Schengen
 

Can someone explain the visa requirements to me, so I can explain them to someone else.

Someone I know has rented an apartment in Paris for 6 months. I was under the impression you can't stay for more than 90 days without then leaving for at least 90 days.

What if during the first 90 days you do leave and come back (go to Spain for a week, go to Italy for a week, etc.)?

What is the penalty for overstaying (since you don't need a visa to enter initially)?

Thanks for your help.

There is a long-stay visa ("D") that allows for more than 90 days within Schengen.

Going to Spain or Italy and returning to France does not re-set the clock. They're all Schengen countries.

I can't confirm the accuracy of everything on this website, but it's a place to start:

http://www.immihelp.com/visas/schengenvisa/

Briefly leaving Schengen countries does not count (going to London for the weekend). I believe it's 90 days within a year?

They needs to get an extended visa to stay 6 months.

Having your passport stamped upon entering any one of the Schengen countries (which now includes Switzerland!) is like getting a visa without the hassle of getting a visa ahead of time. And - as already stated - it lets you move among all the Schengen countries for up to 90 days, then you have to be out of the Schengen area for 90 days before you can re-enter. A quick trip across borders does not reset the clock, it keeps running, but if you're still within the 90 days from your earlier entry, you can come back in.

But 6 months in France requires getting the appropriate visa in advance. It is a bit of a hassle, but gazillions have done it, obviously it can be done.

I assume they will have round trip tickets - right. If so, the date on the return tix will alert the immigration officers that they plan on staying more than 90 days - so it is probable they would be placed on a return flight back home and never set foot in their rented apartment.

Or . . . If they arrive on one-way tix - then that will also alert the authorities.

So they really do need to get visas. When is the trip - if soon they are probably SOL.

No, the trip isn't soon - it's in June, so they have time to prepare. What gets you an extended Visa? They will have return tickets, and obviously a place to stay -- is there anything else they need to show (tax returns :-) ?)

Thanks all. I've forwarded this information to them.

I'm not quite sure how return date janis mentions would flag immigration. 1) Tickets are electronic these days - nobody (almost) carries paper tickets and 2) I've never been asked to show any return / exit information upon arrival into Europe.

Well if that's true, how would the need for a long-stay visa ever come up (until you're leaving)?

Yes, they would they know the return date since you must enter it on your landing card.

There is even a very good chance the airline would not let them on the plane in the first place. If passport/visa documentation is has to be in order at check-in.

sheesh - edit janisj!! :)

But you get the idea - they don't want to submit fraudulent landing cards.

They need to contact the French consulate and get the complete details. But, at a minimum they will need to show:

Where they will be staying the whole time they are there
Sufficient funds to live on while there (bank accounts etc)
That they intend to return home eventually (return ticket, job they are going back to or property they own in the US)
Proof of full medical coverage while they are in schengen

I'm sure there are other details - and only the consulate can provide full official information.

What landing card janis? I must have missed something the last 10 or so times I've flown to Europe.

Ditto for passport - airline personnel at checkin look to see if it's a valid passport & name matches ticket. The airline doesn't ask or care how long you're staying. For all they know you could be just passing through.

How will the authorities know you've overstayed your allowed time? Well, they really won't, but you (they) will be there illegally if they stay past 90d without a visa.

your friends can listen to J62 - or they can contact the French Consul and find out how to do it legally.

There are all sorts off points at which their plans can go pear shaped . . . . . .

I'm not disagreeing with the need to contact the consulate. Never once did I say they should not have a visa.

I do, however, think travelers benefit from accurate information, not tales that just aren't true.

In my experience your info re landing cards and airlines caring about return dates is not correct. If your experience is different please inform us.

The airline will only be interested in the following:
a) the passport is valid (often aminimum of 6 months);
b) the name matches reservation;
c) there is no inadequate documentation that prevents the passenger from being allowed in. Some nationalities need a Schengen visa, and if the passport doesn't contain it, they won't be allowed to board, as airline will be fined by the destination country by carrying an inadequately-documented passenger. But as US passport holder doesn't need a separate visa for a visit, its absence will not concern them.

So what will happen if the passenger exceeds the 90 days allowed in Schengen? Nothing initially, until they try to leave the Schengen area. If their overstay is spotted, there may be repercussions - just a telling off, a fine, or banned from returning for several years. Also they may hit a problem if their overstay is detected while they are still in Schengen, such as when reporting a crime to the police, being caught for some infringements such as speeding, being involved in an accident, or when they fall ill and then find their medical coverage is invalidated as an overstayer (this depends on the T&C of the policy).

So the traveller concerned should get a long stay (6 months) visa for France at the nearest visa-issuing French consulate, which allows them to travel 90-in-180 days throughout the rest of Schengen, but only after registering their stay at a local foreigners office. There are some documentation required as already pointed (in addition, they may need to supply a medical certificate showing being free from certain illnesses, mental illness and drug addiction) and criminal record clearance. It takes a while for the visa to be processed, as all applications are referred to Paris - about 4-6 weeks is usual.

The airlines do care and question when you check-in or at least they did when my daughter was going to Spain for 6 months. While no one travels with paper tickets anymore, it doesn't mean the agent can't see your entire ticket when you check-in.

&quot;<i>The airlines do care and question when you check-in</i>&quot; That is my experience as well. I observed a passenger being pulled aside at SFO check-in for a flight to CDG because he didn't have a R-T ticket or visa (I only heard bits of the conversation - he was at the next station and was quite upset.

