Ripped Offf - What Can I do?
 

I was ripped off by an Italian hotel near San Gimignano ($110.00 for one bag of laundry). I will write the hotel itself and try to obtain redress through my credit card company, but is there a better business bureau or other Italian institution from which I can seek recourse? I noticed that the hotel room in Venice had an address to write to with complaints posted on the door.

From your post I can't tell if you were ripped off or not. What kind of "bag of laundry"? Three shirts, or a week's worth of clothing for a family? Hotel laundry charges can be very high - what did the fee chart say?

Many european hotels charge outlandish laundry charges. In Paris I was charged $163.00 for 11 pairs of undergarments and 2 pairs of jeans. My husband put it in our photo album as a joke= ) Best to find your own laundromat in the future.

You can contacting the Guardia di Finanza, the italian police branch that deals with these problems. The main point is that this should have been done while still in the place where you have been ripped off. In the future, if you have any such problems while in Italy (for instance beeing charged outrageous fares for a cup of coffee while sitting at a table in Florence or things like that), call 117, a telephone number similar to us 911 that will enable you to speak with a GdF officer that will give you all the informations on how to behave and, in case of need, the telephone numer of the local GdF officewhere to call for having a GdF patrol help you. Usually just menacing to call Guardia di Finanza is enough to scare the scammers off.

Sorry to say, I think "better business bureau in Italy" would be an oxymoron. While the people one-and-one are charming and warm, good customer service is not a forte of the country.

X<BR><BR>This case seems more like a regular scam than a simple case of bad management of the business. A call to Guardia di Finanza means a fast arrival of a police patrol (do not stop a police patrol passing by: in this case you will need the Guardia di Finanza and not regular Police or Carabinieri) that will consider carefully the situation and fastly punish the hotel or bar or taxi driver etc. if the tariff is too high with a fine or, if it is the case, bring him to court.

So, tell us Alice, what kind of an authority are you to make such pronouncements?

First of all, you did not mention what was in the 'bag'. Also, as another poster stated, most hotels in every country 'rip-off' for laundry. Thirdly, don't you have enough brains to ask about cost first, and if you don't get a satisfactory answer, don't use them.<BR>Even in the U.S. I ask the cost, and if they can't answer me in English, I go elsewhere.<BR>Ask first.

Just a note about the cost of laundry service in Italy.<BR>I was very surprised that on a recent trip, we were not able to find a self service laundry. We tried in several towns.<BR>Also, the cost of a load of laundry was very expensive. To take your laundry and pick it up, it was at least 11 Euro for one load if it took a normal dry. If not, the cost would be more. And the washers looked very small to me. So we really didn't know what they considered a load. <BR>This is without the extra that a hotel might tack on for the service.<BR>I am not saying that you were not overcharged, I just wanted to tell you how much the cost there is. <BR>We could use the washer at the apartment we rented. It was a communal washer (no dryer) and an honor system.<BR>The washer was very small. I suppose you could put three pairs of slacks in it. Anyway, the charge was 7.50 Euro for a load.<BR>I hope you can find someone to help.

Frankly, I don't think there's too much more you can do than contact the cc company and hope for the best but:<BR>I had my laundry done in Italy and much of it was misplaced and/or I had someone else's clothes.<BR>This was a huge hassel and the bill was not as they originally explained as they ironed every single piece of clothing (including socks and underwear) and that cost was prohibitive.<BR>They did find my clothes ( a little late for me to use them in Italy) and were kind enough to ship them to the States.<BR>Lesson: Do your own laundry unless there is a terrific little laundromat that everyone knows of and is using.<BR>Make certain to ask what ALL the charges will be and when you can expect the clothes back. It took them a looooong time to do that wash.

I would contest the charge, and see what happens. In the end you may settle for half.

What "xxx" said below is true: $110 for hotel laundering is not unheard of. In fact, I think you may find that neither the hotel nor the credit card company will offer compensation. I was shocked the first time I had to pay such an exorbitant fee, but at this point it is pretty much understood that hotel laundering is prohibitively expensive.

Like others, I'm curious as to how you were "ripped off?" It sounds like the hotel charged you $110 to do one bag of laundry -- which is, admittedly, VERY expensive -- but did you not ask how much it was before you had them do it? Or did you ask them how much it was, and they charged you far more than they said? <BR><BR>If it's the second case, I'd agree you were "ripped off." If the first, I'd say it's a very expensive learning experience.

