sharing a meal
 

As my wife, two girls, and I plan our trip to England, France, and Italy next year, we are having a wonderful time reading up about the dining experiences. One question that we had was whether it is acceptable etiquette to share a meal. Most likely we would order three plates to share amongst the four of us. We would do this partly to save money, and not let food go to waste (younger daughter is not a big eater. We have no plans on dining at real upscale restaurants, but do plan to have quite a few meals out. I imagine half of our meals will be eaten in our apartment rentals, while the rest over the 6 week holiday will be in local eateries. Any feedback on this practice would be appreciated.

I suggest having the light-eater daughter order an appetizer or soup course for her meal. I believe that will go smoother than 4 people spliting 3 meals (where you'll have to explain, ask for an extra plate, etc.)

I have seen people do this, and I never saw anybody having difficulty about it. I have heard reports, however, of it not going down well in some establishments.

I suggest that you try to avoid places that are very busy, where they might see one empty plate as lost revenue, and go to places that are slightly less busy, where they will count three meals as sales gained. If you want to go to a place that is popular, aim for off-peak hours.

This could be a problem and using the tactics of Suze or Padraig would be a good idea.

My only experience doing something like this was at the restaurant of a Golden Tulip hotel in The Hague. I asked the waiter up front if my teenage daughter and I could split the four course dinner. No problem he said. So I ate the salad and main course and she ate the appetizer and desert. The bill came and it was a la carte! I protested long and loudly but to no avail.

As we were leaving the restaurant a man came scurrying over to intercept me at the door. He was the hotel manager and had heard the whole story. Everybody in the place heard the whole story I can assure you. The manager corrected the waiter.

The sharing-thing would be easier if one person is fluent in French and Italian (and pardon me if I am incorrect in this, but I am guessing you are not) to be able to explain to the waiter what you are after in a friendly way. If lacking language skills, I stick with my original suggestion.

As a world-class diner and social lion, I think it is extremely tacky to split an entree in a restaurant. I also don't get it. If you are dining with a "lite" eater, have them select "lite" fare like soup or salad. Ask the waiter if the restaurant/cafe serves "child portions" or half portions. Really, you should be able to find something on a restaurant menu to accomodate your lite eaters.

One place you can get away with sharing food--Indian restaurants--and they are all over London. Also, fish/n/chips shops.

Signed,
I want my own plate, guv.

One thing you neede to realize is that portions in most of europe are much smaller than is typical in the US. Also - often veggies are separate from the main course - and you order one serving for several to share. So a regular entree may not be too much for the smaller appetite.

Also, agree that if she doesn;t want a whole meal to order one or two smaller things - rather than have to get extra plates (they'll charge for this) and figure out which items are large enough to share.

Also - if you do more meals in cafes, pubs etc - rahter than more formal restaurants there will be more smaller choices.

It might be helpful to note that portion sizes in Europe are quite small compared to U.S. "family" restaurants -- reknowned for heaping platter abominations that almost embarrass you with excess.

In London, I was shocked at the small portions - my curry at an Indian restaurant came in a small cereal bowl which was maybe half full. (I actually had been worried about what to do with my leftovers!) It was very nice to be able to finish all my food for a change.

So you might find that your group will be ordering 4 entrees, anyway.

oops, nytraveler beat me to it.

As everyone said portions are small .. sometimes "extra small". Do not expect to find the mega-meals you do in the U.S. I'd do what others have suggested for your younger daughter and that is to order soup/salad or something like that. Actually once you see the small portions you may want to order a regular meal for her and what she does not eat you can !!!

All good advice. Keep in mind, in France they don't rush you out the door but do expect each chair to have a person who will order a mean since there is not much of a turnover as here in the states.

You might consider cafeteria style restaurants where you can order what you want with no questions asked. Many of the department stores have cafeterias. Look for them. Although, I don't think it is tacky to order 3 meals for 4 people, I would probably want to avoid a potentially unpleasant situation. I think the advice for your daughter with the small appetite to order an appetizer is a good one. Because, I am a vegetarian, I often order the first course, and no one has given me any problems. Of course, I usually explain why I am doing this, and so far, everyone has been pretty pleasant. I smile a lot while I am explaining. I must admit that I like cafeterias because I don't need to feel like I am asking favors. (I guess, I can use some assertion training!!)

Please do what has been suggested above. We, small (cafe) business owner would appreciate this courtesy.

Please remember we have workers to pay no matter what.

Thanks for the feedback. The idea of ordering smaller items for the light eaters, but ensuring everyone has ordered sounds like a good idea. The language issue, and the need to give an explanation is not a huge factor. But the cultural differences of serving sizes and the pacing of a meal over a longer period makes sense as reasons to avoid splitting meals. In terms of pizzas, are they ever of a size that is meant for sharing? Or in fact, do any of the ethnic restaurants (such as Asian establishments where several plates of food can be ordered and are meant to be shared) exist in the countries where we are visiting?

