lyb, you're not a little helpless person by any means. I saw a picture of you in Paris.

Degas,

was that an insult or a compliment? :)

lyb = calm, cool, collected!

Thank you very much Degas. :)

....It does reinforce the notion that there are two types of travelers: those who have been robbed and those who are going to be robbed. I will undoubtedly be scolded for saying that .........

ANY YOU SHOULD BE !!!!! That is the type of comment that makes inexperience travelers think they are headed into a den of theives. There is no basis for that statement. It is stupid statement. I would be willing to bet that if you could take an accurate poll on this site, the vast majority of the travelers have not been robbed. We have traveled nearly 300 days in the 12 years or so and never had a problem or even think we have been close to a problem.

Of course, condolences to the OP for the bad-luck bag theft. And others here are right in saying that such thefts are the exception... and surely NOT the norm.

But, just for the record, before we all start assaulting the next European who spells mustard, ketchup or shaving foam on us... I was on Eurostar yesterday from London to Paris, and a fellow traveller at the train bar spilt his beer on me. Naturally, my thoughts turned to Fodors and I checked my wallet and hand baggage. The man in question wanted to pay for the dry-cleaning of my suit (which I declined), and in the end bought my family and I a bottle of champagne.

We are all now rather eagerly looking out for French men (or anyone else) who might spill beer, mustard or shaving foam on us!

glk11b I am sorry for your misfortune and if this ever happens to me, I will try to remember this thread and the others of a similar nature.

But please, help us to understand why you feel the hotel is in any way responsible.

fmpden -

That's simply ridiculous. I've been to europe at last count (I did it for this) 77 times and have never been robbed.

Perhaps because I pay attention to what I'm doing.

I'm not saying it's impossilbe for a really good pickpocket to get almost anyone. But - by percentages, very few people are robbed. And MANY of those who are cause it themselves through their own carelessness.

Don't know if that's the case here - since the OP is unclear - but it sounds like they abandoned their luggage (since the thieves got more than one bag) to mop up a minor spill - not very sensible.

nytraveler, I'm not sure if I'm reading your post correctly or not, but fmpden did not say that everyone who goes to Europe will be robbed. fmpden was quoting Pegontheroad's post above. (see 5/26, 12:33am)

glk11b:

if I were you I would forget about those bags and move on, unless you had some really special things packed in them.

Sorry, Travelnut, but you are 1000 percent wrong about the "lawsuit" mentality-you speak as one who reads the headlines, and knows nothing about law, you know nothing about judges reducing damage awards, you know nothing about how states have put caps on tort damages (personal injury, wrongful death cases), etc., and as far as the rest of the world, particularly in Europe, lawsuits are almost as common as they are, in some parts more so.

And in terms of the McDonald's "hot coffee" lawsuit? I'm wondering if you would feel the way you do, if you were the one who received third degree burns on your legs by putting the coffee cup there to hold it-it was an older lady. If you heard the jury foreperson speak about the verdict, she said that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE JURY MEMBERS BELIEVED MCDONALD'S WAS LIABLE, AND SHOULD PAY BIG DAMAGES.

McD had been warned several times before about their too hot coffee, they had many memos on the subject, that people were getting burned, that they had paid out previous damages, and their cups did not provide enough insulation, nor did they have any warnings on the cups that the coffee was very hot, and to be careful.

Now, their coffee cups DO carry a warning.

So don't talk stupidly about legal issues, unless you have a glimmer of an idea about what it is you're talking about-I find it very offensive.

I would say that everyone who things that the McDonald's lawsuit was frivolous should read the case and look at what really happened. This was not just your average burn but was very severe and required extensive medical attention. The jury gave a verdict but the actual settlement was greatly reduced. Rarely is the actual monetary award given by the jury what the plaintiff actually receives after appeals and settlement negotiations.

That being said, I don't see any way that the hotel could be responsible in this case. I am sorry the OP had this incident happened to them but it is one of the risks that comes with travel. It could have happened anywhere and there has been some very good advise given here that may help the OP get relief from their own insurance company. However, unless the hotel staff was involved I don't see how they could be liable at all.

