Rick Steves web site
 

In 2000, I had the chance to meet Rick Steves. Steves was staying at the same hotel that I was staying at in Zurich. <BR><BR>I think Rick Steves does a wonderful job in his bringing a more budget, backdoor Europe to the young traveler on a budget.<BR><BR>I love his PBS series as well. His Berner Oberland is what first got me interested in this wonderful area.<BR><BR>Now that being said. I wonder why Rick Steves has an entire folder of messages on the UGLY American. I just looks to me as if it gives some people an oportunity to American bash. Yes I know that some Americans act rudely in Europe. I've seen it first hand.<BR><BR>But here is a this just in: Travelers from other countries can act jerky while traveling also. I saw a bus tour of Germans cause a big time scene in a hotel lobby in Prague once. I thought that there was going to be a brawl.<BR><BR>I guess I get a little annoyed at this American bashing!<BR><BR>I saw some Americans and oh my God, they were wearing Nikes and wearing a Yankees baseball cap. OHHHH BOOO HOOO HOOO. How rude. That is what some of these posts sound like to me.<BR><BR>God bless the USA!<BR><BR>Orange( proud American) Sun<BR><BR>

He is fantastic for the FIRST time traveller because he mostly backbacks and stays at hostels and budget hotels.<BR>unfortunately, every place he mentions gets over run with Americans, which is still ok for th first time traveller.<BR>I prefer Rudy Maxa, I think the photography is better, the same places, more of the off beat sights, and hotels or b&bs more charming.There is room for both to appreciate.

Oh I know Steves is a first rate travel author and all. As I said, I have benefited from his books, web site and his TV series.<BR><BR>When I met him in Zurich, he seemed like a nice, easy going gentleman.<BR><BR>It is just that web page on his Graffiti board devoted to trashing some Americans that bothers me.<BR><BR>I was impressed with the way Steves handled himself when he was cornered in a Zurich hotel eleavtor . He was a polite gentleman all the way.

orangesun, I looked at the site, didn't find it. What's it listed as? <BR>The book that was called "The Ugly America", later made into a film I believe with Marlon Brando.<BR>The interesting thing is The Ugly American was the good guy.

I think it's called ugly American sighting. I could only stomach a few posts.<BR><BR>It is in the graffiti board.

Hi orangesun. I'm not sure I understand exactly what your criticism is. Is it the fact that some people who post there might perceive "ugly" in an aesthetic sense and bash Americans for how they look or what they're wearing? Or is it the fact that Steves provides *any* kind of a forum for people to talk about "ugliness" in a behavioral sense?<BR><BR>In the latter case, your issue would be with Steves, for providing that forum, but in the former case your issue would be with the individual posters who bash based on appearances, rather than obnoxious, or "ugly" behavior. <BR><BR>Personally, I don't fault Steves for providing that forum, along with the wide range of others his website provides. <BR><BR>There's no question that travelers from other countries can also be obnoxious while traveling. However, since I think Steves' services are used primarily by Americans, perhaps the intent -- successful or not -- of that forum is for us to hold up a mirror to ourselves.

You want to see American bashing? Go to the lonely planet, an Australian site, I believe.

I do have to say that I did some posters in that forum defend American travelers. I was pleased to see some people speaking up for Americans. One person said that most Americans are polite while traveling.<BR><BR>As I said, yes I have seen some nasty acting American travelers. I saw this one lady bang her fist on the check in desk demanding this and that.<BR><BR>However, I really do feel that most of us American travelers bend over backwards trying to be good ambassadors for the USA.<BR><BR>

P.S. In looking at the archived posts, the second one points out "This should be Ugly travelers sightings", not just Ugly American sightings, and this person goes on to note that he/she saw people of ALL nationalities behaving badly. <BR><BR>Anyway, I'd agree with that. I have no problem with people reporting examples of obnoxiousness, but perhaps the focus (or title) of the forum could be on the "ugliness" of all travelers, or people, not merely Americans. Americans have no patent on obnoxious behavior.

n reply to capo. It is not that I have a problem with Steves. He just provides the vehicle for people to post this. It seems to me that there is just too much bashing. I like Steves web site as well. I tried to make it clear that I found Steves services valuable. I just can not understand why there is an entire section devoted to this.<BR><BR>Capo, I think it is mostly how certain American travelers act rather than the aesthetics aspect of this. My point was that I have seen rude behavior coming from travelers from other countries as well. Not just rude behavior from Americans.

