Scotland- own base?
 

Hello, <BR>I am going to email Fodor's and suggest that they create a separate "Scotland" base. <BR>Kittie

&lt;sigh&gt; ...if only Scotland WAS sep

Kittie: Are you serious? Why?!

Tony - our day will come!

Kittie, never mind my question...I got it.

Oh wow A whole site devoted to haggis, castles, and distilleries... <BR> <BR>

"Sigh" So deeply misunderstood! <BR>

I realize that my original post was not worded very well (it was late...had a couple of beers &lt;g&gt;?) <BR>Let me clarify my post... <BR>I mean a separate listing under the Europe forum section. Ireland has it's own listing. Heck, even Albania and Andorra are listed in the Europe forum (this area). <BR>With increased questions being asked about Scotland, it just seems like the thing to ask for.

Hi Kittie, <BR> <BR>I'm just curious as to why you said "Ireland has it's own listing" - I wouldn't consider myself ultra nationalistic, Just curious to learn other people's impression of Ireland's internationally perceived status. <BR> <BR>Fi <BR> <BR>

Kittie.....we're not considered important enough....European giants like Andorra appear to merit a listing. <BR> <BR>It's times like this when people can see what I am talking about on the halloween and parliament posting.

I can't believe that no one has said this!Kittie,Scotland is still part of the United Kingdom.Southern Ireland is an independent country. <BR>Thats what Tony wants, Scotland to be an independent country. <BR>A lot of the fighting in N. Ireland is to do with people who want to be independent and those that still want to remain part of the UK. <BR>It's sad to think that we could have the same sort of fighting in Scotland as we have in Ireland. <BR>In saying that though, Scotland does have a strong identity.It should be acknowledged that Scotland is very different from England.Not many English people would eat haggis or deep fried, battered, mars bars!

You are only partially correct Catherine. Ireland is a unique situation - a lot more to do with the religious devide than just whether to remain in the UK or not.

Well Tony, there is religious divide {note Sp], in Scotland too between catholics and protestants.It could flare up if Scotland became independent. <BR>I do have sympathy for your cause.I feel very strongly about certain things also. <BR>Better to have strong feelings than to be brain dead.

i dont think there are enough questions about scotland to make its own base. In fact, it seems that most ask more about england. OHhhh...and to just comment on above about the England vs. Scotland issue...never liken a Brit to an Aussie. I found out the hard way while in London. Brits are in no way related or connected to Aussies!!!

Unlikely as England has a similar mix of all denominations. <BR> <BR>Scots Catholic versus English Catholic? <BR>Don't think so.

Dont bloody criticise me for a typo, Catherine....that is so petty. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

Tony,you started it remember? Sometimes I am petty and bloody minded. <BR>Anyway i'll say i'm sorry.I won't do it again.

And, of course, the Irish thing isn't so much about religion (although I believe it's promoted by the British as that) but about economics. If the Prods ever figured out that most of them have it lousy, and united with the Catholics, then the Brits wouldn't have much of a chance. As long as the poor remain divided, then the Question will never be solved. While the poor Prods align themselves with the rich Prods, rather than the poor Catholics, England is in control. The saddest evidence of the benign neglect by the British Government in the Six Counties is Queen's University. We stayed in the dorms a couple of summers ago - obviously not updated since the mid-60's. <BR>The question arises: what are the British doing for the Six Counties that is better than what the Republic would do if the Six Counties united with it? <BR> <BR>So the Six Counties are in a bit of a different position than Scotland; they don't want to be a free-standing country. They want to either be part of the UK or part of the Republic (remember that the Republic was also part of the UK until they rebelled in the early 1900's). Scotland, on the other hand, has the choice of being part of the UK or being a separate country - the financial and political implications are immense. For the young hotheads like Tony (or Thomas Paine, or Thomas Jefferson, or Samuel Adams), independence is worth any cost. For the greyer heads (like Sheiia or Ben Franklin), the cost of independence has to be weighed carefully. <BR>And, as I've advised Tony, throwing foodstuffs into a harbor seems to p**s off the British...oh yeah and if it comes to armed conflict DON'T wear red coats and DO hide behind trees (at least, that worked for us 225 years ago) <BR>and don't trust ANYONE named Benedict. <BR> <BR>

Geez, Elvira; and I thought Kittie had a higher degree in stirring it!!!

It seems to me the Republic is doing quite well, thank you very much. I think the "troubles" are being fomented by a bunch of hooligans, on both sides.

