Yes, "book marking" means I find the discussion useful for my owm plans. There Are valuable contributions here I want to be able to incorporate into my own plans. Bookmarking makes it easy to find them again, and spares the contributors from answering the same question again.

I agree that some of us have lost the plot!

I will defer to janisj, sofarsogood and others who have more experience in Scotland compared to my 3 trips. However, I will say that our trip that included the Trossachs, Skye and Loch Ness/Culloden is the family favorite of our (extensive) travelling in 2+ years here in the UK. From that trip, I'd pick the Trossachs & Skye if I had to chose (with a visit to Urquhart Castle on the way back from Skye).

Since you want to take on Edinburgh, then Trossachs/Skye/Edinburgh makes for a nice 10-11 day holiday.

This was based on the following priorities:

1) historical events/places (Stirling Castle, Bannockburn, Wallace Monument, Urquhart Castle, Culloden, etc.)
2) great scenery with good walk options (Ben A'An, Glencoe Visitors Centre, Skye, etc.)

I think your interests are similar but perhaps not. It's your trip (not mine) so I'm just trying to explain our rationale to see if that helps.

It appears you have an additional requirement of staying in really nice (5-star-ish) places. I can't fully relate to that. We stay in nice places but not luxurious -- I look for a good value that meets my requirements.

I would suggest picking where you want to go and finding the nicest place to stay rather than steering the trip around the nicest places to stay.

Take a step back. What are your hard requirements? Must sees? I'm sure a good trip will come together even if it isn't everything.

Okay - thanks Janis. Sofar, here are some big picture facts that may help (26 nights total):

- 4 or 5 nights London to start (minimum 4 nights are set)
- 6 nights Wiltshire (set - we will not shorten our stay here)
- fly to Scotland for a 10-night trip, 11 nights if we drop a night off first bit in London
- finish in Edinburgh, return to England via Hadrian's wall, sightsee on route to the Lakes
- 2 nights Lake District then 3 back in London (the Lakes are set at 2 nights, London min. 3)

25 days total - if we give up a day in London, we would have 14 days England, 10 Scotland. 14 Scotland and 10 England would have been better for this trip based on what we have learned.

Accommodations arranged for almost all areas - need to finalize lodging for the "middle of the bit in Scotland," and book Highlands Castle for one night if we are staying there. There is some flex in the dates, but moving from 10 nights Scotland to 11 means going with 4 nights in London to start (altogether we would still have 7 nights London in total this trip).

By "middle of the bit in Scotland" - I am referring to the "Skye" or "Perthshire" self-catering stay between the Highlands and Edinburgh. Taking a shorter stay in Skye (e.g. 2 or 3 nights) would land us in an Inn or hotel, rather than self-catering (we need to break up the hotels...)

Ideally, we would like to accomplish the following while in Scotland:

- Highlands archery, scenery/falls, a hike (plus a full day dedicated to the Jacobite - already set)
- Skye for scenery, biking, hiking, Portree, Dunvegan, Museum/Island Life, market, boat tour
- Loch Ness and castle (visit while driving), Eilean Donan - visit en route
- Loch Lomond (stop by en route), the A82 plus road to the isles drive (if going to Skye)
- Edinburgh castle, Cam. Obsura, Arthur's seat, Museum(s), a few shops, maybe Holyrood etc.
- Need to work in Stirling Castle, Wallace Monument, also Falkirk Wheel, Bo'ness Motor Museum
- Staying in a castle somehow would be nice - we have never done this
- Re-entering England via Hadrian's Wall would be cool - Housesteads, Vindolanda, etc.

We need to act now for other arrangements, and book our middle accommodations, as well as transport to Scotland right away - so this is why we are turning to the forum. If you still have questions, please let me know - the questions we are trying to address are posted above.

Indy_Dad - you are an awesome traveller - and the Trossachs look wonderful (nice scenery).

We want to visit the Highlands for sure - we like this kind of scenery - we are committed to our lodgings there though we could go with three nights instead of 4 from what we hear.

Photos of the Trossachs look super to but we did not plan any accommodations there : (

Skye gets rave reviews - doubtful it would disappoint (aside from Edinburgh it seems to have the most "to-do" items on our list of things to see - our challenge here is the drive to Edinburgh, especially if we stay on the North of the island (I think we would like the scenery there).

Another challenge is how to get at Loch Ness, Wallace Monument, Stirling Castle, Falkirk, and the Bo'Ness motor museum (we are keen on cars) without feeling rushed.

We could never see these if we started in Glasgow, saw the Highlands, then Skye, and drove to Edinburgh (Edinburgh drive from Skye is doable in a day, but not with much sightseeing).

We might be able to see these sites coming from Glasgow, if we went Glasgow to Glencoe, up through Loch Ness and over to Kyle L., to Skye, then back down to Inverlochy Castle (one night). This would give us a head start the next day, and it might allow us to reach these sites en route to Edinburgh, but it would also limit time in Edinburgh to 2 nights owing to availability.

