Seeking wedding planning advice from Irish Fodorites
 

I realize that this is a topic that more appropriately belongs in the lounge. But I'm afraid I wouldn't reach my "target audience" there. So I'm hoping the editors will bear with me!

As I've mentioned before, my daughter is marrying an Irishman she met while doing a school internship there last year. The plans have been in constant flux. But, basically, the hope is for them to have a quickie justice of the peace wedding here in October or November. And then have a church wedding in Ireland about this time next year.

Several different ideas have been discussed, looked into and then rejected. My daughter leaves in less than two weeks to spend three months in Ireland. Her fiance will be coming back with her. So they really need to use this time to begin to nail things down.

Her fiance has two older sisters who are married. Our impression is that both of their weddings were more "upscale" than my daughter and her fiance want. With that in mind, we're trying to find out whether there is such a thing as a traditional Catholic "country" Irish wedding.

To give you an idea of what I mean: My husband and I grew up in a small town in southern Illinois where the population is made up of probably 95% Catholics of German heritage. There is very definitely a traditional Clinton County wedding that's been pretty much the same for at least the past 40 years. (The major changes took place back when Catholics no longer had to fast before Communion which put an end to the 8:00 A.M. wedding Masses!) Most weddings now take place early to mid afternoon in the parish church. They're followed by a reception at either the American Legion Hall or the Knights of Columbus Hall. The reception starts with an open bar for an hour or two (while the wedding party is still at church taking pictures). And is then followed by a meal which always consists of fried chicken, roast beef, mashed potatoes and gravy, green beans and cole slaw and sometimes includes dressing and/or mostociolli. There's always a dance in the evening, the music for which has, sadly, in the past 20 to 25 years been done by a DJ rather than the great old wedding bands that used to always play. Traditionally, the wedding party goes bar hopping between the meal and the dance. And it's no longer an "open bar" once the dance begins.

Is there a comparable type of traditional Irish wedding? The tentative plan is to hold the reception at the groom's parents home. But they want it to be a warm, welcoming party rather than a stuffy affair. And would love to incorporate traditional touches.

Any stories, suggestions, help of any kind would be much appreciated!:)

And, to those of you who've made it this far, thank you very much for bearing with this very long post!

Hi, Caph52, What fun. Can't wait to read the responses. I want to come! Not possible but I can be with you in thought.
Regards, Joan

Joan, I hope you know that you are more than welcome to be there in body as well as spirit! I'll keep you posted on the date. Meanwhile, thanks so much for your very sweet note!

When my daughter talked to her fiance earlier today she asked him whether a wedding cake is traditional in Ireland. He didn't seem to know! Can anyone answer her question?

We realize that she's going to be able to get a lot of info from his sisters and mother once she gets there. But the more she knows and can "work through" before she goes, the more they can accomplish together during that three months.

CAPH52, Nothing I can say is likely to be of much help. There is nothing now, nor for decades has there been, anything like an Irish country wedding. Weddings here are big, brash, somewhat vulgar, and very expensive. Even those who cannot afford them have expensive weddings.

The idea of a reception at home is unusual. The norm here is a meal for anything between 100 and 300 people at a hotel with speeches and dancing afterwards (with a live band) with a budget of €5-20,000 for the reception alone. Of course, some people do something more modest, but that is seen as going against convention. One way people manage to get away from expectations is to marry outside Ireland, Rome being a popular choice.

Daughter, fiance and his family, and you seem to be set on something more intimate. Personally, I like the sound of that (he says, as he contemplates the invitation he received this week to the wedding of a couple he has never met but who will live nearby after they are married).

I'll have a think about it, and see if I can suggest some thoughts to give the day an Irish twist. You could watch The Quiet Man for ideas!

Google gave me these:
http://www.hudsonvalleyweddings.com/guide/irish.htm
http://www.ireland-information.com/a...traditions.htm
http://www.littleshamrocks.com/Irish-Wedding.html
http://www.fantasy-ireland.com/Irish...-weddings.html

They are wonderfully wrong, but they might amuse the young couple and yourself. Whatever you do, do not allow these to be templates.