I wouldn't worry about the 90 day Schengen. I flew into CDG in early December 08. The immigration police didn't even look at my passport. No entry or exit stamps in my passport. For two trips to Amsterdam in 08 I have entry and exit stamps but I asked for them. If you have the little blue book you are good to go and stay for whenever, in my experience.

BTW, the official rule is 90 days in a 180 day period for Yanks in the Schengen Zone.

&gt;&gt;In my experience your info re landing cards and airlines caring about return dates is not correct. If your experience is different please inform us.&lt;&lt;

My experience is different. I am an American passport holder living in England, and travel back to the US for family visits about once a year. I have been asked by the airline to show my visa before being allowed to board for my return to the UK.

Airlines certainly do care about entry requirements, because if immigration refuses entry, the airline is required to fly the passenger back at its expense. There may be other penalties for all I know. The entry requirement for a six month stay in France would be an extended visa.

First, I agree that the OP's friends should get in touch with the French consulate and should follow the rules.

However our experience with passport control has been much less strict than some of you talk about - it's interesting how arbitrary the enforcement seems to be.

DH and I are US passport holders and we are currently living in Amsterdam for a year where DH is doing a sabbatical. We came with no special visa. The sponsoring university here in Amsterdam told us to do it that way and that we could complete all the necessary paperwork after we were here, with their help. We came on a one-way ticket. Got absolutely no questions of any sort when we entered the country even though we had no date for returning to the States, and no long-stay visa, or anything else.

We have been here for longer than 90 days and we have traveled back and forth to France, Germany, Belgium and Spain (all Schengen countries) and NEVER been questioned or asked to show our Netherlands residence permits (which we now do have). In our experience, no one usually even looks at passports as long as you stay within the Schengen zone - that's the whole point of the Schengen agreement anyway, I thought - to allow more free travel between those countries.

A couple of weeks ago, a bus we were on was stopped at the French border and every one had to get off while dogs sniffed our suitcases and we all had to go into an office to be questioned by police (it was the day after the scare in Paris). They looked at the first page of our passport to make sure it was ours but never looked at the date of entry or asked any questions about how long we've been here. We never even showed them our residence permits.

Meanwhile, DD (20) is studying in Paris for the year. She has encountered the same situation. She has traveled to Belgium, the Netherlands, and Spain with never a question, or even a look at her passport. No one has been the least bit interested in how long she's been here.

I think the issue comes up more often when you leave or enter the Schengen zone from a non-Schengen country (which includes the UK I believe).

Anyway, we have followed the rules and I believe it would certainly behoove anyone else to do the same, but the idea that you are checked up on all the time (or ever, in our experience) is just not the case.

To take NorCalif's points, there are indeed minimum checks when travelling within Schengen zone - that's the whole point of Schengen with the abolition of border controls. But the difference now is that the control has shifted from border to internal, and there is now more frequent, random checks away from airports and land borders. So you could easily get stopped in the middle of Paris or Munich and asked to produce your passports. Admittedly, Americans and other Westerners aren't really targeted in internal clampdowns, but they are not immune to them. Also there is a likelihood of being caught without a long-stay or other appropriate visa whenever you come into contact with officialdom - from speeding fines to being a victim of crime.
While I don't want to exaggerate the danger of being caught in Schengen with inadequate documentation, it's still a criminal offence and the authorities can, and probably will, take action when a case is presented to them - just to show the law applies to everyone, not just to travellers from the Third World.

Just because you haven't been checked isn't any reason to ignore the rules, sorry but that's hardly helpful advice imho.

I appreciate all the advice, including the fact that they probably, or might, or likely won't, have a problem, but, since they have 6 months before they leave, I've advised them to get the long-stay visa ---I just see no reason why they shouldn't do so, especially since they have round-trip tickets, and an apartment for the whole 6 months, and plenty of money/income, etc.

Interesting responses.

If you stay beyond the allowed 90 days the authorities will find out when you leave. There is a significant chance they will check your passport, find out that you have (long) overstayed your visa - and put you on a computerized list of people who will no longer be admitted to Schengen.

Since you have overstayed once, show a complete disregard of local laws, and are potential illegal immigrants - why would they want to allow you back in?

My family recently spent a year in Germany, and after much research we entered the country without a pre-arranged visa. We had a return flight booked 10 or 11 months out. There were no issues at all with the airlines - not even a question about our plans. Once in Germany we went to the local government office and applied for a 1 year Visa. This did not allow us to seek employment, but we were legal to stay for a year. It could not have been easier to obtain. At the recommendation of a knowledgeable friend we took a letter from our bank, and a copy of our health coverage, and a copy of our local rental agreement. The agent flipped though the papers, but they appeared to be entirely irrelevant to him. We just paid the fee and picked up the passports with the newly added visas a couple of days later. We were concerned to head over without prearranged visas, but it all worked out perfectly.

Different Schengen countries have different rules about long-stay visas. Some, like Germany, allow members of certain nationalities (including US, Canada, Japan, Australia etc) to arrive without a pre-arranged visa and apply in-country. Others insist everyone who isn't an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen to obtain a visa before arrival, and I think France will fall into that category.
So in the case in question, they should make an inquiry at the nearest French consulate for their exact requirement.

<i>So in the case in question, they should make an inquiry at the nearest French consulate for their exact requirement.</i>


Which is what I've told them they should do!

I think it has been said before, but the problem of being in the Schengen zone without a valid visa isn't getting caught by random controls.

The problem is that you have a status as an illegal alien. This means problems whenever you have to deal with the authorities, possibly including medical care.

In my opinion, the possible risks outweigh the trouble of applying for a visa. Another point is that this process works in a way as a checking list that everything necessary is provided, as for example a valid medical insurance.