Rome Tourism drops the ball on Roma Pass and rips off thousands
 

I have been a pretty strong supporter of the Roma Pass, until now. Due to the recent snow and subsequent shutting down of all attractions and essentially all mass transportation for a period of 2.5 days, anyone who had the Roma Pass and had activated it just prior to the snow and shutdown got screwed.

Before anyone jumps on the "bash the messenger bandwagon", you need to realize that what I am reporting here is a problem that did not need to happen and has probably cost tourists in Rome many thousands of dollars over the past few days, with no recourse. Yes, I am one of those. Here is what happened...

The Roma Pass is a 3 day pass that combines unlimited use of the mass transit system with free access to 2 sites and discounts on all other listed sites. It can be a good deal if used properly. In the past, when you bought the Pass, it came with 2 cards, one for site access, one for travel. The 3 day clock did not start on either of these until you actually used one and each was independent of the other.

The present pass is one card, using a chip. You are supposed to write down the date on the card when you intend to use it. The transport side and site access sides are not separate anymore, so if you take a bus then the site access also starts the countdown.

This seems ok on the face, until something like this past weekend happens. On Friday by noon the snow had started and things begin being shut down. On Saturday and Sunday everything, except a very few bus routes, were down, including ALL sites and metro and trains.

So, we had purchased the Roma Pass on Thursday afternoon intending to use it for access Saturday and/or Sunday (depending on the weather). Original forecast was for heavy rain and possible snow on Friday. Friday we took a bus in the morning, but did not go to any sites due to rain and cold. Friday afternoon everything went to hell in
Rome weather-wise and stayed that way until Monday morning.

Granted, nobody could guess that the entire city would be shut down, but the thousands of tourists in the city (even at this time of year) certainly were not at fault. Where the Rome Tourism office could have easily extended any Roma Pass that was activated (but not used in its entirety) to make up for the complete city shutdown. Instead, Rome Tourism Office simply said "too bad, send us an email". I went to the Tourist Info office, explained the situation that we and thousands of others were facing and I was told I was "harassing them".

The tourists were not in control of closing all sites and transit on Friday afternoon and both Saturday and Sunday. Even today, on Monday, most outside sites are still closed and of course Museums are closed because it is Monday. Tourists were not in control of essentially shutting down all mass transit. But if you purchased the Roma Pass and either wrote in the date or actually activated it, then you got to watch you fee just vaporize, without the ABILITY to use it in any way.

So, I will NEVER recommend purchasing the Roma Pass again and consider the actions by the Rome Tourism Office to be bordering on criminal. Yes, the snow was a natural and rare event, but then what else can shut things down? Why should a purchaser of the pass be financially harmed and ignored, when it could have easily been fixed. The Pass is computer controlled, by simply changing some info in the primary database to extend all Passes, this could have been a non-issue. Instead, anyone that asks "what happened to my money" is "harrasing".

dave

well said, Dave.

trouble is that people will keep buying it so they have no incentive to behave better towards people like you.

i have a friend going to Rome for a week on wednesday, and i'm definitely tell her to avoid the roma pass.

Interesting. There was a strike during one of my trips to Paris and most of the museums were closed. We had Museum & Monument passes and everyplace honored them after the strike ended even though they had expired a day or two prior. We didn't even have to ask at most sites.

I agree Janis, that is kind of what I thought would happen here. Instead, when checking to make sure with the tourist office, I was told that they had just heard from the superintendent's office and was told the passes would expire as normal. That is what made this idiotic, because it was not necessary. Flick a switch and add a couple of days to the database.

dave

Dearly as I love Rome, they simply haven`t got their act together about tourism. The city blathers on and on - and on! - about making Rome the premier destination in Europe with grandiose projects that might never get off the ground, then they drop the ball with things like this.

I would start complaining to multiple places starting with this one. I would also post on their Facebook page.

http://www.beniculturali.it/mibac/op...tti/index.html

[email protected]

I know the T&C state no refunds, but they should have at least extended your cards since it was their fault you couldn't visit as they closed everything.