A more irreverent (and more authentically Irish) one: http://www.p45.net/boards/showthread.php?t=95481

Padraig, thanks very much for the enlightening and entertaining links! And for your very informative words. Your post was a real eye-opener! Unfortunately, it sounds like modern Irish weddings are pretty much everything my daughter is trying to escape! I'm guessing that her fiance's sisters' weddings were very much like the wedding her best friend is planning here.

One bright spot is that, since she's not Irish, maybe my daughter can more easily get away with doing something different. They'll just think she's a little odd! ;)

As I think I've mentioned before, they'd originally hoped to be married in the small old church near Portumna where both sets of the fiance's grandparents were married. I think that would have been lovely. But he visited it recently and found it to be somewhat run-down. And they decided that, logistically, it would be much easier to have it in his parents' parish in County Meath. Aside from other factors, it's closer to Dublin airport than the other would have been to Shannon.

I know emphatically that a hotel reception is not what my daughter wants. And I feel strongly that they should have a wedding that suits their personalties. Most of all, I don't want to see her as stressed as she gets every time she starts to worry about what other people expect their wedding to be. It's their day. To be incredibly corny about it, it should be about celebrating their love with the people they care about. Not about doing what's expected of them or trying to impress others.

My husband and I bucked the trend and didn't have the traditional Clinton County wedding. We did, of course, get married at my parish church. And our reception was at the K.C. Hall. But we didn't have the big chicken and beef dinner (sandwiches and salads instead) and didn't have a dance. As much as I enjoy those weddings (and am going to one this weekend!), the sit-down dinner (with speeches) and the dance just wasn't "us".

I think his family thought I was a little strange at the time! But I have no regrets. We had the wedding we wanted. I want them to have the one they want. So we'll keep working on it!

CAPH52 wrote: "It's their day. To be incredibly corny about it, it should be about celebrating their love with the people they care about. Not about doing what's expected of them or trying to impress others."

I agree 100% (not 110%, because I don't go in for hyperbole). So I must be corny, too.

Not a lot of information in this link, but what there is is good: http://irishfamilyhistory.ie/blog/?cat=34

When you have a lot of time to spare, and want to be relieved that you are not going down the road with the majority in Ireland, dip into: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forum...amp;order=desc

It's a pity about Portumna; it's a lovely place. Whereabouts in Co. Meath? I know the county a bit, and the location might trigger an idea or two.

Padraig, I haven't checked out the second link. But I glanced at the first and it looks like a very nice website. Will definitely be going back there. Thanks!

I'm going to have to get back to you on the location. My kids are at the Cubs game and won't be back for several hours. And, unfortunately, I'm not terribly clear on exactly where his parents live. I know that it's in the country and that the address is a cottage or house name rather than a street address. They've talked about it's "not being far" from Tara and Newgrange.
One of the sisters lives in Navan which again is "not far". And it is apparently about an hours bus ride from Dublin. Not much help, I know! And my daughter might not be able to tell me a lot more than that as she's never been the one driving when she's been there. (Although she may know the name of the parish.) I may have to wait until she talks to him tomorrow to tell you anything more specific.

But I very much appreciate your offer to tell me whether the location triggers any ideas!

Offhand, do you know whether the idea of trying to get traditional musicians to play at the reception is a realistic one? As I said, I know the weddings where we grew up (and I think here as well) all seem to use DJs because it's cheaper. And, I suspect, because wedding bands are now few and far between. Judging by the number of pubs that have traditional music, it seems like they'd be easier to find. But I wonder whether they "do weddings"? And how expensive they'd be? So many things to think about!

Just one note - I assume the couple is Catholic. Marriage is a sacrament - and if they've already been married here then they are married. I'm not at all sure they can be "married" again in a church there. Have you checked this part out?

This needs to be organized with the church and the priest who would be "presiding" over the ceremony. I would think the first step to be a meeting with his parish priest.

nytraveler, it's not a problem. A marriage in a Catholic church in Ireland has two distinct elements: the religious ceremony and what is termed "the signing of the registry", which is a civil ceremony. Where a couple is already legally married, they simply omit the latter part.

But yes, it is appropriate to contact the parish priest well in advance for a number of reasons.

NYT, yes, they're both Catholic. And, considering that he already has the info on what we used to call Pre-Cana (have forgotten what it's called now), I think the fiance has already talked to their parish priest.