As for the anti-American sentiments shared on this thread, shame on you. Who said the OP was American and who said Americans are the only persons who contemplate litigation? Oh well, some people never miss a chance to take a shot. I thought travel was supposed to broaden the mind but I can see it doesn't always work.

Girlspytravel, you need to get a grip. At the risk of really pi**ing you off, I am at a loss as to WHY anyone would put a cup of coffee between their legs. Coffee is suppose to be hot, get it??? You should expect to get burned. And, trust me, juries have bungled verdicts before.

No, actually, I DON'T get it, I only get that YOU don't understand the issues, either, but it's a good thing that there are lawyers out there who really ARE looking out for the public interest, in ways you'd never realize which have made your life much safer, but I think you're a bit too obtuse or unknowledgeable to grasp that idea, which is a true pity.

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. Thank you for your thoughts - the subject must be a touchy one for you.

Indeed it is. Remember, something both of you: YOU aren't the ones listening to the evidence and examining it- THE JURY does that-YOU only get the sensationalist headlines-and WHATEVER the press thinks you OUGHT to know, which will sell papers, or get you to watch-the media are masters of exploitation, manipulation and distortion of issues-if you haven't learned that by now, then you really are part of the gullible millions who can't seem to use the brain God gave you to do any more than superficially accept what has been spoon-fed to you by the media.

Sorry girlspytravel, but people need to take responsibility for their stupid actions. Like a prior poster said, who is so stupid as to put a cup of coffee between their legs???? So, if I get burned by touching at the metal inside my oven, should I sue the oven manufacturer? Do ovens carry a warning??? Please! The reason that judgement was reduced is because it was ridiculous! She's lucky she got anything. And save yourself your rants about me being "obtuse" or "unknowlegeable". I have common sense, and my common sense tells me that anybody that puts a cup of coffee between their legs is stupid and society should not pay for their stupidity.

don't get into it w/ girlspy - she will only resort to ad hominem attacks (which have gotten her kicked off of Fodors at least three times)

Oh - on second thought, have at it :)

Well in that I was involved in the insurance industry for decades I KNOW that one of the major problems is that so often insurance companies settle a claim as it is less expensive to do so then to fight the claim in a court of law. And a certain segment of society also knows that and consequently takes advantage of that knowledge. And we the insureds consequently pay a higher premium than we would if the insurance companies would legally fight certain claims. I could write numerous examples that I personally know of regarding this subject.

Anyway glk11b, I am sorry that you had this experience in Florence. But IMO there is no way that the hotel can be held liable for your loss for all the obviouse reasons.

Sorry, but anyone who thinks that lawyers are only looking out for the public good -- now that's gullible!

fortunately the coffee didn´t slip and spill on her child´s face.

no reason to have coffee almost boiling from machines outside your own home.

there needs to be a logical CAP on lawsuits. what people are awarded is ludicrous, and one day might actually destroy a moral concept one might have of justice and society.

getting back to OP.

so sorry you were robbed. had same experience in brussels station. we kept our things in close, refused their help with the kleenex to clean it up, shouted them away from us... they looked at us like we were racists.

but these thugs didn´t give up on us and followed us onto to the train and tried it AGAIN en route to the airport.. first my coat.. then my husband´s.

amazing system they have. needless to say, once we got into the terminal, we were quite upset, gooey.. and fed up with the idea of thieves. it is so frustrating. and they are SO, SO fast.

It is not often I agree with Girlspytravel (just because my opinion differs from her's doesn't necessarily make either of us wrong), but I agree with her about the hot coffee.

McD had been warned, and had taken the view that the advantages of selling scalding coffee outweighed those of being taken to court.

fmpden - the only one who has made "stupid" statements in this thread is you. Anyway, I'm glad to see there were more than a few people in this thread who have a REAL worldly view. Just stay inside your box with your blinders on...

fmpden, Unfortunately, outrageous lawsuits have taken place. However, what the press often reports is the "worst of the worst" to get attention for their station/channel/network! I am sure other countries have a small segment of their population who could shame their country as well! You should look past the sensationalism of the press and get to know people as individuals!

glk11b, As others have said, don't look for someone else to blame. It is not the hotels fault! EVERYONE needs to take personal responsibility and realize that unfortunate incidents occur. However, I AM sorry that this happened to you. Look at the positive side of things: you have become more aware of what can happen and will be more prepared in the future. Your misfortune might help you help others to avoid this scam...So, thank you for the post.

