Some Scathing Comments About Florence - We Would Like to Hear Some Other Perspectives!
 

I am reading Bill Bryson’s “Neither Here Nor There – Travels in Europe”. It’s a pleasant enough book – very low on the details or depth, but funny and light. Low and behold, I came across a rather scathing report on Florence. It has DW and I shaking our heads and wondering if Florence (which we choose over visiting Trentino Alto Adige) was the very best choice after all. We will of course not be changing our plans but... we would like to be realistic about our expectations so we aren’t disappointed

Now BEFORE you defenders of Florence get upset – we are sure there are many wonderful things about Florence – we would just like to hear about some of them from those that have been! Throughout our planning process we’ve had trouble picturing the scope and attractiveness of the streets etc.

Mr. Bryson had a few qualms (there was also a lot of mention on the unbelievable wealth of treasures, so he was not all negative). I should note he visited in April – we will going in late May.

“You wonder how many people one city can absorb....the annual ratio of tourist to locals is 14:1”

“Nowhere is the decline in quality in Florence more vivid than on the Ponte Vecchio....it was covered with people selling semi-crappy items....and the crowds among them were unbelievable.

“Even when I made allowance for the hordes of tourists, I couldn’t help feeling that much of it was tawdrier than any city this beautiful and historic and lavishly subsidized by visitors like me had any right to be”.

“The city fathers of Florence could do a great deal more to ease the pressures – like allow museums to be open for more than a couple of hours a day, so that everybody doesn’t have to go at once”.

“There was litter everywhere and gypsy beggars constantly importuning and street vendors cluttering every sidewalk.....you don’t so much walk around Florence as pick your way among the obstacles. “Everything seemed dusty and in need of a wash. The trattorias were crowded...and often unfriendly. Nobody seemed to love the city. Even rich people dropped litter without qualm.

“It was the gypsies who got to me the most. They sit along almost every street calling out to passers-by, with heart-breakingly filthy children of three and four stuck on their laps, made to sit there for hour after hour just to heighten the pathos.”

I’m sure it didn’t add to Mr. Bryson’s impression of the city that he got robbed on the way back to the train station. We appreciate his perspective, regardless of whether in the end it reflects our own.

We are just posting to hear some other opinions and thoughts.

BB is not known for understatement. I'll even go out on a limb and say that not everything he writes is exactly true.

I can't comment about a spring visit, as I was there in January. But on New Year's Eve, Florence was indeed very crowded, but not so pathetic as described in that snippet.

We have diverse opinions in our house. My wife loves it and has been 5 times---thrice with her girl friends. I find it just too crowded for my taste---too many people in a small space, and many of them being herded in groups. As Yogi would say, " no one goes there anymore, it is too crowded".

The first time I visited Florence, I nearly hated it. It was humid, hot and crowded, then it rained hot rain and made it even worse. The second time I went I was surprised that I didn't hate it but was actually enjoying it. The third time I went back because I had decided that I loved it and I still do, I go every year or so to that area.

I came to love it for the history of the people and their buidings. I had to develop a sense of walking where the Medici had walked, lived and worked. I read up on their history which is entwined in the makings of that city of course.

I got off the main roads, walked in the surrounding hills, shuffled in the leaves, breathed in the air. In other words I went not in high season and changed my attitude and expectations. I talked to the artisans in side streets. I walked in the areas where the locals actually live and dine.

Just standing by the palaces, walking by the Strozzi and examining the rocks that it is built of, blows me away.

Many people don't like Florence but that is OK. I am not that fond of Bryson's writings anyway.

I loved Florence. I prefered over Rome by a landslide.

I loved how walkable the entire city was. With a good map you can get all around.

I loved how beautiful I felt the city was... to me it was truly magical.

Was it crowded? Yes, I suppose it was - not Disneyland crowded though.

We were there in July and the weather was truly lovely (I heard we were very lucky).

I LOVED I mean LOVED the food...

Over looking the Orno - watching the sunset - I don't know - it did not get much more special to me.

