Scotland Border Towns
 

Hi - My party of 8 (4 Adults, 4 children) are planning a 3-day trip from London to Scotland via train to stay in (I think) the border town area. Our main desire is to take a day tip into Edinburgh. Any thoughts on which border town is the best, both for charm and access to Edinburgh? Our interests include scenic walks (with the kids...), good pub food and ale (with the kids...) and perhaps a few shops close by. If you stayed in any cottage that is worth noting, that too would be appreciated. Many thanks.

None of the border towns on the Socttish side are connected to the train network and the only towns on the English side on the network are Carlisle and Berwick-upon-Tweed.

Places like Kelso & Jedburgh would be suitable - but you'd have to get a bus, most of which run from Edinburgh

alanRow beat me to it -- The Borders are great, but there is no place you can stay in the Borders w/ rail service. Does it have to be in the Borders? There are other areas of Scotland that have decent train connections to/from England and to/from Edinburgh.

Options on sort of the edge of the Borders would be Dunbar or North Berwick. They are not near the Border Abbeys but you could see Tantallon and Dirleton castles and St Abbs Head.

It is easy to get to the likes of Melrose, which would be my favorite Scottish Borders town to base in as several ruined abbeys are a short bus ride (or longish hike) from it - I stayed in Berwick-on-Tweed and buses to Melrose and other Scottish Border towns in about an hour - very frequent buses from Berwick's train station.

Berwick itself was a very interesting town - fortified town with old military bastions overlooking the sea. And Berwick has hourly or so trains to Edinburgh - i did a day trip there from Berwick and easily done but i would stay in Edinburgh, IMO one of the world's most awesome looking cities and a great place to be at night when the castle on the hill is gloriously floodlit, etc.

Now if going to Berwick from London and back and perhaps doing some other rail travel with your group ages and numbers by all means investigate the BritEngland Railpass (or BritRailpass if also going to Scotland by train) - because of the Party Pass where the first two adults pay full pass price and each additional adult on the same pass pays 50% and each child under 16 gets a free pass to match what the adults buy - so for 8 people you can have an incredibly cheap railpass that allows you to just hop any train anytime - no advance planning needed - just hop on - a 4-consecutive-day Party and Family pass can be exceedingly cheap - even as cheap perhaps as the online discounts at www.thetrainline.com or www.nationalrail.co.uk - and those tickets are often severaly restricted as to changing and refunding. so at least check out that Party and Family pass with 8 people.
Good sites to help get a fix on Britain's rail system and passes, etc are: www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com. Passes are not sold in British train stations. Not sure a pass is best but with those demographics check it out!

Please note, Berwick and North Berwick are NOT the same place...North Berwick is MUCH closer to Edinburgh than Berwick

PQ needs to clarify -- there is no town of "Berwick".

There is Berwick-upon-Tweed (England) - probably the one he is talking about, and North Berwick (Scotland). They are 40 miles apart. IMO North Berwick would be a better option for both Edinburgh and nearby sites/castels.

But does it really have to be in the Borders? Somewhere near Perth, Stirling, Linlithgow, or Cupar would have rail service and have easy access into Edinburgh.

Hi - So sorry for leaving out critical information..... we are going to take a train from London to Scotland and then rent a car to get us around. (2 cars for our entire party). Let me know what you think. Thanks again.

Oh -- that changes EVERYTHING :)

There are tons of nice towns you could stay. In general, there are fewer rental cottages in the area so it might take a bit more searching to fine one large enough for your brood.

What is your budget?

PQ needs to clarify -- there is no town of "Berwick".

janis needs to read my whole post before making her usual pithy (and pathetic IMO) slam - note i said Berwick-upon-Tweed to preface my comments then later just used Berwick. Was this too confusing for you janis, dear? I'll accept your apology without asking for it!

Cheers - lose the attitude janis as you advice is sterling but you haughty attitude putting off!

There is Berwick-upon-Tweed (England) - probably the one he is talking about, and North Berwick (Scotland). They are 40 miles apart. IMO North Berwick would be a better option for both Edinburgh and nearby sites/castels.


