"Saver fare tickets aren't refundable, so buy a railpass instead.">

Never said that and you know it. I did say, falsely as it turns out that Saver fares for German trains were non-changeable non-refundable - it turns out they are not changeable but are refundable for a 19 euro cancellation fee - now on a 29 euro fare which is better to mistakingly say they are non-refundable or never mention anything at all about restrictions on refunds?

A 19 euro cancellation fee for a typical 29 euro fare is yes refundable but almost a full forfeit.

I never said since Saver fares are non-refundable buy a railpass - I just point out that if someone wants a fully flexible ticket then a railpass is just that - hop on any train anytime and then if that is the case yes just a few such inter-city train trips would make the pass a good deal. I also point out that such saver fares are sold in limited numbers and to guarantee should be booked far in advance - they could be available right up until near the train but often sell out way early.

I never ever said however: "Saver fare tickets aren't refundable, so buy a railpass instead."> And that is a bald-faced lie and Russ knows it.

"A 19 euro cancellation fee for a typical 29 euro fare is yes refundable but almost a full forfeit."

Why insist on proving that you are the most incorrigible and shameless of prevaricators?

The cancellation fee is €15.
The cancellation fee is €15.
The cancellation fee is €15.

Now I've told you at least 4 times. Read it here:

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/DEU/en/pr...ngs-fare.shtml

And just what is a "typical" €29 fare?

Here's the headline at the DB saver fare page:

"Buy DB Bahn’s ongoing Germany specials from as little as 29 euros!"

In other words, €29 is not "typical" at all - it's the VERY LOWEST possible fare - a "come-on" price - for long-distance (250+ Km) travel - so it's a low-ball price that most buyers probably do not pay because the lowest price sells out fairly quickly. Yet you see that as a perfect example to throw out to justify the total falsehood that saver fares are non-refundable, when someone paying €49 for a saver fare gets €34 refunded, and someone paying €100 for a saver fare in fact gets €85 refunded.

Are you also the PR man who created the euphemism, "Affordable Care Act"?? It's just so tragically inaccurate and deceptive to play these numbers games you play.

"I never ever said however: "Saver fare tickets aren't refundable, so buy a railpass instead."

NO, not in those exact words - that was a paraphrase from me, and an accurate one. You were obviously promoting a railpass (as you routinely do almost irrespective of circumstances) and to bolster your suggestion, you put forth the complete falsehood that saver fares are not refundable.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rhine-card.cfm

Exact text of your comments; read:

"If taking a handful of longish train trips like between regions as you seem to do the German (Twin if traveling in pairs) Railpass costs about 29 euros a day and allows complete flexibility to hop any train anytime with a very few exceptions that you will never encounter (ICE Sprinter trains require a supplement and reservation I believe but there are very few on these, mainly designed for commuting business types early in the morning I think)

And the German Pass is 100% valid on KD boats on the Rhine (except dinner cruises) and on the Mosel Koblenz to Cochem.

a series of discounted 29 or 39 euro tickets means booking weeks in advance to get these limited in number ducats that are train-specific and cannot be changed nor refunded - yet the pass allows you to hop any train anytime - just pop into the station and jump on board."

€49 for a saver fare gets €34 refunded, and someone paying €100 for a saver fare in fact gets €85 refunded>

Well if someone is doing more 100 euro for a saver fare - just two of those would be more than a 4-day unlimited travel pass - for 49 euro fares - 3 or 4 of those may cost more than a railpass and have the severe restrictions that come with them.

Thanks for bolstering the call for a pass - I thought 29 euro or 39 euro tickets were routinely available but you, the expert, says no - all the more reason to investigate the cost of a totally flexible pass with savings fares - unless you save a significant amount go for the pass as Russ' figures on how much savings fares tickets can cost - so again if doing more than a few trips look at the pass, something that Russ never ever mentions and then scolds me for doing so.

More info the better - in all my responses I always try to also mention the savings fares and restrictions (something Russ seems never to mention when presenting them as a panacea) and the pass and let the person decide. I do say if the savings is only a few euros go for the flexibility of a pass, which can also be used as valuable urban transport on S-Bahns the same day your use a pass.

PQ: Saver fares "cannot be changed nor refunded."

Patently untrue. No refund = no money back.

If you return a pair of tennis shoes you bought online for $50 plus $10 shipping and you have to ship them back, you get back $50 and have a net loss of $20. Same idea. But THAT DOES NOT MEAN THE SHOES ARE NOT REFUNDABLE. Not that I expect you to understand the logic here.

"Well if someone is doing more 100 euro for a saver fare - just two of those would be more than a 4-day unlimited travel pass"

Nor do I expect you to understand that if someone only needs one good $50 pair of shoes, he should not buy 2, or 3, or 4 pair. If a trip involves a week in Munich, and a week in Berlin, a €100 ticket for that trip to Berlin is a real bargain over the price of a walk-up ticket (€130 min.) or a railpass (€193), and those would indeed be the traveler's only alternatives if he is buying close to the date of travel and the cheaper tickets (€29) have already sold out.

The fact is that there are MANY circumstances where travelers are NOT criss-crossing Germany on several trips and saver fares - even €100 tickets bought close to the travel date - are a great deal.

If the same guy above does a day trip to Potsdam and a day trip to Füssen, he doesn't need a 3-day railpass. He needs a Bayern ticket (€23 single) and a VBB ticket (€7) on top of his €100 saver fare ticket for a total of €130. Recommending a railpass to this guy would be like recommending (3) €50 pairs of shoes, when what he needs 1 $50 pair of shoes, 1 pair of $20 sandals, and a pair of $10 slippers. But I'm sure you don't get that either.

"..if doing more than a few trips look at the pass, something that Russ never ever mentions..."

You'll have no trouble proving this also to be untrue if you wish to search my posts - I have indeed recommended railpasses on occasions when they make good sense.

One situation where I've done that recently involved a short stay with 2 very long trips - and the first long trip was right after a potentially delayed international flight which would have jeopardized catching that train from the airport station. But situations that call for a railpass these days tend to be very few in number, in part because the alternatives to railpasses are so attractive.

"Never ever" is untrue here, PQ, and it is almost always untrue, no matter the topic. If you have a genuine concern for the truth, don't utter such phrases.

Peace! Let's start new... you're a great resource and we both bring different things to the table - thanks for correcting my sincere mistakes.