Believe me, having been raised Catholic (12 years of Catholic school) and married in the church, I know from experience that it can be difficult! But, first of all, my understanding has always been that the Catholic church doesn't recognize any marriage not occuring in the church. That's why it's much easier for people who were married out of the church and then divorced to remarry in the church than for those who were married in the church and then divorced to remarry in the church. So, theoretically, the church won't recognize my daughter and FSIL's first marriage. Secondly, I would hope that they might take into consideration the extenuating circumstances. (Though, again, I know how rigid they can be. However, our past experience has been that many things can be "overlooked" if you have a priest who's a friend of the family!)

But I do very much appreciate your "heads up"!

Padraig, thanks so much for that explaination that was so much simpler and to the point than mine! I didn't know about the "two parts". But that makes a lot of sense.

After I posted, I realized that I've heard of couples here who were married in civil ceremonies and later chose to be married in the church.

CAPH52 wrote: "Offhand, do you know whether the idea of trying to get traditional musicians to play at the reception is a realistic one?"

There is no shortage of musicians, but I have no idea of what they cost. It's an area where you should be careful, particularly about what the Irish family might like. Most Irish people enjoy a bit of the di-diddle-dee-ah, but would not want a whole evening of dancing to it. A thing that is sometimes done is to have a traditional musician or group play for a while after the end of the meal before the wedding band or disco takes over for the evening's dancing.

[I was a Cubs fan for a few weeks way back when I spent part of a student summer near Chicago; never got to Wrigley field, but watched all the games on the goggle-box.]

We are not a religious family so our best friend got a one day JP license to marry my son and his fiancee. It was at the bride's grandfathers house (he was an Aushwitz survivor who died a month after the wedding) I played the harp, it was an incredibly beautiful ceremony.

He created the most beautiful ceremony with many aspects of celtic lore. The binding of the hands of the bride and groom with a ribbon that had celtic knotwork on it.

The officiant asked the couple a question and the brides mother wove a ribon around their hands as she spoke a blessing she had written. The second question was asked and the Mother of the groom (me :)) wrapped a ribon around their hands and I spoke a blessing I wrote for them.
The third and fourth questions were asked of the bride's father and then the groom's father each followed by the ribbon wrapping and the blessing.

The parents then sat down for continued vows that they wrote for each other and then the ribbons were unbound as they were pronounced husband and wife.

My point is that your daughter may be able to connect with a JP who will do a lovely ceremony in a place that has meaning to them. It can be attented by only a few close friends and family, but it will be a beautiful memory, and not a hasty city hall deal. Little expense just a few loving people to share this special day.

Very good advice about the band, Padraig. And, actually, that's more what we're looking for is "background music" rather than dancing music. I'm guessing that they're not going to want to have a dance per se. But am not completely sure. The fiance has mentioned wanting a ceili atmosphere but I think he meant it more in terms of a party than a dance. I do know that his mother enjoys traditional music.

It's a shame that you didn't make it to Wrigley! It's especially fun right now as they're doing well. But I suspect that you weren't a fan long enough to know the great hardships of being a Cubs fan! As you may have heard, this is the 100th anniversary of the last time they won the World Series. Perhaps you've heard stories of a curse involving a goat...

Sounds like a beautiful ceremony, Celticharper! And one that was very meaningful to them and to you.

As I mentioned, these wedding plans have been in constant flux! Originally, they thought that for the first wedding, the one here, they'd be married by the father of my daughter's best friend who, although he doesn't work as one, is an ordained minister. They even offered their backyard for the ceremony and a barbecue. But then we found out that the immigration stuff would take so long that, by the time they can get married, it'll be too late for an outdoor wedding.

As they rethought things, they decided that they really don't want to make a big deal of the first wedding. The main purpose of that wedding is so that the fiance can stay in the US until they're able to go back to Ireland for the more formal wedding. Basically, they want to be together. But they don't want to be rushed to do the Irish wedding (which they want to be the "main" wedding as they feel that, because they'll be living here, it's only fair to his family to have their wedding there). And they don't want to make such a big deal of the first wedding that his family feels they need to come here for it. And then a few months later, we all go there for the one in Ireland...It begins to get a bit ridiculous.

