Scotland Is Soon NonSmoking
 

For those that enjoy a smoke with their pint you better go to Scotland during 2005 as it was announced that effective Jan 1. 2006 all smoking in public places (and what is more public than a pub?) will be banned and strictly enforced with massive fines for both publicans and clients.

I no longer smoke so no big deal to me but it will certainly impact lots of you. Still seems that the pub and cafe owners/managers should be the ones that make these decisions.

Their loss, however, I wouldn't go somewhere that's all non-smoking, it lacks character, it's too sterile. Even if you don't like smoke you will have to agree it gives a place character. The risk from passive smoking is minimal.

A cigar once or twice a year won't have any impact on your health, and nor will a packet of cigarettes... I'm sure you'll argue with me on that one, so I'm not even suggesting that that is based on medical grounds.

Remember not too long ago when there was a lot of wailing, whining, conjecture, etc., about how the smoking ban in Ireland "would never work?"

I gather that it did, or at least has held firm. Just goes to prove the old adage that, "eventually, everbody stops smoking."

Well as for a little second-hand smoke won't hurt you - may not you but will the staff who has to work in it all day. The NYTimes article on the Scottish smoking ban says that fears in Ireland and NY City that smoking bans would decimate patronage prooved wrong as pubs supposedly now attract more folks than before as many were put off by the smoke. Norway, the Netherlands and Sweden have imminent bans in the works. (One wonders how Dutch coffeeshops, where cannabis is sold legally would be effected by such a ban!) Mayor 'Red'Ken Livingstone is striving for such a ban in London and 65% of Londoners polled support him, though less than 50% approve of extending it to pubs. Liverpool has recently passed such a law. I read that one reason Paris' new Starbucks shop is so incredibly mobbed is not by tourists but by locals seeking a smoke-free environment. The Scottish ban also applies to private clubs, so is far-reaching. Also read the other day that if you live in Milan, Italy you 'smoke' the equivalent of 2 packs of fags a day just by breathing the polluted air! anyway hats off to the Scots and in the not-to-far future the civilized world will learn that your freedom to smoke ends at my nostrils! And the pale of stale smoke that permeates my clothes when i return from my favorite local negates any 'ambience' that smoke may lend to pubs.

My dear, stale smoke on clothes isn't pleasant, but woolen pieces just need to be aired for a day or two, and/or drycleaned.

People are too health conscious these days. Eighty year olds are joining gyms and going on diets, how much longer do they want to live?

MK2, you don't know what you are talking about.

It's not that 80 year olds want to live a few more years but 20 yr old pub staff that don't want to increase their chances of dying prematurely that is the crux of the matter. Patrons can chose to go to a smoky pub, employees cannot. In a few years the idea that smokers were allowed to impact health of others will be considered a barbaric idea. The article I read also contained what i think was an absurd claim by insurance groups in Scotland that such a ban, as they claim it has in Eire, cause ana increase in house fires and people smoke more at home!

Well done Ireland and Scotland, hopefully the Welsh can soon do the same thing !!
I am sick and tired of stinking of cigarettes everytime I visit a pub.
I even eat my lunch at my desk as the smoking area in work stinks and strays into the non smoking area.

Muck

"Eighty year olds are joining gyms and going on diets, how much longer do they want to live?"

Perhaps they want to remain mobile and healthy while they're still alive. Foolish, isn't it?

Muck, you just said on another thread that we should all be more tolerant of each other. Why are you so intolerant of smokers? Okay, I was just ribbing you, but do you see how funny it looks?

My husband is VERY allergic to cigarette smoke, so going to bars and such in Boston was somewhat of an ordeal for his sinuses! Thankfully Massachusetts has banned smoking in all public places. Going out for a drink now is SO nice . . . I don't care about character, I just want a smoke-free place to relax with my man!

Hi Hansikday,
We should be more tollerant that is true, but being more tollerant doesn't mean we have to accept being trampled over -does it?
If I was to stand next to a diner and fart loudly whilst he or she were eating (which I did once lol)I am sure they would have something to say about it, like wise I hate having to share my air with tobacco.
I am not against smoking only rooms, with good extraction smokers can puff away and kill themselves to their hearts content without bothering me at all.

Muck

Muck, I know what you mean.

I also hate having smoke blown in my face while dining, or really anywhere. And I'm afraid I'm not too tolerant in that regard, having spoken up on many occasions. Thankfully, the number of smokers is getting fewer each year.
Poor things!

I've never been to Scotland, and it is among the places I'd like to visit pretty soon. Now I'm glad I waited, and I'll wait just a little more. I don't care who smokes, but being around smoke really makes me sick, so once the ban is in effect and enforced, I'll be happy to have more places where I can visit or eat without risking the headaches, coughs, blocked airways, and other unpleasant physical reactions to exces smoke. Unlike Greece, or even France and Italy in the warmer seasons, Scotland is probably not a place where I'd opt to eat meals outdoors, so I'd probably have to avoid restaurants altogether if they were smokey. Just imagining places and people who don't stink makes Scotland sound more appealing to me.

