Scotland-Looking for itinerary advice for 9 day trip
 

I’m starting to plan for 9 days in Scotland for August 2017 and I could really use some help with the itinerary. I wish we had more time, but we already have flights to London from the US, so unfortunately our dates aren’t flexible. Because August is such a busy travel time, I’d like to get as much as possible booked now.

A little about us; we are in our late 40’s, well-traveled, but this will be our first time in Scotland. We’re interested in the focusing on the Highlands and probably Skye for this visit. We’d love to see castles, standing stones, beautiful scenery, villages, do some nice hikes/walks etc. (yeah, all the usual things). We love to eat well, and enjoy drinking Scotch Whisky so we’d like to visit some distilleries. We’d like to stay in a castle for a night, but I’ve yet to find any I like that aren’t crazy expensive in August. I’m a huge fan of the Outlander book series (haven’t seen the show) so any sights related to that would be bonus.

We enjoy taking the train but are also willing to rent a car or do both. We live in the US, so my husband is a bit nervous about driving on the left, but he’s willing.
The biggest question I have is about a car rental because it could determine a good chunk of the itinerary. We’d like to end the trip in Fort William so we can catch the Caledonian sleeper car train back to London (see Day 9 below). Our options seem very limited other to rent a car from Fort William and return it there (no one way drop offs that I can find).
Should we make our way to Fort William by train and then rent a car from there for just our time on Skye?
Should we go to Skye first with the car, drop it after Skye, and then make our way back to FW later without a car?
Should we go directly from Edinburgh to FW and get the car for the whole 6 days?

This is what I have so far:
Day 1 Arrive London (LHR) at 7am, get to Edinburgh (most like catch connecting flight, but have also considered the train).
I've booked 2 nights using hotel points to mitigate the already crazy expense of hotels in Edinburgh during “festival season”. We will be there during Fringe and Tattoo and last night I bought tickets to the Tattoo so we are committed to going to Edinburgh on these days now.

Day 2- Edinburgh

Day 3, 4 and 5-Open. Here is where I need some guidance.

Day 6 and 7-Skye- somewhere

Day 8- Skye-Here I am thinking of one night at Kinloch Lodge which has a lovely looking Michelin starred restaurant. It's pricey, but if we don't find a castle, it will be our splurge. It’s on the south end of Skye and we could easily drive to Fort William next day.

Day 9 - What to do either on Skye or near Fort William prior to dropping the car off in the late afternoon on this day? I’ve heard there’s not much in Fort William itself.
Take the overnight train back to London departing from Fort William at 7:50 pm arriving in London around 8am the next day. As I said, we like trains and we really want to do this overnight back to London. There is a similar train from Inverness, but I’ve read the route from Fort William is supposed to be beautiful and hopefully there will be enough light due to the sun setting later in summer to enjoy a bit of it.

Day 10- London, hotel already booked

Day 11- Our flight leaves London at 4pm, back to US.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Should we make our way to Fort William by train and then rent a car from there for just our time on Skye?>

You could take the sleeper train London to Inverness and then take a very scenic train to Kyle of Lochlash for buses to Skye- rent a car there but not needed as buses scoot everywhere.

then leave Skye by a southern port ferry to Maillag where you can take the West Highlands dramatically scenic railway to Ft William and on.

In case you do not want to drive. For lots on British trains check www.nationalrail.co.uk; www.budgeteuropetravel.com ; www.seat61.com and www.ricksteves.com.

A car would let you of course chose your own routings and make those whisky places easier to get to.

Why are you spending time in London when all your interests are in Scotland?

If it was me I'd skip London entirely, fly to Glasgow or Edinburgh (via LHR, AMS or CDG if there are no non stop flights) from your local aiprort to Scotland. Pick up your car once you leave Edinburgh (at the airport), tour Scotland then fly home from Scotland.

No one ever sleeps on overnight trains. You wake up feeling rough, in need of a shower; best avoided. Unless there's a reason to spend time in London it seems wasteful.

No one ever sleeps on overnight trains.>

simply not true in most cases - I've taken literally hundreds of overnight trains and always folks in my shared compartment seem to sleep - lots of snorers can attest to that.

Some folks may have sleeping problems and should avoid night trains as there is always some noise from inside and outside the train.

