Patrick, my boss had pheasant at Rules & still talks about it.

>>>>>
If someone doesn't like "old fashioned" or a particular type of food served then it's easier to call it rubbish than to say "it's not my kind of dining".
>>>>

patrick...you don't have to agree with audere but you should listen to him. he is teaching you a valuable cultural lesson. not 'getting' why a briton of a certain age and nature would not like what rules represents is like not getting why most americans don't like small, underpowered cars. it's a cultural thing that as an anglophile, you should understand. britain has shed most lifestyle things that many people consider as british. 'old fashioned british' is so reviled that it's not even done in parody by the youth.

i'm not implying that audere is young as i know he's not... but even middle aged people don't like british old fashioned.


....pause for dramatic effect...


rules is about as UNBRITISH as one can get.

walkinaround, did you read all my posts? I clearly said I do now understand, and for the exact reasons you're saying.

But your only mistake is suggesting that ALL British people feel the same way -- about anything at all. That simply isn't true. A great many British people of ALL ages, really do like "British old fashioned". And it's no different in the states. While a great many here will have nothing to do with a steak and baked potato place that brings a complimentary salad in a wood bowl or features a salad bar, there are also a great many people who really do like that sort of thing, and some are even young "trendies" --just like a couple probably in their late 20's I saw at Rules whom our waiter knew by name and were obviously regulars. Don't label all people as having the same taste -- whether you're talking about clothes, food, cars, housing, politics, or anything else you can think of.

By the way, your own ignorance is amazing. What do you mean "why most Americans don't like small underpowered cars". It shows how you sterotype people and often wrongly.

>>>>>
But your only mistake is suggesting that ALL British people feel the same way
>>>>

since when does discussing cultural tendencies imply that one believes EVERYONE behaves in the exact same way?

anyway, if you have any insights into the tendencies for britons to reject or embrace 'old fashioned british', we would love to hear them. it is an interesting cultural topic. but we do understand that these subtleties of culture are not easily understood by spending a some weeks in covent garden.

i will not respond to you calling me ignorant or saying that i 'often wrongly' stereotype people...if you have disagreements with any of my posts concerning cultural tendencies or anything else, i invite you to address my points within those posts. anything else is a waste of time and is best put in the category of a personal attack that is impossible to respond to.

i'm not implying that audere is young as i know he's not... but even middle aged people don't like british old fashioned.>>>>>>>>

Im 42. Is that "middle aged" now? I thought 50 was the new 40, so I was the new 32.

At the risk of turning this thread into a thread about my personal food prejudices I think the following might help.

I went a VERY old fashioned boarding school (founded in 1387 - the menu hasn't changed since then) and as such was brought up on the absolute worst of "classic British" cooking, and on the few days out we got I was usually taken to a restaurant that did a slightly better version of the same*. In all cases you got a lot of napery, a lot of silver cloches and a lot of dead things cooked in cream and brandy. Then you had either crème brulee or, if you were feeling exotic, black forest gateau.

So to me this sort of cooking, presentation and general bumfluffery represents all that was wrong with British food. On these lines Rules, which completely epitomises this approach to cookery and presentation, strikes me as a throwback to a less happy time., foodwise, and it upsets me that people will go there and think that this is the current standard of top-end British restaurants. It's a theme park - enjoy it for what it is.

It seems to be a complete Marmite restaurant as these recent reviews bear out….

http://www.london-eating.co.uk/129.htm

* yes; Southgate Hotel, Chesil rectory and Elizabethan Restaurants in Winchester I'm talking about you!

when ageing winchester schooled toffs don't even embrace 'old fashioned british', what chance do the rest of us louts have.

everyone's background is different but the comment that this food does not remind one of good times is very relevent to many. the periods mid century up to fairly recent have not been a heyday for britain. perhaps this is the reason for rejection of this kind of food (and other traditional things). also (and most obvious), as travel and immigration increased, people realised that british food (as it's traditionally prepared) does not compete well with other cuisines...and no matter the quality, people just don't fancy it anymore. of course, there is a relatively small movement for 'modern british cuisine' in foodie circles but this not the food of average britons.

