Separate checks
 

My sister will be traveling with 3 other women and their custom is get separate checks at restaurants. I am totally unfamiliar whether this is done or not done in Italy, what is your experience?

Thank you.

don't know about Italy but when I am with friends we split the check BUT when I'm with friends who don't drink I ask for a separate check as I drink and they shouldn't have to pay for that

IMHO this should not be done anywhere. How difficult is it to just split it 4 ways and keep a running tab. Or take turns paying the bill. If one person drinks a lot and another eats nothing - I ges that could be a problem - but why should wait staff have to deal with 4 different credit cards - making change 4 times?

(I have traveled to europe with family, friends or colleagues many times - and we always figure a way around this - depending on the circumstances. If any of the member of the group is so worried that they might be out a euro or two - they will probably make a miserable traveling companion.

i really don't think that is common. i would think they can work it out among themselves...so agree with last comment of nytraveler.

Suggest your sister read this classic thread:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...d-sorrento.cfm

Splitting checks is just one thing to think about!

I would say that it is not common, and ought not to be done. I agree with nytraveler and Lois2.

I've only been to Italy w/ my ex or solo so splitting checks was never an issue. But in other countries (I'm most familiar w/ the UK) I've visited it is a terrible idea.

Plus - w/ no tax added like happens in the States, anyone should be able to work out what each person owes. What the menu says it what the item costs.

I have a trip report that has lots of angst about separate checks - - it os a very long thread but here is just one example . . .

>><i><blue>On Sundays they do set meals - either 2 or 3-course w/ or w/o Bellini cocktails so only 4 prices plus any extra drinks. (though they comped our Bellinis). This is where I discovered that one of our little group is the "separate check nazi". Only a slight exaggeration. She is the most well off of any of us - and now I know how she made her $$ - she never pays one cent (or pence) more than her share. I tried to explain (Nicely - honest :) ) that split checks - especially for a party of 6 - isn't really the norm. She'd have none of it. I tried to explain (REALLY nicely - honest >) ) that there is no added sales tax like back home and service was included so since we were ALL having a two course set meal plus some extra drinks it would be very VERY easy to figure out what everyone owed. Nope - not good enough. So I called our waiter aside and quietly explained that we'd really appreciate it if he could split our tab. He said "sure, no problem - I THINK my manager knows how to do that.". Well - it took three staffers nearly 20 minutes fighting w/ the register to divide our bill. And the upshot - each and every one of us spent the same amount, had exact change and none used their credit cards. So why exactly did we need separate checks??? (I paid for the carafes of sparkling water since I figured that might cause a stink) And of course, we then had to practically run to the theatre. This would be the first of many times we faced the same sort of separate checks problem</i></blue><<

When traveling with friends, we take turns putting the bills on our credit cards, but ask one person to keep track of things and we settle up any big differences by the couple who owes the most paying the next tab, or at the end of every week. Works fine.

Thanks for the answers, people are even now being gauche in NYC regarding splitting bills. This is becoming in business due to financial constraint and the disproportionate amount of authority given to the rice and bean counters.

The problem is that two women drink and two women do not. And the custom among them now is get separate bills. I think it is more common in areas inhabited by seniors.

I have warned my sister about traveling with others and this trip is extremely important to her. She has only been to Europe once and is afraid of the language and cultural differences plus crime.

We have given her tips about traveling but.....

Italians would consider it a huge inconvenience and probably let you know that.I don't like to piss off wait staff in foreign countries,so I would suggest your sister and her friends find another way to pay their restaurant bills.It's not rocket science divvying up a three-way bill.

St Cirq-I will pass on your admonition.

They might do it or they might not. Why not go with an agreed option in hand to deal with it if the server will not split the bill? Walk away, making a scene with the waiter, or an option acceptable to both parties, or whatever? Also on drinking. Are they assuming that if two women drink and others don't in Italy, the two drinkers would add more to the bill than the non drinkers? If two drinkers share a pitcher of house wine, which are usually pretty good in Italy, and the others get soft drinks, the ones who drank soft drinks would probably add just as much or even more to the bill. They are not in the U.S.
For people traveling together, splitting restaurant bill would be just one of many cost sharing issues. I hope they have thought out key issues beyond restaurants.

It seems the other women drink more than wine.

They have discussed interests, what they want to do and see, what type of hotels, modes of transportation, and how to split up for a day if they want to do different things.