Perhaps most Americans do that now, go out of their way to be good representatives of the U.S., but I'm not sure that was always the case. <BR><BR>Certainly, in my personal experience, the vast majority of fellow Americans I've seen in Europe have been well-behaved. I can only recall a few incidences where they've made me cringe. <BR><BR>Another thought: doesn't *some* of what we perceive as rude behavior vary from country to country, or culture to culture? For example, in the UK, queueing is fairly well-observed (at least it was when I was last there), whereas in other countries it may be more acceptable to not wait in line, or at least not observer queueing quite as rigorously. <BR>

Since Rick Steves is American, and most of his customers and readers are also American, maybe it's considered more appropriate for us to "police" our own and our fellow Americans' behavior when abroad, rather than turn the forum into a vehicle for ridiculing and "bashing" the behavior of non-Americans. That can easily turn into something bordering on bigotry...<BR><BR>For myself, I am embarrassed when seeing an American behave in a gauche manner, just as one might be with a family member whose bad behavior might reflect on us. And just as with family, I might feel defensive upon hearing "American-bashing" from non-Americans, even if it's justified. <BR><BR>If it's a non-American being rude or demanding, it doesn't affect me that way, and might even relieve me when I see it's not an American. If I were honest, I might even say I get some secret amusement, or a feeling of superiority from it. But I'm not that honest.

Capo, I think the perceptions of rude behavior does vary from country to country.<BR><BR>When I travel to Switzerland and Germany, I wear my hiking boots and sometimes wear a pair of the dreaded white Nikes. I know that annoys some in this forum for people to wear Nikes.<BR><BR>A few years ago while in Switzerland, I saw this young woman wearing a pair of faded jeans, a pair of white running shoes and a Florida Gator shirt. Thinking she was American, I started a conversation. I found out that she was Swiss and had bought the Florida Gator shirt on a trip to Florida. So, Europeans do wear the dreaded white sneakers and sports shirts also. LOL<BR><BR>What really annoyed me was that she bought a Florida Gator shirt. ::major eyeroll:: Just kidding Gator fans. As a Tennessee Vol fan you could expect no less a reaction from me. :-)<BR><BR>Back to Steves, I did read several postings from people who pointed out that rude behavioe occurs from citizens from many nations. I was glad to read that.

orangesun, in scanning through the archives, I noticed a number of posts that pointed that out as well. One British guy though, had a perceptive comment. He said that because Americans come from (arguably) the most developed country in the world, they're likely to encounter things in other countries that they may feel are "substandard" and, therefore, may be a *bit* more prone to complain. <BR><BR>Dina, you said what I was trying to say -- about "policing" our own -- much better. Thanks. <BR><BR>Also, this is a tangent but your use of word gauche is a reminder of the historical prejudice against left-handed people. Both gauche (French for left) and sinister (Latin for left) have negative connotations, whereas droite (French for right) and dexter (Latin for right) have positive connotations, as in adroit and dexterous.

Well, I am right-handed, so I will try to avoid the terms gauche and sinister in my ongoing mission to become a fair-minded person and not disparage the under-privileged.

I too am offended by Americans bashing other Americans on the travel boards. Not only is it found on Rick Steves, but also here, on the AOL boards, and even in the Washington Post travel section. These criticisms come from self-hating Americans with inferiority complexes who think that Europeans are superior in every way, and want to prove to the world that they are better, classier, more cultured, a better dresser, than their fellow countrymen. I find it incredible distasteful - my mother taught me that putting down other people only makes ME look bad.

Is ANY criticism of Americans by Americans "self-hating" and indicative of an "inferiority complex" or a worship of all things European? Or is that a bit of exaggeration from someone who has the opposite perspective, an *excess* of national pride? I see an excess of pride (yes, there is such a thing) as more common, since Americans are taught since early childhood that our country is, in fact, superior in every way, and that most non-Americans wish they were us.<BR>Maybe what some of us call "Bashing" is just a way of taking us down a peg. <BR>If one really felt merely confident rather than bloated with pride, it wouldn't seem so outrageously insulting and infuriating---just an opinion we don't agree with.<BR>Yes, I am putting on my flame-proof undies now.

