 4 South Wales
Day 5 South Wales-Return car catch train back to London
Day 6 London
Day 7 London
Day 8 London
Day 9 London
Day 10 fly home

i would like to see what you all think of this initial plan. Also, get ideas on the timing- Is one month better than the other?- as well as accommodations, then places to see I’m starting to copy/ paste many threads about this area from searching the forum.

It will be myself, husband and two adult kids, a son and daughter. I will need to be budget conscious and realize that with four the bulk of our saved $ will go to accommodations. I just recently learned of the National trust properties. Are there any in Wales that you all would think is a good base? Also for London, any good selections with our mix of adults? Way back my daughter and I had investigated rooms through the universities there that opened some of the halls for tourists. She stayed in a flat in London during a study abroad trip, so we’re looking into that as well as using her previous experience as a little bit of a guide.

I’m excited about the prospect of seeing Wales! We originally thought about doing London then heading north, but she’s been to that region now, and all of us would love to spend time in Wales. For this trip we are going to center ourselves in the south of England. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice!

National trust can be very expensive. The YHA is far nicer than normal hostels and good value.

Thank you for the info on the YHW hostel option. I never considered that for us. Is the original thought of training into Cardiff upon arriving ok?

That would be easier! We’re coming from the east coast, so while it’s an overnight trip probably, and not as far as some have to fly, Even a little bit of less movement (and schlepping) would be good. I thought Cardiff would be a good compromise, but open to any other ideas. Would arriving on a Saturday morning work? The one thing I was thinking about was if we arrived Saturday am and checked into a hotel in Cardiff with our luggage, spent the night, could we then hire a car Sunday am to go to wherever we base ourselves? Are car rentals closed Sundays? Maybe we should arrive on a Friday? I’m trying to alleviate our kids taking more time off from work, but they could work it out if needed I hope.

What are your thoughts about end of May vs. end of June?

This is the site to check for university accommodation outside London:

https://www.universityrooms.com

I don't see anything for Cardiff for this summer, but they will list some other options that might not show up on the big sites.

In London I always use LSE, although I don't know how well they would work for a group:

https://www.lsevacations.co.uk/Home.aspx

The National Express coaches are comfortable, and would save schlepping your luggage around the train stations. Any special reason you are visiting south Wales rather than the north?

thursdaysd I’d like to be able to see both and tour London, but for the amount of time we have, 9 days on the ground, I just didn’t think it possible. The trip is a year away, 2022, so I’m doing some early planning. But I am sure some of these properties rent early. I prefer to have a home base and not have to resettle in various accommodations as well. We love the coastline so Pembrokeshire looks amazing, Breton Beacons, St. David’s, Cardiff Castle, they all appeal to us. But if you have an itinerary or way to fit more in up in beautiful North Wales, please share!

janis, you are so amazing! The number of travelers you have helped over the years, thank you! I’ll do that if we rent the car there. I was reading on another thread last night about the difficulties of driving in Wales. Is it harder than other parts of the UK? I’m the one who will be the driver- husband is a wuss ;) but I may be one too, if it proves to be too nerve wracking!

Driving in North Wales is similar to other hard to drive areas. You need to get to "feel" the width of your car, obey the rules and on single tracks (yes there are singles) start to watch out for the passing-spots so if you need to negotiate with another car you reverse if your passing spot is closer. On the upside, the hedges on the side of the road are softer in Wales compared to Cornwall on the down side there will be more escaped sheep on the road. As Brits we like to have the passenger alert to possible issues and reminding about possible problems. Good news, North Wales has less lunchtime drinking than the South so finding drunk drivers is less likely.

Are you planning on seeing Snowdonia? You could do an open jaw ticket and fly into Manchester, take in a Beatles tour of Liverpool, and then do Wales flying back out of London. We are doing a genealogy tour, husbands granny came from Holyhead so on our list. We also thought about a Rabbie's tour but seems like the rail system is very good in Wales so might do it ourselves. Rabbie does Wales tours from Manchester and London I think. Small bus. Be careful driving, I lost a friend in Wales over a year ago. She was driving to her house and we think she swerved to miss sheep. Tiny roads. You would need a large car with four adults and luggage.

