"The second point is that there is a deep degree of hypocrisy on show above. Posters who have, above, criticised others for using aggressive behaviour, have themselves been guilty of using some of the saddest forms of amateur psychological profiling to wage wars against others. ."


just take a look at the thread on living in Bologna or postings in the Lounge by the same people who are whining about civility on this Forum.

DickieG--How true.

I changed my poster name years ago because one person who just loves to psychoanalyze others thoroughly ridiculed a simple question I asked. I had been on the board for years, but she must have felt it was a day to be "superior" and really fried me for no reason whatsoever for the "implications" behind my question and there was a group pile-on.

What possible purpose did that serve? I was heartsick.

I do feel that creating The Lounge helped get most of those cruel persons away from the actual assisting forums. That one poster now tends to "stay" in the Lounge where I guess she and the mean girls still have a field day with comparative innocents.

Back to crckwc1's original statement...

I so agree. What does it cost to be polite? Nothing.

We all do know there's a difference between constructive critisism of a plan and outright negativity. I don't see anything wrong with telling a person that five European cities in 6 days may not be the best way to go because they just might need emotional and fiscal "permission" NOT to try to see every possible thing in one go. At the same time, we don't have to call the OP stupid.

We surely can correct another poster's misinformation without being "snarky" too.

As others have mentioned so kindly, sometimes the snarkiness is not intentional. I know that sometimes my responses are typed a little too fast, and I have hit "submit" before taking in the possible tone of my reply and how it could impact the reader. Just consider this a blanket apology if you were a recipient!

As to being a poster's travel agent, Dukey1, it just doesn't bother me. The way I'm looking at it, if the post is too broad, we can nicely say, "You might be better off at this point with a guide book and a map to narrow your options so you can get more specific advice" or....

....we don't have to answer at all.

Again, if we are not in the mood to answer or in the mood to answer with some civility, we don't HAVE to answer. I know there are some days I find myself typing zingers and realize I should just go away for a few hours or days (thank goodness for Preview). In our absences, there are plenty of people here who will step up to the plate and exercise some patience we don't have at the moment.

--Easytraveler, I loved the Benjamin Franklin story. I wish I had heard it when my kids were young--

And as far as getting a thank you, I guess it just doesn't bother me that much. I try to thank others when I get advice, but quite frankly, I am assuming that our true thank you comes when new posters pay it forward.

Nevertheless, there are so very many people on this board who show nothing but kindness, generosity, patience, and intelligence, and crckwc1's post has given me the opportunity to bless them all again. :)

I've seen posts where a person will write they only have x number of days and would like to somehow go to YYYYYY.

A response might be "You need at least 8 days to go there and since you are now going for 8 days this is what I would do".

Or.

A person might write that they are not in a position (for whatever reason) to rent a car but would like to go to WWWWWWW.

A response might be "you need a car to go anywhere near WWWWWWW with any good results and since you're now going to rent a car this is what I would do".

Or.

. . . . .

Sometimes OPs do make unreasonable plans, it would seem good for someone to say..stop and think.

I'd venture to say that there are places that can 'reasonably' only be best seen by car. Mandatorily...maybemaybe not\

I have been the recipient of some of those snarky comments, and I don't believe that I've posted stupid questions. I have been travelling through Europe for about 35 years and I am not a badly educated person. I just think there are people who have to always be superior to everyone else (I feel sorry for their family and friends who have to put up with them all the time!)and that their opinions are the only opinions worthy of consideration. Courtesy will never be a priority with these people, so I view them as a very inferior lot...

"It is clear that most of us use English but due to cultural differences the way in which we use it causes others to take the meanings differently"

Never quoted myself before but here goes...

It may be worth noting that the OP word snarky doesn't even exist in the English language. American language yes, but the first time I ever came across it, was being posted here.

Very good point, Dickie. I looked it up in the Urban Dictionary, and one definition said it was British in origin:

"snarky: Critical in a curmudgeonly sort of way.

The adjective snarky is first recorded in 1906. It is from dialectal British snark, meaning 'to nag, find fault with', which is probably the same word as snark, snork, meaning 'to snort, snore'. (The likely connection is the derisive snorting sound of someone who is always finding fault.) Most dictionaries label snarky as "Chiefly British Slang." But for the last five or more years, it has become increasingly common in American publications, maybe ones infiltrated by British or Canadian writers and journalists."

I happen to have been familiar with the term, as I was once afflicted of an English wife. She was very good at this practice.

Mnapoli,
sorry to hear that, internet can be a zoo

Being a 6 / half dozen kind of guy...
There are some OPs who are exactly that also..how dare you critcize my plans, this is the only way i want to do it, why are you asking me all these questions...

I've read threads here recently where the OP asked some questions, and feedback reasonably asked for more details. You could read the annoyance in the OP's reply back.

And sometime snarky gets as snarky gives

That's strange nuke, I have never heard it used in open conversation here before.

That said, there are lots of naughty words I can use here without being censored by our nice American editors....if I was snarky.

In total agreement with how some (including myself) answer some of the posts. I must also say that perhaps some of the fault in those who have asked the multi-answered question may be in the actual workings of the board. If you type in a search term there is a good chance you are not going to get a correct answer for your question, so folks just keep asking the same thing over and over.

To the other side, those who show up on the board, have obviously not done any type of pre-planning and expect us to do the legwork, well that is wrong.