We thought we might be able to see sites like Stirling by skipping Skye and basing ourselves in the Perthshire hills (could do Loch Ness en route) - please see options above, I think Gardyloo was suggesting starting in Edinburgh and working our way to the Highlands from there so we could see Stirling Castle etc. at the start of our trip - at least I think that's what Gardy meant).

I'm sorry - but you have gotten too far off in the weeds for me. I simply can't follow all your permutations/options/deliberations.

You have 10 nights in Scotland. easy peasy.

• Fly to Glasgow, collect car (no jet lag so no problem). Drive up the west side of Loch Lomond and to Glen Coe. Stay two nights.

• Drive to Skye - stay three nights.

• Drive to Dunkeld (much nicer/prettier than Pitlochry). Enroute via Ft Augustus take a short detour up the west side of Loch Ness to see Urquhart Castle. stay one night in Dunkeld.

• From Dunkeld drive to Stirling area - visit Stirling Castle/Doune Castle and Inchmahome Priory. Stay one night. (Or you could skip Dunkeld and drive all the way to near Stirling and stay two nights)

• Visit Auto museum/Falkirk Wheel, then to EDI to drop car. Taxi to the Calledonian. Stay 3 nights.

43 responses and as far as I can see you are still where you were when you started.

Look, you are trying to plan something down to the hour. You must be or you wouldn't be including Stirling Castle, the Wallace Monument, the Selkirk Wheel and the Motor Museum all in a lump.

You have 10 days. You've said 4 in Glencoe is fixed. That's the first mistake. You are now trying to throw a castle night in, that's another mistake. You can't decide whether to visit Skye or Perthshire, why, because you can't decide which is better for you. You list some places in Edinburgh to visit. You throw in Pitlochry and Eilian Donan.

Several posters have now said they are 'confused', clearly you are even more confused. You are letting the planning get so complicated you are now suffering from 'paralysis by analysis.'

You refer to a 'once in a lifetime trip' and that to me indicates the classic mistake of thinking you have to see and do everything in this trip. YOU CAN'T do it all.

The common phrase is 'to see/do as much as possible'. Most people confuse the word 'much' with the word 'many'. They are not synonymous. The way to see/do as much as possible is actually to spend time IN places, not in BETWEEN places.

A visit to Selkirk and the Wallace Monument is basically a day trip on its own. The Falkirk Wheel and Motor Museum another day trip. Or is an hour at each your idea of 'been there, done that'?

To walk down the Royal Mile from Edinburgh Castle to Holyrood Palace is a day or perhaps even two depending on your interests. The Writers Museum in Mary Stairs Close you mention is good for an hour. The Camera Obscura is skippable for anyone other than a real Obscura fanatic. Edinburgh Castle itself is a couple of hours unless you plan to speed walk around it. If you visited the People's Museum (arguably the best on the Mile) you can spend at least another hour. If you visited the Children's Museum, yet another hour. Then there is Gladstone House, another hour. The list goes on and on. There are probably 20 places to visit on the Royal Mile at least. Then, what about the National Museum, the National Gallery, The Gallery of Modern Art and the Portrait Gallery? No time for them. Arthur's Seat is a half day. Edinburgh has so much you couldn't see it all in a week.

You are simply trying to cover too much in too little time and looking over and over again at a way to incorporate as much as possible in a short time. Each time you try, you continue to include too much.

Make a decision. Pick an itinerary. There is no BEST in any of your now dozens of possibilities you have floated. The itinerary janisj has just given you is as good as any including the 2 nights in Glencoe. I love Glencoe and love hiking but with only 10 days I would not give it 4 of them.

Improviser, your comments about 4 nights Glencoe are valid - Janis, I appreciate your itinerary work - no idea where Dunkfield is but will find out after posting and see what's available there.

Improviser, I don't think we are still at where we started, as we have completely dropped a long stay in Loch Ness, given up a stay on the Isle of Mull, and committed only to driving by Loch N.

Should also be noted that most of our questions have not been answered directly, though lots of good tips and ideas presented, even on mosquito spray, and overseas flights - awesome.

Should also be noted that only Janis and Gardyloo replied with actual itinerary suggestions, which was great - I have spent time working with Gardyloo's and will be checking out Janis's idea shortly. This is appreciated, especially as the original post asked for itinerary help.

Improviser - you asked for more detail, and you asked for information on our interests. In response, we posted both. Regarding museums, the kids could make it through one, given a couple of days time - they are not huge museum fans and will not last as long as I might, as an adult. Also, we really have to go by availability now - I know where the availability is for our dates - the options I have outlined are all availability-based.

As for Glencoe - two nights would be okay - but we are spending one day on the Jacobite trip. If we stay only two nights, we will not be able to do anything other than the Jacobite. So we will stay at 3 nights - this is a compromise. We did note that we could do three or four there.

