I doubt if they were sharing drugs with them in public outside a train station - wine yes and yep they probably were drugged. Beware anyone coming up to you in Rome - especially Gypsy kids who act playful but are pickpocketing you - the cops arrest them but have to release them - a revolving door.

On a more appropriate budget (say, $4500 to $7500 for 2 months), perhaps $870 for a rail pass is a "good deal", in the sense that you can travel a lot of miles (and sleep sitting up, a target for a thief).

But when the budget doesn't allow for even basic food and lodging, about $700 of this $870 is being spent stupidly.

What these travelers REALLY need to do is go to ONE country, and spend about $150 <u>maximum</u> on transportation <i>within</i> Europe. As GAC posts here almost every few weeks, $150 could buy a half dozen trips, the length and breadth of Italy, with a little bit of planning.

When these two teens run out of money, and are sleeping on the couch of some Molvanian &quot;girlfriend&quot; they just met (who turns over 70% of what she makes a night to some thug), and realize they need mom or dad to shell out the extra $500 so that they can change their flights and get back home - - then the $870 spent won't look so good, no matter how many thousand mind-numbing miles of train travel it bought (or could have, if they had been able to stay the whole two months).

Even a Eurail Youth Flexi at $471 would have been spending too much...

Moreover, even working at McDonald's for a month would have meant $3000 (i.e., an extra $1000) to spend on a four week trip - - instead of $2000 for eight weeks.

re rail pass: I agree that no matter what it buys, or how great a bargain, it is too big a percentage of the total budget already spent and they aren't even there yet!

My worry it that it sounds like the airline ticket is already purchased, which means the 2 month timeframe committed to. And the train pass purchased. No turning back or changing to a shorter amount of time to make the budget do-able.

At this point, I think the only reasonable thing is for the kids to raise more spending money pronto if they want to pull this one off.

A few months ago I asked the forum about saving money in Rome. I got many good tips, including the great advice to &quot;not order coke&quot;. This should help their money stretch farther.

Hope they have a fun and safe trip!

So much great information! Yes, the airline ticket and Eurail pass are already purchased (was a graduation gift from his parents who have never been out of the USA, thus I was dragged into the whole picture...not voluntarily!)

I hadn't broken down the $2,000 into a per day basis...POVERTY! This is the money that he has saved while working part time in High School. I definitely realize he's going to need more. He is going to use ATM card not cash.

The sound of &quot;free wine&quot; would really perk his interest so I need to caution him on the gypsies. I remember seeing them often in Spain, guess they're everywhere. Keep supplying info if something pops into your mind. I really appreciate YOU!!!

Hi pet,

&gt;.....I'm helping my 18 year old nephew plan a 2 month trip in July ...&lt;

Well, you have a problem right there.

&gt;.. taking $2,000 USD for this trip &lt;

That's $33 (28E/day) That might cover a bunk in a hostel.

I agree with Rex, 3 weeks is a better idea.

Return the railpass for a refund.
By train tickets as needed or fly on cheap airlines.

Visit London, Paris and Rome
or Paris, Rome and Barcelona,
or Paris, Prague and Berlin.

((I))

I'm trying to help but his trip is cast in stone as far as airline dates, Eurail pass. He's actually staying with a friend in Stockholm for 1 week and a different friend in Madrid for a week (still agree he will need more $ though!) This is a trip he's been saving for and planning for a year. I'm only the Aunt who was recently brought into this since his parents have never travelled outside the USA. Remember, it's my nephew and not my own child so I can offer opinions and suggestions that may or may not be acted upon. I just ordered Lets Go Europe and Lonely Planet on Amazon so at least this will be a help I'm sure. I really appreciate all the GREAT HELP I've always received here!!

For some reason, I think getting him to wear a money belt may be an obsticle to overcome (it deosn't sound very &quot;male 18 year oldish&quot; )but I'm going to try to insist on that!

Hi p,

&gt;I think getting him to wear a money belt may be an obsticle to overcome ...&lt;

Don't worry about that. If he is at all like the young people at the University where I used to labor, he will go to an ATM every time he needs $10.00

Frequent trips to the ATM are pretty expensive if the bank charges a fee (often $5).

Does this ever sound like a case of too many cooks. Your nephew will be fine on his two month trip. He'll connect with other kids and he'll manage. The one thing you might get from this post is that he's going to need more money. He has a couple of weeks to figure out how. He should get busy. The best thing you can do is give him a list of tips: Get money from ATM judiciously, Avoid pickpockets, keep his belongings close... you know the drill. Buy him a moneybelt and maybe he'll use it. I've seen kids with the around the neck pouches.

This will be an eye opening and life changing experience for him.

They can get expensive, but I also know young people who go to the ATM a lot for every $20. I don't know why, I think they like to think they aren't spending as much money that way.

I can see the moneybelt thing being an issue. I don't like wearing them myself, but I'm sure an 18 year old guy wouldn't. I'd suggest getting one of those moneybelts that wrap around the leg as one altnerative; they may seem less fuddy-duddy. These are for around the lower leg between ankle and calf, but are only good if one wears long pants, of course.

That budget is just possible if he doesn't spend hardly anything on food. I mean, figure it out -- that's about $35 a day (or around 28 euro as Ira says). Now how in the world could one live while traveling in Europe on 28 euro a day? There are some places, actually, where I think you can get a hostel room for only around 15 euro a day (some cities are more), so that is 15 euro left to eat and do things and local transportation. 18 year old boys eat a lot. He won't be drinking much, that's for sure.

