Some questions about Europe on the Cheap
 

Help...I'm helping my 18 year old nephew plan a 2 month trip in July with a friend. He's a good kid but not the most responsible IMO (pretty naieve too)

They have no planned itinerary and just want to play everything by ear. They will be staying in youth hostels (something I'm not familiar with). When they're off touring during the daytime, can they leave their belongings at the hostel knowing they'll be safe? Should they keep their passports on themself at all times? (I'm use to leaving inside a safe with a hotel room). My biggest fear is he'll loose his passport. What size suitcase works best when you're on the move every few days?

Any "must brings" for a couple of young men spending 3 or 4 days in several different countries? He's saved and taking $2,000 USD for this trip (already has his RT airline ticket and 2 month Eurail pass). Is that enough for $ for 2 months?

Lastly, can anyone recommend a good book he can bring with him, something specific to Europe on the Cheap, maybe something that includes youth hostels in the larger cities?

Although I've been to Europe several times, I'm not familiar with this type of "youth" travel and appreciate any suggestions since he's counting on me to help plan his trip. Thank you for any help!!

Let's Go Europe is the Bible for 18-year old kids traveling on a shoestring.

Two words... Lonely Planet

Sneak over to their website and you can read the BB called The Thorn Tree, go to the Western Europe branch, at www.lonelyplanet.com

There are loads of travelers there who do exactly what your nephew is planning (or not planning as the case may be -LOL)... no cause for alarm.

They should use money belts for their valuables including passport.

Other guidebooks along these lines besides the Lonely Planet series are Rough Guides, Let's Go, etc.

Oh and they probably want to use backpacks rather than suitcases.

Maybe you will want to wait till he gets back to read it but Rick Steve's Postcards from Europe is about just such a trip. R.S. Best of Europe is not really a hotel/hostel guide but will give them the highlights to look for.

Not to scare you, but my co-worker's 20 year old son, who was travelling thru Europe with a buddy was victimized near his hostel in Rome. Apparently they met up with some Gypsies near the train station, who shared some wine with them, drugged them, stabbed one of them (not seriously), and stole all their valuables. At this point they are fine and are having a great time, but it was a hard way to learn about the dangers that can be encountered by unsuspecting youth. My wife and I were in Rome two years ago, and felt absolutely safe.

I hate starting out a thread out on such a negative note, but this trip has multiple hallmarks of much money wasted, followed by running out of money, and seeing far less... than someone that put some thought into how to go for say... three <i>weeks</i> and make an effort to actually learn about the places visited.

For starters - - already purchased a two month Eurailpass? an $870 rail pass for use on a trip with only $2000 allocated for food, lodging and everything else? Evidently more interested in seeing the inside of a rail car (every day, or every night, or both) than seeing Europe, or eating or having a safe place to stay. $2000 for 60 days is 33 dollars a day. How much would he spend eating outside his home, daily, here in the US?

I shudder to think how expensive the July-September air fare is/was.

Yes, yes, I know, much will be learned, and much growing up will occur - - and why shouldn't they live off pizza and beer there? (like they would at home - - do I lament how many 18 year olds are doing that every day in America?)

And even harrowing experiences contribute to &quot;character development&quot;.

Have him come here, and lay out how ever much or little itinerary plan he has in mind (starting where? ending where?), and maybe &quot;we&quot; can help (and not everyone here is a curmudgeonly dad, as I must surely seem to be)...

Go to lonelyplanet.com (&quot;thorntree&quot;) where he will find other young people of like minds, and a number that have learned some things the hard way.

I'll end with a few tips:

$2000? belongs in the bank. He needs one, preferably two ATM cards and needs to know how to use them.

Passport? Yes, in his pocket at all times. Good quality photocopy glued into his luggage, and one in your possession, and maybe even one scanned and posted on the internet, easily accessible (geocities.com or Yahoo! briefcase, or as an attachment to a yahoo.com or netscape.com e-mail account)

Luggage: those who favor backpacks can speak to their merit. Not me. Small rollaboard (21&quot; or less) and small-medium size duffel. The less he fills them the better, but fill them about equally. The rollaboard should weight less than eight pounds empty, and the duffel less than eight OUNCES.