As for the castle stay, we are already so long in England that I thought I could add an extra night (to make 11) at the beginning of the Scotland leg - the castle happens to be one of only two places anywhere on the route where we have found availability for that particularly night. The other is Pitolchry's Knockderry House). The castle looks beautiful - we don't have castles at home, so I thought the night there would bring us closer to the sights, while giving us more time, and the chance to stay in something we could never possibly imagine.

Not many comments about Garyloo's EDIN/EDIN plan - is there a way of working with Gardyloo's trip that works? If not, then yes, I guess we had better stick to Glasgow.

I would never choose Glasgow over Edinburgh for a tourist going to Scotland. Not that Glasgow doesn't have things of interest to a tourist but Edinburgh simply has a lot more in a very small (walkable) area. More bang for your buck so to speak.

The route Gardyloo laid out is as good as any other route. No route will take in everything. Again, there is no best.

Regarding castles, Knockderry is near Loch Lomond, no where near Pitlochry. There is a large number of hotels that are 'castle' like rather than actual castles. I would say that while it would take some digging with Google to find some of them, there should be plenty along any route you choose to take. Most are country houses rather than actual castles. Neither Knockderry or Inverlochy are actually a castle. I'd say if you want to sleep in a castle then go for the real thing. To find those needs more digging.

Dornoch Castle for example withstood a seige. That's a good indicator of the real thing. The other is age. Anything from the 18th century on is probably not a castle but a country estate house. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornoch_Castle

Barcaldine is the real deal as well.
http://www.barcaldinecastle.co.uk/about/

Look for the word 'tower' in a description. That often signifies it was built for defense.

Check this site for Rosslyn Castle; Castle of Park; Saddell Castle as examples. http://www.landmarktrust.org.uk/Sear...tion/scotland/

Another source is the Vivat Trust. They have several towers including this one in Edinburgh: http://www.vivat-trust.org/properties.php?pid=83
I've also rented the Tower of Hallbar which is one of their properties.

But fitting any of these into an existing plan may be difficult. On one visit to Scotland I went with the intent of doing a 'Castle tour'. That was the objective of the trip. Visit castles with no accomodation offered and stay in other castles along the way. I stayed in a 'castle' (included some country houses rather than real castles) every night for 2 weeks. It's not hard to do at all but you can't fit the castle to the plan, you have to fit the plan around the castle I'd say.

Good point again and thanks for your message Improviser. You are right about Knockderry - somehow I thought it was closer to Stirling (so that we could see several sights after picking up a car at Edinburgh airport as per Gardyloo's plan, and then overnight before hitting Glencoe.

Also a good point about planning the trip and fitting in a castle (if you can) later. This is where Inverlochy would work well (though it was built in the 1800's, and is therefore not truly a castle). We have the one "flex" night we can use to extend the stay in Scotland by a day.

This day only comes at the beginning of the time in Scotland - Inverlochy just happens to have that night available, and if they still do, it would permit us to make the Scotland half of the trip 10 days (not 9). Our problem is being able to get there - it makes more sense to begin driving from Glasgow's airport, but we are not planning any sightseeing around Glasgow.

I thought Gardyloo's plan would give us the chance to at least see Stirling Castle and the Wallace monument after leaving Edinburgh airport. But it is a long drive:

- 40 minutes to Stirling from airport
- 30 minutes - time at Falkirk on route (save Bo'Ness for return trip)
- 2 hours Stirling Castle
- 1 hour Wallace monument
- drive along Loch Lomond
- 2 1/2 Loch Lomond to Stirling

My estimate is that if we can have our car and be out of Edinburgh Airport by 10:30 am, we can arrive at Inverlochy at around 6 pm. Do these estimates sound fair?

Coming from Glasgow, we would likely only stop at Loch Lomond.

Thank you for the castle suggestions - I thought Dornoch was off our route but I will double check and I will look up the other castle names as well.

We were looking also at Langley castle (a real castle from what we understand) but staying there would mean robbing Scotland (Edinburgh) of a night.

The benefit of staying at Langley would be staying longer along Hadrian's Wall (1 night). We last heard that we could see Hadrian's wall while driving from Edinburgh to Keswick without overnighting, but we would like to stop and take at least a couple of hours to walk around and enjoy the views, plus it would be nice to stop at the Callandish Standing Stones. We would leave Edinburgh early, but we need to be in Keswick in time to prepare for dinner.

I'm going to leave you to your planning - every post gets more and more confusing.