>>>Reimbursements

Under what circumstances can I request reimbursement of the Roma Pass and/or Roma&Più Pass?

In cases users change their plans, there is no refund for the price of the Card, even if it has not been used (see also FAQ 4.2 and 7.2).

I agree completely with you Ky,

I did not want a refund, simply wanted them to extend everyone's access. Sure, if someone left town, then that brings a different set of things. I also agree with their "no refund" policy, but to essentially not allow one to use what they paid for is wrong. Yep, I'm posting all over the place on this one. Thanks for the support everyone.

dave

The beniculturali website has FB and Twitter links so post away on those.

As for the reimbursement policy, it's for the user changing their plans. You didn't change your plans, the city of Rome did. I wonder if it's possible to dispute the charges on your credit card?

Now that the price of the pass is 30€, you don't really get the value unless there have been admission increases that I'm not aware of. I know the transport prices are supposed to increase, but that isn't until June.

Hmmm, let's see:

On Saturday, Feb 4, daveesl posted on Fodor's that he was in Rome and he had spent the day "just strolling around" and that "yeah it was really neat walking around in the snow, virtually alone." Later: "We hopped on the 46 bus (one of the few running) and went out to Monte Mario. Everyone was throwing snowballs, but nothing was open...By afternoon the mobs were everywhere,"

Now he's in tears, with a different story:

"So, we had purchased the Roma Pass on Thursday afternoon intending to use it for access Saturday and/or Sunday (depending on the weather). Original forecast was for heavy rain and possible snow on Friday. Friday we took a bus in the morning, but did not go to any sites due to rain and cold. Friday afternoon everything went to hell in
Rome weather-wise and stayed that way until Monday morning."

So davesl, knowing the weather forecast for Friday, bought a Roma Pass planning to begin using it on Saturday. Yet he decides to activate his card Friday morning, even though he also knows most museums in Rome are closed Monday.

Am I the only one thinking the Rome tourist office isn't the only one here making bad decisions? Forgive me, but most people, even if the sun was shining, would not have activated their Roma Pass on Friday to take one bus ride.

I have never bought a Roma Pass or anything like it, but if I ever had a problem with one, I would have no expectation that a staff worker behind a desk at the tourist office had to the power to do anything about extending the validity of my card if it had a computer chip embedded in it. And if once I was told this person had no authority to do my bidding, if I persisted in demanding she do something she couldn't do, I would not be amazed if she told me I was harassing her -- because that would be what I was doing.

I would not conclude from the worst freeze anybody in Rome can remember that the on-the-spot refusal of one office worker at the Rome tourist board is evidence that Rome is hopeless, drops the ball, yada yada -- talk about blather!

Fodor's is the premiere destination for people jumping to conclusions that really have no connection to reality or -- dare I say it -- mature thinking.

Please learn this lesson: A piece of paper that you bought is a guarantee of NOTHING. Okay? Got that? And when your plans get upset by events out of control of the Rome tourist board -- who closed sights FOR THE SAFETY OF TOURISTS -- you're not entitled to go pushing around powerless people who simply can't make your little world right for you.

Like the Rome Tourist Office said: Send an e-mail.

But if you'd rather come crying to a "community" for "support", okay. No harm done. I never thought the Roma Pass was a good deal anyway, so other tourists can make better informed decisions.

Zeppole, as normal we look at things in a different light. In your defense, I did make a couple of errors and should correct them. It actually makes things worse.

We did buy the Pass on Thursday afternoon, considered using it on Friday but actually did not use it for the 46 bus trip until Saturday morning. We had, however, already written down the date of Friday on the pass. I made a mistake in posting, stating that we had "used" the pass on Friday, when actually we unofficially began the countdown by entering the date.

When I went to the Tourist Office, I was actually very nice and told the young MAN that I did not blame him, but that the situation needed to be remedied for all concerned and I'd like to speak with a supervisor. He is who told me they had received instructions from their supervisor to tell anyone asking that nothing would be done and to send an email. I then told him that was not a good course for public relations and if he would give me his supervisors number I would happily contact that person and explain the situation. That was when I was told I was "harassing" him. I never once threatened, raised my voice or harassed.