I have made suggestions as to make the money easier for the day, the differences in transportation, food, tickets for museums, day trips,and the culture in general. I believe they are more shoppers and major tourist sight types than museum goers and back alley restaurants habitues.

I am going to suggest that they use a calculator that I am sure one or all will have on some electronic devise. Janisj confirmed my suspicions. The Italians are very generous when you try to speak their language and if their command was greater, I suppose a place here or there would be accommodating, but since that is not the case, it will probably cause more problems.

And thank you again for the true life tales of woe.

One time my wife and I went to London with my mother and when we returned to the States, the customs official asked the usual questions and when I explained the situation, he waved me through and said, "You've had enough already."

I am not sure how often the group has spent time each other in a setting where they got presented with sharing cost, time, space, and interest several times a day as well as day after day. While they can split up at times, that is not possible for all instances. With this many people in a party, people can change mind at the last minutes depending on a whim or when one gets tired, does not want to wake up early, etc. all impacting whatever cost sharing arrangement people might have thought of. The "this is why I will always travel solo" trip report is a reminder of how sour a group trip can become.
I presume the trip is imminent, so there is no opportunity for a short trial balloon trip to test the group dynamics if they have not done this before. A trip has inherently unpredictable elements and one often gains insights into how others really behave due to the needs to make many decisions on a fly. Sometimes one gets pleasantly surprised and sometimes the other way.

If you do decide to ask for separate bills -- anywhere -- it is helpful to ask the waiter before you order.

I've never asked for separate checks in Italy (and hardly ever in most other places, including the US). But I agree that you should ask first. And here's my advice if the wait person makes a big deal about it: leave. As a customer, I refuse to be intimidated by the people who want my business but are discourteous.

Funny thing about southern Italy: In several family-owned restaurants, after the meal, the waiter wouldn't even present us with a bill. Instead he'd say something like "Oh, it's 15 euros a person." Instant separate checks.

"And here's my advice if the wait person makes a big deal about it: leave. As a customer, I refuse to be intimidated by the people who want my business but are discourteous."

And here's my advice. If a customer makes an unreasonable request,politely surcharge him.

All self-respecting businesses should refuse to be intimidated by "customers" who want their indulgences pandered to at the expense of looking after real clients.

IMDonehere,

One thing I like to have available when dining out (on either side of the pond) is plenty of smaller bills/ change along with larger bills. It makes splitting a check so much easier.

Before leaving the hotel in the morning, I often change larger bills into smaller amounts at the front desk. Makes it easier in the day’s travel…

I can see that it might be necessary to have separate checks if two people are traveling for business and their accounting departments are very particular. I've never been in this situation in Italy, but I know that separate checks are not done here.

As others have said, there's no tax added, and no percentage tip to be calculated, so I don't see how it can be a problem. If there's a 10% service charge, each person adds 10% to what she owes. If there's a "pane e coperto" charge, that get's split four ways. One of them can bring a calculator and figure it out.

You would definitely have to ask for separate checks before ordering, but I strongly advise you not to do it. Many restaurants now use hand-held computers to take the orders and the whole thing ends up tied to the tax records, so once the order has been placed, it might very well be impossible. It's possibly even difficult if you ask before ordering, because the table number is shown on the printout, and it might not be possible to have duplicates.

The heavy drinkers are going to have another shock. Restaurants in Italy don't serve martinis or other cocktails or liquor with meals. The most they can get in a tiny aperitivo (often bubbly) before the meal and a tiny digestivo (limoncello or the like) afterwards. Often these are offered by the house. With the meal, it will be wine or beer.

We often dine with friends who drink wine, and we don't. Also, my husband and I usually split a second course, and I often have an appetizer instead of first course. We always divide the bill equally anyway. Call it the price of friendship.

I'm with Flanner on this one. I suppose that four separate tables wouldn't work, but why share a table for four? Plonk the drinkers on a table of their own.

What do the traveling companions drink other than wine? Hard alcohol is part of aperitivo or after dinner, but not customary to have with a proper restaurant meal.

I remember sitting in a restaurant in Gran Canaria and watching a large group of German diners being given their separate bills - in German! I would think as others have mentioned that they would have warned the staff beforehand that they wanted to do this.

>>All self-respecting businesses should refuse to be intimidated by "customers" who want their indulgences pandered to at the expense of looking after real clients.<<

LOL. Separate checks = "pampered indulgences." Weird.