>>- 40 minutes to Stirling from airport
- 30 minutes - time at Falkirk on route (save Bo'Ness for return trip)
- 2 hours Stirling Castle
- 1 hour Wallace monument
- drive along Loch Lomond
- 2 1/2 Loch Lomond to Stirling<<

What is this? Why driving around in circles? And 30 minutes at the Falkirk Wheel is totally inadequate. If you take the boat excursion you need to allocate at least 90 minutes - and they are timed so you may not get on the boat immediately. And if you don't take the boat - it really is just a quick photo stop and no need to do anything but get out of the car take a couple of pictures and dash off. 2 hours is bare minimum at Stirling Castle. But then to drive to the Wallace Monument then back across to Loch Lomond and back to Stirling just doesn't make sense.

I have stayed away from this thread because frankly it's a bit hard to follow, especially for those of us who are - er - a bit "seasoned." (English = old.)

Can I make a suggestion that might help you organize yourselves a little at the get-go? Fly into <i>either</i> Edinburgh or Glasgow (my preference is Edinburgh) and book into a hotel for two nights. There are several affordable hotels close to both.

Rather than breaking camp and trying to squeeze in the Stirling etc. sights en route to/from the Highlands, just spend the first full day visiting them, then return to the hotel that night. Stirling is 35-40 minutes by motorway from either airport, and you can easily construct a loop that encompasses all the places on your list, even more (for example the marvelous architectural heritage village of Culross on the north shore of the Forth.)

Then when it's time to rocket off to the Highlands, you'll (a) be better rested, and (b) be able to take a more direct and scenic route than one complicated by zigzagging around the countryside. One thing of note is that airport hotels are far more car-friendly than those in cities or even villages, so that too might be a consideration for the first couple of nights.

With as much on your plate as you've planned, you need to pace yourselves, and of course be willing to alter things based on conditions. What if the weather is so abysmal that you don't want to get out of the car at some location? Have a backup plan.

Anyway, my counsel is to take it easy. It's not going anywhere.

this now getting beyond ridiculous. I can see it now, you arrive at your pre-booked accomodation in Glen Coe to find yourself in the midst of a typically Scottish weather phenomenon called rain. What's more it will continue for days. Meanwhile to the east on the Fife coast or to the northwest up on Skye, the sun is shining brightly. But your stuck with what you have.

All this trying to plan things down to an hour here and two hours there is ridiculous.

Make a list of places that look like they will be of interest to you. Fly to Edinburgh or Glasgow and then WING IT from there. As the weather dictates, visit as many of them as you can comfortably get to.

Go to A and leave when you are ready to leave, not before. Whether you get to everywhere on your list or not (higly unlikely anyway unless as noted, all you do is drive up, snap a picture and drive away) is irrelevant. What should matter is whether you enjoy what you do on each day you have. Then you fly home leaving some things for next time.

It's supposed to be a vacation, not a route march. What do you think the word 'vacation' means? It partly means you leave scheduling life by the clock at home. You leave having a list of tasks to accomplish at home.

Again I say, paralysis by analysis.

This is all good improviser but travelling with kids means accommodations have to be in place - we cannot move along with the weather choosing to stay or go as we please as we cannot check out early from one lodging (and have to pay 100% room charges) when the weather is not cooperating and then arrive somewhere else (early) where the sun might be shining only to find there's no room at the Inn (which will definitely be the case as shown by availability).

We are not from Scotland - I have seen far more "ridiculous" questions than ours posted on Fodors, and as we have never been there, and are certainly not from there, all we can do is try and work and read, and understand how things work - what may seem ridiculous to you, is just us trying to learn about the place we are visiting, and that is purportedly the forum's intention.

We work, we have kids, we are not retired - we have timelines to follow, we need to ensure we have accommodations in place - we cannot throw our money to the "wind" when we find the weather is not complying. And if we did not apply some analysis, we would be flying through everything, seeing nothing, on a breakneck itinerary pulled together from "been there, done that" travel book. Its disappointing that we have faulted for trying on this forum.

Our previous reply (prior to Improvisor's message) did not post. We will repost it here.

Please note note that the intention was not to go from Edinburgh airport to Wallace, then to L. Lomond, and then back to Stirling, before driving to Glencoe.

The intention was to go Edinburgh airport - Wallace M., then Stirling. Then proceed to Loch Lomond, and head up the A82 to Glencoe/Fort William area from there.

From Glencoe, we would go to Skye, then return to the mainland via Loch Ness, then Edinburgh.

If we skipped Skye, we would see only Falkirk and L. Lomond while on route to Glencoe. We would then go from Glencoe to the the Perthshire hills. From a base in the Perthshire Hills, we would see Stirling, W. Monument and other sites not yet covered.

For Falkirk - our reading suggested this was a drive by more than anything. We had no information of boats or anything more to see there - now we know.

Gardyloo offered an alternative and this would work great but unfortunately we have not found the accommodation on the right night to do this. What we have found is one night at Inverlochy (which may be gone now...). Though this would not give us the extra time we need near Stirling, it would enable us to attend an event we were hoping to get to in the Highlands nearby, and participate in some other activities we were trying to incorporate.