At least one of the respondents to this subject has reiterated what I have tried to tell people before: when Rick Steves, or any other well-known travel author or guidebook, recommends an "out-of-the-way" place, or a "little-known secret," or something of that ilk, you will always find that the place has already been mobbed by tourists, most of whom are American. Or you will find that it's so small, and so out-of-the-way for normal folks, that it doesn't fit your travel aspirations. The great thing about the Fodor's site, I think, is that individuals tell other individuals about personal experiences that haven't been published in millions of books or seen by millions on TV. Those are the little jewels that I treasure the most, finding the not-yet-mobbed little places that ordinary people somehow discover and enjoy.

I think that what people need to realize is that there are rude Americans and non-rude Americans. People act like that whether they are at home or abroad. Some people just feel that they have a sense of entitlement.<BR><BR>I was in Taco Bell yesterday and saw a very rude woman who complained for 10 minutes. She complained about everything (how slow the line was, how they hadn't given her everything she ordered, how the bag was too thin). If this woman was complaining in a place like Taco Bell, you know she's going to complain everywhere else.

Dina: I cetainly agree with your posting except for one sentence: "most non-Americans wish they were us". As a European, let me share my perspective on that. Most Europeans (surely western europeans) view their nation as ally and friend of the US, but not as their vassal. Debates, discussions, diverging opinions, are allowed between friends, it is even desirable. There are many aspects of the American society whch are considered as inspiring examples, and many other that are repulsive to Europeans. The US are certainly not viewed as a monolithic entity which is either all right or all wrong.<BR><BR>We however often notice an inclination on the American side to disregard any comment or criticism as solely motivated by envy or jealousy. However I never met anyone, in Europe, in all the circles where I am introduced, whether professional or private, who ever mentioned the project, or even the idea, of settling in the USA. This is never an issue in the press, it is never discussed as a topic in any conversation I have been part of. I doubt that Europeans form any substantial part of the current immigrations flows to the USA.

Pat: I don't believe that most non-Americans wish they were us; but that's the impression that children grow up with and retain, when learning that (except for Native and African-Americans, of course) our millions of ancestors were Europeans/Asians/Latinos who chose to immigrate to this country.<BR><BR>Then, of course, we saved the world in WWII. "We" are heroes! Even if this happened when we were two years old.<BR><BR>Of course when you read widely or travel, you find out differently, and start to realize the complex, love/hate or at least like/dislike relationship European (and other) nations have with the U.S.<BR><BR>But early conditioning is persistant. Subconsciously, some Americans are probably disappointed or even resentful not to be accorded special recognition by virtue of their lofty status as Americans.<BR><BR>That's why criticism directed at Americans gets them angry and defensive out of proportion to its importance. And of couse the critic must be motivated by jealousy or envy.<BR><BR>

One thing I have always thought about the "ugly American" concept is that some behaviours that seem very normal here in the United States seem really out of context in other countries. For example, Americans tend to be very outgoing and not shy about talking to strangers. <BR><BR>If you were a person from another country visiting the United States, you might think "My, what friendly people to make me feel welcome." But if you are in your home country and an American comes barreling over to you at your restaurant table, sticks out his hand and says "Hi, I'm Phil, how much do I tip my waiter?", you might think, "My, what an intrusive, oafish fellow." I think a lot of first-time American travellers aren't aware of the subtle differences in cultural behaviour and just go around acting like they would at home.<BR><BR>I don't know if I've explained that well; does anyone get what I'm talking about?

Dina,<BR>I can hear your propoganda machine regarding the war loud and clear. America did not WIN the war...it was the Russians who fought back after brutal assaults by the Nazis and eventually raised their flag over Berlin. It was an allied TEAM effort. As a Canadian I tire and take offense constantly hearing that YOU won the war. Do you know how many Canadadians lost their lives also (and Brits, etc.). WE won the war. Together. I don't mean to start a flame war here but your comment is fact of the propoganda that your children are taught which forms the "we're number one" mentality. I mean your women's hockey team actually had MY country's flag on the floor (not stepped on I will say) before the gold medal game. After the fact that the US flag form the WTC incident was part of the opening ceremonies. That's the type of garbage that your country teaches your children. <BR>Sorry for the rant but get your facts straight.

Corporal, save your ire. I am not a propaganda machine, I was being facetious. Or ironic, or satirical. Maybe I did it too well? <BR>Of course the U.S. did not "win" the war, I was merely using that as an example of the firmly pro-American history many Americans are taught, glean through Hollywood films, etc. and still believe. I can see how it pisses you, a Canadian, off---so that is my point.