We have shared meals in London, Paris and in many Italian cities.

We have never had any problems doing this. They will usually even bring us an extra plate. However, we usually don't eat in fancy restaurants, but stick to the small family owned restaurants.

We did fine in France with our two girls occasionally sharing an entree in modest restaurants. (I'm not sure what is 'tacky' about that) No sneers or eye rolling. Teach your girls to smile and say 'Nous partagerons' and the Italian equivalent. Tip extra as compensation.

Of the places you're going, England is the only place that we've eaten Asian (for us, Indian) food, rather than French or Italian. Us adults ordered our own dishes, usually an appetizer and a main course, and our son ordered an appetizer only and ate it as his dinner with no issues.

When we took him to France, for most dinners, he ordered a main course only, while we ordered an appetizer and a main, and sometimes we had desserts and coffees. Nobody had any problem with us doing that, even in very formal restaurants.

In Italy (where we have not yet taken our son), us adults sometime share an appetizer, though we each have our own main course. Nobody seemed to raise an eyebrow, and they definitely seemed to understand.

In terms of pizza in Italy (only had it once in London), pizzas are one-person size. They are bigger in diameter than an "individual-pan pizza" in the U.S., but as they typically have a thin crust and not so much cheese as American pizzas, I find them less filling. You can also find takeout-only places that sell pizza by the slice. Those are very fun, as you can then try several different kinds of pizza! Italians mostly eat pizza at dinner, not lunch; you'll find that some pizza places are only open for lunch! But there are enough that serve pizza at lunch that you'll have a large selection. On our recent trip to Italy, we had pizza for lunch in Rome. It tickled me that of all the patrons at the restaurants, all of whom were Italian except one other table of German tourists, they all had pasta and various fried appetizers - we were the only persons eating (very happily) pizza.

One thing you will encounter, and more in France than in Italy, is that sometimes restaurants (or chefs or waiters) have a more fixed idea that the appetizer course is served first, then the primi (in Italy), then the main course. If one daughter orders an appetizer only, and the rest order a main course only, you might find that she'll be served her appetizer and the rest of you get to watch her eat, then you will also get your main course, after she has finished her meal.

Some restaurants do have childrens' menus, if your daughters are young enough. Our son never used them, as they offered items like steak hachee (ground beef), which he wasn't interested in.

i don't think anyone can really say what the response will be when you order 3 meals for 4 people. i think there is a lot of well meaning but misleading advice here.

asian (eg indian) restaurants in london often are the LEAST 'forgiving' in these respects. margins are tight and in these places the waiters/owners are sometimes a little pushy trying to sell you things as compared to other restaurants. but in the vast majority, you won't have a problem.

counter to some advice above, i think you are MORE likely to have a problem in a small locally owned place. but in the vast majority, you won't have a problem.

compensating with a bigger tip is ethnocentric advice that does not translate well to places like france. IF you were to encounter problems there, it would most likely be as a result of inflexibility that the french sometimes show...the feeling that there is only one way to do something. throwing more tip at the waiter or owner after the fact won't solve anything. in the vast majority of cases, you won't have a problem.

in summary, you are unlikely to have very many problems doing this as they are children. if a restaurant does not want to serve children, they will just say they are full (unless you call and they don't know). children always mean less sales (no alcohol, cheaper or less food, etc). the vast majority of restaurants know that this is just life....some customers spend more and some less. same can be said for very old people. it's just a fact of life that restaurants accept.

In France and Italy pizzas are usually one portion; when one of my kids orders a pizza, I sometimes order a salad, and have some of her pizza as well. Never a problem. One of my children is a lite eater, and she will sometimes order two starters, or just starter and dessert. That's also never a problem.
It depends on the age of the kids too; for a small child it's quite acceptable that they share the parent's food in most places. Or I order just a plate of pasta or a plate of french fries for the youngest, and he shares some of our food.
As said, it depends on the restaurant.

teachs wrote: "Thanks for the feedback."

A good choice of words.

teachs, how old are your two girls?

You're most likely right about the tip, walkinaround. Abolishing tips altogether would be fine with me.

I'm puzzled how 3 main courses among 4 people is injuring the restaurant in any way. (aside from the annoyance of not having things done a standard way, and life is like that)
If 3 of us went, we'd most likely be seated around a table with room for four. Is the restaurant going to shoehorn in another person to maximize income? Unless it's packed, with people lined up out the door, I feel that we have already done them a bit of good by buying food from them.

<I'm puzzled how 3 main courses among 4 people is injuring the restaurant in any way.>

Call me crazy, but I think restaurants might make the assumption that each person seated planned to eat a meal!

I'm curious - is it acceptable practice in the USA to have four people sit down in a restaurant and order meals for three? If it is it would save us wasting so much food next time we go to America (the portions are so much bigger we never finish all the food on the table).

