Schengen-Student Study Abroad-Student Visa Problems
 

Hello. There was an earlier post on this subject at http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...omment-9183462. These comments were from 2012 predominantly.

Well the issue is still very relevant today!

My son is currently in Amsterdam (today) after finishing a study abroad semester in Spain that ended April 23. He went to London and then to Dublin and Edinburgh. He was detained in Amsterdam and told he has only four days (now three) to remain a legal traveler. We are all perplexed why they told him this.

His student visa is issued by Spanish Consulate (Miami) from Jan 7, 2015 with an expiry date of May 11. Its duration is 110 days. He left the Schengen country of Spain to go to London and UK (Non-Schengen). He got the stamp on his passport that Alec talked about (early in the other post) at both Valencia Spain and Amsterdam airports as he left and entered. Nothing special at London Gatwick. It is the knowledge of the FSU International Program (college study program) and the Spanish Consulate in Miami (that initiated the visa) that If my son exited a Schengen country (Spain) went to a Non-Schengen country (London) and back to a Schengen country (Amsterdam) that the 90-day visitation time he is allowed would kick in up re-entry to the Schengen country.

So Amsterdam is recognizing the whole school semester as his 90-days and sees him as overstaying his allowed time. They apparently gave him four days to make preparations to leave. His fight is not booked for US until 5/28. His last destinations are Brussels, Berlin, Munich, Athens, Santorini Island, London, Paris, London, US. He flies to US from London on 5/28.

Does he try to get some extension through Immigration Dept in Amsterdam? What about other stops In either Brussels or Berlin say? Does he need to go back to UK prior to 5/11? Or by 11/3 (Day 4) It seems he has done everything correctly.

Thank you for any replies!!

No answer. Where they aware of his Spanish student visa? When my son studied in Spain 15 years ago, he had a 180 day student visa that had to be renewed after the first 90 day. Renew may not be the correct word, the visa was good for 180 days but had to be validated for the second 90 days by visiting a local police station at the end of the first 90 days. He traveled for about a month afterwards but always carry the visa with him. I doubt if anyone here will have an answer for him since this appears to be very technical. Good luck.

What was relevant 15 years ago is relevant today. Times have changed and the 180 day visa went by the roadside.

Apparently your son broke the rules by traveling to the UK on his Schengen student visa. The standard Schengen visa is only good for 90 days within 180 days. So it looks like he may have to change his flight and return to home a little earlier then planned. If he doesn't, he may be deported instead and would have a hard time ever traveling to Europe again, or anywhere else for that matter.

I agree 15 years ago, I'm afraid is not relevant.

Robert 2533, he did not have a schengen visa per se. It was a Spanish student visa that was good 110 days or until 5/11 whichever is correct. He was instructed to go to a non-Schengen country so that when he entered the next schengen country it would reset or start his 90 day tourist travel. That was the instruction from the Spanish consulate. How can this stand?

It would appear you received the wrong information from someone. This stuff happens. I would check with the American Embassy to see what they have to say. He'll have to make an appointment, so it may be better for him to do so in London, not Amsterdam.

No good answer but I am so sorry your son is having this problem. It does seem like he tried to do the right thing. I hope he can easily get this resolved.

The American embassy has absolutely nothing to do with any of this.

Hopefully Alec or one of the other fodorites who actually knows a lot about visa issues will see your thread. But no matter, if the Dutch authorities say he has to leave he has to leave.

(No one is guaranteed 90 days in Schengen, or 6 months in the UK. Those are just the maximums allowed)

Well, it was re-entering Schengen on the still-valid Type D Spanish visa that was the problem. If he were to re-enter Schengen after 11th May, it would have been ok.

Dutch border agent couldn't give him 90-in-180 day Schengen leave while his Spanish visa was still valid (you can't have two visas active at the same time). Leaving Spain for UK didn't cancel his visa, as it's multi-entry. So he should have stayed in UK till 11th and then flown to AMS, and all would have been fine. So they are quite correct in insisting he has to leave Schengen on or before 11th. What your son can do is to leave Schengen for a non-Schengen country like UK, and re-enter Schengen after 11th, and he will be stamped, good for 90-in-180 days. I'd try this somewhere other than the Netherlands.

BTW, it simply confirms my impression that the Dutch, together with Germans and the Swiss, are sticklers for rules and enforce immigration regulations to the letter. Also UK often refuse entry to those who have violated Schengen rules, on the premise that someone who flouts another territory's immigration rules can't be trusted not to do the same in UK.

So happy to share some good news! Our son did make it to the Dutch Immigration office and they acknowledged a mistake. Apparently the officials at the airport did not see that his visa was a Class D visa. These are less common and they thought he had been traveling since January and not a student. They also gave him a letter that explained he was detained at airport and had visited the immigration office and then signed and stamped it. This official also acknowledged our son has the 90 days to travel now.

