Scotland:halloween and Parliament
 

Hello, <BR>This first question may seem a bit ignorant, but I need to know. Is Halloween (all hallow's eve) a "holiday" in Scotland? In other words, are there any Halloween festivities- ghost-story telling etc.? I realize that dressing up and trick-or-treating is probably only done in the North American continent. Or am I wrong? Halloween is my boyfriend's favorite holiday and we will be in Scotland for that day (Oct. 31st). <BR> <BR>Question #2: Can tourists see the Scottish Parliament conduct business from a visitor's gallery? I would love to see it in action! It really is an historic occurrance. Are tickets necessary? Dress code? Where is the Parliament meeting? <BR> <BR>Thank you. <BR>Kittie

<BR>Hallowe'e is a family thing for kids here. "guising" (which is the original trick or treating) is done in residential areas. You might find adult stuff on the theme, but it will be hit or miss. <BR> <BR>There is a visitor's gallery at the Scottish parliament and you can get tickets from (would you believe) the ticket office! There is no dress code- though my friend the Deputy Business Manager says he recommends you wear something. The Parliament is temporarily meeting on the Mound in Edinburgh and is closing for a two week recess up to the 24th October. <BR> <BR>If you are going to do this, I have a bunch of friends who are MSPs and I'm sure I could presuade someone to give you the kid glove treatment

Halloween is not a big thing now. Not in Scotland anyway. <BR> <BR>For real, democratic debates I suggest you go to St Andrews and watch the Purves Puppets. <BR> <BR>I dont happen to think the Scots parliament is anything other than a little scrap thrown to the plebs to keep them happy. Give 'em something to gnaw on and they wont get all bolshie on us. <BR> <BR>Panem et circenses. <BR> <BR>In my mundane job as a civil/transportation engineer, I attended a meeting regarding the sight/construction of the Parliament. Holyrood, where it will finally be was not even an option until the last minute then somehow it was miraculously slipped in and won the bid!(now how did that happen?) <BR> <BR>For those who dont know, the site is at the very bottom of the Royal Mile and, despite being next to the palace, it has been constructed in a very incongruous location. <BR> <BR>From an engineering point of view the location is a disaster: infrastructure poor/non-existant, no parking, in congested area etc <BR> <BR>It should have been constructed on Calton Hill or in that area BUT the Labour government KNEW this would act as a shining beacon for independance. It's also well over budget - the ground's too mushy...pretty obvious if you build something at the bottom of a slope. <BR> <BR>It's got as much to do with Scotland as pizza does to collective bargaining agreements. <BR> <BR>If there was a general election tomorrow and the Conservatives got in, they could quite easily abolish the Scottish Parliament the day after. <BR> <BR>Democracy? Wake up and smell the heather.

Please excuse the family feud. I was trying to keep politics out of it. Tony, whose travel opinions I much revere, has the developed political acumen of the average newt ( actually I probably rate them somewhat higher). <BR> <BR>You will however find public opinion in Scotland split into 3- 25 % or so who want full-blown independence; 25% or so who want to go back to total serfdom ( ie pre devolution) and 50% who want to make the best of what we have which is much more than we have had since 1707. <BR> <BR>Into the last 50% fall people like me who want a federal Britain in a federal Europe; people froma doctrinaire Labour Party perspective who know they can't win in the UK and thus govern England without Scottish Westminster MPs; and the vast majority who actually don't give a stuff but just want whoever's doing it to do the best job for them they can. <BR> <BR>Tony may think this is a scrap thrown to us, but it is what we voted for. If people wanted independence they would vote for the SNP in sufficiently large numbers to achieve it. They don't. They never have. And this Parliament will determine whether or not they will- either it will deliver the amount of self rule we need or want or it won't, in which case the case for independence becomes much stronger. <BR> <BR>I personally don't rate Hollyrood much as site because it's so low down, but Calton Hill would have been worse, and it certainly would have had us raising the 1314 barricades yet agin instead of looking to tomorrow. It's about time Scotland determined its future based on what we can be rather than what we might have been! <BR> <BR>And, notwithstanding the terms of the Scotland Act ( which in this regard I dislike as much as Tony does) if he thinks the Scottish people would stand for the abolition of its Parliament he's even more politically niaive than I gave him discredit for before. <BR> <BR>Sorry about the rant. I'm going home now. <BR>