Over here, if your girls are young I wouldn't think restaurants would mind them sharing an adult main course; if they're teenagers the restaurants will probably be a little bit surprised.

As has already been mentioned, if you go to self-service restaurants you can buy as many or as few portions as you want.

Yes, but there's a difference between somehow harming or cheating the restaurant and doing something they don't expect. I don't order my life around the expectations of those I pay for a service, and I can endure raised eyebrows if I believe I'm acting ethically.
Don't people in Europe sometimes go along just for the company of the others, even when they're not particularly hungry?

"Don't people in Europe sometimes go along just for the company of the others, even when they're not particularly hungry?"

I can't speak for the whole of Europe, but in my experience the usual answer is no, not in restaurants - if a group of adults go into a restaurant in the UK the normal routine is for everyone to order something. Obviously there will be exceptions.

But when you go out in a group of adults and only some people want to eat, in my experience the group goes somewhere that food is available but not compulsory; usually a wine bar or gastropub.

papagena,

Yes, our restaurants in the USA always give us too much. That's why we have "doggie bags." It's not for the dog of course, it's my lunch the next day Nowadays most restaurants will give you a styrofoam container and you fill it yourself with whatever is left on your plates.

<Don't people in Europe sometimes go along just for the company of the others, even when they're not particularly hungry?>

I don't know about Europe, but that's not something I do in the United States... go to a restaurant with no plans of eating, that is.

I do not go to a restaurant when I am not going to eat. I just cancelled a luncheon date with a good friend as I have had a virus and I know that besides a glass of wine and perhaps some bread I just could not tolerate a full lunch this week.

For children, not knowing their ages I would think in any restaurant there would be side orders that would be appropriate for young children that do not have a large appetite. A salad and french fries perhaps? In Italy a plate of pasta? We never had a problem when taking our daughter to a restaurant even when she was little as there was always food that could be ordered. And if she didn't eat all of it we didn't worry about it.

"Don't people in Europe sometimes go along just for the company of the others, even when they're not particularly hungry? "

I can only speak for myself, but in that case the answer is no. Not to a dining place, in that case we would go to a pub, café or a wine bar.

I would say that at local eateries and more casual places (along with anywhere else you choose to dine) you'll be just fine. Don't even worry about it.

Bonjour,

In a lot of modest French restaurants and most "brasseries", you may choose to have the "menu enfants" (menu for kids) provided your daughter is under 10/12... It is often composed of a "steak-frites"/steak and chips and icecream and is served in small quantity.

If your dd is older or, like our son when he was a little boy, hated being served the "menu enfants", using the expression one of the forumites suggested : "nous partagerons parce que ma fille ne mange pas beaucoup" (we'll share because our daughter doesn't eat much) should be OK. Cordialement. Marie (France)

Could you help me make this sentence of mine more idiomatic, please ? The absence of an "edit button" makes things difficult for me, lol !

"If your dd is older or is like our son who hated being served the "menu enfants" when he was a little boy..."

Merci d'avance ! Marie

Your original sentence is quite good! Just a couple of changes from this American English teacher:

If your dd is older or if she hates being served from the "menu enfants" (as was the case with our son when he was little), use the expression one of the forumites suggested...

Only the added "from" and the change to "using" is absolutely essential.

Your English is excellent! A+

Oops! I meant "change to 'use'"! Sorry...

In France and Italy, we've had no problem sharing, but each person does order a main course. We share appetizer, salad, or dessert (not a pasta course).

In pizzarias at lunch we've ordered a pizza, wine and large salad with extra plate for sharing. No one frowned on this.

Lastly, someone above mentioned "cafeteria sytle". These are very common in Italy, usually a small storefront with the goodies on view from the sidewalk. Pizza slices, pasta dishes...all yummy looking and piping hot. They usually have a good pastry selection as well. Something like this would be a good choice for all appetites.

Marie's sentence with the word "using" was fine. I believe Cimbrone didn't notice the entire sentence when he corrected it: "...using the expression...should be OK."

Hi Nikki. "Using" is definitely not fine. The sentence needs a main verb. Since the beginning of the sentence is a subordinate clause, "use" needs to be the main verb, in this case a command. "Using" is either a participle (an adjective) or a gerund (a noun), which, as I already noted, would leave the sentence without a verb in its main clause.

Oh, I see what you were thinking, Nikki. "Using" would be okay if there were no colon which, for all practical purposes, indicates the end of a sentence. So use "use" or get rid of the colon and add commas around the phrase in French.

Oh good, a grammar disagreement. (Seriously, I really enjoy them.) Hmm, I am not sure I see your point, but I am willing to be convinced. Are you saying that the sentence "Discussing grammar should be encouraged" is incorrect? Or "Going to Paris would be fun"?