Seeking Advice: Pregnant in Paris (Esp. Cheese!)
 

Hello all - I'm seeking advice from folks who have been there done that, or at least have more knowledge than me! I'll be 20 weeks pregnant when my husband and I go to Paris for a week in October. My biggest concern is dietary - no unpasteurized cheeses and other "dangers" from poorly prepared food. For the most part I think, forget it, French babies turn out fine, but the cautious first-baby, first-pregnancy side of me says, what terrible things will I do to my baby if I eat a crepe from a street vendor or a slice of soft cheese?

Cheese is my real problem - I LOVE it. If I were to ask a waiter if it was some cheese was pasteurized, would they 1. know and 2. tell me? Or would they laugh at me for even wanting to know?

Also, is decaf coffee prevalent?

I'd love to hear any advice and comments (about non-food stuff too!). Thanks so much!

Hi BLN,

I hesitate to comment on the cheese, since I am not a physician.

Decaf coffee is available almost everywhere. Ask for "Day caf" or "Day ca fay".

Lot's of these things are disclaimers - unpasteurised cheeses 99.9 per cent of the time (if they're from a proper producer, not homemade efforts) are absolutely safe.

Talk to your doctor about these things, but catching an illness (common cold etcetera) on the plane over is a far more likely and indeed serious risk.

Hi
This topic has come up once or twice before. You might be able to find the discussions if you do a search here on the word <cheese> in the little search box above, and also click on France in the other menu.

Decaf coffee is pretty prevalent in most restaurants and bistros, maybe not in the little snack bar on the corner. Ask for 'deca'--pronounced 'day-ka' sort of.

I have a file on Paris; if you'd like to see it, email me at
[email protected]

Most cheeses sold in France are made from pasteurized milk. Cheeses made from unpasteurized milk are identified as made from <i>lait cru</i>. They are generally more expensive than the cheeses made from pasteurized milk. As for restaurants, you might just want to skip the cheese course.

Congratulations to you and your husband, BLN! This must be such an exciting time for you, and a trip to Paris, as well!

If you google &quot;travelling while pregnant&quot; you will come up with a wealth of information, including tips on travelling abroad. I suppose the best advice, food-wise, is to err on the side of caution. That would mean saving street food for another trip, and the soft cheeses as well. It might be silly, but the peace of mind it affords you will be worth it.

Years ago (more than I want to say!) my husband and I made a trip when I was six months' pregnant. It was a wonderful trip with no hiccups, though I was very, very tired from it. I look at all the photographs and I look more and more exhausted in each picture, as the days went by! So this is the advice I'd give you: take it easy in Paris and don't wear yourself out. Make room in each day for a nap and sit at lots of cafes drinking your decaf. You can always go back to Paris later with your new baby. (We took our firstborn to England at four months and it was fantastic!)

Which week will you be in Paris? We'll be there ourselves the first week.

Just be ready for the decaf coffee. It is like that nasty old Sanka stuff they used to do here. I have yet to find decent decaf in France (but in Italy yes, for some reason).

First you need to talk to your doctor to find out what he/she advises because it may be a little difficult finding pasteurized cheeses anywhere in France. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I doubt you'll find any pasteurized cheeses being served at a Parisian restaurant.

Food served in France, if you are dining at a decent restaurant, or even one that's not so decent, is never poorly prepared. There are a few exceptions to this rule, but they are few and far between and are geared toward the uneducated tourist. You will find that food preparation in Paris will be somewhat different from what you are used to if you've never traveled abroad before. A number of dishes are served cooler than what Americans are used to and meats are never overcooked as they often are in many American restaurants.

Decafe coffee is available, but then again, coffee is not consumed in the same manner as it is in the States. There is far less caffeine in a cup of espresso than there is in coffee prepared in a drip coffee maker.

Please don't let Robert alarm you - the statement that finding pasteurized cheeses in France will be difficult, and particularly difficult in a restaurant, just ain't true. I think it's safe to say there are far more pasteurized than unpasteurized cheeses all over the country, and in Parisian restaurants most every cheese tray I've ever seen was composed if not entirely, then almost entirely, of pasteurized cheeses.
You might want to check out www.fromages.com before you leave to learn about which cheeses are pasteurized. If you have any questions about any of the cheeses, there is an e-mail address on the FAQ page - [email protected] - you can write to Pascal and ask him for recommendations on what to enjoy and what to avoid.

woops - since it's Pascale, perhaps it's a she (though I've never met a woman named Pascale)

As everyone has said, talk to your doctor. Here is a list of pasteurized milk cheeses--as St. Cirq said, they are much more prevalent than is thought.