We are thrilled and our son is back on his itinerary.

Extra notes...the US Consulate did email timely that they could not help with Netherlands Immigration and to go directly to that office. Also, the Schengen countries do share information among themselves. The Dutch immigration office was nice and very helpful and had walk-in hours; we learned that not all in Netherlands have walk-in hours, but Amsterdam did.

Wow.

Pleased for your son.
It would still have been better to re-enter after the expiry of his type D visa to avoid any confusion.

Wow. Glad it worked out, ArtP. Complicated.

Whew! So glad your son was able to get this straightened out but I am sorry he had to go through such an experience. I hope he enjoys the rest of his travels!

ArtesmaPhotog--
I am so very happy for your son and for you--particularly because he really had done everything right.

It is also fortuitous that you were dealing with Amsterdam, even if that is where the problem arose, and not just because of the hours. We were so pleasantly surprised while there that a) the average Amsterdam resident understands idiomatic American English (!!!) and b) there is a solid "let's see if we can work this out" attitude, too.

Your son gets reinforcement that following rules plus persistence does pay off. Good for him!

Good parenting!
AZ

Alec I totally see what you mean and was confused by the dates on his student visa. Started on Jan 7, good 110 days but with expiration date of May 11. So by your statement, his student visa should have had a date of like 4/24, the day after class end. Now I don't know why 110 days does not mesh with May 11 but I guess this is common. Which one rules? I heard cases for both dates while researching.

To all...thank you for your thoughts and ideas,

I'm glad everything worked out, but in any case it is important in such cases (of staying more than 90 days in Schengen) to retain all proof of being in or out of the zone at various times (this can be train or plane tickets or hotel bills, since the passport will not always be stamped).

If you have a full set of printed rules for the visa, it is good to have a copy on hand, because not every immigration official is aware of every rule, and this is the sort of thing that will at least send the person to consult the supervisor.

Hi, most people have been asking about traveling after the end of their student study abroad visa expiration, using the 90-in-180 rule.. I have a similar question, but it involves traveling BEFORE the validity of my student visa.

Alec, I was hoping you could help as I've read many comments and you appear to be extremely helpful! My student visa for France is valid from September 1st-December 21st, and I am planning on backpacking/traveling around Europe/the Schengen area for the summer. We will fly into the UK on June 15th, enter Paris on the 19th, and I will remain in various Schengen countries until July 15th. From July 15th-August 25th, I will remain in France.

Here is my question: I know that traveling from June 15th-August 25th through various Schengen countries (but mostly France) counts as part of my 90-in-180 tourist stay. HOWEVER, what do I do about having a student visa that starts on September 1st? Can I just stay in France and my stay will be legal because I have a visa? On the French consulate website it warns that "a tourist visit of 90 days cannot be combined with a long-stay student visa." Should I go to the UK from August 25th-September 1st to show that I left the country? Or will I have to fly back to the states?

I'm freaking out, please advise!!

I am no expert, but when my daughter studied abroad she went first to England for the summer. She was advised to leave that country for a short while and then return before beginning her stay on her student visa. She left for France for a few days and returned without any difficulty.

She had made her Eurostar reservation (to go to France and back) before arriving in England at the beginning of the summer. She was quizzed about her plans at immigration and felt having proof of her plans helped.

Sofi, Have you checked with the school? My daughter learned from King's College London, where she's studying starting September, that she must return to her home country to apply for student visa a certain number of weeks before start of classes. She had planned to remain in Europe, doing Workaway.

Hello everyone,

I need quick help. I start explaining my situation:

I am from USA and I am currently study in Vienna until 10 July (date when my visa D expires).

I have gotten a job in Madrid for the summer.

I cannot get a new Visa in Vienna because it is too late. What I am planning to do is to go to Madrid and travel from Madrid to UK on the 9 July and come back from UK to Madrid on 11 July.

Doing this, Would I get the 90 days of permission as a tourist? Would have any problems when I go back to USA

Thank so much. I would appreciate any help

>>Doing this, Would I get the 90 days of permission as a tourist? <<

Even w/ 90 days allowed as a tourist -- that does NOT give you permission to work.

Who would offer you a job without a proper work permit (visa)?

Well, maybe I expalined wrong. It is not a proper work, it is just teaching english to children. I mean, it would be the same that going for tourism. Could I do that?

Thank you so much for your quick answers.

>>It is not a proper work, it is just teaching english to children<<

If it is a 'proper' job, or an 'improper' one (under the table), or even volunteering -- you can't work as a tourist.

Joycet - if you are from the USA why is your english so odd? Are you a citizen or did you just somehow travel from here to europe?