We have tried to make two routes similar to Gardyloo's - one for hitting Skye in the middle of the trip, the other for filling the middle with the Perthshire Hills instead. Included are overnight stops as well as sights to see - Gardyloo, thank you for teaching us to use this app:

http://goo.gl/maps/eMoSC

http://goo.gl/maps/5hYD8

>>The intention was to go Edinburgh airport - Wallace M., then Stirling. Then proceed to Loch Lomond, and head up the A82 to Glencoe/Fort William area from there<<

But that is not what you posted - no surprise that we are mostly giving up. Your posts are sort of stream of consciousness and are VERY difficult to follow.

I gave you a reasonable itinerary. Gardyloo did as well. You need to focus - and NOT throw everything plus the kitchen sink into every post. It is VERY hard to hit a moving target. I don't agree w/ improviser (duh). 'Winging it ' w/ kids is difficult. I would pre-book every accommodation. However, DDay was easier to organize than this trek. Like agonizing about the difference between Tattoo seats that are about 50 feet from each other. You are getting buried in the details.

Look at a map, decide a route, book places (NOW since things are filling up), you are done. No matter WHERE you go you won't be able to so/see everything.

This is meant as tough love - you are trying to do too much and are offering TOO MANY options and we can't keep track . . .

Maybe put yourself on a limited word count and force yourself into being succinct and to the point???

Listen to janis. She knows whereof she speaks! She is a great resource!

No problem - tough loves is okay.

Janis definitely knows her stuff - I surmise that her and Improviser are secretly best friends ; )

Did anyone look at the two maps (one is similar to Gardyloo's).

"it would enable us to attend an event we were hoping to get to in the Highlands nearby, and participate in some other activities we were trying to incorporate."

Yet more, 'let's throw this in to the mix'.

I don't agree kids make it necessary to pre-book. But whether you do or not doesn't matter to me. If you are uncomfortable with winging it, fine. But MAKE UP YOUR MIND.

I do agree with janisj about that. As I have said, you can't do it all so it really doesn't matter what you do or don't do unless you have some very strong preferences.

Frankly, for a first time visitor I wouldn't even suggest the Falkirk Wheel or Stirling or the Wallace Monument. They're just not that big a deal. I'd suggest 2 days spent on the Royal Mile in Edinburgh alone. A week in the highlands or on Skye. Times up. But where to go is up to you, you just have to PICK SOME and end the planning.

I should not that after leaving Scotland at age 7, I visited a dozen or so times for a week or two at at time and then eventually returned to live in Scotland for 6.5 years.

I still haven't seen everything of interest in Scotland. So how are you going to even manage the 'highlights' in 10 days?

Perhaps changing your thinking from visiting 'Scotland' would help. What if you think of visiting Edinburgh and Skye. That's it, two places, your choice.

Improviser - you know Scotland so well - it is good to receive your reply.

Our reading here indicated that Stirling Castle was indeed a huge deal and one of the top five things to see in the country - the Falkirk Wheel is always noted as well. However, the guide books list Loch Ness up there in the ranks, despite our reading here on the forum that it is not the end-all either. All along, we were thinking we absolutely MUST get to these sites.

Your idea is a good one - something I considered doing early on - e.g. just visiting two spots (only Edinburgh, and only, e.g. Glencoe). My thinking originally was that sights like Falkirk and Stirling could be seen while on base in the city - I tried to find a self-catering option in the city (much easier for us this way for longer stays) but this did not work out.

Which brings me to the problem with planning in general - it is not usually like this, and I have not tended to post to forums, but this time around, the accommodations have been a problem. Having to design a trip around what's available (despite starting early on with planning) makes it tougher to work through things - especially when you are a newby.

The reason why we moved to three (rather than two) places to stay on the itinerary was Skye. Wherever we looked, this was the favoured stop for everyone who had been to Scotland. Travellers consistently have said that it is the one place the enjoyed most of all.

The reason why we looked at a one-night castle stay at the beginning of the trip was so we could add another night in Scotland - the availability seemed to be there, so...

Can you imagine the three and four-day itineraries to Scotland? Some travellers simply take day trips to Skye, especially on the tours.

It is very difficult if not impossible for me to look at Scotland from the perspective of a first time visitor.

I could list a 100 places worth visiting in my opinion and that still wouldn't be an exhaustive list. What I do know is no one can visit everywhere, no matter how much time they have. I also know there is no BEST places and I have no time for 'must sees'. There is no such thing as a must see unless YOU make it a must see. Each person has individual interests and that is what makes a place a must see obviously.

I may consider Wigtown a 'must see' while you probably have never heard of it. Wigtown is an IOB (International Organization of Book Towns). For a bibliophile, it is a must see. For an architecture buff, the Willow Tea Rooms in Glasgow would be a must see as they were designed by Charles Rennie Mackintosh. We all have our own interests.