I had the same thought as Macross about Snowdonia and flying into Manchester, although I would visit Chester rather than Liverpool.

The Pembrokeshire Coast is absolutely worth seeing, and if you're going to Cardiff I would include St. Fagan's open air museum (although it has been a looong time since I was there): https://museum.wales/stfagans/

I take it you know about the heritage railways? https://www.greatlittletrainsofwales.co.uk/ and https://railtracks.uk/wales

My last visit to Wales I was in the north, using public transport:

https://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com...stle-and-more/
https://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com...he-great-orme/

The trick to all travelling is to heavily restrict luggage especially when you have 4 adults. Trains get easier and cars stay small and economic. Take fewer toys, so maybe just a mobile not a laptop plus ipad and separate GPS. It might mean you have to do a few hours of laundry (YHA has access) but I recommend take clothes you were going to throw away and wear them once. The bag gets lighter and if you decide to buy stuff there is space in the bags. The shoes you might want for Wales and London are very different. London does not have many cobbles but you will still end up walking a lot (a big city) but Wales is really all about the country not the city. The UK has thousands of miles of country paths, open to all to use (maps and links exist) so get out in the country. London is full of parks and many free museums.

UK has school holidays and bank holidays at end of May so both London and the countryside can be busier then. School doesn't end for the year until mid-July so June perhaps not as busy. Weather may be a little better in June than May. Overall not a huge difference. So I would book based on what timing is easiest for your family and what flight prices you find.

This is one such footpath map https://footpathmap.co.uk

Hmmmm, now you all have me thinking differently about several things, thank you. I’m getting a bit anxious over the prospect of trying to drive (for the first time abroad) with my whole crew in tow. Macross, I’m very sorry for the loss of your friend.

i was under the assumption that if I based us in one town, having a car would be the most optimal option in terms of time and convenience to see a lot. But... If there were a way that we could do it by public transportation I’d probably be less stressed and happier. I’d readily forsake convenience for anxiety, but what would all suggest in that case?

again, your input is so appreciated!

OK -- I thought you were sticking to South Wales (picking up the car in Cardiff and all?) so not sure what the talk about Snowdonia and North Wales comes from. Driving in Wales is no harder than driving in the Cotswolds or Yorkshire or Scotland . . . and is a often a darn sight easier than driving in Cornwall.

Re Late May vis Late June . . . Late June every time! Bank holiday at the end of May means big crowds and more traffic. Then kids go back to school so crowds not much in the way of crowds til mid July.

With places like the glorious Pembrokeshire coast/St Davids, castles/Tintern Abbey, the Breacon Beacons etc etc you can have a terrific trip just in South Wales and London. Sure - North Wales IS great but I wouldn't second guess yourselves and re-imagine the whole plan. You could play 'what if' for months and people will continue to throw in new options til your head spins. London/South Wales is a perfectly reasonable choice.

Janis, yes my head is starting to spin! I feel like one of the lessons that is continually impressed upon is don’t try to do too much. So, yes, to me staying in South Wales would be preferable I believe. I know we could push it and be in the car a lot trying to traverse the whole area, but we’re more of a stay in one place or two , venture out, sightsee and come back “home”.

I think I could do the diving, I know I’m up for it for sure. I may google a few videos and tutorials in the meantime! Where in South Wales would be a good base after our first night in Cardiff? I was thinking Tenby? I really want to see the Brecon Beacons and my two bibliophiles would die for Hay on Wye. So after Tenby maybe somewhere up in that area for a couple nights before returning the car?

Your input about the late June arrival is better too for us if we were to look for LSE or other universities to stay in. So that part at least is settled! Lol

Tenby would be fine -- a neat smallish seaside town and an easy drive to places like St Davids. Especially if you pick the June time frame.