I guess if he has his airline ticket and can't change it, someone better figure out a way to get him money abroad.

re moneybelt

Please don't you *insist* on anything (is my suggestion). If he reads on Thorn Tree at Lonely Planet he will hear from his peers how important it is. Or it will be strongly advised in the guidebooks you are kindly buying for him.

Wearing a money belt is a bible rule of savvy backpackers. Better he hear the info from others his &quot;own kind&quot; than as a lecture from his auntie.

Experience is a great teacher. Tight financial circumstances teach one a lot about making things go right! So he lives on pasta and buys his food in grocery stored. It is not impossible but I don't think it will be enjoyable. How firm is this budget?
Who pays the ATM fees? Is he aware of the fees when travelling and how high they can be? Ask him, &quot;Do you want to spend that $5 on bank charges or food?&quot;
His parents bought the tickets without considering the kids available cash, etc. Flunk! I think it's the parents who need some life lessons!

Petlover

in my very oh so very humble opinion- your nephew and his parents are very lucky to have such a caring Aunt who is willing to help out. =D&gt;

My suggestion? make sure he (and his friend) has a list of address and phone numbers of US Embassies and Consulates in the cities he intends to visit.

http://usembassy.state.gov/

Just wondering about the suggestion to copy the passport. This is an excellent idea. However, in this age of identity theft, is it really good to put it on the Net and glued into a suitcase?

Also, re the money belt, I have always kept my stuff -- passport, airline tickets, cash, and debit card -- separate and in various places. I did buy a money belt, thanks to the advice of my fellow and sister Fodorites, but I am just wondering now about the wisdom of keeping all my valuables together.

When I was 17, I took a 5 week trip with a friend in June/July. I brought $2500 and budgeted $50/day for food and hostel with the rest in a lump sum for souveniers and entrances to the few museums that didn't let 17 year olds in free. We also stayed with family for a week. This was 9 years ago when the dollar was much much stronger and that was just barely enough money for me. We ate out one meal a day and got the rest of our food from the grocery store or crepe stand. I think he's going to need much more money.

I wore my money belt 24/7 and never worried about losing my passport or eurorail pass (just a selectpass which covered 5 days in 2 months).

Let's Go Europe was my bible. We picked out all our hostels and even some restaurants from it.

I used a backpack and I would use one again. It was very convienent and easy to walk to/from train stations with.

Nowadays, you can book your next hostel online from your current one. Quite a neat new feature and one that would have saved us so much time wandering cities trying to find an open hostel.

In any case, I wish him the best. It was a trip I will never forget and got me hooked on traveling for life!

My brother-in-law went on the same kind of trip when he was 18 -- no money, no plans, no experience.

He ended up buying a loaf of bread and making it last for a couple of days because he couldn't afford anything else. He spent a lot of time on trains because he couldn't afford a hostel. His memories of Paris are from a train window.

He came home hungry and broke, but a lot more mature and with a genuine appreciation for home and the importance of a well-planned trip.

It's not the kind of vacation I want to take (at least not anymore), but I bet you're nephew will be fine.

A couple of things: several years ago my nephew at the age of I think 20. took off on his first trip around the world. He traveled, at least for awhile with a girl from Australia that he had met where he was working here in the states. So, off he went with London as his first stop. He had never traveled before and lesson number one was don't keep anything valuable in your back pack, especially if you don't lock the zipper pocket. He did not even get out of the airport in London before his passport and some money was stolen. Live and learn. The next lesson came from my niece, again in London. She was over there, with a friend, to live and work for six months. They needed a place to stay while trying to get their jobs and find a flat. They stayed in several hostels. Some were better than others. If your nephew could use some of the good suggestions from other posters and have perhaps a list of the good hostels, he could check those upon his arrival in various cities. I know he might not be able to make reservations, not knowing exactly when he'd be in a particular city but it would give him a place to start. Also, be sure he actually looks at the place before plopping down his money. My neice and her friend went into one place and paid and once they looked a little deeper she just did not like the look or feel of the place and some of the people staying there. They asked for their money back so they could leave, and the person at the desk refused to give it to them. They had only been there about 20 minutes. Anyway, her friends mother is an expat living in Essex, so her friend called her mom and her step dad talked to the guy at the desk and got them a partial refund. So, the thing is, they should check the place out, see where they sleep and keep their clothes and never, never leave cards, money, or passport, whether they think they can be locked up safely or not. Those things should always be on their person. So, you can give him some of the advice given on this thread and he can take it to heart or not. My nephew survived his first trip around the world so he could go on another trip around the world. My niece and her friend found some great flat mates, she got a good job at a hospital, met a lot of people, had her favorite pub, etc..and came home healthy and happy, went back to school and is heading for Copenhage in August for a year of school. So, your nephew and his friend may have a bump or two but they'll manage. And who knows where the road may lead.

Don't want to beat a dead horse here - but &quot;he's been saving for and planning for a year&quot; - It doesn't actually sound like he's been been &quot;planning&quot; at all. Just having a few dollars and an airplane ticket is not planning. If he had been planning, and not just dreaming, he would know that $2000 isn't enough for 2 months.

In your very first entry, you said he is pretty naive and not terribly responsible. A semi-worldly kid who has traveled a bit might be able to get by on about $3000. But a clueless teenager w/ just $2000 - just feels like a formula for disaster.

artsfan is right... Definitely do NOT leave a copy of your passport in your suitcase! It's fine to have a copy but it should be on your person or in a hotel safe or something.

That suitcase-copy-thing is out-of-date advice. Something that was a good travel tip a decade ago (maybe) but with identity theft is no longer wise.