Port Salut
Pont-l?Eveque (most)
Olivet cendre
Neufchatel (some)
Nantais/Cure
Murol
Coeur d?Arras
Coeur d?Avesnes
Baguette Laonnaise
Mamirolle
Langres
Petit-Suisse
Fontainebleau (fromage frais)
Fourme d?Ambert
L?Amise du Chambetin
Emmental (Not grand cru however)
Chaumes
Aligot/Tomme Fraiche (some)
Saint Remy
Cantal (some)
Coulommiers (some)
Bresse Bleu
Bleu de Sassengage
Bleu du Quercy
Bleu d?Aubergne
Trappist de Chambaran
Trappe Chourgnal
Tomme de Romans
Tomme de Savoie (some)
Sainte Paulin
Le Pitchout
Rigotte des Alpes
Rigotte de Saint Colombe
Pithviers au Foin
Raclette (some)
As someone posted above, you can get the information from the label--lait cru.

Thanks to all of you! Great advice, all around. I will definitely check out fromages.com and get more info on which cheeses are likely &quot;safe.&quot;

I've been to Paris twice and we've traveled to Europe several times (I lived in Germany for a year as well), so I'm fairly familiar with general differences (ie coffee) - but I've never been there with this set of concerns!! :)

I will also ask my midwife, that's a great idea, not sure why I didn't think of it. :) (I'm afraid she'll tell me something I don't want to hear!) She did okay the trip - reminded me to get up lots on the plane, drink lots of water, and take it easy. I am concerned about the recycled air on the plane, but... what else can you do if you want to get to Paris?

dln - special thanks for your post! We'll be there mid October (12-17). I'm praying for good weather....

Thanks again all!

Hi BLN,

One word of advice:

You can't make up for a lifetime of cheese deprivation in a week.

I tried. I got sick.

The primary hazard in unpasteurized cheese is contamination with the bacteria listeria monocytogenes, which can be extremely damaging to your baby. Listeriosis can cause stillbirths or miscarriages.

I have read that in France doctors have different concerns. They tell pregnant women not to eat salads and raw vegetables. Those can also be contaminated with listeria, which is why pregnant women are advised not to eat unpasteurized cheese. (Salami and deli meats can also be contaminated with listeria.) I'm not mentioning this to get anyone paranoid, just to point out the differing emphases in different countries.

In BLN's situation, I would probably just stick to eating cheese that has been cooked in sauces. There will be many more opportunities to eat unpasteurized cheese.

Pascale is always a female name, I think (male is Pascal). I've known a few women with that name (not Americans), but not many.

I agree that decaf coffee is usually findable in cafes, but I think it is usually awful instant. Sometimes not, if you are lucky. Now I don't think street crepes have any unusual danger for pregnant ladies, they are just junk food in general, but I don't think they can be that harmful since they are sugar and flour, mostly (I'd avoid ones with meat).

I guess it depends what you mean by poorly prepared food, I think you mean spoiled or not kept properly. Of course there are restaurants that may not cook that well, and so have poorly prepared food in that sense. I would definitely avoid any restaurant in the tourist street areas around St Michel metro stop (ie, rue de la Huchette). I wouldn't ever eat there as a destination, but I did have something once in one of those Greek restaurants as I was around there and hungry and it was convenient -- the meat was really suspect and I wouldn't ever eat in one of those places again. Some of them even smell, I don't understand how people can be eating in them (smell from the rancid grease, etc).

ira - THANKS :) I'm so sorry about your little (big??) cheese problem!

Anonymous - yes, I'm aware of the issues. Thank you for your concern. Everything in life is a risk however, I'm sure my baby is in my more danger driving around my city than from the small chance of listeria. We all make decisions and we all live with them.

One more question for folks - we're staying in the 1st (I stayed in the 6th and 5th the other times and was ready for something Right Bank - also wanted to be able to walk to quite a bit). Any good restaurant recommendations given my concerns?? (I will scour the board for other suggestions, no worry!)