He can get a list of hostels everywhere from the internet. Internet cafes also (a very good bet for making low-cost phone calls too).

Let's Go Europe, or Rough Guides are appropriate book choices.

Best wishes,

Rex Bickers
Floyds Knobs, Indiana

You said he is taking $2,000 with him. I hope you don't mean in cash. He should put it in the bank and use an ATM card to access it.

A note about hostels, the better ones especially in popular locations are often full. It would be a good idea to learn how to phone ahead or make arrangements on the internet.

by all means buy him a copy of Let's Go Europe, written by Harvard Student Agencies and aimed at young travelers. it has a wealth of info especially on thousands of hostels and cheap sleeps. The best guide for cheap accommodations. Lonely Planet has a wealth of info too but sucks on coverage on budget accommodations - older travelers on the cheap or self-reliant i recommend LPlanet, for kids Let's Go Europe.
As for lots of rail travel when i was his age i took trains about everyday, didn't want in depth experience but wanated to see everything so the Eurailpass is a good deal. Night trains everywhere, wake up in new city. Recommend getting a couchette rather than sleeping in regular seats as i did as there is a lot of theft now on night trains - couchettes, costing about $30 a berth seem very safe - doors lock.

PalQ, thank you for the details on Lonely Planet. I'm a big fan of their BB and website but did not know that about lodging recommendations in their guidebooks.

I recommend the hostel listings and reviews at http://www.bugeurope.com and http://www.hostelz.com and http://www.hostelworld.com .

Theft from hostels does happen. He should stay in hostels with lockers and use a good lock. As for taking his passport and other stuff with him at all times, it's a tradeoff of risks (pickpocketing vs. theft in the hostels). Moneybelts are typically recommended for hostel travelers.

I agree the rail pass was probably a waste of money.

Also check out the site and the board at http://www.guideforeurope.com - budget/backpacking oriented.

I am not expert on this kind of travel, but I have often read that the best hostels do book up well in advance, most especially in the summer.
As rex points out, sometimes being free and easy costs more, in $$, time, and
in experience.

Even w/ his air and rail expenses paid -- $2000 for 2 months in most parts of Europe will not be nearly enough.

$30 per day, give or take, is about &euro;25. This might be BARELY possible in some parts of eastern Europe and some parts of Spain/Portugal and Greece. But even a low grade hostel will cost &euro;15 - &euro;20 per day. Museums cost money, public transport w/i the cities cost money, telephone calls and internet access cost money. He needs to know that a coke will cost &euro;2+. That will give you some idea of what to expect.

My guess is that after about 5 or 6 weeks his money will be gone and he will be sleeping rough - or worse.

Have him register at some of the sites listed in previous posts and do some serious research.

All good advice here especially about the moneybelt and ATM card. Passport on Yahoo briefcase..... Brilliant. Wish these things were available when I was 18. It was Europe on $5 a Day then. When there are 2 travellers it can be cheaper or the same price to find a small pensione. Kids on the road network like crazy sharing trips and tips. If he is going to be winging it and especially if he has a train pass he will be fine. It can be a sink or swim proposition and he has to decide to swim. So my advice is to let him plan his own trip and you can be a safety net.
Maybe Rex said it nicer but he will appreciate his trip so much more if he has to actually be involved in data gathering.

petlover: One suggestion that may seem rude, but I think it is fair, is that the best way to help this naieve and irresponsible person is to let him do his own planning. Maybe after he has done a lot of legwork you could jump in.

I keep coming back to the budget in my mind... That's ~27.5 euro per day to pay for a hostel bunk, food, drinks, admissions &amp; local transportation? Even traveling &quot;shoestring&quot; and as someone mentioned above that budget sounds more like a 6 week trip max.