I loved the history - I was in the middle of reading Agony and Ectasy - and was in AWE standing in front of the David...

My cousin has literally traveled the entire world and Florence is a magical city to her as well...

SeaUrchin - I have English Lit on the brain (see: mid term was today) and when I read your post I thought you said "I am not that found of Byron's writings anyway) (Thinking of Lord Byron!!)

Florence will always have a special place in my heart - I met my wife there while we were both studying at the University of Florence.

On a beautiful September day a few years ago we returned for the first time, arriving by car as we were staying in an agriturismo in the Tuscan countryside.

It was a major disappointment to both of us. The swarming hordes of tourists made it very unpleasant as we tried to refresh our memories while making our way about the city. By late afternoon we were glad to be on our way...

I read those quotes as if they are from someone who loves a person who is abusing herself and is heartbroken about it.

many of the things he says about Florence are totally true - and some are exaggerated.

For instance - limited admission hours DOES mean the museums are crammed to the rafters . . . . .

Oh no, I love Bryon!

Bryson seems to seek out all negativity from a place. I quit reading his books.

Maybe Bryson hit a bad patch or had a singular experience that soured him. Florence is a wonderful city, although like Sea Urchin, I wasn't terribly impressed by my first visit. We visited in June, and although the temperatures weren't oppressive, the crowds were overwhelming. We arrived early to line up for the Uffizzi, and we enjoyed our museum visit. However, when we returned to the streets in late morning, there were tour leaders everywhere shepherding (or should I say sheep-herding) crowds of apparently shell-shocked tourists through the streets. All the tour groups were nationalized, and the tour leaders held poles aloft to guide their flocks. Here a Japanese flag, here a German flag, here a Union Jack. We tried to outflank the crowds to see a few more of the main attractions, but it wasn't until late afternoon that the crowds thinned out to a manageable level. Nonetheless, we were relieved to drive back to the small town south of Florence where we were staying and where the crowds were thin and mainly local.

We have since returned to Florence on two other occasions, and each time we've enjoyed it more. We haven't had ambitious plans, perhaps just one main attraction each day and a lot of exploring time on these other trips to Florence. Each time it has been more fun as we've explored the hills and the back streets. We've preferred home bases in smaller towns, but on our next visit, we'll look for a place in Florence, so we can wander her streets in the evenings and in the early morning hours, when I expect that they are at their best. I'll agree with Bryson that the Ponte Vecchio may not be Florence at its best. I think I enjoy observing the Ponte Vecchio from a distance rather than strolling over it, but otherwise, it's a great city. Enjoy!

One memory comes to mind for me, paying 9 Euros for gelato on the Ponte Vecchio. Others have paid 12, it's kind of a running joke for Florence. I like Florence, but it's very expensive and tourists are often taken for a ride. It's hard to see authentic Italy there unless you really, really seek it out. But it's like Rome, it's a must see for sure, but I wouldn't personally spend more than 3 full days there. I liked wondering out of the city core into some of the back street neighborhoods. I have lovely memories of those walks. I remember the food was much better, more authentic, and better priced outside of the city core. We stayed at a really nice pensione in that area which was a significant walk to the main area of town, but it was nice to get out of all the buzz of the city center. I have never seen rats so big in my life as we did near the river we had to pass to go back to our room, I thought they were badgers-LOL These were of course not in the city but near the river, I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression.

We did a "food crawl" with a lovely tour guide from America who lives in Florence for many years now - she gave us GREAT tips on where to eat - the best of "this" or "That" what stores to shop in etc. It was one of our favorite tours the entire time in Europe.

It was through Context - highly recommend it.

SeaUrchin - glad to hear it :-). Lord Byron was something else...

He wrote that book YEARS ago.
And he's not a travel writer, he's a humorist. Take all of him with a grain of salt.

Not that some of it isn't true. And there have been posts on Fodors by people who just loathed Florence.

What I can't get over is how all that stuff he mentions is so superficial. It's like people going "OMG, le Mont-St-Michel was just teeming with tourists and you should have seen the crappy souvenirs being touted at every turn." Yes, well, it's been that way for a few hundred years. It's a PILGRIMAGE site, and there have always been hordes of people and tacky souvenirs.