Elvira, <BR>You are a true gem! I always find your posts to be informative and amusing. I second you statement: dumping food-stuffs into any body of water today would be trouble.Benedict- Benedict Arnold was a great American patriot until very late. I guess he just change his mind. <BR>Fiona and Catherine, <BR>I thought that Ireland was also a part of the UK. That is my mistake and I am sorry for making it. Doesn't Ireland pay "homage" -I don't know what you call it in Ireland- to the British Monarchy/government? <BR>I have always been told that Ireland is a wonderful country with green hills and meadows and friendly people. I don't recall ever hearing anything negative about Ireland and it's people. I do recall being taught in school about the history of Ireland- how the British came in and took over and took all the natural resources. The Potato Famine and the influx of Irish immigrants to the US (of which I am a result of). <BR> <BR>It seemed to me that when many people asked in the United Kingdom base about visiting the United Kingdom, they stated something like "How about Edinburgh?, or "how about Skye?", or "what is there to see in Glasgow?" or "where would someone suggest I stay in the Highlands?". These are questions about Scotland. <BR>Sara, <BR>I am greatly discouraged that the English feel so stronly negative toward the Australians. I was taught in school that Australians are the kin to the British. <BR>Kittie

Elvira, <BR>You are a true gem! I always find your posts to be informative and amusing. I second you statement: dumping food-stuffs into any body of water today would be trouble.Benedict- Benedict Arnold was a great American patriot until very late. I guess he just change his mind. <BR>Fiona and Catherine, <BR>I thought that Ireland was also a part of the UK. That is my mistake and I am sorry for making it. Doesn't Ireland pay "homage" -I don't know what you call it in Ireland- to the British Monarchy/government? <BR>I have always been told that Ireland is a wonderful country with green hills and meadows and friendly people. I don't recall ever hearing anything negative about Ireland and it's people. I do recall being taught in school about the history of Ireland- how the British came in and took over and took all the natural resources. The Potato Famine and the influx of Irish immigrants to the US (of which I am a result of). <BR> <BR>It seemed to me that when many people asked in the United Kingdom base about visiting the United Kingdom, they stated something like "How about Edinburgh?, or "how about Skye?", or "what is there to see in Glasgow?" or "where would someone suggest I stay in the Highlands?". These are questions about Scotland. <BR>Sara, <BR>I am greatly discouraged that the English feel so stronly negative toward the Australians. I was taught in school that Australians are the kin to the British. <BR>Kittie

Just a brief introduction to modern Irish history, Kittie. <BR> <BR>This proud people found itself under the heel of the English, but didn't behave. (no Parcel of Rogues in a Nation there,eh?- Look it up) <BR> <BR>Oliver Cromwell decided to sort them out and a mechanism he chose was to encourage/force thousands of Scots Protestants to cross the water and settle; which is whay you find most of the Protestants in what Elvira refers to in true republican fashion as the Six Counties (Northern Ireland is often called Ulster. Ulster as a province had 9 counties and three of them are in the South). <BR> <BR>There follows two hundred years of mainly peaceful co-existence (Did I mention the Battle of the Boyne? or the Derry apprentices? No, What a shame)until the middle of the last century when the Irish rashly decided that they wanted their independence. <BR> <BR>Then we had a few decades of politics and skirmishing, leading up to things like the 1916 Easter Rising, followed by a political decision to divide Ireland and give what was then Eire its independence in 1921 (I think) That divided Ulster, to ensure an inbuilt Protestant majority in the North. <BR> <BR>More skirmishing till the late 1960s, when the downtrodden Papes in the north decided enough was enough and started asking for things like equal traetment under the law. The authorities found this so frightening they shot a whole bunch of ordinary peple on Bloody Sunday ( Actually, whilst a fresh inquiry into what happened is about to start, it's quite likle that the trooops, who were mostly Protestant were just frightened out of their wits, and panicked) <BR> <BR>Then we had almost 30 years of serious war between left wing control freak Catholics, calling themselves the Provisional IRA, funded mainly out of America and gangsterism in Northern Ireland; and right wing Unionist protestants, funded mainly out of America and gangsterism in Northern Ireland. <BR> <BR>Things were getting a bit better after years of appalling atrocities, until this summer when it's all got stuck again. <BR> <BR>There are no blacks and whites. The Catholic cause is probably more just than the Proddy one but they have been more bloody and horrible. I could no more shake hands with the spokesmen for Sinn Fein than fly in the air. <BR> <BR>So, who knows. maybe George Mitchell can play honest broker again. Everyone here and in Northern Ireland hopes so.

All, <BR>I feel sorry for the people of Northern Ireland having to put up with all that stuff. In my mind, it seems like someone is making alot of money selling weapons/explosives there. They may lose some money if the whole conflict ends. A reason to keep the whole thing going- maybe. <BR>A note: For years I had seen reports on the news about the troubles in Northern Ireland. They delt with specific occurrances, but not the conflict as a whole entity. Believe it or not, the whole thing didn't come together for me until I read a history of Ireland in my AAA book (American Automoble Assoc.). It surprises me that the AAA would go so much into the conflict and put down the British government like they did. <BR>Kittie

An update: <BR>I'm still going to email Fodor's and (of course &lt;g&gt;) let them decide.If the traffic warrents it, maybe we will see a separate base. <BR>Case closed. <BR>