Sheila, the majority of Scots didn't vote for a political party that favoured independance, that is true, I have no argument with you there. I think one has to look a little deeper to see why not. Basically because they were frightened about it. Frightened of something new, something unknown. <BR> <BR>In my opinion we would be better off OUT of Europe (cant see Norway and Switzerland scraping to get in, can you?) <BR> <BR>Blair was right, it's nothing more than a Parish council. <BR> <BR>Sheila, I am convinced people would want independance if they were shown where it would lead (and not led up the garden path). Ask any American if they think they would be better off still under British control - dont think you will hear many 'yes's' <BR> <BR>This attitude towards independance was nurtered by the Labour Party more than anyone who knew, had they lost, things would not look rosy. <BR> <BR>I am confident that when I am a little older of possibly dead, way into the next century and beyond, that there will be wars fought over water, not just(undeveloped) land. Scotland has plenty of both. England would hate to give that away. did you see that we 'gave' away over six thousand square miles of fishing rights to the English last month? How very generous of us. Scotland has so much going for it and England knows this only too well. <BR> <BR>Most Scots dont know or don't care, that's the sad part. Tell most of them anything and they will believe it. <BR> <BR>Re location for Parliament: shouldn't the White House be hidden away somewhere in Kentucky? <BR> <BR>Sheila the Scots people would stand for the abolition of the Parliament - or at least most of them would. It's the way they have been brought up. Taught to tug their forelock to the English masters and not grumble about it. <BR> <BR>Kittie go take a look - you will enjoy it I am sure, just dont get tangled up in the strings. <BR> <BR>regards

Thank you Sheila and Tony for the great information. I really learn alot from your bantering. This is why I like to stay in small towns instead of the large tourist areas. You get to "meet real people" in the middle of nowhere. <BR> <BR>Maybe I will be lucky and find something Hallowe'e-ish to do where we will be. <BR> <BR>Concerning Parliament: Thank you Sheila for the generous offer! I may take you up on it! Sorry that I can't do my nudist thing &lt;g&gt;. I do have a question:what is an MSP? I would guess Member of the Scottish Parliament? Am I close? <BR>I realize that seeing exciting happenings/debate in the Parliament is a matter of luck- what is happening on that day/at that time. It's like here in the US with Congress. <BR> <BR>Tony, <BR>St. Andrews and Purves Puppets? This sounds very interesting.Also, could you translate the latin for me? <BR>People are always afraid of the unknown.The big question is: does Scotland have an economy diverse and strong enough to survive on it's own? The Upper Peninsula in the state of Michigan has had for about 20 years a contigent of people trying to get the people to vote it the 51st state. The problem is that it doesn't have the economy/population to support itself financially. <BR>As I recall, the White House was placed in a plot of land named Washington, District of Columbia (it was originally a swamp land), because too many congressional representives thought the capital of this country should be in "their state". They had to designate a separate area to stop the bickering. At that time (the late 1700's) the area was considered a place that noone would voluntarily go to). <BR> <BR>Where do the two of you live? There may be a geographic reason for your differing of opinions (just curious). <BR> <BR>Is England getting it's fresh water from Scotland? This is a sore subject here in the Tampa area. Pinellas County (St. Pete) is sucking dry the lakes in Hillsborough County (Tampa) and Pasco County (north of Pinellas). I can see why people would be upset about that. I can also see why England would not want to give that up. <BR> <BR>Ki

Kittie.. <BR> <BR>You are correct, MSP= Member of the Scottish Parliament. <BR> <BR>the Purves Puppets probably have Scotland's interests at heart - same can't be said for Scottish Parliament. <BR> <BR>The latin translates as 'bread and circuses' - meaning give the plebs something to eat and a little entertainment (or the pretence of a little power) and they will be happy. It's all to do with the dumbing down of the people. <BR> <BR>Regarding do we have what it takes? Well I had a look at some of the ex-Commonwealth countries who seceded from it - such notable stars as Bangladesh. They (or any other country) have yet to come crawling back asking to be let back in. It's HUMAN NATURE to want independance. <BR> <BR>When you get married, you do not let your parents still make all your decisions for you, do you? <BR> <BR>We do not currently give water to England (there was talk of it). Just fishing rights/gas/oil/labour/ other resources. <BR> <BR>Our airports are suppressed and not given any decent flight destinations so the Scots have to travel to an English airport (and spend money there) and fly from there. <BR> <BR>I live in the capital, Edinburgh. Sheila, I believe, lives in Aberdeen. <BR> <BR>Kittie....we have fishing, oil, tourism, land, relatively low population, we are ideally suited to tade not just with mainland Europe but North America.