Agree totally about avoiding the restaurants on and near the rue de la Huchette. A long time ago, a friend and I were lured into one of those places and halfway through the meal I realized the thing I kept hitting with my foot under the table was a dead pigeon.
If there's someone standing in the entrance begging you to come in, that's a place to avoid at all costs.

I was going to post the same question, as I'm going to Paris next week and was concerned about the whole cheese issue. Caffeine, not so much. I've mainly been avoiding it while pregnant, but you can safely have a couple of coffees a day, even though I never have more than one.

Not sucking down the wine is going to be much harder than avoiding unpateurized cheese.

Hi BLN,

My husband and I are thinking of going to Paris this fall as well, when I will be about 6 months pregnant. We live in Northern California, but my OB is French, as is a large part of my family (who live in Paris). From what I understand, the French worry more about toxoplasmosis than listeria, though there is concern about that as well. For cheese, stay away from unpasteurized and fermented. There are so many other cheeses you can still enjoy, as others in this post have mentioned. If you do eat raw vegetables, make sure they have been well-cleaned. For whatever reason, toxoplasmosis is more of a threat in Europe than here. My doctor said she has only treated one patient for this in the States, and it was someone who had recently traveled in France.

By the way, if it helps, just before I found out I was pregnant, I had a few bites of a very soft, fermented French cheese. Tasted fine at first, then I had what felt like an extreme allergic reaction to it. Guess it was my body telling me not to bother. Every other cheese has tasted fine to me, so the forbidden cheese might not even taste that great to you right now.

As for a restaurant in the 1eme, we had a wonderful meal at Le Dauphin in May. The cuisine is South-Western French -- grilled meats, cassoulet, a good selection of vegetables. Address is 167 rue St. Honor&eacute;, 1eme; Pyramides or Tuileries metro.

Hope you are feeling great and have a wonderful trip!

Nothing to add, I was just struck by how this was one of the few truly helpful and thoughtful posts I've seen in the past few days...nice job, fodorites, and happy travels (and baby!) BLN.

A restaurant which takes pride in its cheese tray will probably have unpasteurized cheese. But as StCirq emphasized, most will have only pasteurized cheeses.

StCirq: One of my best friends in France is a woman named Pascale.

The food writer Jeffrey Steingarten claims that there are only two documented incidents of listeria from cheese, and both of these came from cheese made with <b>pasteurized</b> milk: one from <i>queso fresco</i> (sp?) made in Los Angeles, and the other from a counterfeit Epoisses.

Cheese contaminated with L.monocytogenes has a history of causing listeriosis. In 1985 Mexican-style cheese contaminated with this bacterium was directly linked to an outbreak that caused at least 142 cases of listeriosis in the USA including 48 deaths. An outbreak in Switzerland between 1983 and 1987, involving at least 122 cases including 34 deaths was due to contamination of Vacherin Mont d'Or cheese (Bille, 1990). Brie de Meaux soft cheese was the cause of an outbreak of listeriosis in France. Seventeen people were affected including nine pregnant women; the infection resulted in two stillbirths and two abortions and one elderly person was reported to be in a coma.

000246 France Reports Listeria Deaths
January 29, 2000
Paris - Seven people, including two newborn infants, have died from listeria poisoning since the end of November, France's agriculture minister said.

A total of 23 cases of listeriosis have been detected around France, and authorities believe a single food source is responsible, though they haven't yet pinpointed the source, Agriculture Minister Jean Glavany said.

On Jan. 7, officials reported two deaths and four other poisonings by Listeria, a potent bacteria found most often in cheese and meat products.

?It's an epidemic,? Glavany told reporters, and said specialists were searching for the source at stores frequented by those contaminated.

Listeria poisoning causes fever, severe headaches, stiffness, nausea and diarrhea. Healthy people typically recover quickly, but listeria can cause serious, even fatal infections in children, the elderly and people with weak immune systems.

The bacteria is particularly dangerous for pregnant women, because it can cause miscarriages and stillbirths even if the mother experienced no symptoms. Listeriosis can take up to eight weeks to incubate.

Glavany advised caution for consumers most at risk of falling ill from listeriosis, saying they should avoid products like cheese, pate and rillette, the coarsely chopped pate in which fat is added and the bacteria can flourish.