Same thing with Florence, but does that type of stuff really overshadow the wealth of art and architecture and history and culture? I guess it does if you're only looking at the surface.

Florence- I have been there several times and also studied French and Italian Art there one college semester back in 1971.
I went back this past summer with a friend and realized how much I do not like this particular Italian city. It is filled with tons of USA college students;tons of various tour groups and no where to move. It has become (in my opinion) the "Wisconsin Dells" of Italy-too many tourists,T-shirt shops and overpriced stuff.
I am glad that I saw and visited it before it gotten taken over...........There are many wonderful things to see and do in Florence but have a plan B when the lines get long.Personally, I would head up to the hills of Fiesole above Florence for a respite!

Favorite Italian places-Rome(yeah, I know you either love or hate that too),Torino(Piedmont) and my favorite-SICILY!!!

dutyfree - I missed out on the love of Rome... dh and I hope to get to Sicily someday!

We did the requisite Rome, Florence, Venice, Milan route as it was our first time to Italy. We were there in early June and never felt that it was overcrowded. The weather was great, not too hot and humid. While I remember the gypsies I can't say they impacted me in a negative way, but I live in NYC. However, moving on to Venice and on returning home we decided Florence was underwhelming. I think we felt we had spent too much time there, 4 days. But the more we've reminisced since our time there the more we would like to go back to Florence. I can't get out of my head the narrow streets and outside neighborhoods where we had a terrific Bistecca Alla florentine and pasta with sausage and mushrooms. Then being at the central market at 10 am eating boiled beef sandwiches and having wine with the locals. Plus we need new shoes. I had to get rid of the ones I bought there and wound up at Botticelli, but they are just not as nice as my Florence shoes were. While we didn't get it while we were there we now think it shouldn't be missed. OH, and there's the museums.

We've never been to Florence in high season (except for my visit in the summer of 1963 when I was 12!), so I can't relate to the disappointment of others who choose to go there when it sounds more like a mosh pit than a Renaissance jewel. I've spent a few months there in total over many trips and many years, and we've tossed around the idea of leasing or buying an apartment in or near the historical center. I can't get enough of the place, and still feel I haven't seen all of its treasures.

P.S. We've seen many more begging gypsies in Rome than Florence but fewer even in Rome in recent years. Ditto the litter problem, although Naples currently holds the record. There are people selling semi-crappy items in most of the larger cities, but they wouldn't be selling this stuff if tourists weren't buying, so it's hardly fair to put all the blame on the cities.

I love Florence when there are no crowds, but I am afraid that Bryson is also dead on when it is crowded.

We were in Tuscany last May and could have seen Florence then, but the pictures of the crowds turned me off and it was over 100F.

We enjoyed the beauty of the Chianti hills and enjoyed time in an awesome water park ( we travel as a family).

Still, we did not want to miss the fantastic art of Florence and knew we would be back in the area in late October.

It was snowing on the day we arrived! Then a rainbow came out and much of our visit we had sublime weather, although we did get some rain.

It was a great time to see Florence.We could walk and walk with no body around.

If you can not handle suffocating crowds, Florence is best seen now in the off season...meaning very late fall or winter. You can actually see the city because it is not jam packed with tourists.

The Uffitzi was still packed in very late October, but every where else was lovely.


I have heard it is jam packed in May with endless tours. If you do not mind extreme crowds, it won't be a problem.

It is a beautiful city full of art, but for my taste, the crowds ruin it, so I would only go far off season.

DO see a great dvd called “The Medici, Godfathers of the Renaissance” by PBS. A must see before going!!

I won't say hated Florence, but I think Bryson had the same experience I did. I was so disappointed-it felt like a Renaissance theme park. The city center, at least, wasn't just crowded-in March-but teeming! Of course, it was worth the trip for the Uffizi, and the Accademia, and the churches, but we had to cross the river and wander for a while to feel like we were in Italy again, and my expectations had been so high.