yes, it is theme park food that is not popular except amongst OAPs. it's not surprising that britons would bring their foreign guests here.

just as hosts in china will (no matter how much you plead) usually bring foreign guests to theme park restaurants. the food is usually good and 'authentic' but a scan of the room reveals groups composed of chinese businessmen with 2 or 3 western guests. the decor and service is far too 'chinese' and the whole experience is just way over the top and a caricature of china in one stop.

and to avoid any doubt, i am not implying that every single person behaves in any one way.

when ageing winchester schooled toffs>>>>>

Oi! enough of the "ageing"! 42 is not old. People* swim the channel and run marathons and stuff like that at 42.

Also, if I ever used the word "toff" in a singles advert the Advertising Standards Authority would be down on me like a ton of bricks.

*Other people do stuff like that. I lie on the sofa and eat pies.

Yes there are certain "rules" to abide by in London for the tourist and visitor. www.londonvacationguide.com has a good section on "handy london etiquette". Abit tongue in cheek so to speak but worth a read!

On the site above - look at what it recommends as "traditional london pubs". That's my arguement in a nutshell. The George, for goodness sake. There are a dozen better traditional pubs within 10 minutes walk of the George.

"i will not respond to you calling me ignorant or saying that i 'often wrongly' stereotype people...if you have disagreements with any of my posts concerning cultural tendencies or anything else, i invite you to address my points within those posts. anything else is a waste of time and is best put in the category of a personal attack that is impossible to respond to."

Ignorance is NOT the same as calling one stupid or dumb or anything like that. Ignorance means you "do not know the facts". That is exactly what you've shown by using an example that would indicate it is common knowledge that "most americans don't like small, underpowered cars." If a person says that the euro is the same value as a dollar, he is ignorant. That's not an insult -- it's a simple fact, so please don't get your tail feathers ruffled at being called ignorant of the facts when you have clearly shown you are.

OK, I'll address that. The top five selling cars in the US last year were these:
Toyota Camry
Honda Accord
Honda Civic
Nissan Altima
Chevrolet Impala
Please note -- none of these cars could be called "big" or "overpowered", the type cars you seem to think everyone knows Americans prefer.


In other words your statement:
"not 'getting' why a briton of a certain age and nature would not like what rules represents is like not getting why most americans don't like small, underpowered cars" makes absolutely sense.

Your "sterotyped" image of Americans is about as accurate as us thinking all Brits live in thatched roof cottages and earn their livings as either nannies or chimney sweeps. Yes, you showed a totally false sterotypical image of Americans. In fact the resentment in the US AGAINST SUV's and BIG, POWERFUL cars is simply overwhelming -- something I guess you are totally clueless about.

Meanwhile, audere, you have clearly explained why YOU don't like Rules and it makes perfect sense. But you seem to be caught up with "it upsets me that people will go there and think that this is the current standard of top-end British restaurants."
Nothing could be further from the truth. I know perfectly well that Rules is not Gordon Ramsey! We go to Rules because it represents something that we DID NOT grow up with and can enjoy as a different dining experience than our own usual getting caught up in the "modern" cutting edge food revolution. And while you abhor the food you grew up with, clearly there are some Brits who DO like that kind of food and still DO like to eat it in a nice enviornment with all the nappery. Some of you seem hell bent to say that there is no earthly reason why any true Brit would go there except to take foreigners. Trust me, you are wrong, some really do like it for exactly what it is.

pasting and copying always seems to get me in trouble. OK, when I pasted and copied your statement about "not getting why a Briton. . ." I clearly meant to say after that, that it makes NO sense, as it doesn't.

Patrick - if you look back you will see that in every post I have said something along the lines of "if you realise that this place is a theme-park and enjoy it for what it is, then enjoy your trip"

And yes there are lots of people who like this sort of thing. My father loved it. However there are many more of us who would consign the whole sorry experience into the same place as Music hall, child labour and consumption.