For another base -- maybe someplace like near Abergavenny. Then you'd be less than an hour from Hay-on-Wye, maybe 45 mins from Tintern, half an hour from Brecon, and convenient for lots of medieval castles like Caerphilly, Chepstow, White, Monmouth etc

On our last trip to Wales we stayed at The Bear in Crickhowell (near Abergavenny). https://www.bearhotel.co.uk We visited many of the sites janisj mentions above and found it convenient and congenial.

Thanks for the bear hotel tip. I think bc there are four (adults) of us, we may do better if we look for a cottage or flat type accommodation for this part of the trip. I’m seeing some in Abergavenny as well as on the coast. For example, There is a delightful cottage in Ferryside and another in saundersfoot. We are coast lovers so I’m drawn to these locations. Tenby seems to be a little bigger, busier? Is that correct? I also saw Camarthen that seemed centrally located. Are any of these locations better in terms of driving, convenience, beauty? After all the world has gone through this past year, I am so happy to be dreaming of traveling again. This region of the UK is so pretty on my iPad, I cannot imagine how it is in person!

Sorry for bringing up Snowdonia, just in love with that area.
I had to go find this link, we always said we could all get our own room here. https://www.premierinn.com/gb/en/hot...id=GLBC_CARROA

Staying on the coast appeals to me as well. I’d spend an entire vacation there, maybe another trip!
Here’s what I’ve come up with so far, but because of some of these properties requiring a 3 nite minimum stay I may have to adjust. I’d love everyone’s opinion.

Fly out Thursday
arrive early Friday, Day 1 National express to Cardiff. Spend night in Cardiff
Day 2 take public transport to Cardiff Airport, rent car. Drive to either Tenby, Burry Port or
Llanelli. Each has a pretty flat on flip key or Airbnb. A couple have 3 nite minimum (night 1 here)
Day 3 South Wales- visit sites of interest (night 2here)
Day 4 here’s the dilemma. I was planning on driving to Abergavenny here to use as the second base to explore. But if I settled on a flat that requires 3 nites, we’d need to stay for this day leaving just two days ( and really it’d be a day and a bit bc of the drive there) and a night in Abergavenny. For this itinerary let’s just say I found a place that allows 2 nights by the coast.
Day 5 Abergavenny- see sites around there
Day 6 drive to Cardiff airport and return car. Train back to London London nite 1
Day 7 london
Day 8 London
Day 9 London
Day 10 London
​​​​​​ Day 11 fly home from LHR

I would like to see what your thoughts were about this plan. Especially the part in Wales. Should we just try rework that first day, see Cardiff after we arrive and rent the car in the late afternoon to drive to the coastal base in order to secure that first night of the three minimum? Would it be enough time to only have the one night in Abergavenny? Should we subtract a day from London and make it three full days instead of four?

Any and all opinions are welcomed! Thank you all so much!

A few thoughts/options:

I would definitely NOT rent a car and drive that first day. That will be a real slog of a day with the overnight flight, arrival formalities, long coach ride and just plain acclimating.

Consider reversing the order and doing Cardiff > Abergavenny > Tenby > Cardiff. As it is you have the coast on a weekend and many places are more likely to allow shorter stays mid week. Also, if you do find a property with a 3 night minimum -- IME it is a good idea to phone them because sometimes they are willing to do fewer nights depending on what adjacent bookings they have..

Instead of a flat, consider staying in a hotel or B&B on the coast. Few would have more than a 2 night minimum.

Or you could cut one night from London and add it to Wales.

KandKsmom, I love watching Penelope Keith's British Village show on Amazon. I watched her Pembrokeshire one last night. It was very good and she is driving so will give you some perspective on the roads. The show was towards the end of season 2. She visits the area you are interested in btw.

