Rick Steves vs. Rail Europe(rail passes)
 

I have gone back & forth with this for quite some time, & I've finally decided to purchase our 4 day rail passes from either Rail Europe or the Rick Steves site. After reading about the problems another poster encountered with Rail Europe, I was leaning toward purchasing through the Rick Steves site. Has anyone done this? If so, what was your experience, & how long did it take to receive the passes?

Thanks!

I purchased BritRail passes on the Rick Steves site in 2002. No problems and good service. I think the passes arrived in about a week.

However, since then I've done my research and from experience have learned than railpasses aren't always a bargain. Point-to-point tickets can be cheaper, especially if you can commit to travel dates and times well in advance and can get discount fares on a country's national rail site.

When and where will you be traveling? How many people?

Are you sure you even need a pass? Enter your itinerary on http://www.railsaver.com/railsaver.asp and be sure to click "only if a pass saves me money".

You probably don't even need a pass. Go to the railsaver website and check.

The Railsaver site only compares the price of FULL fare tickets to the price of a railpass, thus making a railpass look like a better deal than it actually is. Discount fares booked well in advance online will be even less.

I have checked the bahn site. It looks like point to point would be more expensive. We are traveling from Frankfurt to Hamburg, Hamburg to Bremen, Hamburg to Berlin, & then Berlin back to Frankfurt. The Bremen trip is a day trip only from Hamburg. We want to travel first class, & we don't want to be tied into any specific times to travel. I've promised my family that I wouldn't schedule everything for this trip...I know that there are discount tickets, but since we aren't purchasing in advance, I don't see how we'd get the discount unless they happen to be available the exact day & time that we are there. From what I've researched, there would only be "anytime" tickets available if we don't pre-book. Any suggestions?

I've bought two passes from Budget Europe Travel Service in Ann Arbor in the past six months. Delivery takes about 3 days. Call 800-441-2387 and discuss your plans with Byron or Linda. They are both very helpful. The website is http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/.

Yes, for traveling 1st class and not being committed to specific departure dates and times, point-to-point tickets would be more expensive than a railpass.

We buy first class rail passes for those same reasons and for us, they are well worth the convenience. We do book seat reservations a day or two before as we prefer to know which carriage to board and that we can sit together - especially when traveling with a small group.

I bought railpasses from Rick Steves a few years ago. They threw in some extras then--a free book, etc. that tipped the scale. Passes arrived as advertised.

In fact, that may be the last time I bought railpasses. The folks on this site have taught me so much about advance purchases (won't work for you this time), regional tickets good for 2-4 people, etc. in Europe that I've changed my ways and traded flexibility (in most cases) and first class carriages for savings.

Another vote for speaking to Byron at BETS..great informtion and service and he'll automatically compare the costs of point-to-points with passes or a combo of the two.

kfusto - I don't understand your comment about worth the convenience. If you still are having to make seat reservations (and pay extra for them in most cases) where's the convenience? It seems to me it's less convenient requiring two steps (1. Buy a pass - 2. Make/buy reservations) when you could simply buy your ticket there.

One does not have to make seat reservations but we do - for the longer segments. Hotel will often take care of this for us so it requires little effort on our part. I have also made seat reservations online and at the station for times when the trains are busy.

For day trips when we do not have bags we just decide where to go and then hop a train and return when we feel like it.

Some people have an issue with the cost of passes but it is an individual choice and we prefer it. We have used Flexipasses on our last 4 trips to Europe.

Last year we traveled with two people who had purchased discounted point to point tickets to save money. They ended up throwing them away when we cut our trip short to Vienna and headed elsewhere and the replacement tickets were pricey. The only cost to us was a 3E seat reservation.

It works for us.

I would think that would be an exception. Most people don't have enough vacation to reschedule their itinerary at whim. It really depends on the country. In Italy, I can't see any advantage to a pass since seats are required on any of the faster trains and the seats cost 15-20E. I think it's the same in other countries for the popular faster trains. In some countries, for some trains, the access of passholders are limited so even if you have a pass, you might not get on that particular train.

We used passes for Italy in 2007 and 2008. Never had issues with reservations and the reservations were less than the cost to buy them on Rail Europe. Also used them for Germany and Austria in 2008, the same ones in fact that we used for Italy so we saved quite a bit by purchasing Flexipasses and using the remaining days. We were also able to choose semi private compartments which we prefer as opposed to general seating. Never encountered a limitation that affected us in any way.

As for scheduling on a "whim" I book our main locations and hotels about a year ahead to get the hotels I prefer. I book our seat reservations for the longer segments upon arrival in Italy - through the hotel concierge as a rule. It required no special effort on my part. We were a group of 8 and wanted to be seated together in Italy, and a group of 4 in Germany and Austria.