The biggest problem with running out of money and having to cut the trip short is only that changing the ticket home will incur fees, possibly money he does not have.

In my opinion the Eurailpass for 2 months of travel is the best investment; i sincerely disagree with those dissing this. an incredible deal even at $870 - an INCREDIBLE deal!

Zootsi -

People who share wine and drugs with strangers they meet outside a RR station (drugged? really?) should not be running around loose.

It's unfortunate that they were attacked as well as robbed - but frankly - behaving like that you would have to expect to be robbed.

I doubt if they were sharing drugs with them in public outside a train station - wine yes and yep they probably were drugged. Beware anyone coming up to you in Rome - especially Gypsy kids who act playful but are pickpocketing you - the cops arrest them but have to release them - a revolving door.

On a more appropriate budget (say, $4500 to $7500 for 2 months), perhaps $870 for a rail pass is a &quot;good deal&quot;, in the sense that you can travel a lot of miles (and sleep sitting up, a target for a thief).

But when the budget doesn't allow for even basic food and lodging, about $700 of this $870 is being spent stupidly.

What these travelers REALLY need to do is go to ONE country, and spend about $150 <u>maximum</u> on transportation <i>within</i> Europe. As GAC posts here almost every few weeks, $150 could buy a half dozen trips, the length and breadth of Italy, with a little bit of planning.

When these two teens run out of money, and are sleeping on the couch of some Molvanian &quot;girlfriend&quot; they just met (who turns over 70% of what she makes a night to some thug), and realize they need mom or dad to shell out the extra $500 so that they can change their flights and get back home - - then the $870 spent won't look so good, no matter how many thousand mind-numbing miles of train travel it bought (or could have, if they had been able to stay the whole two months).

Even a Eurail Youth Flexi at $471 would have been spending too much...

Moreover, even working at McDonald's for a month would have meant $3000 (i.e., an extra $1000) to spend on a four week trip - - instead of $2000 for eight weeks.

re rail pass: I agree that no matter what it buys, or how great a bargain, it is too big a percentage of the total budget already spent and they aren't even there yet!

My worry it that it sounds like the airline ticket is already purchased, which means the 2 month timeframe committed to. And the train pass purchased. No turning back or changing to a shorter amount of time to make the budget do-able.

At this point, I think the only reasonable thing is for the kids to raise more spending money pronto if they want to pull this one off.

A few months ago I asked the forum about saving money in Rome. I got many good tips, including the great advice to &quot;not order coke&quot;. This should help their money stretch farther.

Hope they have a fun and safe trip!

So much great information! Yes, the airline ticket and Eurail pass are already purchased (was a graduation gift from his parents who have never been out of the USA, thus I was dragged into the whole picture...not voluntarily!)

I hadn't broken down the $2,000 into a per day basis...POVERTY! This is the money that he has saved while working part time in High School. I definitely realize he's going to need more. He is going to use ATM card not cash.

The sound of &quot;free wine&quot; would really perk his interest so I need to caution him on the gypsies. I remember seeing them often in Spain, guess they're everywhere. Keep supplying info if something pops into your mind. I really appreciate YOU!!!

Hi pet,

&gt;.....I'm helping my 18 year old nephew plan a 2 month trip in July ...&lt;

Well, you have a problem right there.

&gt;.. taking $2,000 USD for this trip &lt;

That's $33 (28E/day) That might cover a bunk in a hostel.

I agree with Rex, 3 weeks is a better idea.

Return the railpass for a refund.
By train tickets as needed or fly on cheap airlines.

Visit London, Paris and Rome
or Paris, Rome and Barcelona,
or Paris, Prague and Berlin.