People need to have knowledge to make informed decisions. As I said in the beginning, up to now I pushed the use of the Roma Pass in certain situations. Now, no way.
thank you zepp for your thoughts, all sides are welcome in this discussion. It relates to traveler rights.
dave

Nicely put, Dave.

Rarely does zeppole have much that's sensible to say.

This is the exception.

For god's sake, daveesl, grow up. You're dealing with a once in a half-century crisis. Your hysterical "me, me, me" reaction is contemptible.

Go to Fiumicino. Get on the first plane back to whatever self-obsessed whinger's paradise you hail from, and insist on your "rights" there.

Then stay there. And bully some other poor sod who's just doing his job.

What happens in Venice if you buy a vaporetto pass, say a 24 hour pass, and the boats are stopped because of fog?

Just asking.

I don't think it is possible to just "flick a switch" to extend the validity of an electronic ticket.

flanner, as always, I love your comments.

So, have you ever purchased a product and found out that it did not work or could not work? Did you just say "oh well, better luck next time" or did you either return the product for a refund or exchange. If you decided to not use the product, that would be a different story. But if you could not use it, then it is not your fault as a consumer.

Actually, the reaction is not "me, me, me", but is "lots, lots, lots". There has been a lot of reaction today on how the govt. has dropped the ball in almost all areas of this weather fiasco. I was here in 2010 when it snowed, not nearly as long, but it did mess things up for a few hours. So this is not a once in a half-century event. And snow isn't the only potential problem. In a worsening economic environment, things like protracted strikes can mess things up. If the consumer has no trust that the services they prepay for will be around at some point in time, then they should not prepay.

So for those that wish to go messenger bashing, I'm still here and will be. I appreciate your insights.

dave

daveesl,

Forget about me. Focus on how you changed the story you are telling yourself.

On Feb 4, you posted:

""So, we had purchased the Roma Pass on Thursday afternoon intending to use it for access Saturday and/or Sunday (depending on the weather)"

May I point out the key words?

DEPENDING ON THE WEATHER.

That was your choice. Your thinking. You already knew that the weather might cause you to decide to forego sightseeing at places covered by the Roma Pass.

Not only that, it now emerges that you knew that Rome was under a blanket of snow when you activated the card Saturday. Had you decided on your own over the weekend it was too icy to visit the Colosseum or Forum even if they were open, would you have gone to the tourist office demanding an extension?

The fact that the Rome tourist board closed the sites for the protection of tourists gave you the prefect excuse! You could blame them! You could blame them for doing what you were already prepared to do on your own -- not visit those sites.

Do you get it now?

As for your behavior in the Rome tourist office, once someone has told you the policy his supervisors asked him to relay to you, if you then ask to speak to their supervisor, you are insulting them and demeaning them, and they are likely to feel you are also trying to threaten their job. Lesson learned.

I've yet to see any evidence that you are the representative of thousands of tourists who feel they were defrauded of thousands of dollars this weekend by the actions of the Rome tourist board. The Roma Pass is governed by computer activation. Weekend workers at the offices had no way of re-programming cards and were not authorized to hand out free ones. Most people can figure out such things on their own.

You have nobody but yourself to blame if you EVER travel anywhere and expecting refunds or special treatment if there are strikes. You are now informed. Plan accordingly.

An analogous situation. You buy a four day ski lift pass.

Break your leg on day three – tough, you don’t get a refund for day four.

All lifts fail because of power failure and the weather is perfect for skiing – you can ask for a refund or to have your pass extended.

All lifts are closed for a day because of high wind – and this does happen. I don’t think you get an extension, as the lift company can’t control the weather.

Peter_S_Aus: "<i>All lifts are closed for a day because of high wind – and this does happen. I don’t think you get an extension, as the lift company can’t control the weather.</i>"

Actually, most of the resorts here in Calif. would extend the passes in a situation like that.

z: Even when you do have something semi-sensible to contribute -- you still have to attack folks when you post. You could have posted a response w/ just about the same content w/o being so snide/ornery. Haven't you had enough posts nuked to get the picture???

