Seperate checks? rude?
 

Our family is looking forward to an approaching European vacation. London and Paris for 9 days and 11 family members.

Is is tacky to ask for seperate checks in either city? We can split the bill but we have a wide variety of eating styles. some folks drink, others do not, some are very light eaters, etc etc.

I was thinking that it maybe easier to ask for seperate checks.

TIA

For a group of 11, it would be rude in Paris unless you warn the waiter ahead of time, in which case it is absolutely no skin off his nose. However, I certainly hope that you are not actually asking for 11 separate checks but no more than 3 or 4.

When work colleagues have lunch together, separate checks are quite common.

I think it's a bit naff and a pain for the restaurant. Why not divvy up when you return to the hotel or take it it turns to pay the bill

We have often given the waitperson more than one cc and split the bill evenly..May not work for your group, however..Ask, you can only be turned down by the restuarant. Divvying up can be awkward after the fact.."I had only 1 wine, you had 3 so therefore" can spoil an evening out not to mention a trip!!!

It is a bit of a pain, but when we travel with friends, one person keeps a running tab for everybody. We all give that person money to pay the bills. Sometimes, we take turns paying, but that person still keeps up with everything and anyone who is getting behind is the next to pay. Every few days, we settle up.

I don't think I have experienced separate checks in either city.

Each couple just gives the waiter a credit card and they divide the bill evenly. Sometimes, when the restaurant seems uncomfortable with that or if it is a group of individuals and couples, one person pays the entire bill and the rest settle with him/her with cash. Some people love putting the entire bill on their card for the points

In Spain and France it's not normal if you're with a small group of friends or family to ask for separate checks, but it's not a problem with a larger group. I doubt it's any different in the UK. Just let them know that you would like separate checks before sitting down at the table, but hopefully you will not be asking for 11 separate checks. Now that would be rude.

What we normally do when dining with friends is one person pays (credit card or cash) and the others pay them, typically splitting the bill equally. If you're the light eater, then you loose.

You'll also have to plan ahead with a group as large as yours, especially in Paris, as most restaurants tend to be smaller and table spacing tighter. Few will have a table large enough to seat 11 people.

Frankly, it might even be better to use at least two different tables for the group -- I have never been able to follow the different conversations when there are more than 6 people sitting together.

Dividing the bill equally between 2 or 3, with different credit cards, is one thing. Asking for different itemised bills is something else; I really don't think you can ask that for 11 people, or even for 3 or 4. If you want to do that; take cash, and everyone can add up there own costs, and you pay the bill in cash.

You do have to plan ahead with your restaurants. There are places in London that do not take reservations for larger groups. They may also ask for credit card details in advance.

There aren't too many restaurants where you can go and easily get a table for 11, either. You would certainly need to reserve. I can't imagine doing that for my entire vacation, what a PITA.

Maybe none of them will be speaking to each other after two days -- that's often how it goes.

LOL, hey,hey, hey. We've vacationed together before and a few blows usually get folks in line.

Thanks guys,

We'll get it together.

If you are going to ask for 2 checks that is one thing - if you are going to ask for 4 or more I would think that is not really appropriate. It's your job to figure that out - not a waitperson's. Especially if, as I suspect, some people are going to "share" some dishes unofficially and everyone will have a taste of the desserts that only 2 or 3 people order.

Agree that unless you have totally different eating habits - one a salad with a glass of water and most with 3 courses with wine (or tiny children) you should just split the bill equally.

When my DH and I traveled with B and SIL we just took turns. One day we paid for lunch and they paid for dinner and the next day we switched. It all worked out in the end - esp when you are buying bottles or carafes of wine - who keeps track of which person drinks how much?

Of course, if you seriously inconvenience your waiter by asking for several separate itemised bills, then you will have to add a larger tip.

And then you have to decide how to share out the tip - per person, or by fraction of the bill.