If you go first class on Caledonian Sleepers with a private compartment those are IME very very comfy - breakfast served in bed in morning. "Tea or coffee"?

I haven't read the whole post - am dashing out. But I did get as far as taking the train from Ft William to London -- WHY?

If you want to take a sleeper you can catch one in Inverness, Glasgow, or Edinburgh . . . All of which have several national/international rental agencies where you can collect/drop your car . . . and do a one way rental.

You really (REALLY) will want a car for more than just Skye . . . But I'll be back later w/ more. (a sleeper train is just one of several good options for travel to London - it might or might not make sense for you)

Ok, let me try to answer questions...

PalenQ- I can't take the train directly to Inverness because we have reservations and now tickets for the Tattoo in Edinburgh on the two days after we arrive. However, I'm not adverse to going to going that direction after Edinburgh.

Sofarsogood- We are only spending one night in London because as I said at the top, that's where the tickets we've already purchased fly into. We found a $508 RT from the US for August (which is crazy low) and I bought them a month ago without knowing where we'd go from there. Scotland was decided on later.
As I also said, we like taking trains, so that's why we are planning on the overnight in a sleeping compartment.

janisj- from Fort William because it's one of the longest overnights and the most visually interesting. The timing will allow us to get on the train and have dinner and enjoy the trip. If we leave from Glasgow or Edinburgh, the trains depart at 11pm, and there's no fun in that. ;-) Inverness is the other option, yes. I suppose we could take the car in a big loop from Edinburgh to Inverness with Skye in the middle and do a one way drop off that way.

Back:

>>janisj- from Fort William because it's one of the longest overnights and the most visually interesting. <<

Won't be visually interesting after the first hour -- it will be dark by the time you get to Rannoch Moor.

OK -- First because of the crowds and 'hectic-ness' of Edinburgh I'd try to stay 3 nights.

Then I'd get a car at EDI as you leave the city, drive out to Skye w/ one night at Glencoe en route. Stay on Skye maybe 3 nights (no need to even stop in Ft William).

Then one night in/near Inverness to see Culloden, Clava Cairns etc. Drop car and take the sleeper from Inverness to London.

Janisj-I'd love to have three nights in Edinburgh, but I don't think that's going to be financially possible this time. Rates are crazy, and even the amount of points I'm spending is more than I'd like.

Then you can do two nights in Edinburgh, one night in the Trossachs (like Callander) or in Glencoe, 3 on Skye, and two near Inverness (there is more than enough in the area to fill a week let alone two nights)

Please note that the train from Fort William to Glasgow does not offer dining. You will also have to change trains in Glasgow from Queen Street to Glasgow Central. It's about a 10/15 walk but here is a shuttle. I doubt they have dining on the Glasgow to London route either. I believe there is often a 90 minute wait at Glasgow Central.

I feel like sofarsogood in regard to sleeper trains...they sound great but the reality is much different. Spend day 9 getting close to Edinburgh or even stay in Glasgow. Return car if you haven't done so. Morning of day 10 take the train to London.

>>Spend day 9 getting close to Edinburgh or even stay in Glasgow. Return car if you haven't done so. Morning of day 10 take the train to London.<<

Both good ideas -- OR -- stay in Inverness and fly down to London. I certainly would not jump through hoops to take that train from Ft William.

If you must take a sleeper (I personally wouldn't - but for train spotters like PQ ;) >) it would be a highlight ) I would take Glasgow or Edinburgh.

Different topic: You say you are using points in Edinburgh -- just curious which points . . . which hotel. Most of the international chain hotels are not located in central Edinburgh

Add'l different topic: Re the one night in London -- have you pre-paid, non refundable or spent points that are non-restorable??? If not, since your flight out of LHR is not until 4 PM you could very easily fly to LHR that morning from either GLA or EDI - only a 1 hour flight. That would save you an unwanted/expensive night in London. I wouldn't recommend this if your flight home was in the morning.

I had the same thought on London booking. If you can cancel free of charges just fly into LHR the morning of departure. A 4:00 pm departure allows you time to do that.

oops -- should say >>I would take the train from Glasgow or Edinburgh<<

Yes, I'm not sure I was clear on that point. Whether you take the train from Inverness or Fort William you will have to change at either Glasgow or Edinburgh. Just easier to take the train from G. or E.