The problem is that the traveller often only has a vague idea based on comments by others, guidebooks, etc. as to why they want to go to a place. They often have a romantic vision of a place that initiates the original decision and then go on to looking for places to see when they get there. This is what I believe leads to, "Our reading here indicated that Stirling Castle was indeed a huge deal and one of the top five things to see in the country - the Falkirk Wheel is always noted as well. However, the guide books list Loch Ness up there in the ranks, despite our reading here on the forum that it is not the end-all either. All along, we were thinking we absolutely MUST get to these sites." A list of places you probably had no idea about before now. A list of 'must sees' that someone ELSE decided are 'must sees'.

If you have a definite interest in the Glencoe Massacre (your a MacDonald for example), then Glencoe becomes a must see for you. If you have an interest in canals and locks then the Falkirk Wheel becomes a must see for you. Otherwise it is just 1 of 1000 other tourist attractions.

Most tourists actually have NO 'must sees' when they visit a place. They come up with a list based on where everyone else says, 'Oh you simply must see X, we loved it'. If you actually have no real 'must sees' then which of the 1000 possible things to see/do that you manage to see/do is irrelevant. Any 10 are as good as any other 10.

I fear I'm going to regret this diversion back to specifics, but where are you now for committed overnight locations, and of what durations? Let's break the back of this puzzle and move on.

OMG - you and improvisor have a wonderful dialog. The loooooong posts are getting very confusing/in the weeds.

Improvisor: Why ON EARTH bring up Charles Rennie Mackintosh in a thread already too convoluted by half???

(And I am a Mackintosh aficionado)

We 1st planned to come in through Glasgow - the flights arrive mid am - there was also the idea to fly into Edinburgh instead and see some sites on the way up to the Highlands. We plan to drive the A82 "Skyfall" drive into the Highlands either way - this is a must for us.

We are firm on reservations at Glencoe House for 3 or 4 nights at the beginning and will not stay for less as one day is spent on the Jacobite (plus the house is nice).

We are firm on finishing in Edinburgh - we can take 2 to 4 nights (but 2 seems short, e.g. 1 day).

We have time in between the stay in and around Glencoe and time in Edinburgh - we can:

1) take time to travel to North Skye - self-catering stay
2) travel to Perthshire and see sights like Stirling, Wallace etc. from there - self-catering
3) take less time in Scotland and focus on the Glencoe House area and Edinburgh only

We value the opportunity for a self-catering stay as it works well with kids, gives us a break from hotels, and allows us to experience things a little "less" like tourists (if this is possible). So this makes a self-catering break in Scotland (in Skye or Perthshire) appealing.

We can move from 9 days to 10 if we overnight at the start in the Inverlochy Castle, before going to Glencoe. We now see an opening at Cameron House (L. Lomond) too but we were thinking if we were already up that far, why not take a couple of hours more to get to the castle.

If we do not start at Inverlochy, we start at Glencoe and have 9 days/10 nights.

Improvisor, we can most likely only get to Scotland once so indeed our situation is different. I hope you can appreciate why travellers like us must turn to guide books and the like for information on places we have never been, and may never see again.

Janisj, I gave an example of a must see for someone. If examples are too confusing for you, skip them.

TravelG, Cameron House is simply a hotel with older architecture. Over-priced for what it is in my opinion and yes I've stayed there. My wife called it 'stuffy'. ie. the staff had pretensions of grandeur.

You would do better to look at the hostel on the opposite side of the road. It even has a ghost.
http://www.google.ca/search?site=&so...hp.Jd0R9xZHK5o
They have family rooms I believe.

It appears your plans are still somewhat in flux, so I’ll now propose a simple itinerary that will give you a variety of landscapes and experiences, then I will retire from this thread. This itinerary departs slightly from your current options, for which I have my reasons.

Three or four nights in Glencoe.
Two or three nights in... wait.... Fife.
Four nights in Edinburgh.

Glencoe days - train, hike, drive around, drive around.

Fife days - St Andrews and East Neuk villages, Falkland, Optional Stirling.

Edinburgh days - Edinburgh (2), Queensferry, East Lothian villages, optinal Stirling.

Why:

Glencoe is very close to Fort William and not far from the Great Glen. If you want to see Loch Ness it's barely an hour from Glencoe. Splitting your time between Glencoe and some “castle-like” hotel in the west, be it in Fort William or Loch Lomond, is, in my view, overdoing it, never mind that staying in the Inverlochy Castle Hotel is about as much a castle lodging experience as eating a slider at White Castle is a dining one. Except <i>a lot</i> more expensive.

The Highland scenery available in day trips from Glencoe is among the best there is. While there are many, many beautiful areas in the Highlands, for the first time visitor the differences from one area to another are likely to be quite subtle. I hate the expression "good enough," but honestly, a drive up Glen Etive (a few miles from Glencoe village) will give you a sense of wildness and a feel of remoteness that you'd probably find indistinguishable from what you’d experience in less accessible places. http://flic.kr/p/eLouXa

Spend 4 days in the western Highlands and call it good.