I’ve been drilling down some on the plan of splitting Wales into two locations, and feel we would possibly be better off doing a hub and spoke type of tourism arrangement by selecting one base for the four nights after Cardiff then returning to car and heading back to London to finish out the trip.

I’ve seen several places of accommodation interest that are very central - maybe a bit more so than going as far West to base ourselves as Tenby. I would like to get feedback on them if you are so inclined. I used the aa drive time function and I think these all would put our trips under an hour and a half. The furthest spot is Hay on Wye. If we wanted to go to hay on wye we could maybe drive a loop up through Brecon Beacons on that last day before returning to Cardiff? I just think not having to drive to settle twice is best for our traveling style. We may have to sacrifice seeing a spot or two, but that’s what return trips are for, right? :) Here are the towns I am considering:

Burry Port-cottage
Llanelli- flat right on the water
Laugharne- cottage

Is there one town that is easier to navigate into, out of? Other information? Again, thank you all for taking your time to share your advice and thoughts!

Oh that’s a great suggestion! I didn’t know of that show! A Mother’s Day gift to me! I’ll watch this evening- thanks so much Macross!!

I honestly think your original plan of splitting between two bases - Tenby area and near Abergavenny is better than trying to do hub and spoke for the whole time. The roads are narrow and the range one can cover from one place will be limited. If you just wanted to tour coastal areas they'd be fine though.

Of the three I would definitely avoid Llanelli. It is a pretty large town - about 40,000 population.

But in yourdecision making, factor in that ALL of the on-line mileage calculators are overly optimistic. No way you could get to Hay on Wye from say Burry Port in 90 minutes. Best case I'd count on is 2 hours. 2.5 hrs wouldn't be out of the question. So you are talking 4 to 5 hours just for the round trip drive and that would mean you wouldn't have the chance to see anything else en route or back. If Hay-on-Wye is one of the musts as you said up thread -- then you need to stay at least some time up in that general area.

Navigation is easy, getting there at the speed that the AA thinks is normal is less easy.

Thanks Janis and biloburgler, your input is invaluable. I’m going back and forth with this. Honestly I can see why people make a vacation to just Wales a choice. That idea has even crossed my mind. I’m such an outdoors, landscape oriented person and love small intimate towns and country. It just seems almost blasphemous to come to the UK and not go to London. I’m thinking either sticking with the original or just doing Wales. I did find a couple of B & Bs as well as some flip key and Airbnb owners who would go for a two night stay. That’s good news for that scenario. Thanks so much again!

Very easy fix IMO. You have 11 nights. Cut London to 3 or 4 nights and add the time to Wales. You'd have one night in Cardiff and 3 or 4 nights in the two bases on the SW coast and the Abergavenny area.

That solves just about every dilemma -- no two night stays, no long day trips, chance to see a lot more in Wales, still a usable time in London.

Make things simple . . .

I think that wasn't as clear as I intended ". . . and staying 3 or 4 nights in each of the two bases . . ."

I think it’s only 10 nights if my calculations are correct. June 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, July 1, 2, 3. If I decided on 3 in one Wales city and 2 in another, which city would be best for the 3 nights? For the 2 nights? (Abergavenny or Tenby or Burry Port or another coastal choice)

For sites, we’d like to see the Brecon Beacons, Hay on Wye, maybe Tintern, Chepstow out that way, st. David’s, Pembrokeshire, maybe the Gower Peninsula on the coast.

What if we trained from LHR to Abergavenny upon arrival. Picked up car. Spent three night nights there.
Drove to Tenby, spent three nights. Drop car off in Tenby. Then trained back to London for 4 nights. We would skip Cardiff, but could maybe drive to see it if we chose as part of a day trip from Abergavenny?

Are there car rental places near the Abergavenny train station? Could a drop off occur in Tenby?