Love Florence! Hate the crowds (and the heat in summer). My solution? - stay away from the crowds. I visited the Academia and Uffizi in January; the Museum d'Opera in June. No crowds either time. We were the only people in the church where Dante's wife is interred (June). We were the alone both times we visited the del Sarto frescos. The disadvantage of the less visited times is there isn't always anyone to ask questions of but there are usually brochures of explanation available for a small donation. We ate in no restaurant that we found in a guide book listing and had amazing food. We found them by asking shop people in the neighborhoods we were exploring.
It is a super walkable city.

I've only been to Florence one time, spent a week last April. I was unsure at first, but every day I grew to love it more and more. The longer I stayed the more I loved it. I definitely want to go back someday, in January or February, for as long a time as possible.

It does get extremely crowded. The streets are very narrow, the buildings are densely packed, there is a lot of traffic and all the noise echoes off the buildings and gets magnified- the streets can be like tunnels sometimes.

One thing is, the crowds all stay on the extract same streets in the exact same areas at the exact same times. Florence gets A LOT of daytrippers, and they are all there to see the same things- the Duomo, the Accademia, and the Uffizi. I found it wasn't too difficult to escape the crowds by walking on alternate streets; don't always take the most obvious route to your destination. Going for walks in the early morning and at night is wonderful, when the crowds are gone.

Getting to museums first thing in the morning, right at opening, made a big difference too. We reserved an 8:30am entry for the Uffizi. It was busy for sure, but not enough to negatively affect our visit. We did one corridor, walked down to the rooftop cafe for an early lunch, and then doubled back to complete the second corridor. We ate at about 11-11:00am, and we easily got a table outside, without having to wait.

The Bargello and San Marco were virtually empty first thing in the morning, and we really enjoyed spending time in the courtyards, when the air was still fresh and cool. By noon these museums are quite busy, though not approaching Uffizi and Accademia levels. The Oltrarno, across the river, is a great neighbourhood to explore to get away from the crowds. I would love to stay in that area next time.

We had the Piazza della Signoria to ourselves at dusk, plus it was beautiful seeing it in the sunset. On another day, coming out of the Uffizi at about 1:30pm, it was a literal sea of people, I don't know how anyone moved. So time of day does make a huge difference.

As for the Ponte Vecchio, it can't be taken seriously. To me it looks like jewelry shops in Little India, or like dollar stores that are fancy and flashy. Chav heaven, my sister called it.

I didn't notice anyone littering. Streets with a lot of restaurants certainly had a fair amount of litter by late in the evenings, but trucks came by collecting garbage and cleaning the streets every night. I found Florence to be as clean as any city, nothing remarkable I can think of in terms of litter or dirt (I though England had more litter, actually)

Don't think I saw any gypsies. I saw typical gypsies panhandling and singing in the metro in Paris several years ago, but not Florence. The African street vendors are there, of course, you'll see plenty of threads about them. My experience was they just leave you alone if you walk by. Sometimes things get crowded- I had no qualms about (carefully)stepping over the stuff displayed on the white sheets if there was little room to go around, or squeezing between vendors, etc.

People's tolerance for that sort of crowding varies, of course. I live in a big city and it doesn't bother me that much, I'm used to dealing with things like that. I think people used to smaller towns might find it more difficult to shrug off or adjust, depending on temperament, etc. Don't be afraid to be assertive (always polite of course) and don't get freaked out by it, there is always way to move through a throng of people and get somewhere else.

As for safety and pickpockets, I am usually pretty aware of myself and my things anyways, so I was just the same in Florence as I am at home. Never had any problems, in fact it never really entered my mind that I needed to especially worry about pickpockets or thieves. I carried my purse like I do at home, I don't use a moneybelt or anything.

Oh, and the most we ever paid for gelato was 3 euros. Most places charge 2 or 2.50 euros. Don't buy from a place that doesn't have its prices clearly marked on a sign. If you don't see the prices, keep walking. My favourites for gelato were Carabe and Gilli's, both 2.50 euros if I remember correctly.