I know you said you love trains but honestly I think flying both ways (LHR-EDI-LHR) is preferable given your tight time frame. It will save time-consuming trips into or from central London, and internal flights are often cheaper than the train. If you had more time to enjoy the West Highland Line or the main east coast line between Edinburgh and London (with stops in Durham and/or York) then I'd say fine, go for it. But you don't.

As I've said on other threads, I understand the appeal of Skye, but IMO focusing on Skye for that long means you're not seeing things elsewhere in the Highlands and Islands that you might find equally or more interesting, or landscapes more beautiful or villages more appealing.

In August Skye is <i>very</i> popular with people from all over Europe as well as Britain, North America... <i>Comparatively speaking,</i> other parts of the western or northern Highlands, or some of the other islands, might give you a less - what's the word? - competitive? stay.

For example (and just one of several examples) the area north of Skye - from Plockton to Applecross, Torridon and Ullapool - is an area of stunning scenery with (usually) a fraction of the volume of visitors that you'll encounter on Skye.

Or much farther south, you could easily fill your wish list of castles, standing stones, picturesque villages etc. by visiting Mull instead of Skye. Look (use the google or www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk ) at Duart Castle, Tobermory, and Iona, Kilmartin with its remarkable collection of prehistoric sites - standing stones, stone circles, burial cairns, carved grave slabs, etc., and Inveraray (picturesque village, grandiose castle, great seafood.)

Not trying to confuse the issue; you still have plenty of time to plan.

Gardyloo has made some very good points. I agree.

re Gardyloo's post: It just seems most North Americans think Skye is a 'must' and no trip to Scotland is complete w/o it (along w/ Loch Ness and the Jacobite train - not relevant to this trip). It may simply be those are places people have heard of.

Skye is wonderful, absolutely -- but the best part of Scotland? It is just one of 20 or 30 'best parts'. Is it better than St Abbs, or the Aberdeenshire coast, or Applecross, or the far SW, or Deeside, or Glencoe, or Mull . . . etc.

One thing to consider -- Skye is a looooong way to go if you end up there during hellacious rain. I traveled to Skye 3 times before I saw a darned thing . . . But oh, that third trip was glorious!!!

Not to confuse matter too awfully much - but why do you want to visit Skye? Do you have a family connection? Is there a specific thing(s) you want to see? or - is it that you assumed Skye is 'the' place to go.

If someone has 3 or 4 weeks then spending 3 or 4 days on Skye is certainly close to a must, but w/ less than a full week (after Edinburgh) - in <u>August</u> - we are just saying there are other options.

Just things to consider/think about . . .

If you must take a sleeper (I personally wouldn't - but for train spotters like PQ ;) >) it would be a highlight ) I would take Glasgow or Edinburgh>

Have you ever taken a Caledonian Sleeper train? I have a few times and found it very nice (first cl private compartment) but not everyone will find it so -always some noise from inside and outside the train - light sleepers should eschew overnight trains IMO.

but a day time train ride to Edinburgh at least one way would be nice too to see the lay of the land - the East Coast Lineis very scenic Newcastle to Edinburgh -right along the coast much of the way.

>>Have you ever taken a Caledonian Sleeper train? I have a few times<<

Yes, and more recently than you most likely.

>>the East Coast Line is very scenic Newcastle to Edinburgh -right along the coast much of the way.<<

Yes there are glimpses of the sea/coast and if you look quickly you can see Lindesfarne. But that little bit of scenery out of a long journey is nowhere near as dramatic/pretty as other places one will see once actually IN Scotland. The best sight along the route is probably Durham. Don't get me wrong -- if one is IN central London and wants to get to Edinburgh the train is the way to go. Not so much for the few bits of scenery, but because it is city centre to city centre.

But if one has no interest in London and is trying to get to LHR (or from LHR) - then the train makes next to no sense.

Yes, and more recently than you most likely.>

why are you down on night trains -what turned you off?

And many folks do not care for night trains.

<Yes, and more recently than you most likely.>

No doubt and the trains one would think would be even better today than in the 1920s!