Capo: Based on your theory, if you neglect to ask a merchant how much a service will cost, they can then charge ANY amount, no matter how outrageous. So let me understand, if they charged $250 for a bag of laundry, I guess you think that would be okay also. Why not $400?<BR><BR>The answer is, what is fair and reasonable for a bag of laundry from a hotel in Italy? I would suggest you try to find the answer to that question and then you will know what is fair and reasonable. Call a chain such as Marriott, Starwood, Intercontinental, etc and ask about laundry charges in Italy at their hotels.<BR><BR>I would dispute the charge with the credit card company, and let the hotel prove that the charge was fair and reasonable.

Just<BR><BR>My authority comes from the fact that I am Italian and I have been living in Italy for over thirty years. I am experienced on the multiple ways tourists get highier prices for the simple fact that they are tourists (not only foreign tourists but Italian tourists also). I have needed Guardia di Finanza in the past and I will require its services in the future in any case I will feel cheated. Calling the police is everyone's right, that's what the police is there for. prices in italy must not be unjustified, they must be reasonable. I have been charged 30' euros for a breakfast in the center of Firenze, I have called GdF and I ended up paying a reasonable price. Use your rights, do not let yourself be ripped off!

Thanks for the useful information Alice! Are the GdF used thru out all of Italy?

Alice, your story reminds me of one in my own home town where the reverse situation applied.<BR><BR>An elderly lady went to answer her door. Two men pushed their way past her, and proceeded to start removing her antiques and putting them into a truck. They stuffed $5 into her hand before they left, over her protests.<BR><BR>Judge called it a theft, not a sale.

"Huh?", actually, yes. I think any merchant, company, or person can charge whatever they want as long as they don't coerce people into buying their product or service or have a monopoly on a product or service that is necessary, and as long as they don't state one price and charge another. <BR><BR>It's always the responsibility of the consumer to ask about the price beforehand. <BR><BR>I certainly wouldn't be happy about paying $110 for a bag of laundry. And I'm sure I'd be po'ed at the establishment that charged me this. But, I'd also realize, that if I failed to ask about the price beforehand, I was ultimately responsible. Therefore, like I said, a very expensive learning experience. <BR>

Capo,<BR><BR>I think you are wrong in this case. If merchants were to charge eggregious amounts, then it will hurt the tourism or business of that area eventually. The local authority would not agree with your policy in my opinion. A standard of fair practice should be maintain by all community members because the consequences will be felt by the community or businesses of that area in this case. This is a standard business principle.<BR><BR>I agree with a poster above in that research of the prevailing cost should be done to determine whether a legitimate gripe should be made.

We still don't know whether Kolumel asked the price first or not. Kolumel, are you there?

top for kolumel

I think I've been to domestic hotels where the cleaning charge was like $5 per item. A bag of laundry could contain 20 items and, with exchange rates, etc. that could add up to a lot of $$$.

A business should be able to charge what the market will bear. A hotel cannot continue to charge $110 for a bag of laundry -- just like Harry's Bar cannot continue to charge $25 for a slice of lemon meringue pie -- if people were not willing to pay those prices.

I have read that people either charge by the piece or by the pound. It is likely that this hotel charged by the piece and that is how the price mounted to $110 so quickly.

Simple thing to do next time is have a look at the laundry price list, expensive lesson. Some times it is cheaper to have throw away clothes rather than have a hotel wash them.

Capo: The difference is that Harry's show's prices on the menu. You know what the cost is before ordering. Harry's can't hand out menus without prices and then charge whatever they think each table is willing to pay at the end of the meal. Kolumel implies no prices were posted or provided. That's a BIG difference. <BR><BR>I find it hard to believe you would roll over and play dead and pay whatever amount the merchant decided to charge. I hope if I ever go into a service business, all my customers are like you.<BR>

The tone of many of the replies to my query is so rude that I am not going to continue the discussion. Thanks to Alice and the other civil people who replied. Alice -- If you know an address where I can write post facto to the GdF, I'd appreciate your posting it.