Having been to Florence many times, and stayed for a week or so on some of those trips, I can say I love it and will go back at the first chance.

Some of the things I love are the opportunities to see people living their lives in ways so different from my own: a festa for kids in costumes in a small piazza; a Renaissance foot race and cheering young men.

If you really want to enjoy yourself, go off the beaten path. If there are special exhibits, definetly go to them. The Strozzi often has special exhibits. Stroll the Boboli gardens, don't miss San Marco, the Mercato Centrale, get across the river to the various churches, markets and chapels. Spend time in the cloisters and gardens at Santa Croce.

There is so much to see. Research pays off. Oh, I saw the suggestion above to get out and walk in the hills around the city: that is a favorite activity of ours.

I have on a pair of earrings right now from the Ponte Vecchio. I didn't see anything there but fantastic, if expensive, jewelry stores. No one selling crap.

I think the food is fantastic, and will happily make recs, and the shopping is my favorite.

Yes, it is an ancient and somewhat crowded city.

We visited Florence in May 2004 – unfortunately, a cold and rainy May, but loved the city. Yes, lots of tourists, but not more than in other big European cities.
Yes, I have to agree with Bryson about the gypsies – probably the town where we saw the most of them, or the most aggressive ones (never been to Rome, though). There were long lines to the Academia and Uffizi, but that was also because the rain, when people probably wanted to be ‘inside’.

In any case we loved Florence, the food was great (I still remember a papardelle dish with rabbit meat, and a glass of wine, maybe two, in a restaurant by the river), and would go back in a heartbeat, hoping for nicer weather :)

I love Florence. I have had the fortune to be able to visit it 4 times in the past 12 years. Not one single time was I disappointed. In fact each time I find more to love and appreciate. My husband and I were there for 4 days in the middle of May in 2007. I hate hot weather and don't do well in it at all and I was not uncomfortable at any point. Crowded, yes but I don't think nearly as crowded as summer. We did not see one single gypsy...and we walked everywhere. Florence, in my belief, can handle large numbers of people. We didn't visit the Uffizi this trip but every other "sight" we took in was very manageable crowd-wise, in fact I would say the crowds were not huge at all. At sunset the Ponte Vecchio was indeed quite crowded as everyone wanted to get a photo. But it was festive and fairly orderly - we had no problem getting our photo op.
I can't imagine someone paying 9 euros for a gelato???? We endulged at least twice daily and I would say never paid over 3 euros.
Never waited for a table at a trattoria.
No doubt Florence is a popular destination - it is a big city - but if visited in months other than June, July, August, I cannot imagine someone not absolutely falling in love with this jewel.

We paid 9 euros for a gelato on the Ponte Vecchio, as we weren't paying attention to what we were doing. I would have waited if I'd bothered to look at the price list! However when I got over the shock, I consoled myself by thinking "what the hell, I'm on the Ponte Vecchio!!" Later in the day we had fab gelato at Vivoli which I would thoroughly recommend.

I've visited Florence in March when we had it to ourselves; in July when it was wall-to-wall people; and in October, when it was crowded, but not insane. I've had different experiences in Florence, depending most of all upon <i>me</i>, and where my head is at when I'm there. I could certainly never wave my hand dismissively about a place as extraordinary &amp; as artistically rich as Florence. In fact, I don't see how anybody who has any aesthetic sensibility at all can not like Florence. In any case: never, ever let one person's opinion -- even that of a &quot;well-respected&quot; writer/observer -- discourage you from an experience. (And Bryson seems to be a bit of a control freak, anyway...not the best quality for a traveler in Italy!)

Wow! We went out with friends and came back to all kinds of interesting responses.

Thank you all for your thoughts - we've discussed it at length and feel better about the whole thing. We had already decided to spend lots of time in gardens and areas outside the center. We also have at least one day trip planned (San Gimignano) and wouldn't be heartbroken at all to head to Orvieto for the day if we feel overwhelmed by the crowds.

Its interesting to hear the diversity of thoughts!