Janis, thanks for that, and I was not aware.

I wonder how they do that - when I've skied at Whistler, the passes are bar coded and the lifties "shoot" the pass. Must be some fancy software in use to determine which passes are in use, which passes have been bought but not initiated, and how to get around the "ski five days out of six" etc. All that, and then to credit an extra day to the appropriate passes.

Fancy stuff indeed.

I just began using this forum a couple of weeks ago. Is this normal banter? Is it meant to be helpful? Every time I get on there's some contibutor spewing mean-spiritedness. Maybe I'm just too thin-skinned to play with the big dogs.

Just don't post about Italy and you'll be fine ;)

Ain't that the truth.

daveesl: I see no reason why the passes couldn't have been extended without any computer involvement at all. Just let people with passes have another day or two use of them. It really doesn't seem that big a deal. A simple announcement would have taken care of it.

Why not dispute the charge on your CC? You were sold a product that gave you access to transport and attractions. There was neither transport nor attractions. Get your money back.

I agree Tuscan. Dave bought a product from the city of Rome and they didn't provide it. It would have been different if he simply decided not to use the pass because the weather was iffy, but he didn't have the choice of using it.

If you bought a flight that was canceled because of weather, the airline would reschedule you. They wouldn't say too bad as the Rome Tourist Board seems to be.

Hmmm sounds bad. So no Roma pass means we're better off purchasing Museum and site tickets individually?

The answer to your question - a recurrence of that 'one-in-25-years' weather event aside - may depend on how much you value the other benefits offered by the Pass...

http://www.romapass.it/p.aspx?l=en&tid=2

If doing or needing none of those, this soon after the 2012 price increase, it's most unlikely to save you more than a few Euro as against paying as you go along.... although just having one has sometimes persuaded us to take a bus when we'd otherwise have hailed down a taxi!

Peter

Comment on the Roma Pass generally. We've visited Rome a number of times, and each time I price out whether we should purchase the Roma Pass, and each time it doesn't make economic sense FOR US. I'm not sure why - we always visit museums and places like the Forum, though we do tend to spend a lot of time in each place (as in, the entire day at the Vatican). We rarely use public transportation, though, preferring to walk.

So, bottom line is, irregardless of current issues, you should always price out the Roma Pass to see if it's a good deal for you and what you plan to or anticipate seeing in Rome.

I just began using this forum a couple of weeks ago. Is this normal banter? Is it meant to be helpful? Every time I get on there's some contibutor spewing mean-spiritedness. Maybe I'm just too thin-skinned to play with the big dogs.>>

annettafly - sometimes some of us get carried away. I'll leave it to you to decide to whom that applies here. however there are many, including some of those who do occasionally get carried away, who share a huge amount of information for free just in order to help them have better holidays.

so please hang around, and don'e get too put off by some of the bad boys - they are just playing, really.

>>>>you should always price out the Roma Pass to see if it's a good deal for you and what you plan to or anticipate seeing in Rome.<<<

It used to be easy to get the value of the pass when the price was 23€ and then 25€. The Colosseum/Forum/Palantine entry ticket is 12€ and only counts as one of your free entrances off the pass. If you added the Capitolini (12€ most of the time because of exhibitions) or Borghese )(about the same price) then it took only one transport ride to break even. You also get to bypass the ticket lines.

It remains to be seen if any value is there since the recent price increase to 30€ other than line bypass. If the museums raise their prices, then it might be a value again. It may be the Omnia pass which includes the Vatican and Rome is a better value for some travelers (85€).
http://www.omniavaticanrome.org/en/buy-now/index.html

You also get to bypass the ticket lines.>>

frankly that's worth more than the €6 extra it costs even in you never touch a bus or a metro in your entire trip.

the problem for me with the pass is that it means that you really have to concertina to highlights into 2 days, as [as I understand it] you have to use the free entrances first. not everyone wants to see the colosseum immediately followed by the borghese. ok if you only have 2-3 days, but if you are there for a week, i think that it's very restricting.

thanks for the link to the omnia pass - I'd never heard of it, so that's very useful .