Cheers!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/galle...-rail-journeys

The East Coast Line was named one of Britain's 10 best rail journeys by The Guardian but as janis says you will have even more scenic train rides in Scotland -with the top 3 in the Guardian being in Scotland - if you do not want to rent a car you can still see the wonders of Scotland. Again not against cars but if you do not want to drive and just laze back and look at scenery out of the train window...

Should have said the East Coast Line Newcastle to Edinburgh - about half of it - the rest is so-so but for non-jaded veteran tourists any part of Britain to me is nice - lots of pastoral scenes -sheep everywhere. And yes glimpses of the Durham Cathedral and tony school next to it are awesome - sit on the east side of the train for best views.

I'd take the night train one way and maybe get off at York for a few hours on day trains back to London.

again I have taken night trains a zillion times and the Caledonian Sleeper was perhaps the most comfy I've taken in compartments and all around vs those in Europe- I'd pay extra for a first-class private compartment.

I am curious as to why janis would not take them - and again night trains ain't for light sleepers. I took it to Inverness then the Kyle of Lochlash line (in Guardian's most scenic list) to Kyle and a bus to Skye- bused around Skye then took ferry to Maillag from Skye and West Highlands Line (usually called the most scenic rr line in Britain - to Ft William from where you can get the overnight train to London too.

Along with Edinburgh that routing by train and bus would be sweet for just 9 days.

Historytraveler- On the Caledonian Sleeper there is a dining car and no changing of trains, both from Fort William and Inverness. Look at https://www.sleeper.scot/

janisj- The hotel points are at the Sheraton in Edinburgh. I think this is fairly close to the castle, no?
For the record, I am not interested in Loch Ness or the Jacobite train. :-) But yes, Skye holds fascination, though not if it will be ridiculously crowded. But how "crowded" is it? Are we talking "Amalfi Coast in Summer" crowded or just "more than the other 11 months of the year but still manageable"? Because the thing is, we rarely can travel when it's NOT high season. My husband is a teacher and has summers off. We'll never be able to go in May for example, because that's not when he has time off. So is it better to go in August when we can, or to not go at all?

PalenQ- Thank you for the suggestions. We plan on standard class for the train because the only difference between that and first class would be that we'd have two single compartments instead of sharing 1 with two bunks. The compartments are otherwise identical and I don't think it's worth the 50% premium. The timing of the overnight train works best on the way back to London, rather than taking it TO Edinburgh. If we were to do that, we'd have to wait until 11:30pm in London after an overnight flight for that train.

Gardyloo- I may have fallen into the trap of "you MUST go to Skye", yes, though it does indeed look lovely. I am not opposed to considering Mull and I will investigate it further. But please see my question above to Janisj about how crowded it is and let me know what you think.

To all- The questions I asked did not pertain to IF I should take the overnight train. We want to. If we have a horrible time, I'll make sure to come back and let you know so you can say "I told you so". :-)

As for London, yes, the hotel is can be cancelled, but I think we'd like the day and a half there nonetheless. We spent a week there 2 years ago, but there are a couple of museums I'd like to see and we like the city. Plus, if we fly back, we don't get to take the overnight train!
And for the record, it's most likely less expensive for us to take the train back than to fly plus have another night in the hotel. Two tickets on the train (with two together rail card) are 158 pounds for both of us. I don't think we could fly for just that unless we lucked on a sale, then still add a night in a hotel somewhere.

So back to the original questions...what to do between Day 3 and Day 9? If it makes more sense to come back from Inverness because of the car thing, we can do that, though if we concentrate on the area around Glencoe and the Isle of Mull, then that might not make sense which then leaves me with the Fort William car question.

I do like the idea of Callander and if we pick up a car in Edinburgh, we can go to Stirling Castle on the way there. With that option though, we would definitely need an itinerary which ends in Inverness.

<i>Gardyloo- I may have fallen into the trap of "you MUST go to Skye", yes, though it does indeed look lovely. I am not opposed to considering Mull and I will investigate it further. But please see my question above to Janisj about how crowded it is and let me know what you think.</i>

I hesitate to use the word "crowded," because it's never crowded like, e.g., Old Faithful in Yellowstone or Yosemite Valley on a summer day. But I suspect - because of its size and relatively "unknown" status - that you'd find Mull much more "empty" feeling, with fewer cars and tour buses (which can drive you mad in the Highlands) in your way. No promises, of course.