I stayed in Berwick-on-Tweed and buses to Melrose and other Scottish Border towns in about an hour

PQ - it no longer matters -- the OP will have a car . . . .

Well, I think the options are Selkirk, Kelso, Galashiels, Melrose, Jedburgh or Hawick.

I've stayed in the hamlet of Bonchester Bridge in a cabin, but wouldn't recommend that for what you're looking for. For nice town, I'd narrow it down to Melrose, Jed or Kelso, and I think Jed is probably a bit too far from Edinburgh- although it could be done. So, I suggest you have a look at Melrose and Kelso and see which you fancy.

I did a wee rummage online for you and found

http://www.uniquescotland.com/ovenwynd/index.html

http://www.uniquescotland.com/springfield/index.html

http://www.hoseasons.co.uk/webpages/...75&ACODE=S4484

http://www.cottages-and-castles.co.u...ouse-a849.html

http://www.cottages-and-castles.co.u...ny-nts013.html

http://www.littleholidayhouses.com/property?id=2392L

Berwick and North Berwick are the two towns.

Don't think even the Queen refers to it as Berwick upon Tweed.

After the devasting effect of the decline of the clothing/tweed industries some of the border towns have seen far better days. Many shop units are boarded up and some have a feeling that makes you feel uncomfortable.

I would use Berwick as a base as it allows easy access to Edinburgh at just over an hour on a very easy A1. Some of the valley A roads from the other border towns can be hard work and take far longer for a shorter distance.

Berwick also offers you easy access to the castles and scenery of Northumbria.

PQ - it no longer matters -- the OP will have a car . . . .>

8 people in a car or dear do you mean cars or van?

are you gonna upbraid yanumpty for just saying Berwick?

zip it janis darling IMO

"Don't think even the Queen refers to it as Berwick upon Tweed"

Maybe I should indeed re-phrase that statement?

When i was in Berwick-on-Tweed (a k a Berwick) they said the town was somewhat sovereign and had never signed a peace treaty with Nazi Germany. anyone know what that nonsense is all about?

Thanks yanumpty.....an ex bf of mine who was brought up about 15 miles from Berwick, never used the -upon-Tweed appendage......

>When i was in Berwick-on-Tweed (a k a Berwick) they said the town was somewhat sovereign and had never signed a peace treaty with Nazi Germany.<

A myth that related to the Crimean War and Russia. Nothing to do with Germany.

PQ needs to clarify -- there is no town of "Berwick".

There is Berwick-upon-Tweed (England) - probably the one he is talking about, and North Berwick (Scotland).>

so upbraided moi by janisj

yet alihutch posts-...."an ex bf of mine who was brought up about 15 miles from Berwick, never used the -upon-Tweed appendage......"

janisj - what do you have to say to that? Sometimes you write like you know more than you really do!

Hi - So sorry for leaving out critical information..... we are going to take a train from London to Scotland and then rent a car to get us around. (2 cars for our entire party).

Even if just going to Scotland and back by train strongly look at the BritRail Party and Family Pass - you say you are staying only three days well a 4-consecutive-day BritRail Pass for all 8 of your party would cost a collective $748 in 2nd class or $1,100 about in first class - for all 8 people, traveling with one pass. That's about $95 per person or about 50 pounds - 50 pounds for travel on any train anytime there and back and if you did not want to use the car say to day trip into Edinburgh you could use the pass as well.

Compare these to fares you find on www.nationalrail.co.uk and keep in mind the pass let's you hop on any train anytime - and IME with a pass you can make free seat reservations as long as done by the night before.

I will let you guys duke out the "Berwick" bit (!!!) but want to thank you for all of your good information.

PQ - Will look into the passes, thanks.

sheila - Thanks for the legwork. Very kind. You put me on to a website we had not yet seen and believe to have a great booking as a result.

Any further thoughts are still welcome.... otherwise, I will write a review after our trip. Thanks again.

Berwick upon Tweed is Berwick to most folk in the UK - but don't assume that similar will hold for other places.