Agra Europe; 9/26/1997
A cheese plant in France has been closed until further notice following an outbreak of listeria. Fifteen people have fallen ill with the infection after eating unpasteurised cheeses -- Livarot, Pont l'Eveque and Pave d'Auge -- manufactured at the Quesney dairy in Sainte-Marguerite-de Viette near Lisieux in Normandy. Quesney has a workforce of four and supplies cheese to stores throughout the whole of France.

Company Recalls Cheese Due To Listeria Contamination June 29, 2002

De Choix Specialty Foods Co., a food importer in Woodside, N.Y., has recalled 20 cases of French cheese due to contamination with a potentially fatal bacterium. The bacterium, Listeria monocytogenes, was discovered during routine U.S. Food &amp; Drug Administration sampling of L'Or des Domes brand St.-Nectaire, a semisoft cow's milk cheese from southeastern France.

Each of the 20 cases, which bear lot #0004114, contained three 4-pound, paper-wrapped wheels produced on April 14, 2002.

De Choix president Gene Kaplan said the 14 or 15 wheels of L'Or des Domes St.-Nectaire, which is made with pasteurized milk, were all recalled before consumption.

Okay, RufusTFirefly, I get the picture! :) I'll be careful.

Thanks again to all who responded.

Rufus, you'd put me off cheese pregnant or not. :d

BLN, I haven't eaten at this restaurant but it's gotten lots of really good reviews here on Fodors and elsewhere, and it's in the 1st. It's Le Fumoir on 6 Rue de l'Admiral Coligny, one block west of Rue de Rivoli, very near the Louvre. The phone number (reservations strongly recommended) is 01 42 92 00 24. I have it on my list of restaurants I'd like to visit while in Paris.

We'll be back from our trip a few days before you leave, but if you can think of any specific Paris questions, you can always email me before you go!

Thanks, dln, I just might do that! We used a lot of your advice when we went to Rome last Thanksgiving!

What a nice thing to say, BLN. Please do write--one of my friends is in Paris right now. I drove her to the airport and she was so happy to have saved the $50 cab fare that she asked what I wanted from Paris. I said &quot;only your brains!&quot; So now I am getting a first-hand, detailed report of Paris, complete with tips (my friend is visiting a friend who lives full-time in Paris) and excellent observations! I will be happy to share.

A nice restaurant in the 1st is l'Argenteuil on a small street of the same name. Small, also has a few outdoor tables in nice weather, great food beautifully presented, wonderful wine list for your husband, did not appear to speak English but tolerated my French with smiles.

I was in Paris while pregnant last year. I had less trouble with cheese than with wine. A little of each and I have a very healthy 10 week old baby girl. I used my concerns - and the consequent small quantities I indulged in - to justify having only the very best. Just be smart and you'll be fine.
Off the subject but worth mentioning IMO is that you might enjoy reading &quot;Paris to the Moon&quot; while there or before you go. It is a wonderful remembrance of Adam Gopnik's own experience in France with a pregnant wife and young son. I loved it - the observations of cultural differences/similarities were astute and hilarious.
Congratulations!

Hey, Rufus--that was years ago--OLD news. We had a listeria outbreak in the US this year.

cmccullough - thanks for the advice &amp; the reading suggestion. I have had Paris to the Moon on my shelf forever and just haven't picked it up. Perhaps now is the time!

Gretchen--so are you suggesting that just because the particular stories I found in about 3 minutes of searching the web happened 2 or more years ago that listeria outbreaks are now impossible in Europe?

BLN,

I disagree with your statement that French babies turn out fine. After all, look at Jauque Chirac! SOMETHING must have happened to him as a baby!

--Marv

I was in Paris while pregnant and had a great time. I avoided the cheese entirely. However, I found that I had to learn the French phrase for &quot;I am pregnant&quot; in order to discuss the menu in my limited French. Once they understood why I was asking all kinds of questions about the menu, they were very sympathtic and kind. The best part about being pregnant in Paris is the fabulous shopping for bebe.

Don't know anything about listeriosis, but I came down with brucellosis - also called Undulant or Malta fever - after having eaten cheese made from unpasteurized milk. Pregnant or not, you don't want to contract this. Buy a baguette, butter, and cheese from a store where you can read the label and have a picnic in your room. By the way, my daughter was born in the American Hospital in Neuilly.

And one note regarding wine: recent studies are showing that even one glass of wine while pregnant can lead to developmental problems for the child.