Here's an imaginary map showing a possible route starting and ending in Fort William. Note the parts on Mull are purely speculative and really meant just to illustrate possibilities. It's not entirely "off the beaten path," but parts are certainly less beaten than Skye in August. https://goo.gl/maps/VHFu1hYaXso
Features:

- Fort William to Tobermory via the Ardnamurchan peninsula, along gorgeous Loch Sunart.

- Tobermory with its picturesque waterfront and wee distillery, Fionnphort with its access to Iona (probably the most "crowds" you'll encounter - pilgrims to the ancient abbey) and Lochbuie with its standing stones and Moy Castle, then Duart Castle on the way to the ferry back to Oban (and visible from the ferry.)

- Oban, the tourism hub of this part of the west coast, much more pleasant then Fort William.

- Kilmartin with its abundance of prehistoric sites, stones, etc. spread throughout the glen below the old church (with its collection of carved stones.)

- Inveraray, village and castle. (The castle was Shrimpy's place in Downton Abbey.) Eat local fish.

- Glen Etive, with the road branching off the main Glen Coe - Fort William road opposite the edge of the Rannoch Moor. Glen Etive is one of the most beautiful glens in Scotland - very dramatic stuff. http://gardyloo.us/20130613_71Hs.jpg

- Glen Coe and back to Fort William. If time allows, take a couple of hours to drive down the "Road to the Isles" to Glenfinnan with its iconic 1745 memorial and Harry Potter rail viaduct.

If interested I could also propose a northern loop from Fort William that could include Skye but much more.

It is 'crowded' - it is a BIG place and tbe sites/sights are spread over the entire isle. Nothing at all like the AC. In fact in some parts you won't see anyone else . . . accommodations can be hard to find.

And on a whirlwind visit, you are almost certain to focus on the places other first timers want to see, so yes, there will be 'crowds'.

Gardyloo-
I have to say, your map links are just awesome! Thank you so much for the suggestions. And that photo is beautiful as well.

Today when looking at the Google map of Mull, I noticed Glenborrodale Castle (not on Mull) and I see your route takes us by there. It looks like it could be an option for an overnight castle stay.

How many days do you see for that circular route? All 6? There is so much good stuff there. Do you see us staying on Mull for part of that time? It looks so desolate from the photos I've seen.

I would LOVE to see the other northern route you propose, thank you. There's part of me that really likes the look of Kinloch Lodge.

Well first, here's a northern loop - https://goo.gl/maps/9ZPVZCVtyk32

This starts with the "Road to the Isles" out to Mallaig and the ferry over to Skye. As with Mull (above) my routes <i>on</i> Skye are just representative of options; the actual route would be up to you. I happen to like Carbost for its views of the Cuillins, and I put Uig there because it's as close to the "Celtic Fringe" as you're going to get without traveling to the Western Isles; I believe the majority of the people there still speak Gaelic.

Anyway, the route then returns to the mainland (although remember you're still on a big island) and does a quick trip inland to Dornie for its views of famous Eilean Donan castle, then back to picturesque Plockton and Loch Carron. It then threads north through spectacular scenery and sea lochs to Torridon and on to Ullapool, then back across to Inverness and down the Great Glen back to Fort William. Google these places or use Undiscovered Scotland to see what points of interest there are close by; as with the southern loop you're still going to have to do a fair amount of editing and won't have time to see everything.

For the southern loop above, Here's a possible timetable:

1 (AM train) Edinburgh - Fort William (get car) - Glenborrodale (but see below.)
2 Glenborrowdale - Mull
3 Day on Mull
4 Day on Mull, PM ferry to Oban, overnight Oban
5 Oban - Kilmartin - Inveraray
6 Inveraray - Glen Etive - Glen Coe - Ft. William

For the northern loop, something like this:

1 Edinburgh - Fort William - Skye
2 Day on Skye
3 Day on Skye
4 Skye - Dornie - Plockton - Torridon
5 Torridon - Ullapool - Inverness
6 Inverness - Fort William

Fair warning: I tend to be rather aggressive in my day tripping in the Highlands, although I don't think any of these days is overly grueling on the driving front.