Corporal, front and center: ;-)<BR><BR><BR>I agree that the USA. Great Britain, Canada and other nations won WWII.<BR>You're not objecting to that proud battered American flag from the WTC being apart of the Olympic ceremonies are you? I hope not.<BR><BR>There were 3,000 souls lost (mostly American)in that cowardly act of terrorism. It did not hurt a damn thing for us to march that proud, battered flag in the ceremonies.<BR><BR>Did our women's hockey team really throw the Canadian flag to the floor? I dunno since I would rather pick lint off my curtains than watch a hockey game. If the women's team did that then I agree that was poor <BR>behavior!<BR><BR>My original point was that I was amazed that there was such an avenue to let people trash American tourists. I have to say that that web site has improved somewhat on that. In 1997 I went into that Steve's web site and found many, many postings bashing Americans for everything. Wearing the wrong cloths. Talking wrong. Walking wrong Breathing wrong. Eating and drinking wrong. <BR><BR>Maybe it is because of 9/11, but I read more positive things this time around in that particular web forum.<BR><BR>I said this last summer and I wil say it again. I will not go out and spend 1,000-1,500 dollars on cloths just because some Europeans and some silly Americans don't like my wearing white sneakers or tan docker type trousers, faded jeans, a Tennessee Vol 1998 National Championship sweat shirt that I wear for hikes or whatever the cloths.<BR><BR>Especially when I see Europeans wearng some of the same type of clothing.<BR>

Doesn't anybody get it? Dina is trying to explain (apparently unsuccessfully to some) why it is sometimes easy to bash Americans--basically because of their upbringing and being bombarded with the kinds of things Dina cited.<BR><BR>Give it up Dina--either people can't read, or for whatever reason misinterpret the points of your posts.<BR><BR>And Orangesun I totally fail to understand why you are so disturbed by posts on another forum on the net. Agree or disagree, but agonize over it. I guess I just don't get that!<BR><BR>j

Joanne, seeing any bad behavior bothers me. I'm not saying that bad behavior in a public situation should go unnoticed or anything. Yes, I know that some Americans while traveling have exhibited poor behavior. I saw some American man once yelling at some little timid bespectacled desk clerk once. The man said that I'm so and so and I work for this place and you'll will not do this and you will not do that.<BR><BR>I felt like walking over to this blowhard and telling him to shut up.<BR><BR>I know that Americans act poorly in some situations. I also know that is totally unfair for some to single just us Americans out as a whole for poor behavior, especially when I've seen other tourists from other Nations also exhibit poor behavior.<BR><BR>It was just that folder that was set up to do for that porpoise that bothers me.

Orangesun: I have no idea how or why the folder on Ugly Americans was started. Perhaps many submissions went in that direction so a folder was started. <BR><BR>Similarly threads on many subjects are started on this forum. If the title sounds interesting I investigate. If I have suggestions or answers to offer, I give them. If the thread offends me I exit and go elsewhere, or perhaps respond if it offends me sufficiently to make me let off some steam. But in no case am I sufficiently offended to start a new thread about it.<BR><BR>I love my country and was patriotic even before 9/11, but truth is truth and if boorish behavior is observed and then included in the Steve's forum so be it. I frankly can't see the need to start a folder for Ugly Frenchmen, Ugly Germans, Ugly Brits, etc., even though obviously such behavior exists, simply because you feel Americans should not be singled out.<BR><BR>I completely fail to understand your strong feelings about this, but to each his own.<BR><BR>j

What I still don't get is why someone else's "bad behaviour" should bother anyone so much. I'm not talking about an unruly child who disrupts a quiet dinner for everyone in a restaurant. I'm talking about the typical "Ugly American" accusations. When I come back from travelling, I am motivated to write about the sights I saw, the food I ate, the friends I made. I could care less about how strangers acted or what they wore. Again, I contend that it's a fear of being lumped together with those horrendous individuals, to be thought of as "better than them."

123: If you "could care less" about others' behaviour, it means you do care <BR>somewhat. I know that you mean you *couldn't* care less. <BR><BR>But I *could* care less, meaning it does make me a bit uncomfortable if I see that my fellow American leaves a bad impression, which then may predjudice foreigners towards us all. (And I'm not speaking of sneakers.) <BR><BR>As I said before, other Americans are your "family" in a global sense, so yes, we may be lumped together...<BR>But since I have no control over others' behavior, I can only forget it and try to make a nicer impression myself.<BR><BR>And before I get flamed, no, I don't go around kissing Europeans' feet to ingratiate myself. I think I can enjoy myself, suit myself and leave a good impression as well, with my behavior. <BR><BR>As for appearance, someone posted the remark "...it's not as if the trip were a date or a job interview." Maybe my second third, fourth trips (ha!) will find me more jaded, but for this first one, I DID feel like I had a "date" with Europe.