((I))

I'm trying to help but his trip is cast in stone as far as airline dates, Eurail pass. He's actually staying with a friend in Stockholm for 1 week and a different friend in Madrid for a week (still agree he will need more $ though!) This is a trip he's been saving for and planning for a year. I'm only the Aunt who was recently brought into this since his parents have never travelled outside the USA. Remember, it's my nephew and not my own child so I can offer opinions and suggestions that may or may not be acted upon. I just ordered Lets Go Europe and Lonely Planet on Amazon so at least this will be a help I'm sure. I really appreciate all the GREAT HELP I've always received here!!

For some reason, I think getting him to wear a money belt may be an obsticle to overcome (it deosn't sound very &quot;male 18 year oldish&quot; )but I'm going to try to insist on that!

Hi p,

&gt;I think getting him to wear a money belt may be an obsticle to overcome ...&lt;

Don't worry about that. If he is at all like the young people at the University where I used to labor, he will go to an ATM every time he needs $10.00

Frequent trips to the ATM are pretty expensive if the bank charges a fee (often $5).

Does this ever sound like a case of too many cooks. Your nephew will be fine on his two month trip. He'll connect with other kids and he'll manage. The one thing you might get from this post is that he's going to need more money. He has a couple of weeks to figure out how. He should get busy. The best thing you can do is give him a list of tips: Get money from ATM judiciously, Avoid pickpockets, keep his belongings close... you know the drill. Buy him a moneybelt and maybe he'll use it. I've seen kids with the around the neck pouches.

This will be an eye opening and life changing experience for him.

They can get expensive, but I also know young people who go to the ATM a lot for every $20. I don't know why, I think they like to think they aren't spending as much money that way.

I can see the moneybelt thing being an issue. I don't like wearing them myself, but I'm sure an 18 year old guy wouldn't. I'd suggest getting one of those moneybelts that wrap around the leg as one altnerative; they may seem less fuddy-duddy. These are for around the lower leg between ankle and calf, but are only good if one wears long pants, of course.

That budget is just possible if he doesn't spend hardly anything on food. I mean, figure it out -- that's about $35 a day (or around 28 euro as Ira says). Now how in the world could one live while traveling in Europe on 28 euro a day? There are some places, actually, where I think you can get a hostel room for only around 15 euro a day (some cities are more), so that is 15 euro left to eat and do things and local transportation. 18 year old boys eat a lot. He won't be drinking much, that's for sure.

I guess if he has his airline ticket and can't change it, someone better figure out a way to get him money abroad.

re moneybelt

Please don't you *insist* on anything (is my suggestion). If he reads on Thorn Tree at Lonely Planet he will hear from his peers how important it is. Or it will be strongly advised in the guidebooks you are kindly buying for him.

Wearing a money belt is a bible rule of savvy backpackers. Better he hear the info from others his &quot;own kind&quot; than as a lecture from his auntie.

Experience is a great teacher. Tight financial circumstances teach one a lot about making things go right! So he lives on pasta and buys his food in grocery stored. It is not impossible but I don't think it will be enjoyable. How firm is this budget?
Who pays the ATM fees? Is he aware of the fees when travelling and how high they can be? Ask him, &quot;Do you want to spend that $5 on bank charges or food?&quot;
His parents bought the tickets without considering the kids available cash, etc. Flunk! I think it's the parents who need some life lessons!

Petlover

in my very oh so very humble opinion- your nephew and his parents are very lucky to have such a caring Aunt who is willing to help out. =D&gt;

My suggestion? make sure he (and his friend) has a list of address and phone numbers of US Embassies and Consulates in the cities he intends to visit.

http://usembassy.state.gov/

Just wondering about the suggestion to copy the passport. This is an excellent idea. However, in this age of identity theft, is it really good to put it on the Net and glued into a suitcase?

Also, re the money belt, I have always kept my stuff -- passport, airline tickets, cash, and debit card -- separate and in various places. I did buy a money belt, thanks to the advice of my fellow and sister Fodorites, but I am just wondering now about the wisdom of keeping all my valuables together.