I can think of several occasions when we changed day trip locations at the last minute due to weather or other and the passes made it simple. We had planned a trip to Lucca from Rome for example but it was raining there so we looked at what was available and went to Orvieto instead.

It is clear from your comments that you do not believe passes are not a good fit for your style of travel but they work for us - just bought my Flexipasses this morning for our upcoming trip, in 6 months, to Germany and Austria.

You don't need to "pre-book" on 99% of German trains. Just go to the station, get on board, and grab a seat. Seat reservations cost €3. So does a beer.

We got our rail passes through Rick Steves when we went to France, Italy and Greece in 2002. If I remember correctly, our passes were for five days of travel over a 1 or 2 month period. They were $299 each and I ordered them online. Then I received an email from Rick's office saying that the passes were on sale for $199, so we ended up saving $200. With the passes we also received a Thomas Cook Rail Map of Europe and a Eurail Timetable book.

"You don't need to "pre-book" on 99% of German trains."

I just do not think there is a one size fits all answer. We traveled with my senior citizen mother last year in Germany and Austria at the height of the market season. Some of the trains (like Vienna to Salzburg and back) were very full.

We had to worry about her getting on and off the trains as well as handling her luggage in addition to our own. Having a reservation made it easy for us to board in the right door, closest to the seats we had reserved, and get her and the luggage settled with the least amount of hassle. And we did not have to worry about getting everyone situated and then having someone come along who had a reservations for the seats we had chosen and move everyone and every thing to find seats together, perhaps in different carriages.

So those of you who prefer not to book reservations, save your Euro and buy a beer - but there are situations where having a reservation makes life easier for those of us who choose to do so.

>>>We had to worry about her getting on and off the trains as well as handling her luggage in addition to our own. Having a reservation made it easy for us to board in the right door, closest to the seats we had reserved, and get her and the luggage settled with the least amount of hassle. And we did not have to worry about getting everyone situated and then having someone come along who had a reservations for the seats we had chosen and move everyone and every thing to find seats together, perhaps in different carriages.<<<
>>>>but there are situations where having a reservation makes life easier>>>>

A seat reservation yes, but a pass is not a seat reservation. You can easily buy a ticket with a seat reservation without a pass.

>>>I can think of several occasions when we changed day trip locations at the last minute due to weather or other and the passes made it simple.<<<

How would this be any better than walking up and buying your ticket to Orvieto instead of Lucca? It was actually more trouble for you because you had the pass. You had to contact your hotel and request seat reservations and arrange payment, then when you changed your mind you had to request refund of your seats (if you can get a refund since there are deadline issues about reservations) and make other reservations for your new route. Wouldn't it have been much simpler (not to mention cheaper) to just purchase the ticket for where you wanted to go that day?

"It was actually more trouble for you because you had the pass. You had to contact your hotel and request seat reservations and arrange payment, then when you changed your mind you had to request refund of your seats "

First of all, we never have had to "arrange payment". The cost of any train related services are added to the hotel bill IME and settled at checkout. It is not cumbersome as you imply. As for having to contact the hotel, we stop by the concierge when we need a reservation and ask for them to take care of it for us. It is far from being a time consuming task.

No, it was not more trouble in the Lucca versus Orvieto scenario. We did not book seat reservations for the Lucca trip - as I said earlier "I book our seat reservations for the longer segments upon arrival in Italy" We simply went to the station and got on a train to Orvieto. No waiting in line at kiosks or at the window since we did not have to purchase anything. So, no, not simpler to have to stop and buy a ticket. We got on and showed our pass to the conductor when she/he came by.

"A seat reservation yes, but a pass is not a seat reservation. You can easily buy a ticket with a seat reservation without a pass. "

Thank you but I am well aware of the difference.

kfusto,
I wouldn't waste any more time dealing with kybourbon. It seems like her reason for living is to dictate to the entire world that railpasses are a waste and only naive people would waste their money on them. She is incapable of seeing the point of view of others who believe they are worth the added cost for their flexibility and convenience. She also went on a similar crusade against me on another thread when I (GASP!) mentioned that I liked and have used railpasses several times while travelling thru Europe. Some people are best to ignore.