Believe me, if current U.S. immigration laws were not such a big factor, they'd be doing all of this much differently!

I know the immigration problems indeed. I played my harp for one of our friends daughters who married last summer. She also married an Irishman, but the family came here for the wedding.
He also has some nightmares regarding his paperwork, to the point where he couldn't go home to see him mom who they found out had a brain tumor only two months before the wedding. It just wasn't safe, he was afraid he'd not be allowed back into the country

How sad, Celticharper! I hope the mother was able to come for the wedding and is doing better now.

Padraig, they live in Kentstown.

Kentstown stumps me. I am not aware of any special things about the place. It's just off the N2, the main road between Dublin and Derry, in the heart of the rich pasture land of Co. Meath. Quite convenient for Dublin Airport (30 minutes).

Slane, an attractive village with plenty of interesting history, is about five miles to the north. It's a good place to get a few photos of the newlyweds. If you change your minds, and decide to go for the throw-silly-amounts-of-money-at-it approach, consider http://www.themillhouse.ie/default.aspx

I'm sure you are hoping that our recently-wed SiobhanP turns up soon in this thread. Why authorised her to take time off?

This is definately second or third hand information and any Irish residents can correct me.

When our best friends sister was married in Ireland, probably 20 years now so things might have changed, she wanted carrot cake for her wedding cake. She was told that they didn't have brown sugar in Ireland so she brought 5 pounds with her. She was stopped and searched and the brown sugar was taken away because they said it could be used to make bombs????

She ended up with a delicious carrot cake made with regular sugar!

No brown sugar in Ireland? Sounds like an urban myth to me or, at the least, that your best friend's sister was misled.

We have a saying here (coined in the days before gender equity): dúirt bean lion go ndúirt bean léi... meaning that a woman told me that a woman told her...

Modern Irish weddings are like weddings everywhere else - you can go the whole hog with hundreds of guests or you can have a quiet family celebration.

In our case after the church ceremony we booked an entire restaurant for the afternoon and had a quiet family meal with 40 guests. This was followed by a party in a separate venue that evening for about 70 more of our extended family and friends. I have never heard of the "bar-hopping" thing before. It's normal to have an open bar for the first couple of drinks

Be aware that if you get married in a Catholic church the couple may be asked by their priest to do a pre-wedding course - more details here - http://www.accord.ie/marriage_preparation_programme/

Waiting lists for these programmes can be long and many priests will refuse to marry a couple unless they have taken part in one. It's important that they talk to the parish priest of the church that they intend to get married in as soon as possible - even if they don't intend him to marry them he needs to book them into the church, counsel them about marriage and he can advise about things like Letters of Freedom, which can take a while to sort out.

Wedding cake is VERY traditional in Ireland - it's usually made by the Bride or the Groom's mother and normally it's a fruit cake with a sugar icing (usually the icing is quite fancy and done professionally).

Padraig, thanks a lot for the info on Slane.

Interesting story, Susanna!

And thanks for your post, ter2000. My understanding is that the fiance has already arranged for them to do the pre-wedding thing sometime in the next few months. My daughter just mentioned yesterday that she needs to get a copy of her Confirmation Certificate. I thought she'd have to have a Baptismal Certificate too. But she said apparently they assume if you've been Confirmed, you've obviously been Baptised!

I very much appreciate your info on the cake.

caph...SORRY i DID NOT SEE THIS...hELP IS HERE!

I just got married last Nov...lots of info.

OK just scanned above some comments.

If she is to get married in the Church here she needs a letter of freedom or something like that for the parish priest who is marrying her. Its a nightmare all this nonsense and I almost convined my other ghalf to run away to rome togethare with the pain of this paperwork! They must do a pre marriage course and get it signed and sent to the priest (You can do a one day course and it was taught by 2 counsellors)

You can rent places off the beaten path and not hotel ish but they expect a meal! DO NOT have an open bar its not done here unless you are in a castle and paying thousands. I had a tab and made sure my dada bought family and close friends drinks but the others will drink you dry :-) You serve wine that you pay for at the meal.

I bought my wine in Ennis from the wine buff and paid the same as house wine in the hotel for theirs with corkage and its was better.