My only gripe is that in a LOT of the guide books I have seen aimed at yanks Rules is held up as the "quintessentially" English restaurant, which it hasn't been for many years if it ever was.

BTW As was said - Apart from grouse on 12th august all game is hung - and at rules it is quite lightly hung. For domestic consumption i like my game to take after me - well hung.

In case anyone else is still wondering what we're wittering on about here's rule's menu:

http://www.rules.co.uk/rest/mfmenu.html

This is a "game" old conversation. Got to say I'm a young(ish) Brit who likes Rules. I rather like sitting on a table next to a bunch of Japanese tourists wondering how to dissect a Steak and Kidney pudding and then leaving half of it

I guess those guide books should say "quintessentially" OUT DATED English restaurant". You know that IS what we're looking for, just like we yanks like to poke around ancient castles and ruins -- things we don't have here. And certainly there must be lots of "locals" who love "living in the past" as you now seem to indicate there might be.

But with all due respect, your first line regarding Rules was this:
"Don't eat at Rules - it's rubbish aimed at yanks."

And before when I mentioned British friends who adore the place you said;
"If they are english then they shoud be ashamed of themselves." Somehow that seems quite different from saying "And yes there are lots of people who like this sort of thing. My father loved it."

I'm really sorry to hear you think your father should be ashamed of himself!

My dad would be 93 this year - so it doesn't really help the arguement does it? He wouldn't exactly be hip and trendy would he. he wasn't hip and trendy in 1935!

He also used to eat at the Cavalry and Guards club on his occasional forays into london, and belive me, i wouldn't recommend that to my worst enemy.

But in short, if you want fairly ordinary food served in a place that looks like a tart's boudoir, then be my guest - but don't confuse it with a good meal.

As I also said I have fallen for the same thing at La coupole, so I can see the appeal (see also Le train Blue etc).

Jeez, talking about making a meal out of this thread. Pun intended. :-) ((b))

patrick,
i don't know why you are so stuck on my car comment. it is not even central to my post. but, if you must...i never said that americans drive big, overpowered cars. what i said (reread my post) was that most americans do not like to drive small, underpowered cars (a very different implication). this is a FACT that is easily supported by the fact that small underpowered cars are not even sold in the US. the smallest VW in the US, for example is a 2.0 golf (in fact it seems to be a 2.5 now and called a rabbit). in much of the rest of the world, there are two smaller VWs that go down to 1.0 or 1.2. the average gulf is a 1.4 or 1.6 with 2.0 being considered quite a lot of power. if you think of a camry 2.x as a small, underpowered car then you have a different perspective and your argument sounds funny. in fact, none of the cars on your list are small and underpowered by an international measure. to be clear, i'm not commenting on what people should drive, i'm not being critical and i don't want to start a US vs europe car debate as they are boring. i really don't care what people drive in the US.

and you can disagree with someone's perspective without calling them ignorant. i don't see what value that adds to your arguments. btw, i would rather you called me dumb than ignorant..that's closer to the truth. after years of living and working on long term engagements around the world (nearly all of europe, much of asia, and north america) and university degrees/diplomas from three different countries, i think i've experienced a few different cultures and perspectives. but if it makes you happy to call me ignorant because you disagree with what i think is driven in the US, go right ahead.

come back and see us after a few more weeks in covent garden. you're in way over your head. :-)

Don't know it, but Rules looks like a good idea, but the location leads me to believe it's a tourist trap.

There is an English restaurant in Brighton called Harry's which is very unpretentious, liver and bacon, toad in the hole etc. More your school dinners.

I can testify that Audere is not a toff, anyone with enough money can get into Winchester. As such you get the sons of pikey scrap metal magnates rubbing shoulders with the inbred, blue blooded, floppy haired foppery.

neither pikey nor fop - army brat.