Personally, I would prefer to ask for a single bill, then divide up myself, and then tell the waiter how much to allocate to each card. I would also limit the transaction to two or three cards. I loather ending a meal out with prolonged haggling over who should pay what, and it seems inappropriate amongst friends.

It seems to be a particular American thing to travel in large family groups, and I sometimes wonder if the stress of keeping everyone together is one reason why people are more susceptible to pickpocketing and other distraction crimes.

Of course since tipping is not done in Paris, that makes the Paris part of the trip so much easier than London! :-)

in Feb I went on a trip to Rome with 6 kids and 7 adults, none of us related to each other.

we tried the separate bills the first couple of times, and it was indeed a PITA. after that, we just got the kids to put in the money for what they'd had [they were very good at remembering as they were on tight budgets, or so we thought til they went clothes' shopping] and then split the rest between the remaining 7 adults. if one of us had more wine, it was usually made up for by someone else having a pud.

but there was no reason why we could not have put in what each of us had, just like the kids did; it would just have taken longer.

BTW, the MOST important thing we did was to check the bill - it was wrong EVERY TIME. somehow when there are lots of you, those little extras seem to creep onto the bill, innocently I'm sure. So check the bill thoroughly. There's nothing wrong with asking for the menu back to help you work it out.

>>>>><i> Seperate checks? rude? </i>

Yes.

Why do you need separate bills?

It's long been commonplace in English cities for skinflint customers to haggle with each other about how much of a bill each has been responsible. Overhearing "I had one glass of wine: you had two" isn't unusual from parties of a dozen or so destitute, students, or peculiarly finnickety women: it's unheard of among grown-up, settled, men. It's also always liable to attract audible disapproval or ridicule from other customers.

The British culture is that such nit-picking is entirely the nit pickers' responsibility. It's ill-mannered to other customers, and to the restaurant, to expect serving staff time to be diverted from their job of looking after proper customers to indulge the whims of the self-centred.

It's just about OK to hand the waiter 11 different cards, with requests for 11 different amounts, providing the total adds up to marginally more than the bill plus service charge. It's also more than OK for such behaviour to attract even louder disapproval and ridicule from fellow diners than the haggling.

But the onus for doing the sums rests entirely with the self-centred customers. Overtipping to compensate does not compensate the other customers kept hanging around while this nonsense is going on.

Overhearing "I had one glass of wine: you had two" isn't unusual from parties of a dozen or so destitute, students, or peculiarly finnickety women: it's unheard of among grown-up, settled, men>>

flanner - being grown-up settled woman I took immediate exception at this, because i never haggle over restaurant bills, except that I then thought about some "friends" of my mum who have been known to share one cup of tea.

so you might just have a point.

>>>>><i>isn't unusual from parties of a dozen or so destitute, students, or peculiarly finnickety women: it's unheard of among grown-up, settled, men. </i>

<i>>>>>>It's ill-mannered to other customers, and to the restaurant, to expect serving staff time to be diverted from their job of looking after proper customers to indulge the whims of the self-centred. </i>

EXACTLY. It's also unheard of from grown up women.

It's not the wait staff's responsibility, it's yours.

As another poster said, it might be easier to pay in cash on this trip. Fortunately tipping isn't an issue in Europe.

You may well find a not at the bottom of the menu specifically stating that the restaurant will not split the bill if you are all sitting at one table. Bad enough for a restaurant to have to do it for 4 or6 people, but ridiculous to expect them to do it for 11 of you.

Work out a system before you go away - a kitty, everyone noting what they eat/drink on their smart phone and then paying cash for it, or whatever. Do not decide at the end of your first meal how you are going to deal with this question - or you will not be speaking to half your party by day 2.

I am baffled by the problem. When I go out with friends we have often forgotten or not bothered to get the bill separated, but we are capable of reading and we just put in what we are billed for.. if bill says my chicken was 20 bucks and that 5 glasses of wine were sold at 5 dollars a glass and I know I only had two glasses I put 30 dollars in the pot ( plus tip here of course). Can't people keep track of their own expenses.

