Sorry - error on day - It was last Saturday: Paris-Stuttghart-Munich. Internet booking on DBhan.

Once you do validate your ticket, you also have a certain amount of time to actually use it.

I agree with both elaine123 and all who disagree with her. You are all right and it truly is up to the individual.

On one Italy trip, DH and I bought 1st class rail passes for unlimited travel for 2 weeks. This was before we knew about validating tickets by the way. The great thing was going to the train station in the a.m. and picking out the train we wanted to board. Off we flew without regard for those pesky lines of people buying tickets. We visited 11 cities in 14 days!

We actually took the eurostar from one place to another (can't remember where) and the conductor had to sit down and think what to do with us. He just reminded us to ask if we needed to reserve a seat next time and walked away scratching his head at our ignorance and profound good luck.

Oh, elaine, your concierge reserves your actual seats, yes? So you go directly to your train without passing the ticket booth? Not all hotels have that service. Go for it!

not BritRail Passes - BritRail is a product of ACP Rail, a major competitor of Rail Europe, based in Quebec - Rail Europe gets their BritRail Passes TMK from ACP Rail (a k a BritRail).>

and i should have added that this outfit also calls themselves Wandrian Rail and powers railsaver.com that is often referred to on Fodor's to check to see if a railpass is warranted or not.

Oddly enough ACP is owned by former RailEurope bigwigs i believe and is just about the same as RailEurope in every regard.

Can you imagine anyone ever referring to RailEurope's clone of railsaver.com, which does the same thing as Wandrian's railsaver.com? Heck no - even though it is about exactly the same - uses artificially high fares for comparison often, etc.

RailEurope='s bad people - a company that tries to make a profit yet railsaver.com is golden! Figure that out!

Elaine123.... I was just checking on train fares from Hamburg to Berlin and was shocked to come up with a price around $400! (!st Class). Is this right? Or am I doing something wrong?

Gwendolynn, on the day that we plan to travel to Berlin from Hamburg, the trip I would choose would run us $311.85(for 2). This is just for one trip. So, as you can see, buying a pass for $534(twin pass; 1st class) which entitles us to 4 days of basically unlimited travel was really a no-brainer. The only way to go cheaper is to lock in to the advance, no refund tickets. This is why I bought passes.

Many thanx for confirming my numbers -:(

Gwendolynn - I'm not sure what website you are using to check prices, but the the website for German trains, Bahn.de shows 1st cl tickets from Hamburg to Berlin for 49€-69€ for specific trains.
http://www.bahn.de/international/view/en/index.shtml

kybourbon.. that's what elaine said.. discount fares are restricted to specific dates and trains.
If you can book in advance you only pay those 49-69 Euros, depending on availability. If you want flexibility and hop on any train you want (or you can't book in advance), you pay much more (or get a pass).

Cowboy - I saw that elaine wanted to be able to change tickets/times, but I don't see where Gwendolynn said that. You can still buy flexible tickets on Bahn.de that let you hop on trains, but you will pay much more (about double the price). It's like buying full fare on an airline.

PQ - I think railsaver can only use regular price tickets to determine whether a pass is economical. They really can't compare to discount tickets that are subject to sell out or promotion changes and perhaps not be available.

kybourbon - agreed and what they are comparing are fully flexible tickets and thus not always so out of whack as often charged here.

I always say that if railsaver.com (or Rail Europe's clone of it) says a pass is not cost effective then you can be sure it is not cost-effective for sure.

Thanx everyone. We've decided to go to Venice instead -:)

You're welcome Gwendolynn. Either brown bag it or bring a basket of cash to Venice. I've never been to a more over-rated and over-priced place.

spaarne..... I'm so sorry you had a bad experience...... which is all too easy in places dominated by tourist traffic. However, this is our tenth trip -:)

<<I've never been to a more over-rated and over-priced place.>>

My opinion exactly.

Don't be sorry Gwendolynn. I've been there, done that, and will never do Venice again. It was not a bad experience but I'm just happy that it was only for a day. There are thousands of places in Europe and around the world to enjoy without being ripped off to the nostrils. You see Venice differently. To each his/her own. But I really can't believe that someone would go there ten times.

I've been to Venice maybe ten times or more and every time i am more amazed by it - even though my first few times when i stuck to the beaten path between the train station and San Marcos, in August, it was packed to the gills, etc. Oh well we all have different reactions and who is to say who is right and wrong?

Palenque, I agree that we all respond differently to a place.

I have visited Venice 5 x since the late 70s, stayed in different areas each visit, was with different people each time(normally folks traveling to Italy for the first time who really wanted to see Venice). It is a city that has never captured either my heart or my interest, rather I am always anxious to move on to parts of Italy that do.

I feel the same way about Paris after 5 times there as well.

To each his own for certain...

kfusto - i can really understand that - Venice is kind of a museum place and lacks the warmth of a real Italian city - i would not want to stay there more than a day or two at a time - though i have spent several days there as a base.

I miss the usual delights of Italian towns - the ordinary Caffes, mopeds, etc. so i can well understand and hope you did not take my observation as critical at all - quite the contrary.

I think one of the reasons we have such a soft spot for Venice is that on our first visit the hotel room cost $37.50 -:)

Palenque, not at all and thanks for the post. What turns me off about Venice is that to me, it is just too Disneyesque and feels contrived. I prefer places like Bologna which is more residents than tourists.

As for 37.50, these days that will barely buy a few vaporetto rides :-)