I think your sister is traveling with the wrong people, frankly.

^^^"We often dine with friends who drink wine, and we don't. Also, my husband and I usually split a second course, and I often have an appetizer instead of first course. We always divide the bill equally anyway. Call it the price of friendship."

please tell me your friends do something to compensate for this - otherwise I'd call it something else entirely.

Thank you again for your observations and advice.

My sister, as does my mother, live in retirement communities. If Margaret Mead was alive today, she need not go to Somoa but to these developments for a study. The interactions, the developed behaviors, and the relationships are different than in our areas. They take with them these characteristics when they leave the confines. And although I have politely warned her of the perils of traveling with others, she is very much a social animal, who relishes these things.

Businesses (self-respecting and otherwise) need to remember that the customers are the reason they can stay in business at all. While the customer obviously is not always right, he/she/they are paying your salary and helping insure that the bottom line is written in black ink. I have recently encountered so-called service people who don't seem to realize that I and others like me are the source of their income.

Jaja, you must be a fellow American!

You are of course right at some level but if you go to Europe with this attitude, you will have a miserable time.

My favorite experience was in an Asian restaurant in France that would not serve two certain appetizers to a couple " because they don't go together." In the US the waitstaff would give them what they want, then go back in the kitchen and have a good laugh with the line cooks about what barbarians they are. But in France, many restaurants and even cafes have integrity. This, they say, is how we do it, and if you don't like it, feel free to go elsewhere.

It is really like going to someone's home for dinner. Unless you have real allergies, you eat what they put before you with thankfulness for their time and kindness, even if it is something horrible like beets or lentils. No, no, I jest.

I appreciate professional service, and in the US I have given 1 cent tips twice, just so the server knew I hadn't forgotten them or what they had done. Yes, I told them why. But you don't really tip in Europe anyway, so there really isn't any way to retaliate without staying home, which is probably a good idea.

It is universal. There is an Italian restaurant in the East Village in NYC that must be run by Mussolini's grand daughters. They will not permit cheese on fish, they will not bring bread until the entree is served, if your party is not complete you must wait outside even if there is a snow storm or pestilence. We have not been in there in over 10 years even the food is good and reasonably priced.

Quote <b>IMDonehere</b>: <i>"There is an Italian restaurant in the East Village in NYC that must be run by Mussolini's grand daughters. They will not permit cheese on fish..."</i>

And quite right too! With the notable exception of a haddock or cod mornay when would it be otherwise?

Though to be honest I really fail to understand the American fascination for cheese on all things, almost to the point of no exception.

Dr D.

Yes Americans should be shot or hung for their undue addiction to cheese.

I hope you are not British with all all their various food fetishes that are cooked versions of Ipecac?

jaja: >><i>Businesses (self-respecting and otherwise) need to remember that the customers are the reason they can stay in business at all. While the customer obviously is not always right, he/she/they are paying your salary and helping insure that the bottom line is written in black ink. I have recently encountered so-called service people who don't seem to realize that I and others like me are the source of their income.</i><<

When you visit other countries I certainly hope you follow the customs there and not insist 'they need to do it just like at home'. Separate checks are more 'normal' in the States and in some restaurants they will even ask if that is what you want before you order. This is NOT the norm in Europe so you can't expect them to do it. Their POS systems are not set up to produce 4 bills for one party. It wouldn't cross their mind to do this. They aren't being rude or giving bad service - they are doing what is expected/normal.

I've never seen it in Italy or the UK
Call me a horrible old snob, but I hate that scratching about with pennies. "Nellie had wine". "Oh, but I didn't have a pudding".
If people started making a great fuss asking for separate bills, I'd want to sink through the floor. Divide the bill equally, then if you must, take it back to the hotel and fight it out there

You would never be offered cheese with fish in Italy, although if you asked for it, they would probably bring it. I wouldn't dream of trying.

NYSE, what's wrong with splitting a bill six or eight ways when the orders aren't equal? They would be just as happy to split it if we had ordered more than they did. Here in Italy, or at least in our circles, people almost always split the bill regardless of who ordered what. Wine isn't terribly expensive in Italy anyway, and most people order the house wine. Sometimes one person says, "This isn't fair, I ordered something expensive.", but the others usually shoot that protest down.