Caterers charge corkage per bottle so If you have a caterer beat them down! Absolute rip off.

I had a few fellas playing trad music after the church in the hotel where we had tea and mulled wine (No food cocktail hour here so that saves some $$ maybe that was just a NY thing). I also did not want a rubbish sad wedding band and got a DJ and told him all the music I wanted to hear and he also played a lot of trad music for my family i.e. seige of ennis to dance and some show band songs for the older aunties.

Food - we did pour reception in the old ground but I know there are some social clubs or GAA clubs that rent out but...they are not the most glam places. What money are we talking total for the wedding and I can give you an idea. Caph maybe leave you mail address and I can send my links for cakes etc...yes we have cake too! I had a fruit on top, Carrott and white cake, 3 tiers and so tasty.

Most suppliers I found though www.weddingsonline.ie My church singer was lovely and used to sing with an Irish grup called anuna. I am not loaded and spent more than I wanted but I did it on somewhat of a budget.

Let me know how to contact you and I will mail my files! Don't worry

Thanks, Siobhan! It's my screen name here at aol.

The pre marriage course is already arranged. But I need to make sure the fiance knows about the letter of freedom so my daughter can do whatever she needs to for that.

As I've mentioned several times, they want the wedding in Ireland for his family since they plan to live here. But I'm beginning to doubt the wisdom of that decision...

Then again, it probably wouldn't be any easier here. There was a priest at a very small parish in southern Illinois who was a good friend of my MIL's family. He Baptised both of our kids as well as many of my DH's nieces and nephews and married several of DH's sisters (he has 7 of them). We could always count on him for a lovely ceremony with a minimum of paperwork/fuss. Unfotunately, he died a few years back. And I'm afraid he was one of a kind.

OK I re-read all posts and sorry about the spelling...at work now. Get her baptismal anyway. I had to get mine as well as confirmation and the Church my mother told me was the wrong one in the bronx and caused hassle as the woman was a nightmare and they had a fire years ago and thought maybe that was the prob...well its was where my brother was baptised not me! Got the lovely priest on the phone from the new church and he send everything asap and was so sweet.

Priest here I had to use my local parish or "the hood" as we like to call it. He had nothing to do with the wedding but it was considered my parish even though I never darkened their door and he did the paperwork...worried when we gave the same address as residence he might be funny with us but did not bat an eye. Hey we all tend to live together here before marriage :-)

Slane or that area could be good for venues.

Thanks again, Siobhan! And where are my manners?! Belated Best Wishes on your marriage!

You can rent smaller rooms (ie not a massive banqueting hall)in Castle Leslie
http://www.castleleslie.com/

Thanks, Lawchick. It looks like an amazing place! A bit more "upscale" than we're thinking right now. But will keep it in mind.

How's your little fairy princess doing?

CAPH52 wrote: "As I've mentioned several times, they want the wedding in Ireland for his family since they plan to live here. But I'm beginning to doubt the wisdom of that decision..."

And you will doubt many other things over the next year or so! That's normal. Despite many cinema-goers liking the idea, I don't think that the father of the bride is a proper subject for comedy; the mother of the bride is the one who can lose the plot.

Stay cool; focus. What do the young couple want? It's your job, as far as is reasonably possible, to deliver that. [I'll give you that "reasonably possible" is a big getout clause that allows you scope for negotiation.]

Whatever you do about the wedding will almost certainly be fine. And it's far less important than the years of happiness that we all hope the young couple experience afterwards.

Caph, you can rent rooms in Castle Leslie much more cheaply than you imagine. A friend of mine just had her 40th birthday there...unfortunately I couldn't make it.

Fairy Princess is doing great. She went back to the hospital for a check up on Monday and now is the average size for an 8 month old baby even though she's 10 weeks premature. The Doctors were really impressed....I can't tell you how happy I am. We're "practising" at the creche at the moment as I'm back to work on Monday after 10 months.

Congratulations on your daughters forthcoming nuptials! It's not easy to organise a wedding in a foreign country. I had mine in Austria. It was a nightmare to organise...but in the end it all works out.