There's also the Archeologia Card (27€) which is good for 7 consecutive days (no transport), but not quite the same sites. You can read it about on this link along with the Appia Antica Card and the Four Museum combo ticket.
http://www.roninrome.com/sites-and-a...ickets-in-rome

Value's an individual judgement, but one of the things I've found most useful with the Roma Pass continues to be the map included in the pack, which we take along on every visit. The front's only slightly better than those given away at hotel desks etc, but it has some very handy information on the back....

http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/image/131811136

.... particularly once one's learnt to phone ahead BEFORE setting off to less-frequented places!

At home, in February, it may well appear sensible to use the two pre-paid entries where you'd otherwise pay most on the "Reduced rate" that applies afterwards, but in reality the differences aren't huge...

http://www.romapass.it/doc/sitiAdere...lietti_eng.pdf

For example - give or take exhibition and booking charges - if buying into all 5 of the most popular tickets (for the list, see * below - and note that between them they'd cover an alarming 11 separate museums and sites!), by shuffling a very busy 3 day itinerary one might save €7, spending at most an additional €16 at the last three.

Don't know about anyone else, but I'd think twice before letting +/- 7 Euro dictate my own plans?

The three day duration probably reflects how short a time people tend to spend in the area - not only Italians and other Europeans on weekend citybreaks, but also those from further away...

http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/image/141366535

The Pass is offered as a package, to help visitors enhance the pleasure they get from their time in the city... and although "many a mickle makes a muckle", one can all too easily be "penny wise, pound foolish"?

Peter

(*) http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/image/130860387

Well I guess the tourist office did not magic up the snow.

Was the sight of all that whiteness included in the ticket?

And I guess the OP had the chance to start the ticket when he wanted to

And yes the TI could have just added time on (but hey we are talking an organisation run by Italians here right), (zeppole knocks me half way across the floor with a right punch :-))

And yes we do have some people here who like to offer "hard love" and sometimes the information they offer is the very best (and sometimes just do-lally)

For me the question is did the incident ruin a great holiday for the OP. If so, "let it go", pick up a great incident and tell everyone about that instead.

I guess it pays to read the terms and conditions before you buy.

It is really a waste of time to encourage daveesl to attempt to find some remedy for his alleged victimization. Time-activated cards with radio-frequency strips like that, which monitor when and where they are used and are blocked forever at a fixed time, cannot have their time extended

daveesl has said he doesn't want a refund, but who knows what he'll talk himself into next.

And while I will now refrain from simply knocking bilb across the Forum due the sensitive nature of Fodor's regular posters (their love of civility never on display unless I have posted, please note), I will politely point out that during this extraordinary weather event in Rome, when most working Romans were unable to get to their jobs, essential staff of the Rome Tourist Board -- which every day finds housing for hundreds of visitors and pilgirms who arrive in Rome with no booked accommodations -- not only opened its office but over the course of the weekend, left no visitor to Rome out in the cold and the city managed a situation in which no tourist was injured at Rome's tourist attractions and no objects of incomparable value were stolen due to the lack of staff to guard them.

The charge that the Rome "dropped the ball" or "can't get its act together" or is just too Italian is a thoughtless, ignorant, selfish and bigoted charge, and a terribly ungrateful charge to boot in light of the extraordinary level of care and money Romans and Italians give to the tens of millions of foreign tourists who come here every year, and to the preservation of priceless artworks and monuments of civilisation. I have noticed that several Fodor's posters who can afford to travel to Italy every year like daveesl only look for ways to nickel and dime the Italians at every turn and act as if paying for all this should fall mainly on the shoulders of Italian taxpayers, and they better hop to it when we snap our fingers.

I tend to think that if a terrorist attack had shut down Rome, daveesl would have been too shame faced to go into the tourist office and demand the personal e-mail and phone numbers of supervisors if the impossible wasn't given to him on demand. Please not that Italy suffered a deadly snowstorm, and Italians who felt they had better things to do than spend time attending to daveesl's expired Roma Pass or any well-heeled tourist whining about things not being up to snuff are the heroes in this tale, and people using message boards to try to whip up a mob to slander their reputations actually deserve every rotten thing somebody wants to say about them.


janisj,

You'd be more persuasive if you led by example!