Then spend a two or three days in Fife. Fife is a largely rural county directly across the Firth of Forth from Edinburgh.

Why there? Because from a reasonably well-situated base you can visit a variety of places that will broaden your understanding for the great diversity Scotland offers in a small territory. St. Andrews is more than just a golf town; it has a splendid ruined cathedral, an ancient university, and a beach where you can run just like the lads in <i>Chariots of Fire.</i> Not far are the “East Neuk” fishing villages of Crail, Anstruther, Pittenweem and St. Monans (and others). These are historic and incredibly picturesque little towns, easily visited in a day. Or, visit the lovely little village of Falkland and Falkland Palace, home of the Stuart royals including Mary Queen of Scots. http://www.nts.org.uk/Property/Falkland-Palace-Garden/

Fife would stand in sharp contrast to the Western Highlands; no less scenic but different, and historically and culturally every bit as important.

Then head into Edinburgh for a couple of days of sightseeing. Include the villages of South Queensferry, Cramond and/or Swanston (not to mention the Dean Village) all within the Edinburgh urban area. If you still want to see more countryside, then a day trip to Stirling is super easy (40 min.) or head east out along the Firth of Forth to some of the villages along the south side of the Firth – Dunbar, St. Abbs – also historic and picturesque. Visit the ruins of Tantallon Castle, perched on the cliff looking out to Bass Rock and its lighthouse. This is an easy day’s (or afternoon’s) drive from Edinburgh.

Once more, incredibly important historically, scenic, and yet again a different face of Scotland.

A final thought – as you leave to the south, route yourselves via the Holy Isle (Lindisfarne) down the Northumbrian coast a little ways from Berwick on Tweed. Talk about historic importance… Then the little village of Bamburgh with its castle looming over the village is another easy “drive by” scenic highlight. (Old photo - http://gardyloo.us/bamburghcastle2.jpg ) Finally, Alnwick (“Annick”) Castle is spectacular and of course recently famous for its stand-in role as Hogwarts. If you’re heading to Hadrian’s Wall on your way back south, these sights are not terribly far out of your way.

>>Janisj, I gave an example of a must see for someone. If examples are too confusing for you, skip them.<<

Jeeze louise improvisor. Poor travelGeek can't focus as it is, so introducing CRM and Wigtown when they weren't even on the radar is just showing off and not at all helpful IMO.

No, it is NOT too confusing for <i>me</i>. But then I am not the one who needs help for this trip. I (and several other regulars) can <i>almost</i> always help Fodorites works out really terrific itineraries in the UK/Scotland. But travelGeek is all over the place and can't/won't light on any plan(s). So have at it - it seems the two of you are very compatible . . .

Just got back today from Scotland and read your post and everyone else's replies. One thing you should know is that the Old Man of Storr hike on Skye has been ruined for this year. We went there and they had clearcut the entire area where the trail had been. Logging equipment made the trail extremely muddy and in some places treacherous. There are still other areas on Skye that offer good hiking however so don't limit your time on Skye because of that.

Oh wow JanisJ - compatible with Improvisor...

Given the dialogue between you and Improvisor online, this cannot be seen as anything but a jab (no offence Improvisor but you will know how it was meant and it was aimed at you as well).

Forums are open communities - when people are judged and criticized they are not - Janis is faulted for suggestions, Improvisor faulted for examples, we are faulted for questions.

For Gardyloo who has cast a constructive and helpful reply - thank you (again). It was very nice of you to do this. TBH, the Fife area, despite our reading and research, never even showed up on the radar so I will break out the map and check for availability as your itinerary is logical.

How many days/nights would you recommend in Fife?

Gardyloo - What made you chose Fife over Perthshire Hills territory and Isle of Skye? And if you could only see Scotland once ever, would you still recommend Fife over these other areas?

Access to scenery, sites and activities at both locations combined with the fact that there were accommodations available there to make them our options for the middle of the trip.

About the last part of your trip (leaving Edinburgh) - we were going to take the A68 through Northumberland hoping it would leave enough time to stop at Vindolanda and Housesteads (Chesters, maybe Castlerigg Stone Circle). If we stop at Berwick and travel over to Lindisfarne on route, will we still have enough time to make these stopsl, and make it to N. Lakes for dinner?

Improviser - it looks like the hostel has closed down effective 2012.

<i>Gardyloo - What made you chose Fife over Perthshire Hills territory and Isle of Skye? And if you could only see Scotland once ever, would you still recommend Fife over these other areas?</i>

I said I wouldn't come back to this thread, but alas I am once more compelled.