So the rule is always quote the full name of a place whether it's a town or a street otherwise you'll end up in Stratford (east London) when you want to go to Stratford-upon-Avon or Newcastle-under-Lyme when you meant to go to Newcastle-upon-Tyne - or was that Newcastle, County Down or Newcastle, Shropshire or Newcastle, Bridgend or Newcastle, Monmouthshire or perhaps even Newcastle Emlyn

The peace treaty story is that Berwick was believed to be technically at war with Russia. The story tells that since Berwick had changed hands several times, it was traditionally regarded as a special, separate entity, and some proclamations referred to "England, Scotland and the town of Berwick-upon-Tweed". One such was the declaration of the Crimean War against Russia in 1853, which Queen Victoria supposedly signed as "Victoria, Queen of Great Britain, Ireland, Berwick-upon-Tweed and all British Dominions". However, when the Treaty of Paris (1856) was signed to conclude the war, "Berwick-upon-Tweed" was left out. This meant that, supposedly, Berwick was officially at war with Russia.

However (again apocryphally) a peace treaty was supposed to have been signed by the mayor and the USSR in 1966. The mayor is meant to have said that the people of Russia could not sleep peacefully in their beds.

That is indeed the origin of the story. Fun though it is the truth is a little less interesting. Whilst it it's true Berwick wasn't mentioned in the peace treaty it wasn't actually mentioned in the declaration of war either.

Although were was some ambiguity about Berwick's legal status the 1746 wales and Berwick Act took care of this. Basically, after the act, any mention of England should be taken to include Berwick.

PQ - Will look into the passes, thanks.>

To cut those pass prices even more just look at the Britrail England Pass, which will take you as far north as Berwick (on Tweed) or Carlisle to the west - rent a car there for the Scottish Borders abbeys and Edinburgh and return it in Berwick and those pass prices will be even cheaper than for the BritRail Pass (including Scotland) that i quoted - probably more like 40 pounds per person for 4 days on unfettered rail travel on any train anytime in England - up to Berwick and back for 40 pounds per person and fully flexible tickets to use anytime you want.

I assume we do not need to show our passports to enter Berwick-upon-Tweed or have visas for Berwick?

you say you are staying only three days well a 4-consecutive-day BritRail Pass for all 8 of your party would cost a collective $748 in 2nd class or $1,100 about in first class - for all 8 people, traveling with one pass.>

with just a BritEngland Pass your party of 8 would pay a collective $597 instead of $748 for a BritRail Pass that would include Scotland as well.

But you should IMO consider going first-class with such a large group as you would IME even find seats in the same carriage without reservations in first class (in 2nd class rarely so be sure to reserve seats with a 2nd class pass if you all want to be vaguely near each other IMO) - and for a 4-day BritEngland Pass you all can travel in first class for a collective $855 - up and back on any train anytime.

And IME of decades of traveling on British trains there is a world of difference between first and second class - a difference much greater than any i've seen on the Continent - much larger seats - usually lots of empty seats - mch easier to store luggage without climbing over someone else to access a crowded overhead luggage rack, etc. And on the lines towards Scotland and back you constantly are being fed free snacks and coffee or tea.

Highlanders - you do not say when you are going but if it is between Nov 1 and Feb 28, 2011 then all those Party and Family Pass prices will decrease about 20% or about $487 totall for all for 4-day passes or about 330 pounds for all 8 or just $600 in first class for all 8! It's called BritRail Off-Peak promo.

And when returning to London by train the quickest route goes via York - fantastic York - universally acclaimed as one of the finest it not the finest English cities (2nd to Bath in my book) - and it is so easy to break your journey there - put bags in the station left-luggage lockers and perambulate the few blocks to the world-famous York Munster (see if you can spot the 'imps' high above) and also your kids will love to walk on the path on top of the medieval walls that still largely girdle in the town below them.

And one of Britain's most popular family attractions is actually attached to the York train station by walkways - the National Railway Museum - it's also free and is one of Europe's greatest collection of not only old and modern trains but also has royal train coaches and all kind of stuff for kids - last time i was there there were families all over and loving it.

If you have a pass breaking your journey is so easy as you can later just hop on any of the 2 or more an hour trains to London.

National Railway Museum
The National Railway Museum in York and Shildon is home to the UK's national rail collection. Includes museum visitor info, events, exhibitions and ...
www.nrm.org.uk/