I don't see a problem addressing misconceptions about passes on these threads. People reading threads, asking questions, posting answers/opinions are what it's all about. It makes for better informed travelers to have all views and information. If you read the thread that gatorbill is referring to, it addresses some of these things, but was specifically about Italy/Trenitalia. I didn't go on a crusade against gatorbill, but he obviously felt it was wrong for me to post accurate information. Read the thread to see about tone of posts.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...m#last-comment

If someone makes a statement about passes being economical or convenient and I think differently, then I can ask why they think so or give my opinion so others reading in the future can make a better informed decision. People will learn more about the workings of a pass on a thread like this as a result of all the posts/questions and that benefits everyone. This is a travel board and people should not take posts so personally or get offended when someone ask questions or has a different view.

Gatorbill or kfusto, I am going to buy the passes online at RailEurope because they don't charge shipping. But, I am interested in a seat reservation for the first leg of our trip (from Frankfurt to Hamburg). The train I'd like to take shows that it is a high occupancy train & that seat reservations are recommended. Now, I know our plane might be delayed, or there might be a reason we miss that specific train, but I'd still like to make a reservation. My question is this. Can I make the reservation directly on the Bahn site, or can I make it through RailEurope? Let me know. Thank guys!

kybourbon,
You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but this does not mean that you are free to continually try and force your opinion on others, which is exactly what you've attempted to do here and in the other thread. Just like in that other thread you continually questioned why a person likes railpasses even after being told why. You really need to respect the opinions of others and stop trying to convince everyone that your opinion is the only one that is valid. I'm sure if we look at all your posts we'll see that this is a continuing behavior pattern.

elaine123,
I do not know if you can make train sear reservations before you leave since I always make them as I go. By this I mean that when I arrive at a new city I always go to the train station first and make my seat reservation on the train I’ll be leaving that city in.

elaine123,
It sure looks like you can make your seat reservations ahead of time using the Raileurope website but you can only make them 60 days in advance. See the following link.

http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/po...derrequest.htm

The fee for your Frankfurt to Hamburg train is $11 per seat reservation and they state the following about their seat reservations:

<i>"Your seat reservation is included
This fare includes a pre-assigned seat (reservation) in the requested class of service. Seating is guaranteed. Coach number and seat number will be indicated on your train tickets.

When traveling with other travelers, we do our best to make sure you are seated together.

If you need help with finding your seat, the conductor will be happy to assist you.

If you want to change your schedule, you must exchange your ticket by contacting Rail Europe prior to departure or arranging the exchange locally."</i>

elaine123,
It also looks to me like you can make just seat reservation on the Deutsche Bahn website, refer to the following:

http://www.bahn.de/international/vie...ervation.shtml

<i>It is possible to reserve a seat only, without purchasing a ticket. When booking online, click "Order" next to the desired connection and choose "no ticket, reservation only" on the following screen.

Please note that your reservation will only be retained for 15 minutes after the departure of the train. If you have not taken your seat until then, your reservation will be cancelled and your seat may be taken by other passengers.</i>

<<kybourbon,
You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but this does not mean that you are free to continually try and force your opinion on others, which is exactly what you've attempted to do here and in the other thread. Just like in that other thread you continually questioned why a person likes railpasses even after being told why. You really need to respect the opinions of others and stop trying to convince everyone that your opinion is the only one that is valid. I'm sure if we look at all your posts we'll see that this is a continuing behavior pattern.>>

Thanks for posting that. I was beginning to wonder if kybourbon had singled me out to argue with but I see now that I am in good company.

elaine, last year I used bahn.de to make my seat reservations in advance for busy routes for my Germany/Austria trip. I have an account with them and the site is very easy to use. Trenitalia is a different story and their website is cumbersome, hence I had the hotels make our reservations for us.

Have a great trip and enjoy the convenience of your passes - make sure you read the documentation as were able to ride the local S Bahn, many buses and trams at no charge.

I have gone back & forth with this for quite some time, & I've finally decided to purchase our 4 day rail passes from either Rail Europe or the Rick Steves site. After reading about the problems another poster encountered with Rail Europe, I was leaning toward purchasing through the Rick Steves site. Has anyone done this? If so, what was your experience, & how long did it take to receive the passes?>

Well you are dealing with one and the same - steves ordering is done thru RailEurope whether you realize that or not. RailEurope powers Steves railpass purchases to my knowledge. Steves gets his passes from RailEurope and if you spend $450 or more then there is free shipping - with Steves i believe you always pay - so RE would i think be automatically $15 cheaper.

The problems reported here with RE do not involve railpass purchases but mainly point to point fares.

Thanks for the info kfusto & gatorbill. I don't know if I'm going to make a seat reservation. I'd need 4 reservations & that would be almost $50. We may just take our chances & take a later train...There's a train we can take that's only 50 minutes later...