At very least, if you decide to split the bills please have the people sit together, its incrediblily hard for waiter to remember who is on whos tab if you are all mixed up together.

I rather think the idea of sitting at two tables is a good one too, and one you will end up doing anyways as many small places simply will not have a table for 11 .

Although tipping is not necessary in France, or is given in much smaller amounts, I personally would leave 5-10 euros( from whole table not per person!) for any waiter who had to handle a table of eleven people. yuck.

Solve the issue ahead of time between yourselves, and don't cause a problem for the waiter.

On a big trip, however, where you will be eating out a lot, it is nervy of the heavy eaters/drinkers to think the light eaters/drinkers should split equally. Over a week to ten days, that could really add up.

Correct etiquette says the person with the smaller bill may suggest splitting, but not the person with the larger bill, that it is a rude way of asking the other person to pay for you.

I had the experience once of being on a super tight budget and being invited out by a relative who, without telling me, invited another woman I did not know. She said the restaurant was cheap - like pub food: not so. I had, at the time, $20.00 in my pocket and no credit cards. I had salad and tea, keeping enough for my tip. They had huge meals, cocktails, wine and desert (about $90.00 each), then said, "Oh lets just split it three ways. I had to decline their generous offer to have me pay for part of their meals. They were very upset, said I was being cheap, etc. I finally emptied my purse and said if they could find any more money, they were welcome to it. Terrible experience.

I love paying for friends when I can. After a trip to Paris, we got a note with a check in it. Called my friend to ask what it was for. She said we kept picking up the tab and she had added things up and realized how much we had paid for them and they wanted it to be more fair. We didn't care, and didn't cash the check, but I appreciated that they didn't expect it.

sassafrass - that's terrible. they must have noticed that you were ordering the cheapest things and have drawn their own conclusions. When they realised that, they should have offered to stand you dinner and made sure that you ate properly. THey were the cheapskates, not you.

I agree sassafras those people you were with behaved horridly. I can't believe they expected to split the bill three ways , they in fact were the cheapskates and rude too..

Pocket calculators are your friend. Make sure that each of the 11 people has one and decide on a prize to award the person who works out the correct amounts to pay first (free meal to be paid by the other 10 people, for example). ;-)

That was awful sassafrass. If I'd had 2 wines and a full course and my dining partner had water and a salad, I think it would be rude to expect him/her to share equally.

Guess what, some of the newer restaurants I been to in Maryland have one check with sub-totals for each seat position. That makes it very easy to figure out who owes what.

Back when I was extremely poor and was purposely ordering the cheapest items, this happened to me a number of times.

But the lesson was well learned. Recently when a dinner was being organized by various people and the restaurant was named, I checked it out on the internet and replied "I hope you all have a good time -- it is over my budget." I immediately received a message from one of the people saying "I'm inviting you." The meal was delicious (and yet not worth the price that was paid -- it was former President Chirac's favorite restaurant).

Good job, kerouac! DH (rip) resented paying too much for something he was only renting!

My experience over the years is that the people who eat the most and drink the most always suggest splitting the bill. And get really shirty (annoyed) when you resent doing so, having only had one glass of wine and a small meal. They call you mean - hello - aren't they the mean ones expecting others to contantly sub their meals? I just don't understand this mentality.

I like A glass of wine with my meal, that's all. But find if I go out with a group they order bottle after bottle of expensive wine - divide it up between everyone - mostly it is 2-3 who drink the most and it costs me over $50 for one glass. I find that outrageous and most unfair, but of course they have had so much to drink it makes them get even more cheesed off and so it can get nasty. Their attitude is well you should drink more - but I don't really want to thanks.