I absolutely loved San Gimignano and hope you do too. It wasn't as crowded as Florence when we visited in May 2006, busy but not too bad.

Florence is the one Italian city I really didn't care for, and it had nothing to do with the points in Bryson's writings. I even prefer Naples over it, and that's saying something. However, the surrounding hillsides and Tuscany beyond are lovely. If you find that you don't care for Florence, the good news is that you can easily escape to something more pleasant.

I'm sure you'll enjoy your visit and I would agree that some of what he says seems pretty realistic..the crowding, etc., although I'm not sure I agree about the &quot;Gypsies&quot; since sometimes it is hard to tell them apart from travelers doing their utmost not &quot;to look like a tourist.&quot;

Venice is the same way in terms of crowding...but people flock to certain locations for a reason (which is usally a good one)....going out in Florence as at the dreaded (by some folks here) San Marco is often more magical in late afternoon and in the evening when many of the others have vanished.

I visited Florence for the first time in the Summer of 1980. Since then I have visited it 5 or 6 other times, the last one in 2006. Each time I found the city dirtier, more crowded, chaotic and less enjoyable. Of course , it still houses the same treasures. But I don't find the city in itself to provide the atmosphere and quality I look for.

It does not draw me in anymore. I was lucky to see its treasures under better circumstances.

As St Cyr said, remember that Bryson is a humorist, first and foremost.

Also, remember that most conventional travel writing is schlock, generally overstating the merits and glossing over the shortcomings of a place.

That is why it is so open to satire. PJ O'Rourke did a wonderful job in <i>Holidays in Hell</i>, especially the devastating essay &quot;Among the Euro-Weenies.&quot; (You'll never look at Europe in quite the same way again after reading it.) Mark Twain's <i>The Innocents Abroad</i> may be the ur-text for this sort of thing, and is still hilarious today.

We all travel with preconceptions. When you get past those and the see the place for what it is, the contrast can provide fertile ground for both humor and dismay.

Sorry, that is of course StCirq -- apologies.

Hi N,

Well, I looked up the book.

It seems Bryson visited some places in 1972-73 and then went back in the 90's.

Guess what, things had changed.

Our last visit, we spent 11 nights in Florence - 6 of them devoted to the city.

We loved it.

The tour buses arrive about 10 and leave about 4:30.

Schedule yourself accordingly.

((I))

You're right...9euros gelato on one of the most famous bridges in the entire world...absolutely worth it!!

Florence was my favorite place that I visited in Italy. It was not nearly as crowded and big as Rome. Florence is very artsy and the architecture is amazing. I left Florence saying “this is somewhere that I could live.” It was so easy to get around and you could walk everywhere.

I did however go there in early March which is not peak tourist season, so that could have made the difference.

Florence could be better with less tourists and longer museum hours, it's true. However, it's still an amazing city with sights and experiences unlike any other. There is an ongoing Catch-22 with popular tourist places. They're popular because they're beautiful, historical, etc. A hell-hole of a town might remain unspoiled, because who'd want to visit there?

Several years ago I was in Florence with my parents, and my mom (athletic mid 60's) and I still talk about our climb up to the the Duomo's dome together and the view from the top. We'll never forget it.
I think you'll love Florence, and you're lucky you're going in May instead of mid-summer when there's even MORE tourists!

After visting different parts of Italy, I find myself drawn to smaller towns and villages, and perhaps B.B. is the same way. That doesn't mean that a large city like Florence isn't worth seeing, though.

I love Italy but must admit that Florence is not a favorite of mine. Actually of all the places I've had the opportunity to visit in Europe Florence is one of the few that I have no desire to return to.

I'm not sure what it is. It is a beautiful city, and many love it. I guess we failed to get to that point. I found it so very crowded (and we were there in late February) and congested that I felt claustrophobic. We are more into history than art, so perhaps that had something to do with it. We then went to Rome and fell in love, so the trip ended on a happy note.

Tracy

What history did you miss in Florence? Just curious because I can get dizzy from all the historical sites there.

I do think people either love or hate Florence, more than the other cities. I wonder why.