Kittie <BR> <BR>Don't encourage him by asking him questions about his sour approach to life!!(:-)) <BR> <BR>The Purves Puppets are just that- puppets and they are for public enterntainment. Their base is in St Andrew's. It was just a cheap political shot. <BR> <BR>The main differences between Stellarossa and me are that he is younger than me and that he has always lived in areas controlled at local government level by the corrupt decadent establishment Labour Party of Scotland's central belt ( a bit like Tammany Hall) <BR> <BR>Becasue he's younger, he is a product of Thatcher's Britain- she who made everyone believe that every one is only out for themselves, that no-one has altruistic motives and that there is no such thing as "Society". He can't help it, poor love, he is a product of his upbringing. <BR> <BR>Then again, being raised inthe Peoples' Republic of Fife and moving to the heart of Midlothian, where he works for a local government body, all his direct experience of political representation has been of the sort of politician that makes Pat Robertson look enlightened. <BR> <BR>I, on the other hand, am outward looking, enlightened and (being a Liberal, I have to qualify it) possibly right! <BR> <BR>Let the people decide, that's what I say!! <BR> <BR>By the way, Tony, did you see (brag, brag) that I have been put on the Scottish parliament's "Developing Local Government" committee. Got any evidence you would like to submit...or are you going for benevolent dictatorship <BR>

Sheila...if I were to submit evidence to you (which I would very much like to do so)I would be sacked, no doubt about it. <BR> <BR>Your post made me laugh - thanks...I know you to very knowledgeable and cultured. I enjoy the banter, my friend. <BR> <BR>I don't think I have a sour outlook on life - I consider myself to be a realist. I cant sit by and let my country come to its knees by another. A true patriot could not. <BR> <BR>We agree Labour are corrupt. The difference is my party didnt join them. <BR> <BR>Thatcher screwed everything she could out of Scotland, introduced the Community charge here (I liked it - it made everyone pay something) which was in direct contravention of the Act of the Union (1707). <BR> <BR>The people will decide by what they see in the media - which as you know perfectly well is anti-independance. Thus it's no surprise to see 'the people' vote for the safe option of the staus quo. Heaven forbid that we try something new...thats would be just too much of a step,huh? <BR> <BR>Sheila, I have never met you but I would guess this committee you have been appointed to (well done)will not rock the boat vis-a-vis Local Government. <BR> <BR>I dont think they would have me. They dont like radical Scots. <BR> <BR>Sheila, email me.

I just absolutely love the two of you!!! <BR> <BR>You both live in cities. So that doesn't explain the differences. So, I have to go with Sheila's explanation. <BR> <BR>Congrats to Sheila for being selected to the "Developing Local Government" Committee! Please excuse my ignorance, but what does your committee do? Is it concerned with developing the local government body or developing the local government body place of meeting (buildings etc)? I do love the titles your country gives to positions/committees etc. In the US it would probably be something like the "devlo department". We love to call things departments rather that committees. Why? Go figure. <BR> <BR>I am glad to hear that Scotland has the economy/ natural resources to support itself. <BR>I am also glad to hear that England is not taking water from Scotland. If that ends up happening, you will be subjected to costly desalinization plants to get your own water just like we are going to be. The state of Alaska was concerned that the "lower 48" were taking too much of their natural resources and were going to ask for more. So they eventually cut back and passed laws regarding all resources. So I have been told. I do feel sorry for the Scottish people for having other natural resources depleated by others. <BR>Margaret Thatcher- she had a "buddy-buddy" relationship with Ronald Reagan. You can see where Ronnie got us. Under the Reagan administration the national debt tripled into the trillion dollar range (he had the power to veto any budget given to him by congress), airlines were deregulated which resulted in many accidents, taxes went up, and Iran-Contra. 'nuf said. <BR> <BR>This airport thing bothers me. Does Scotland have a "national airline"- like Quantas is to Australia. I looked at Northwest Airlines and IcelandAir. They both fly into Glasgow with stops in Amsterdam and Reykjavik respestively. Tony, are you saying that any Scottish or English airline stops in England before going overseas? Don't the airlines get a certain fee based on what airports they stop at during a flight? I think this is called an "airport tax". <BR>Kittie <BR>