Palenque,
Naturally I cannot speak for everyone, but luckily for me I've purchased passes from RailEurope on four different occasions and never had issues with them.

elaine123,
You're welcome and I hope you have a wonderful time in Europe.

Regardless of whatever rail pass or ticket you have or do not have, you can make reservations for German Rail trains on bahn.de website for €5 (not €3 which is only true when you also buy the ticket at bahn.de website, but still much less than $11) without having to purchase a ticket.
Reservations which get recommended on bahn.de's website usually refer to 2nd class, which can get quite cramped during peak travel times. 1st class is much less effected by this.
As you mentioned: You don't know how fast or how slow you will clear immigration and get your luggage in Frankfurt, it may be the easiest way to simply go to the airport's train station once you got your stuff and board the next train to Hamburg.

I didn't read all the messages in this thread, but I'll cast a vote for Rick Steve's. They're a great resource and very helpful. And generally they do throw in extras.

elaine123,

Earlier you wrote <i>I've promised my family that I wouldn't schedule everything for this trip..</i> Now it's <i>I don't know if I'm going to make a seat reservation. </i> I think you are leaning in the right direction. $44 plus P+H is a pile of money in my wallet. Unless you absolutely have to get the train you want AND it is on a Sunday evening or a Friday don't make reservations, either here or over there. If you do it over there it will be less than half the price of Rail Europe, unless the dollar continues to dump against the euro.

I have also used Rail Europe a number of times in the past for rail passes. No complaints whatever. It is an honorable company. I switched to B.E.T.S because of the really great personal service from Byron and Linda. They have a good travel planning guide also. It seems that Steves and B.E.T.S. are retail outlets for rail passes, which are all issued by Rail Europe. I think it is the same setup for Brit Rail passes. For those who know, please check me if I am wrong.

I think it is the same setup for Brit Rail passes. For those who know, please check me if I am wrong.>

not BritRail Passes - BritRail is a product of ACP Rail, a major competitor of Rail Europe, based in Quebec - Rail Europe gets their BritRail Passes TMK from ACP Rail (a k a BritRail).

ACP also issues Eurailpasses which are marketed by the Eurail Committee (? exact term?), which i think is based in Utrecht, Holland (also home of the Dutch Railways)

Eurail Committee sells Eurailpasses to several U.S. outlets, the two major ones of which are RailEurope and ACP Rail. To confuse matters more RailEurope actually is the originator of some one-country and two-country passes i believe. Prices for passes are supposed to be universal, but mailing and handling fees can be added on - like i believe Steves does with a obligatory mailing fee whereas others may not.

Whether an outlet gets their passes from RailEurope or ACP Rail to the consumer means little as they still are Eurailpasses, backed up by the Eurail gnomes in Utrecht, Holland.

One last question...Do we get our passes validated before we get on the train, or by a conductor after we get on the train?

Validate before you get on a train. Read all the small print on your pass and envelope when you get it.

We usually just stop at the station at our arrival airport and have it validated. There is a fine that can be imposed if you do not validate prior to boarding your first train.

Have fun!

Thanks to everyone. I ordered my passes tonight! Three weeks to go.

the only exceptions to the validate the railpass at a ticket window before boarding your first train are:

1- if you are coming into a country that you pass is valid on on a train from another country not on your pass - then the conductor validates the pass on the train for you - so you need not get off the train to do so

2- if you have your pass pre-validated by the agent who issues it - this would be of interest to folks who have a tight connection after landing and do not want to risk waiting in long lines to validate it or folks on a Eurail Saverpass where the persons on the pass are not arriving together and one person may want to use the pass by themself before the other person joins them - agents who issue passes can validate them for you - and in some of the railpass specials the deal requires advance validation when issued. One validated the pass however is no longer refundable.

I would just like to mention that last Sunday my DH and I took the TGV to Stuttghart, then changed to the ICE for Munich.
On board were two American fellows who ended up in a 15 minute long argument with the 2 train conductors over not having their tickets validated before boarding in Paris. They absolutely refused to pay any fine and said they did not see the "validation requirement" in the fine print.
They won the argument as I found out when I spoke to them at Munich station about our tight connection - when I booked it gave about a 9 minute gap between the TGV arriving and the ICE departing. This did not seem a problem as last year we changed trains for Frankfurt and simply stood right where we got off and the next train pulled in.
Not this time. Got off at Platform 2 and ran like people possessed to platform 16! The doors were closing but my DH pulled them back. More drama with a little Japanese lady and her baby getting jammed in the doors! Finally we all fell inside and the train pulled off.
Any advice on this NEVER EVER happening to me again would be greatly appreciated!