I have recently fallen out with a 'friend' of over 20 years as I finally spoke up and said I wanted to order what I wanted to eat for my dinner and not have her order for everyone - excessive amounts of food which continually got left. She took great offence and hasn't spoken to me since. Her loss I reckon.... She is a professional lady and earns a small fortune, I am no way in the same category. She is a very heavy drinker and in all the 20 years of dinners I don't think I have ever heard her say - well I drank (in her hay day) 1.5 bottles by myself so therefore let me chip in a bit more - never.

However I am not suggesting you split the bill 11 ways!!! just having a rant.... thanks for indulging me.

Schnauzer

Thank you Annhig, Justineparis and TDudette for the kind comments. I learned from it also. As DH and my fortunes changed for the better, I came to be very cognizant of friends' different situations and mindful never to pick places they could not afford and to pick up the tab when I could do so without embarrassing them.

Schnauzer >"My experience over the years is that the people who eat the most and drink the most always suggest splitting the bill."

Sadly, that has often been my experience also. Schnauzer, you know you are not wrong, that woman is just rude and takes advantage as well as being cheap. I can afford it now, and don't say anything (one time), but if someone does that, I never go out with that person again.

DH and I were out with a family group one night. One person said, "Oh, I'll just put it on my credit card and you can all pay me back." We realized afterwards he had simply divided the bill by everyone there except his wife and himself. What a cheat and cheapskate! DH and I laughed about it - but never went out with them again.

The friends we travel with are so wonderful. We are always trying to do more for each other. Hope it is the same with Eliza61's group in Paris.

I sypmathize with your dilemma, having learned very early in life going out with a group of "friends" who throw their "share" on the table and leave early means you are going to get stuck paying for the shortage. Hard lesson and not one I planned on experiencing again.

Bottom line, in France, yes it is rude to ask for separate checks. (Germany, no problem)

It drives my husband crazy for us to sit in a restaurant and itemize, so my sisters and I do it privately back at the hotel (making sure the bill is itemized and legible before we leave--frequently in the little mom & pop places it's little more that a scrawl with dashes and numbers on a thin slip of paper).

If itemizing isn't an option, what about having the known heavy eaters/drinkers sit at one table and the light snackers/no booze/on a budgeters sit at another. This would make the most sense, but as others have noted earlier, it's often the big spenders that take offence at those wanting to itemize/experience spending accountability, so they probably wouldn't like this idea either.

Good luck, sincerely.

Oh, if you do the personal itemization/settling of accounts...it's pretty obvious people should have a stash of small bills/coins for ease of transactions...it always amazes me the people who know they are going to have to have to pay their share but come with only a large 50 or 100 to do so! GRRRR!

Before even dreaming of asking for separate bills . . . Check out my "six ladies . . " trip report ( click on my name)

That was only a group of 6 - I really did try to convince them (especially the separate check Nazi, llater to be called the separate check Queen).

Don't do it!

A complete digression, but Canon Chasuble has a dinner guest story. A colleague of his took a potential supplier to a good restaurant where he was known. After the meal, he left a £20 tip.
The next time he went in, the Maitre d' quietly said to him, "I think you should know, sir that after you left last time, your guest returned, removed the £20 and replaced it with a £10"
Needless to say, the guest didn't get an order.

This is a FAMILY???? I cannot believe that you refuse or cannot get this decided amongst yourselves. IOW pay ONE bill and then fight it out; why you would even think of putting some unsuspecting restaurant worker through this is beyond me.

Interesting cultural observations.

In Germany, split bills are quite common, and waiters will often ask 'Getrennt oder zusammen?' (split or together) at the end of the meal when it's time to pay.

Eleven people are going to dine together on a regular basis? Everyone's going to get hungry at the same time? Want to eat in the same place?

That's what I call a close group.

Anyway, here's what I'd do: Have each person in the group take turns going over the bill and saying, "If you had the chicken and the two glasses of wine, you owe ..." If you had the fish and one glass of wine, you owe ..."

I hate the idea of sticking one person with the job all the time. I also hate the idea of bickering over who owes what. I'd rather eat by myself than do that.