Very funny, Hansikday, considering the fact that you "blow smoke" almost every time you post something here!

I think for the most part, banning the smoking in public places is a good idea.

Having a nice meal in front of us in a restaurant in Budapest recently, a group of 20 or so German business people wander in, all of them puffing like chimneys. I could barely *see* the food in front of me. Eyes watering and burning. Pretty miserable. And I AM a smoker... well, off and on these days.

I do get the character thing though. There's no such thing as a blues club, for instance, that's not a smoky dive. I can't explain why.

topboy, please explain your remarks.

Is your anger just a natural by-product of your leftist political views and an excessive determination to prevent all viewpoints from being heard?

Scotland? - that's another one off my holiday list along with Norway and Malta. I totally empathise with non-smokers as nearly everyone I go out with is a non-smoker but from a purely selfish point of view I don't think I could handle the the hassle on holidays. Being from Ireland, I like to at least be able to go on holidays and indulge in my nasty little habit. I don't even go out that much here anymore. Too much bother to have herself giving out everytime I slip out for a ciggie, leaving her twiddling her thumbs. Overall though I'd say the ban is working here but I hope for the Scots sake they have a more leniant approach. Obviously us smokers are in a minority so there's no point trying to beat the system but I still reckon a compromise of some sorts would be welcome by both sides.

"that's another one off my holiday list along with Norway and Malta."

marcus, why Malta? I was in Malta last July, and people were smoking as usual.

Countries off your list will soon include Ireland, Scotland (ok part of UK) Norway, Sweden, Netherlands and probably all of London. Plan to trip in the future in Italy and Spain, no doubt the last two to fall as they inevitably will.

Yeah, looks like Malta introduced it recently as well. Here's an article from a local paper;
http://www.independent.com.mt/daily/...w.asp?id=28061

Also this; http://www.no-smoking.org/april04/04-05-04-4.html

PalQ - I've also heard that Nederland is to bring in the ban. How wacky is that? You can sit in an Amsterdam "coffee shop" and get stoned off your head but if you want a Marlboro you'll have to go out on the street.
BTW, the ban in Ireland only works during official opening hours. Come "lock in" time, it's ashtrays out and back to the good 'ol days. Don't see the non smokers giving out at that stage though.

"The NYTimes article on the Scottish smoking ban says that fears in Ireland and NY City that smoking bans would decimate patronage prooved wrong as pubs supposedly now attract more folks than before as many were put off by the smoke."

Actually - that's untrue. The publicans here are complaining that people have been driven away from pubs. This is as a result of both the smoking ban and the increase in the price of a pint in the pubs. People are now choosing to drink at home instead of going out. Some pubs are doing very well though....those with the big beer gardens with heating and shelter.

by the way - when I say "here" I mean Ireland.

What's the real issue here? That smokers have to stand or sit outside?

You don't wander into the kitchen of the pub or restaurant and hover over the stove and oven to inhale that smoke.

You don't direct the exhaust of your car into the passenger area.

Go smoke in the great outdoors - no matter what country. All you need to do is watch a friend die from smoking and cancer - this will cure your habit quickly!

Marqus: I understand the Dutch law is non-discriminatory when it comes to smoke - coffeeshops, which are licensed by the government and can and have been closed recently for violations, would also be subject. Unless they do discriminate and say that cannabis smoke is not nearly as dangerous or lethal as tobacco smoke. Studies saying that distributed by the DEA here to school kids point to that being the case but these studies i understand were down with leaves of the cannabis plant, not the flowers, or 'bud' which is smoked. Study tobacco with burning its flower probably would show far less danger than tobacco leaves. Anyway that will be the day when Dutch coffeeshops goes smokeless - maybe a way of shutting them down as current right gov't wants to.

Here in Queensland, Australia, the govt. is bringing similar non smoking laws in 2005, and I believe most other states of Australia will do likewise down the track.
MKingdom2, have you ever looked at the pub ceilings in Britain, with the brown stained ceiling, just imagine the lungs of smokers, and the poor staff who have to breathe someone else second hand tobacco. Just about every Aussie that visits Britain, seems to mention with the astonishment of "how many Brits & Europeans" smoke. I know of many Aussies who said they wouldn't visit an English pub, for that same reason.
Your right about smokers not living long, however, they do get to give it up in the end, lung cancer helps them stop smoking.

While I agree that the government forcing public places to go non-smoking is a bad law, it is my favorite bad law. Since I have asthma, I very much appreciate having more options when going out to eat or drink.

My dear, I never, ever go to pubs, and as far as I'm concerned, if smoking keeps people like you away, long may people light up!

My dear, let me re-phrase that I only go to pubs under an assumed name, when I pop out of cakes and blow the birthday party for $20 per guy.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so I shall be duly flattered.

My dear, I see you are now claiming to be a flat imitation? Of what, pray tell.

MK2, stop the false bragging - you never got more than $2 from a guy in your entire streetwalking career.

Degas my dear note that that is my impersonator.

MK2 - sorry, I could of sworn it was you who took my two dollar bill. I'm a sucker for a fancy Mayfair address.