Dina, so did Europe try to kiss you on your first date? :~) <BR><BR>Seriously, I understand that metaphor and how that may have worked for you when it came to how you wanted to appear, visually. And I feel the somewhat the same way (in fact, I care more about how I look now, that I did on my first couple trips to Europe.) But, in fairness to others, I don't think everyone feels that need to make that kind of visual impression. <BR><BR>Now, on the other hand, I do think it's a good idea for everyone to try to make a good impression with their *behavior*. And, to that end, I think that's where that Steves' "Ugly American" forum may be of some service, pointing out gauche :~) behaviors of others that one may want to try to avoid. <BR><BR>orangesun, if that was the only forum Steves' provides, I might share your amazement. But it's just one of countless forums on his site and, as such, I guess I put its presence into perspective. People write about all kinds of things on his site and writing about Americans behaving badly is just a very small part relative to all of the forums & postings there. <BR><BR>Philip, I agree with your comment that "some people just feel that they have a sense of entitlement." Well said. <BR><BR>Julie, I also agree with you about some very normal behaviors here in the United States seeming out of context in other countries. In fact, I have a book on cultural differences between the U.S. and France and the author points out numerous examples of that, one of them being the kind of thing you mentioned, American gregariousness vs. French reserve. <BR><BR><BR>

Capo-Europe kissed me on our first date-on both cheeks **

Dina, how incredibly rude of you to correct my grammar. This is a travel board. "I could care less" is a common expression, even if it is not technically correct, and I'll bet that at least 99.9% of the readers knew what I meant.

123, I was correcting your syntax, not your grammar, but only to make my own point. <BR>Whoops, yet another correction, doubly rude. I don't know what made me do thatt, it was just too easy. I humbly beg forgiveness. <BR>

Blah. Blah. Blah.

Orangesun:<BR>You're not objecting to that proud battered American flag from the WTC being apart of the Olympic ceremonies are you? I hope not."<BR><BR>What I am objecting to is YOUR people daring to use MY flag in a way that would make the American people scream out for treason especially after Sept. 11. And, NO,I am not objecting in any way to the WTC flag being presented at the opening ceremonies. I am only noting the hypocrisy of wanting the world to respect that tattered flag and then going on and treating an allies' flag with disrespect. Even if it was only hockey or a sport you don't care for. Your "I hope not" comment is pretty threatening and I suggest you think about it before posting another comment like that again. I rarely reply to these posts (this will be my last) but I initially responded to Dina's comment anyway. Dina, I apologize, I did not see your comment as irony at the time so please see my feelings for how the Canadian flag was treated, however trivial it was to Orangesun who just doesn't get it. <BR>Signing off <BR>(and I vow to try not to get caught up in such a runaway post again)<BR><BR><BR>

I feel it's far wiser to discuss your concerns with Rick Steves.

So says the Mirror...<BR><BR>BRITS are the rudest, worst behaved and least adventurous holidaymakers in the world - and Germans the best.<BR><BR>Tourist offices placed us bottom of 24 countries, a survey said yesterday.<BR><BR>In contrast those sunbed bandits from Germany ranked highest for behaviour and their attempts to speak the local language. Dermot Halpin, boss of online travel service Expedia which conducted the survey, said: &quot;Much as it pains me to say it, the Germans deserve the best sunbeds.<BR><BR>&quot;British holidaymakers are some of the most widely travelled in the world. But that doesn't mean we're good at it.&quot; Expedia questioned tourist offices in 17 popular destinations worldwide. Britons were worst for rudeness, followed by Russians and Canadians.<BR><BR>They were also worst for their behaviour, learning the language and enthusiasm to try local delicacies.<BR><BR>Next on the bottom of the list were the Israelis, Irish and Indians. At the top, the Germans were followed by Americans, Japanese, Italians and French.<BR><BR>Americans were the most polite and most generous tippers and Italians the most adventurous eaters.<BR><BR>The Foreign Office said: &quot;A lot of our tourists are no worse than other nationals. Look how well behaved they were at the World Cup in Japan.&quot;<BR>

Please tell us that Steves wasn't secretly staying in a five star hotel in Zurich and that his clothes didn't stink!

Can't we give this one a rest? The OP is over a year old. Got problems with Rick Steves, post on his travel site.