"huh?", what's interesting is that even though Harry's Bar posts it's prices on their menu, even that didn't stop someone from complaing here recently that they'd been ripped off by a $25 piece of lemon pie. <BR><BR>If you don't know the cost of something -- a good or a service -- before ordering, if prices were not posted, then what would you do? And what would you recommend anyone else do? <BR>

Well it looks like Kolumel is one of those posters who will only listen to what he/she wants to hear. Without him/her providing the salient details we'll never really know whether he/she was really ripped off or not.<BR>Nothing to see here, time to move on.<BR>

I will never forget the time my son's godfather (from Argentina) came for dinner at our house in Chicago. Rather sheepishly, he asked me if I minded if he put some things in the washing machine. Of course I didn't. He was staying at the Ritz Carlton and said he could buy new socks at Marshall Field's for what they wanted to charge him to wash them at the hotel.Lesson: It's not just in Italy, folks. I once had to pay $10 to have children's pjs laundered in Hawaii (they were badly soiled) I should have thought to throw them in the trash can--they were hardly worth $10.

Has anyone else noticed that Kolumel spelled backwards is Lemulok - a grotesque character on StarTrek The Next Generation. Coincidence? I think not.

What can you do?<BR>Chalk it up to experience.

Capo: Haven't you ever gone to a restaurant and had the waiter rattle of 10 different "specials" without mentioning prices? Sometimes it's awkward to ask the price, due to guests being present or other circumstances. If the average pasta entre on the menu is $20, you can assume the specials will be more expensive but not 3 times the price of the regular entres. If I ordered a pasta "special" and the bill was $60, I would dispute the bill with the establishment and the credit card company if need be.<BR><BR>I recently ordered something over the internet and the shipping charges were not calculated at the time of order. I assumed the shipping would be about $5, it turned out to be $7. If I had been billed $30, I would disputed the bill. The key is what is fair and reasonable? <BR><BR>Happens all the time and I've very rarely had an unpleasant suprise like $110 for a bag of laundry. If I did, I would investigate if that was fair and reasonable and if not I would dispute it. <BR><BR>Frequently when traveling, especially to foreign countries, we sometimes aren't as aware of all the right questions to ask, as we would be at home. That doesn't give the merchant the right to steal. Does it?<BR>

Next time my family goes out to eat and my son orders a "hamburger" should I complain because the American Club in (Sheboygan, WI.) doesn't charge what I'd pay at McD.'s?? <BR>

Don't get me wrong. I think it would be a wonderful world if everyone charge what I felt was a "fair" price. People are charging $450,000 for houses in Seattle and I don't feel that's "fair and reasonable" at all. They, however, probably do. <BR><BR>We obviously have a very different philosophy. I would NEVER assume shipping charges for something I bought. If I did, and they were much higher than I assumed, I wouldn't be happy, but I'd learn my lesson and not do it again.

Kolumel: GROW UP.<BR>Mommy, he charged me too much. how come? Gee, mommy, why did that man take advantage of me? That has never happened before, mommy. I didn't think I had to ask the price. Isn't everyone fair. Boohoohoo.

Hey Capo: $450,000 for a house sounds fair and reasonable to me, 2 bedroom condos are going for $700,000 and up here in Manhattan.<BR><BR>I guess we beat this topic to death, be well.

I paid about 130 Euro to have 9 items pressed only at Villa D'Este in Italy so I could be presentable to eat in the hotel restaurant. They weren't washed or dry cleaned, just pressed. I WAS NOT RIPPED OFF. I didn't have to send it to be done. I had a price chart. The average price at a 5* hotel was about 9 Euro to wash a pair of underwear. I went to a shop in Sicily and bought new underwear for 6 Euros/ea. and thought I came out ahead! In Italy to have one item of laundry done ran from about 9 to 12 Euro. I thought it would be less expensive in Spain because the hotels were, but no, it was 15 Euro to send a shirt or pants to the laundry. I thought it was very expensive, but I have no one to blame but myself as I chose those expensive hotels. Kolumel was not ripped off, just treated like every other hotel guest! Kay

I guess that Kolumel was taken to the laundry.

<BR>you are right, capo, about businesses charging what the market will bear. but, you see, that is the problem with capitalism. under capitalism, businesses will charge as much as they can get, not what is fair. <BR><BR>under communism, we would not allow a hotel to charge an outrageous $110 for one bag of laundry. instead, we would determine a fair price for this bag of laundry and forbid any businesses from charging more than this fair price. that way, people like kolumel would be protected from capitalist greed.