<<YOU aren't the ones listening to the evidence and examining it- THE JURY does that-YOU only get the sensationalist headlines-and WHATEVER the press thinks you OUGHT >>

Regardless of whether you are right or wrong about the McD lawsuit, I wish you would stop with the all cap words. I feel like you're screaming at us.

You don't need to resort to all caps to make your point.

Thanks. That's my rant for the day.

Back to my original inflammatory statement: that there are two types of tourists--those who have been robbed and those who will be robbed.

I guess I should apologize to those of you who have not yet been robbed. However, I am unrepentant.

I've traveled numerous times (and lived for a time) in Europe since 1965. It was really my own fault the time I left the camp stove on the floor of the back seat of my car in Amsterdam. I suspect that someone saw my American forces plate and thought I probably had stuff in my car. They figured out how to unlock my car to remove the stove.

They also saw my plates in Florence. That time the stuff was in my trunk, and they got through that lock, too. Fortunately they didn't realized that this VW 1500 sedan had a trunk in front, too, or I would have lost it all. Both events took place in the 60's.

In Barcelona, in 2004, a clever thief pretending to be a waiter got away with my sister's purse as we sat at dinner in an outdoor restaurant. She didn't even know her purse was gone until I saw the guy hot-footing it away from the restaurant.

In Madrid and in Rome in recent years, attempts were made--once to pick pocket and once to put a hand in my purse, but I yelled at them and they stopped.

Of course, thievery happens at home as well. I've had minor articles stolen from my car at home, in both Sacramento and Spokane, when I was careless enough not to lock it. The most recent was that someone siphoned gas out of my car when I forgot to close the garage door.

None of the European crimes were violent, and I can't imagine that anyone who wants to travel will be deterred by my warning. Every guide book I've ever read has warnings about this kind of thing.

Well - now I understand your attitude.

But as a life-long New Yorker - and someone who has been to europe 70+ times - I've never met anyone who has been robbed/had things stolen so many times. (Even my friend who walks around with her purse hanging wide open on the subway at rush hour hasn;t been robbed this often.)

Do you think it might have something to do with your actions - or lack thereof (not locking car, leaving items in plain view etc)?

Granted, no one is supposed to steal anything. But knowing how many theives there are - wouldn;t it be a better idea to try to do something to prevent it?

NYtraveler,

My thoughts exactly! Not that it can't happened to any of us..but I know that my friends and I take every precaution while traveling or anywhere else...everyone's motto should be "don't make it easy for anyone to take your belongings"

Yes, leaving the camp stove in view, even though it was on the floor of the back of the car, was a mistake, and as I said, my own fault. However, the car was locked in both Amsterdam and Florence. In Florence, nothing was visible, but both times I had American Forces licence plates--which I think made my car a target.

I did forget to lock my car here in Spokane when the gas was siphoned and the time in Sacramento when someone stole my diet Pepsis and a flashlight. My own fault both those times. You'd think I could leave my car unlocked outside my own house when it didn't contain anything valuable. You would, however, be wrong.

In Europe, I'm so careful I'm almost paranoid--thus I foiled the little girls in Rome who tried to pick my pocket/purse--or whatever they were up to. Ditto with the woman in Madrid who pawed at my purse. It may be that I look approachable because of my age--I'm 71. The incidents in Rome, Madrid and in Barcelona, when my sister's purse was stolen, have all happened in the past five years.

"in Barcelona, when my sister's purse was stolen>>

And where was her purse when the thief got away with it? Barcelona is notorious for theft so you should have been forewarned.

If you must carry a purse you have to ensure its security at all times. Don't hook it over a chair or put it on a table or the floor while dining. You have to follow the adage to be aware of your surroundings at all times.

And yes, you need to lock your car at everywhere, even in front of your house.

I think your statement should be amended to "careless travelers will be robbed," but even that is an exaggeration.

She says her purse was on her lap.