If we drove from Cardiff to I was wondering if it would be helpful to do a one way rental and drop off at Tenby before training back to London. More $$ for the rental, but it would be a five hour train ride (from my checking) in comparison to a 2 hour drive +/- from Tenby to Cardiff and a 3 hour train trip back to London so it seems to be equitable.

Oh shoot! I wanted to delete that whole bottom paragraph and didn’t see it until it was too late to edit! Please disregard or stop reading after the question about a rental car drop off in Tenby! My apologies!

Hidden Villages

If you have amazon prime on tv it is available still. I could listen to her talk all day long. I had one complaint with the sound as sometimes the music was so loud.

FWIW, we were in Wales for 3 weeks a couple years ago, planned to rent a car for 10 days but were so freaked out driving those narrow windy roads that we turned it back in after only 3 days of driving. The nice folks at the rental agency said it happens all the time. Of course we might just be chicken poop and you'll do fine, but the lesson was don't overestimate what is doable. We had to radically scale back, with or without the car. Still there's more than enough to see. Have a great trip.

Edit: Bummer, Penelope Keith's Hidden Villages is "unavailable in my location".

"Of course we might just be chicken poop " . . . ^^^ this ;)

KandKsmom: Once in a while someone does pop in to say "EEK - don't do it!!! Too scary. Couldn't manage" -- but the vast majority of Yanks manage just fine. Honest. :angel:

Now, Don't think in terms of 'cities'. Other than Cardiff, the places we've talked about about are either small towns, very small towns or small villages. Even Abergavenny which is the largest place on your itinerary is barely 12,000 people. It isn't like there are car rental places on every (or any) street corner. Most towns / villages do not have rental agencies of any kind and definitely not national ones where you can do one-way hires. That is why I specifically suggested renting a car at CWL. All the big brands are there. You aren't going to find a Hertz or Budget or Avis in Tenby or Abergavenny where you can drop the car. One other option would be to pick up the car at CWL, keep it and drop it at LHR (where again all the national brands are) and take a car service or public transport in to London. Abergavenny to LHR is about a 3 hour drive.

Been talking seriously to family about this trip and how to manage the traveling. Husband is not an avid traveler- thank goodness my kids enjoy it as much as me! He’s decided he is going to sit this one out and take care of our dogs- one of which will be almost 11 be then. Anyway, he’s concerned-as am I if I’m totally honest- about driving. It’s not just the fact that it’s different from here, but I wonder if I would enjoy my time as much if I’m so concentrated on the roads, signs, staying out of trouble. Everyone has their comfort zone and the more I think about it, maybe I’m biting off more than I can chew at my age. I’ve asked the kids if they’d want to drive and they were not jumping at the chance either, plus neither can drive a manual and the automatics are quite a bit more money.

So, I’ve been looking at the 5 day Wales Rabbies tour for us. It hits most of the big attractions we were hoping to see and more even because they add in two nights in North Wales. We could fly into London and arrive on Friday, get a one night hotel near the pick up area and see a days worth of London shaking off jet lag before starting the tour on Saturday morn. Return and go to our London home base for the rest of the trip.

I know many folks on this site have posted favorable reports about Rabbies. Has anyone been on this particular tour? I think I would like to pick our own accommodations so we can find one that the three of us can share a room.

I’m feeling more comfortable with this decision already. Thanks to all who are continually helping me work through this!

Good for you. I grew up in England, and drove a manual for several years before moving to the US, but I haven't driven there on a trip since 2004. I need an automatic these days, and they're expensive and not guaranteed, and I don't need the stress, even though navigating is simpler with GPS. I use public transport, but the Rabbies tours look interesting.

I think you are doing the right thing. Enjoy your trip, have a pint for lunch though I hear the cider there is great. We are thinking about Rabbies also. My friends did a Scotland tour with them from Edinburgh and loved it. They picked their own accommodation with approval from them. They want you to be close to pick up and drop off locations. My husband said he won't drive there so it is train and bus or Rabbies for us. He can drive but he hates being stressed with the responsibility. It is vacation after all.