Kittie <BR> <BR>when you were small, did your parents need to cover up the electrical sockets to stop you sticking your fingers in? And you did it anyway? <BR> <BR>One thing is for sure, even with global warming, we are unlikley to run out of water here (as you are shortly to discover!) <BR> <BR>Kittie, I hope you realise that even with the inevitable political niaivity which goes with Nationalism, most of my "attacks " on Tony have my tongue firmly in my cheek. <BR> <BR>The Scottish parliament has set up the committee I have been put on to promote legislation to change the voting system for Scottish Councils, to determine how councillors should be rmunerated, and to try to remove the impediments which prevent good people putting themsleves forward for election. <BR> <BR>We're probably in favour of Mom and Apple Pie too! <BR> <BR>Airlines- because there are only a few of us in Scotland (5m)(not because the English imperilaists are trying to stop us escaping to tell the world about the awaful depredations we suffer under their downtredding heels) most international journeys are routed through airports down south (euphemism for England). <BR>Even the KLM and Icelandair ones you mention follow the same principle , only they use Amsterdam and Reykjavik instead. It's a bit like you, from Tampa, having to come to Britain via Washington or New York; and it is very annoying. There are exceptions but they are few and far between

Sheila, stop patronising me. You are beginning to sound like some know-it-all. <BR> <BR>So nationalism is naive,huh? I hope all the Americans reading this now realise how naive and foolish George Washington was and how America has withered and died after throwing off the yoke of British rule. <BR> <BR>Your sarcasm doesn't sit well in these postings - leave it out. <BR> <BR>If nationalism and independance is so laughable, why do you and others of your ilk get so scared of us and feel you have to attack and ridicule us? Couldn't be because you are frightened we might win, could it??? <BR> <BR>England has had hosepipe bans in the south east for a number of years and, what with the shrinking aquifer under London, it will not be long before that part of Britain will need to import water from another part.(I give you three guesses). <BR> <BR>sheila, Tampa and Washington are in the SAME country. <BR> <BR>You also failed to answer any of my points in the previous postings (now why would that be?) <BR> <BR>You are in the political 'present'in Scotland right now. Unfortunately for you and your pro-Union friends, I am the 'future' and that future, whether you like it or not, is independance from the rest of the UK.

<BR>E-mail follows

Sheila- <BR> <BR>I think you may have scared away poor Kittie. <BR> <BR>I wish you and Tony hadn't taken this off-line, it was the most interesting thread in quite a while. <BR> <BR>Tony- <BR> <BR>Are you sure Scottish parliament isn't worth seeing? If it's anything like listening to you and Sheila go at it, they should charge admission!

Becasue I'm a sort of professional politician ( I don't get paid for what i do, but other people get paid to do what I do, and in some cases I do it bettr than they, I get worried that non-politicians will be bored by political arguing. <BR> <BR>I'll copy you in on the e-mail, which I intend to start on when I've finished the current browse and post

Yes, quite an entertaining, and somewhat enlightening discussion. No offense to any Taiwanese readers, but similar activities in the Scottish parliament might make it even more fun Cheryl. Imagine Tony and Sheila boxing it out during Kittie's visit.

Cheryl ....I didn't actually say it wasn't worth going to see....just 'approach with caution'. <BR> <BR>I will include you in my reply to Sheila.

At some point, do we get to declare a winner in this debate? It looks to be a close race...

No winner .....just a loser all the time: Scotland.

Tony- <BR> <BR>Feeling sorry for yourself may mean an automatic disqualification. Sheila wouldn't do that...