If the restaurant is closer to their house than ours, should we ask them to contribute to the fuel cost?

We travel with a common kitty which is held by one person and fed as the holder tells us that it is getting low--everyone puts the same amount in it. Rather than give the waiters a headache, pay a single combined bill but have the drinkers keep track of the cost of their drinks to be settled afterwards by feeding the kitty what the drinkers owe.

>>but if you go to Europe with this attitude, you will have a miserable time. <<
Been to Europe many times with that "attitude" and have had great times.

>>This, they say, is how we do it, and if you don't like it, feel free to go elsewhere.<<
And I am in full agreement with such establishments. I am fully open to recommendations re food combinations. Fiats? No.

>>It is really like going to someone's home for dinner.<<
No, it's not. And I agree that when someone serves you a meal in their home, you should praise and devour it. In a restaurant where you're paying for the meal? C'mon. You're kidding, right?

>> But you don't really tip in Europe anyway, so there really isn't any way to retaliate without staying home, which is probably a good idea.<<
Right. Because the choices are so limited. I don't expect perfection or that the place will meet my every need. I do expect to be respected as a customer, just as I respect the staff at the restaurant.

>>Though to be honest I really fail to understand the American fascination for cheese on all things, almost to the point of no exception.<<
It's a legacy from the American Revolution, when colonists believed it would repel Brits.

Exactly. With friends who regularly eat out together, it tends to even out anyway. What does it matter if you overpay your share one evening. We're usually not talking about huge sums

<i><font color=#555555>"why should wait staff have to deal with 4 different credit cards - making change 4 times?"</font></i>

The word is <b>service</b>. If you don't know how to define customer service, then you should not own or work in a service business.

<i><font color=#555555>"people are even now being gauche in NYC regarding splitting bills. This is becoming in business due to financial constraint and the disproportionate amount of authority given to the rice and bean counters."</font></i>

Say what?

There are plenty of very good reasons why four (or more) people dining together might want or need separate checks. Not every person dining in a restaurant is a tourist on vacation with (cheap) friends.

There are thousands of corporate business travelers who are required to "front" their business expenses. And I'm not just talking about low-level employees. I know plenty of senior executives in "big" business who don't get expense accounts. In order to get reimbursed for food expense on the road, a receipt is required. If you are self-employed, you need the dining receipt in order to take the tax deduction. Why should four individuals attending the same conference, workshop, or symposium sit at individual tables just to get their own receipt? It makes absolutely no sense to me why a restaurant wouldn't fully understand this simple need of many customers.

<i><font color=#555555>"Italians would consider it a huge inconvenience and probably let you know that."</font></i>

I've been to many business meals in Italy, and I've never experienced a problem requesting individual receipts. Italian restaurant owners understand the specific receipt needs of its business customers, local or international. There are plenty of rude waiters in the world. That's a separate issue.

<i><font color=#555555>"But I agree that you should ask first. And here's my advice if the wait person makes a big deal about it: leave."</font></i>

Exactly right. State your receipt needs up front and be clear. If a waiter turns rude, leave.

<i><font color=#555555>"And here's my advice. If a customer makes an unreasonable request,politely surcharge him."</font></i>

In the service business, there should be no need to charge extra for providing a simple, much-needed service, unless you wish to show disdain for a certain kind of customer. If showing disdain to certain customers is your business MO, good luck with that.

<i><font color=#555555>"All self-respecting businesses should refuse to be intimidated by "customers" who want their indulgences pandered to"</font></i>

Again, the need for a receipt for many travelers has absolutely nothing to do with self-indulgence. Some of you posters possess of a very narrow-minded view of travel. This thread reveals plenty of narrow minds.

I understand each person wanting to pay only their own share of the bill. They simply need to learn to do the math (with calculator, one person designated as banker, each person adds up their own when they order, any of those would work).


<It seems the other women drink more than wine.> good luck with that. I found hard-liquor cocktails are a lot less common in Europe than the US.

There's a bit of bull puffery going on in this thread.

Waitstaff in Europe can be a bit more authoritarian than in the US, where waiters and waitresses depend on tips.

We've been told in Rome, "no cheese for you," which we still laugh about, and in Paris, "no, in France you can't have your steak like that," when I asked for it to be just a little more cooked than rare. I've also had a waiter in Rome huff at me when I asked for aceto rosso instead of the aceto bianco he had plunked on the table.