%+{

I assume that the total value in euros of a Roma Pass does not make it feasible to enter into legal battles in the real world. Or even to worry about.

Nevertheless, OP has a valid point.

OP got into a contractual relationship with an entity offering free transport and access to museums for a defined period. For reasons of simplicity, we say that the City of Rome was that entity (in reality probably some commercial subsidiary).

Furthermore, there is mutual agreement that the extreme weather conditions constitute a force majeure, i.e. kept "Rome" from fulfilling its part of the contract due to reasons beyond its control.

At this point, most consumers steer away from the law and assume that one has to forego any remedies as God intervened (or a Russian high pressure zone).
Nothing could be further from the truth (and the law).

The inability of one party to fullfil its contractual obligation due to force majeure nullifies the contract, either in total or partially.
Which means that both parties are back to square one: Rome does not have to fullfil the contract (also does NOT have to pay for damages, i.e. use of taxis instead of free metro) and OP does not have to pay the fixed amount of the Roma Pass.

In case of partial fulfillment (which is usually the hardest to prove for both sides), OP gets reimbursed for the time it was impossible to use the Pass.
So if he activated the Pass Friday morning (to be active until Monday morning), but was unable to use transport and visit museums on Saturday and Sunday, one would have to agree to claim reimbursement for at least 2 days, i.e. 2/3 of the costs for a 3-day Roma Pass.
While national laws differ historically on many items, the effects of force majeure are very similar across borders, with the Italian law being more of the strict side with regard to the nullifying effects of force majeure.

It is absolutely irrelevant in this context that it would have been "smarter" if OP had used his pass on day 1 to a greater extent or not.

As it had entered the discussion: Even if there had been official communication on a weather/snow disaster or the potential threat of such, the burden of not closing the contract would have been on Rome:
It is beyond the average consumer's horizon to judge the ability of the City of Rome to keep traffic running and museums open in the event of a snow disaster.
Rome, though, as a prudent merchant should have that knowledge, one could argue.
And if so or when in doubt, Rome would have had the obligation the stop the sale of Roma Passes once it had become aware of the severe weather.
Otherwise, one could argue that Rome had lured tourists in wasting money on a promise that Rome knew it could not keep.
Which would have made the sale of the Pass as fraudulent as an offer for that famous ocean-front property in Arizona.

The emotional status or the weather-related hardships of the Roman populace or the what some people think would be "nice" or "not nice" are irrelevant.
Business transactions are run on legal terms and statutory obligations for both sides. It's not an area to get emotionally involved.

Dave's perhaps still stuck at Heathrow, where apparently their initial reaction to the snow was to immediately cut one third of all flights...

Peter

<i>"I tend to think that if a terrorist attack had shut down Rome, daveesl would have been too shame faced to go into the tourist office and demand the personal e-mail and phone numbers of supervisors if the impossible wasn't given to him on demand."</i>

I agree daveesl would have acknowledged that THAT would been beyond the control of the tourist employees....although I'm sure there were plenty of tourists in NYC on 09/11/2001 who were furious because their tourist passes became worthless...

I'll probably "risk it" with the Roma Pass when I go in May. Even if I don't come out ahead €-wise, I like having to keep track of less things (separate tickets), and bypassing lines is is a no-brainer. I don't view the pass as dictating my schedule, I see it as an opportunity to plan better.

Cowboy1968,
best reply

ever.

<<I'm just too thin-skinned to play with the big dogs.>>

Don't think of them as big dogs...they're yippee little PITA dogs that got confused and are barking out of the wrong end of their digestive tract. You've just got to figure out which dogs to ignore around here!
:)

bbtb - we've used the Pass 3 times in perhaps 24 visits, and found it a great convenience for what we wanted to do on those occasions.

But once its 3 days have expired you're probably better to just use one or another of these for transport (or walk), and pay at the individual sites...

http://www.turismoroma.it/infoviaggi...-metro?lang=en

Peter