Separately, if you are on a tourist visa you CANNOT work - at all - at anything.

And if you are stopped in Spain how will you explain that you have no entry as a tourist? How can you prove you are not just overstaying your other visa?

I believe Joyce is saying she has is getting paid under the table by a private person. I don't believe a school would hire someone illegally, but I'm not sure. there are some exceptions for students, however, in terms of being allowed to work, or "au pairs".

But I think she just wants to know the answer as if she were a tourist (forget the work issue).

And you do not need a work permit to do volunteer work in Spain.

>>I believe Joyce is saying she has is getting paid under the table by a private person.<<

Yes,Christina -- we assumed she meant being paid under the table . . . which is definitely illegal.

And how will she explain where she is staying or how paying for her hotels if she is topped and asked.

And what happens when she finally leaves Spain and they look at her passport visa and see how long she has overstayed?

Thanks everyone for trying to help me.

Just think that I am going for tourism to Spain. I don´t have to justify anything because I just go for tourism. But I have bank statements that proof that I have enough money to stay in Spain by my own.

Just let me know if I can do it. Leave Madrid on July 9th to UK and then come back on July 11th. Just think about I am a tourist in Spain.

Thanks everyone so much.

As Christin said, forget about the work issue.

please let me know. I am soworry about this issue.

Hello, guys I really need an answer since the 10th of July is so close. Could u help me?

Thank u so much

Joycet -

We are NOT the immigration authorities - just a bunch of travelers who have NOT been in your situation. We can give opinions, some based on some similar experience.

But we can;t give you a specific answer. What we say doesn't matter.

You need to talk to the appropriate authorities for an official answer.

My daughter will be starting a semester program on 8/29 in France. The consulate has given her a long stay student visa starting on Aug 9. They will only give her 20 days prior to the start of her program. We arrive in Budapest on July 30 and will be traveling until her start date. She was told she would be able to travel on a Schengen Visa, but will have to exit the Schengen area after 8/9 and reenter using her student Visa. Since the Schengen is valid for 90 days, does she have to exit prior to the start of her program, or does she have until the end of October to exit and reenter under the student Visa. Or will that be a problem with the French immigration if she does not use the Visa until a month or two after the start date? She is also checking with her program contacts on this issue. Thank you for any help.

She should enter with her student visa before the start of her program. If she doesn't and just turns up at some random time they may believe that she really isn't in school and not eligible for a student visa.

Ideally, your daughter should leave the Schengen area before August 9th and enter France on that date or shortly thereafter to activate her student visa. The most convenient non-Schengen area near Budapest to accomplish this would be Romania, but the UK also works well because it's so close to France.

My sons were told not to travel as tourists in the countries where they were going to study until the date that their student visas became valid. But the rules are fuzzy and there are many opinions about this. I would trust the administrators of your daughter's program.

Hello guys. I have very good information from the us embassy in prague. This information is applied also to all the Schengen area. You dont need to leave schengen after the expiration of your visa if you are US citizen, Canadian or from Japan.

Take a look:

http://prague.usembassy.gov/new_rule...tay_visas.html

So finally I will be able to go to Spain because I will have 90 days as a tourist.

I hope this can help a lot of people.

Responding to tustinbells: You have 90 days that you can use before or after your visa. So you will not have problems. Are you from USA?

Yes, we are from the USA. Her contact at her program in Aix is checking into things for her. I hope we can avoid the expense of a day trip to on the Eurostar to London just to validate her VISA. Someone else told us she might be able to go the the immigration office in France and have it validated after 8/9. We are exploring all options.

My son will begin study in Munich April 4. He plans to travel as a tourist prior, flying to Dublin March 10, then Berlin, Krakow, Budapest, Copenhagen, Edinburgh and back to Dublin. He will then fly from Dublin to Munich on April 4 to begin his program, at which time the program will help him get the required student and German residency permits for his time there as a student. He'll return to the US at the end of his program in late July. My question is, will he have trouble entering Dublin or any of the other countries as a tourist in March, particularly since his return flight is from Munich in late July? Or will documentation of all his flights and acceptance to the program be sufficient to show immigration in Dublin, etc that he is just a tourist prior to his studies? We don't think he will have Schengen issues but are worried we've missed something or that having a return flight beyond the typical 90 day tourist allowance could be a problem. Any advice or cautions would be gratefully welcomed.

Is he American -- then there are no issues re his pre-school travel (assuming there aren't any huge red flags you haven't mentioned. He will just be a tourist like everyone else.

BUT >><i><blue>He will then fly from Dublin to Munich on April 4 to begin his program, at which time the program will help him get the required student and German residency permits for his time there as a student. </i></blue><<

Not sure if you meant it exactly as it sounds . . . But he must get his student visa before leaving home - not after he is in Germany.