When I was 17, I took a 5 week trip with a friend in June/July. I brought $2500 and budgeted $50/day for food and hostel with the rest in a lump sum for souveniers and entrances to the few museums that didn't let 17 year olds in free. We also stayed with family for a week. This was 9 years ago when the dollar was much much stronger and that was just barely enough money for me. We ate out one meal a day and got the rest of our food from the grocery store or crepe stand. I think he's going to need much more money.

I wore my money belt 24/7 and never worried about losing my passport or eurorail pass (just a selectpass which covered 5 days in 2 months).

Let's Go Europe was my bible. We picked out all our hostels and even some restaurants from it.

I used a backpack and I would use one again. It was very convienent and easy to walk to/from train stations with.

Nowadays, you can book your next hostel online from your current one. Quite a neat new feature and one that would have saved us so much time wandering cities trying to find an open hostel.

In any case, I wish him the best. It was a trip I will never forget and got me hooked on traveling for life!

My brother-in-law went on the same kind of trip when he was 18 -- no money, no plans, no experience.

He ended up buying a loaf of bread and making it last for a couple of days because he couldn't afford anything else. He spent a lot of time on trains because he couldn't afford a hostel. His memories of Paris are from a train window.

He came home hungry and broke, but a lot more mature and with a genuine appreciation for home and the importance of a well-planned trip.

It's not the kind of vacation I want to take (at least not anymore), but I bet you're nephew will be fine.

A couple of things: several years ago my nephew at the age of I think 20. took off on his first trip around the world. He traveled, at least for awhile with a girl from Australia that he had met where he was working here in the states. So, off he went with London as his first stop. He had never traveled before and lesson number one was don't keep anything valuable in your back pack, especially if you don't lock the zipper pocket. He did not even get out of the airport in London before his passport and some money was stolen. Live and learn. The next lesson came from my niece, again in London. She was over there, with a friend, to live and work for six months. They needed a place to stay while trying to get their jobs and find a flat. They stayed in several hostels. Some were better than others. If your nephew could use some of the good suggestions from other posters and have perhaps a list of the good hostels, he could check those upon his arrival in various cities. I know he might not be able to make reservations, not knowing exactly when he'd be in a particular city but it would give him a place to start. Also, be sure he actually looks at the place before plopping down his money. My neice and her friend went into one place and paid and once they looked a little deeper she just did not like the look or feel of the place and some of the people staying there. They asked for their money back so they could leave, and the person at the desk refused to give it to them. They had only been there about 20 minutes. Anyway, her friends mother is an expat living in Essex, so her friend called her mom and her step dad talked to the guy at the desk and got them a partial refund. So, the thing is, they should check the place out, see where they sleep and keep their clothes and never, never leave cards, money, or passport, whether they think they can be locked up safely or not. Those things should always be on their person. So, you can give him some of the advice given on this thread and he can take it to heart or not. My nephew survived his first trip around the world so he could go on another trip around the world. My niece and her friend found some great flat mates, she got a good job at a hospital, met a lot of people, had her favorite pub, etc..and came home healthy and happy, went back to school and is heading for Copenhage in August for a year of school. So, your nephew and his friend may have a bump or two but they'll manage. And who knows where the road may lead.

Don't want to beat a dead horse here - but &quot;he's been saving for and planning for a year&quot; - It doesn't actually sound like he's been been &quot;planning&quot; at all. Just having a few dollars and an airplane ticket is not planning. If he had been planning, and not just dreaming, he would know that $2000 isn't enough for 2 months.

In your very first entry, you said he is pretty naive and not terribly responsible. A semi-worldly kid who has traveled a bit might be able to get by on about $3000. But a clueless teenager w/ just $2000 - just feels like a formula for disaster.

artsfan is right... Definitely do NOT leave a copy of your passport in your suitcase! It's fine to have a copy but it should be on your person or in a hotel safe or something.

That suitcase-copy-thing is out-of-date advice. Something that was a good travel tip a decade ago (maybe) but with identity theft is no longer wise.