So from me, I apologize for any rude comments I have made, but I probably meant them. :-)

dave

I will get snarky soon if that bloody numpty posts anymore adverts for live crappy British football matches.

"To the other side, those who show up on the board, have obviously not done any type of pre-planning and expect us to do the legwork, well that is wrong."

I am not sure I agree, there are destination like Italy - I have been over 20 times. No problem, but there are places that I can now afford to visit but simply don't have the time the research.

I have posted here as a total emptyhead and received very incisive information from travellers who have visited say northern Mozambique over 20 times. This has saved me days of research and has been very much appreciated.

Again, I totally agree with DickieG. I am the family travel planner, and sometimes, I just run out of gas. Sometimes, one just throws a thought out in case anyone has some ideas, and there should be no "let's sacrifice this person on the alter of superiority" response. NO response works just fine as a big hint that one's question is not reasonable.

Believe it our not, I once posted something like "If you lived on the US East Coast, had one week in early April to travel with husband and two kids--all of whom know how to travel--and just wanted to stay in ONE area of France or Italy to explore without a car, where would YOU go?" I may have mentioned our general family interests (art, nature)and that we had just "done" weeks in Rome, Florence, Paris, etc.

Why did I do that? I was out of ideas. I needed some sort of jump start.

Anyway, even as broad based as that question was, I got four or more really thoughtful replies that rejuvenated and targeted my travel planning process.

And of course, I sure did get a couple snarky ones :)

PS: Just in case you wondered where we ended up, we did the Riviera with a Cote d'Azur Musee card. Perfect! I don't think I would have thought of it without the kind posters here.

stcirq,for the record, I was NOT talking about you! I don't believe you have ever commented on Bologna, for one thing. The person I was referring to considers his/her self to be the ultimate guide to Italy and the rest of us to be hapless tourists who wander around haphazardly not knowing what is what.

I knew that, charnees:), but thanks for posting anyway.

DickieG: <i>It is clear that most of us use English but due to cultural differences the way in which we use it causes others to take the meanings differently</i>

Excellent point, which is why the responses to the questions should be phrased in as plain English as possible.

One must never forget that the users of Fodors Forums are worldwide.

Just considering the eurasia land mass alone, those going to Asia are usually fairly well-to-do and can afford to stay in hotels where the staff can speak a minimal amount of English and so do not have to bother to learn the local language(s). In recent years because of their bettering their own economic situation, there has an influx the other way, from Asia to Europe. The common language is usually English, and sometimes French or German. The bulk of these Asian travellers are young and not wealthy. Many go for education purposes. Great Britain runs several "schools" where English is taught to young Koreans, Chinese, etc., the very people who will staff the airports, hotels, etc. for the "wealthier" Westerners who visit their country. Still many more are young professionals who are taking a short vacation. There are, of course, also the extremely wealthy nouveau riche from Asia who take group tours to test drive Ferraris, dine in the best restaurants, etc. These latter travelers do not need to learn any Western language; their money speaks a universal language.

Occasionally on the Europe board, I will see questions from Asians, especially from South Asia. There is a natural cultural reticence in not asking too detailed a question or in giving out too much personal information. They are just politely asking for information and in almost all cases, responses are politely given.

In these cases, as in the bulk of the inquiries, it is not right to prejudge the intelligence, experience, or anything else of the person asking for information.

Throwing in a locally acceptable snark from London or New York is not only unacceptable but also shows the pathetic need of the snarker to feel superior. I know, in the case of the Asian for whom English is a second/third/fourth language that he/she simply will not understand the snarky comments.

There's nothing more pathetic than a snarky comment that misses its target. :)

Charnees: Most of us know who you were talking about . . . not to worry.

"<i>Excellent point, which is why the responses to the questions should be phrased in as plain English as possible. </i>"

That is one of the BIG problems. What is perfectly acceptable/plain English in one place can totally unacceptable or have a completely different meaning in another place.

Even just in the US -- a word or phrase can mean MANY different things depending on the region/ethnic background/culture.

And when you throw in "English" from places like OZ/NZ/South Africa . . . we are on a REALLY slippery slope if everyone has to conform to some <i>perceived</i> acceptable vocabulary. And then the PC police jump on board and it gets worse.

I think most are sensible and when a post is obvious that English is not the first language - they try to use more simple terms/less slang/short cuts.

But otherwise, I think we shouldn't try to dictate how folks choose to say things . . . .

Janis

You are another example and I will use this to offload my guilt. I change my logins and also read a lot more here than I post. I tend to pigeon hole people, its how my brain works. Problem with that is that I think I am familiar with a poster when in fact they don't know me from adam.

I have been very guilty in the past of have warm feelings for the huge input you give here (and how helpful it has been to others) but I have been far too comically flippant with you in the past, in view of the ACTUAL direct contact we have had.

I think I am trying to say that I have always been a naughty school boy who likes pulling the head teachers pigtails!

For that I can only apologise.

The problem with forum communication..... everyone is listening to your conversations, which you had three days ago.

As a result you feel you know someone when clearly you don't.

>><i>How many people are this serious and sensitive in real life? How do you get along in what can often be a brutal world?</i>

By daring to make it a better place.

“It's so easy to laugh
It's so easy to hate
It takes guts to be gentle and kind”
― Morrissey