Thanks once again for your words of wisdom, Padraig. I certainly agree that it's the marriage that truly matters, not the wedding! And I do have faith that we'll pull this off!

So glad to hear that your daughter is doing well, Lawchick. I'm sure going back to work won't be easy. Good luck! And thanks for your good wishes!

Just thinking here...its tough getting a place that is not a hotel....depending on the size you could do a Church service, Then meal in a restaurant and hire a room in a pub after but...you really can't ask people to come from Galway and exclude them from Dinner and say come back in 3 hours for the "reception" part. Maybe a small simple hotel or keep numbers down which will be tough to do to be honest. Castle leslie is a place i have wanted to go to for ages. I think of it as an "alternative" castle...eccentric family, they renovated the Satables for accommodation and do fun foodie nights. Maybe the cost is prohibitive

OK another place is the station house hotel that was an old train station in Meath http://www.irishweddingvenues.com/in...showproduct=37 Someoe mentioned to me this place when I was looking. IS more intimate.

Also another place I booked and then changed to a bigger place was the Temple gate hotel in Ennis. Its an old convent converted into a hotel but not all shiny new glass its older looking and the hall is actuall I think the chapel from the convent days. they were more reasonable and a bit smaller but helpful. http://www.irishweddingvenues.com/in...howproduct=847 Don't mind all the OTT pictures in Brochures...you can make any place your own with decor. Ennis is great for Shannon (Which is why I chose it and I have family there) and close to Galway. People were so kind and helpful in towen and everyine will make reccommendations and advice that is genuine...N even got a car for free when someone heard we did not have one the day before! We also ended up in the local paper too funny.

What is you budget and realistic numbers?

OK in Dublin some other smaller and more intimate places and nice on a sunny day is the Schoolhouse Hotel Northumberland rd. Its a renovated school house with a pub attached and a few hotel rooms. http://www.schoolhouse.ie/ this is the restaurant picture and they were very helpful when looking at places. Its a nice place can't remember prices.

The courtyard is a larger restaurant in Donnybrook, Dublin
http://www.venuesearch.ie/venuelisti...8df3fe6d4eefb/ This could be nice for a group and you could choose a nearby church. Its a restaurant with a separate larger room. Have not been in years but again it was another place I was thinking of.

Here are some venue websites http://www.venuesearch.ie/

and another http://www.irishweddingvenues.com/

The family would also know any small halls or places like a GAA club that may have facilities for weddings. I heard or two larger GAA clubs in Dublin that do private functions and are meant to be newer places or stick to Galway...do the Church and large dinner foe close family at a good restaurant and rent a room in a hotel or Pub for the DAncing and drinking! That may be the best option. He is she looking for a dress??? I had two (one came too late) never worn and I am selling :-)

Slow down, SiobhanP! CAPH52 said "The tentative plan is to hold the reception at the groom's parents home."

They might be contemplating quite small numbers, or they might have a spacious home.

There is always the possibility of marquee and caterers. A party on top of the tumulus at Newgrange might be fun.

Sorry thought that was one option. I think If you get a marqee no matter what the weather it should be nice as long as there is room for everyone. You can get it catered and have a lovely do.

Padraig...as for newgrange, I would love that Bit of Pagan bit of Catholic all mixed into one! The whole church lark was tough to sort and wanted to leave it but did it for both our families. Ah well thats life and all were happy in the end.

Best of luck with the wedding planning. Make sure your daughter and her fiance look into the paperwork for immigration to the U.S. They have made a wise decision to have marriage docs here in teh U.S. I also married an Irishman-now 3 years ago. We were interested in moving to the U.S. as we had been in Europe for a few years. We knew if we got married in the U.S. and filed all necessary paperwork here it would take some time so we got married in the U.S. and then went back to The Netherlands where we were living to file paperwork which only took three months compared to up to a year in the U.S. Not sure how things have changed immigration wise, but I do understand the frustrations of it all! Irish weddings can be expensive and one may feel abliged to invite everyone they've ever met which is why we had an intimate affair in Sonoma, CA. We are off this week to my sister in laws wedding in Ireland which has been in the planning for 2 years and there will be 300 or more guests. Fun yes, but I can understand a romantic smaller fun wedding instead!
Cheers to your daughter and her fiance;)