A word on Glenborrodale Castle - haven't stayed there and it looks very nice, but of course it's not a "real" castle; it was built in the 20th Century as a purpose-built guest house. You might want to look at recently-opened Mingary Castle - http://www.mingarycastle.com/index.html - as a possible alternative. It's very close to the ferry to Tobermory, and is a 13th century structure, not something built in the 19th or 20th Century in the "Scots baronial" style. Good reviews for the most part on TripAdvisor. I haven't looked for castle-hotels for the northern loop alternative; they're really not my style.

Meant to add, you could also do the northern loop starting and ending in Inverness, which might make the car less expensive and give you more time on the ground. https://goo.gl/maps/YZ52Br6SwPu

If we were to do that, we'd have to wait until 11:30pm in London after an overnight flight for that train.>

why not fly to Edinburgh from Heathrow upon arrival?

A long train trip after an all-night flight could not be great either - especially since you have to get over to King's Cross in London to get the train.

Better to fly or stay the night in London and enjoy more the longish train trip - (first class is a lot lot nicer on those trains than 2nd class- check discounted tickets in first class too- sometimes not much more. Free food and drinks the whole way.

Gardyloo- Thank you! I had not noticed that Glenborrodale was "new". Hmmm. Mingary looks nice.

I like the northern loop too and I'm now leaning toward starting/ending in Inverness. I think that might be easier all around. There are more train choices to get to Inverness than there are for FW. I'm sure the car rental options are better as well.

So if we start in Inverness, would you recommend a night there before picking up a car?

PalenQ-Yes, we're planning on flying to EDI. That's because the overnight train at the start of the trip does not make sense (given the timing). Plus, I think it just would be easier to get off the plane at LHR and get on another, rather than go into London to catch a train. With what we already have booked in Edinburgh, there's no time for an overnight in London at the start.

I know you are looking forward to staying at Kinloch Lodge on Skye, and it is very nice but will offer a suggestion for the other itinerary which has you with an overnight in Oban. I have stayed at the Manor House in Oban a number of times, and it's one of my favorites. The rooms with a sea view are worth the price.The restaurant is good although Kinloch is the better of the two. Still an excellent place. I believe the website is www.manorhouseoban.com

<i>I like the northern loop too and I'm now leaning toward starting/ending in Inverness. I think that might be easier all around. There are more train choices to get to Inverness than there are for FW. I'm sure the car rental options are better as well.</i>

Like many people, I don't find Inverness particularly attractive, although there are some interesting places nearby (Culloden et al.) So if you took the train to and from Inverness, I'd probably head out west on arrival.

Frankly with your limited time and wish list, I'd skip the train ride TO Inverness (which IMO is fairly boring) and arrange a one-way car hire from Edinburgh to Inverness, allowing for the train south. One-way rentals usually don't involve the high one-way premiums they do in other countries, and having the car would expand your alternatives without much of a time penalty at all. (One way rentals to/from Fort William are tricky because there aren't many national/global car agencies in Fort William; not the case with Inverness.)

Route - https://goo.gl/maps/WRy9b9Ltaps

1 Edinburgh - Glen Etive - Glen Coe
2 Glen Coe - Dornie - PM on Skye
3 Day on Skye
4 Day on Skye - Plockton
5 Plockton - Torridon - Ullapool
6 Ullapool - Inverness, train south

Not a lot to do Inverness to be honest but staying one night would make for a more relaxing trip.

Not quite a castle but I had a decent stay here once:

http://bunchrewhousehotel.com/


Right on the Firth of Forth.

Wow...would love to know how you found that great airfare! I have been stalking fares since this past summer for late May!

A low air fare could even be as cheap or cheaper than the train.

HistoryTraveler- Thanks, I'll check it out.

Gardyloo-you've given me even more to condsider, thank you!

jtpj777-Bunchrew House looks lovely but it is a bit out of my budget in August.

kraines- I got an alert from it, I think from The Points Guy. There was a TON of availability, all the way through Sept 2017, but the summer dates disappeared within 2 days. There are still a lot of cheap fares out there to Europe, through May.

If we were to do that, we'd have to wait until 11:30pm in London after an overnight flight for that train.>

Moot point but for others - when I've taken that those trains you could board them in Euston (?)Station much earlier than departure time- not guaranteed though. Flying that leg is of course much nicer.