<i>Please</i> read my post again; I said why. The Perthshire Hills are lovely but - IMO - they're <i>not different enough</i> from the west Highlands and Inner Hebrides (Glencoe, Skye) to merit a "focus" of their own, while Fife and the east coast <i>is</i>. Throughout, I'm proposing that you use these places as bases for wider exploration. I chose Fife because it has the diversity lacking (IMO) in other alternative locations. Coast, lovely villages, history.

I'm sorry, I don't buy into "if you were never coming back..." lines of argument. You've come to a travel board and are asking for advice as a first time visitor, not a last time visitor. YOU WILL MISS THINGS. Get over it. We (all of us) are suggesting alternatives that will give you some variety, rather than seeing the same sorts of landscapes again and again. But if that's what you want, then by all means spend your uncommitted days in Skye, or in Perthshire. You will certainly have a good time regardless. But if you want to see more than the Highlands and a brief glimpse of Edinburgh, then you'll have to do a little more homework.

<i>If we stop at Berwick and travel over to Lindisfarne on route, will we still have enough time to make these stopsl, and make it to N. Lakes for dinner?</i>

Yes. Note Lindisfarne is only accessible via a causeway that floods at high tide, so you need to be sure you can get back.

TGL

We visited Fife on our Scotland trip this year. I tend to stay out of the itinerary discussions other than to pass on what we did to see if the visuals help:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...s-and-more.cfm

Others may disagree (and be in a more knowledgeable position), but I don't think you need to stop at all the Hadrian's Wall sites particularly if you are trying to get to Lindisfarne and other places.

What great advice - and other entertainment - from this thread!! I am bookmarking for future trips.

Why Fife? Well as I noted earlier on this thread, you will find the WORLD'S BEST fish and chips in Anstruther. That alone is cause to go there.

Gardyloo makes a good point as well about getting more diversity that way. I hadn't thought of that aspect. I tend to think in terms of the Highlands as the place to visit but then I was born in the Kingdom of Fife and so like most people tend to ignore my 'own backyard' as the saying goes.
http://www.fifeserve.com/

Ignore janisj travelGEEK, or as my Mother would often say, 'give it the weight it deserves'. ;-)

Just spent several days looking up accommodations in the Fife area - actually, the closest I came with availability for a family is at a place near Aberdeen (so not even in Fife).

Unfortunately it looks like we are restricted to available accommodations once again - at this point, all we have for the middle of the trip (between Glencoe and Edinburgh) is:

- Aberdeen (2 nights/means 4 Glencoe, 4 Edinburgh)
- Skye (2 nights south/means 4 Glencoe, 4 Edinburgh)
- Skye (4 night north/means 3 Glencoe, 3 Edinburgh)

The same nice accommodations have surfaced again in availability over on a castle estate in Loch Ness for three or four nights but I understand this is not the best either.

I did find an overnight accommodation on the banks of Loch Lomond on the first day into Scotland - this means that if we come in through Edinburgh, we can see the Wallace Monument/Stirling castle with enough time to land ourselves at Loch Lomond without being rushed or having to try and fit it in between Glencoe and Edinburgh. The next morning we can leave Loch Lomond and drive the A82 up to Glencoe unhurried if we chose this route.

I'll check out fifeserve.com.

So, to get back to the original post, any suggestions for lodging? We're looking for mid-range accomodations near the castle trail and Edingburgh. Coming from Inverness into castle country, so was thinking Dinnet would be a nice central location for two days. Regarding Edinburgh, is it better to stay in the city or outskirts? we will be there the last two days of our trip and then taking the car to the airport, as there are four of us. Thanks in advance.

How are you looking for accommodation travelGeek? If you are sticking to major booking sites you may not be finding all that is available.

Have you looked at these for example:
https://maps.google.ca/maps?ie=UTF-8...21138720713453

traveling, you'd be better off staying in central Edinburgh. If you drop the car, you'll save the rental cost for those two days. In town you'll can walk to the sights and not have to find and pay for parking. And you'll able to split up and go back to the hotel as you want.

The Edinburgh airport isn't far out of town. Take the bus or a taxi.

<B><red>traveling:</B></red> You'll do MUCH better if you start a new thread of your own instead of tacking on to travelGEEK_live's looooong one...

Your question(s) are different and your post will get lost in the shuffle (plus tG's thread is complicated enough as it is w/o taking it off in another direction).

Re staying in Edinburgh - I'd definitely 1) stay IN the city and 2) drop the car before heading into the city. Driving/parking in central Edinburgh is more than a bear. You could maybe use the car to drop folks at the hotel and return it to EDI before taking public transport back into the city. But I wouldn't even do that. Drop the car at EDI and jump in a cab (they have van sized cabs that easily hold all 4 of you).

When you re-post - give us you actual budget. Midrange could mean anything.

was posting the same time as Mimar . . .

To traveling----Perhaps lost in the post (way) above:

re: lodging and in Edinburgh. We recently stayed here and we highly recommend it.

http://www.53frederickstreet.com