Revised itinerary for Switzerland – have I come up with a better plan?
 

Hello again –

I think I have a much more do-able, if longer (30-day), itinerary for Switzerland than my initial proposal. Many thanks to all of you who already commented! I’m confident that my trip will be immeasurably better as a result of the helpful and thoughtful information that so many of you generously shared.

To briefly recap, I’m a woman who will be traveling solo and using a Swiss Pass. I enjoy art, architecture, museums, churches, parks and gardens, natural scenery, castles, markets, picturesque villages, and good food and wine. (I should definitely enjoy Switzerland!) I don’t mind relocating every night or so, and often find benefits to doing so. I want to take some relatively easy walks or hikes, but am otherwise not seeking outdoor activies. My goal is to have as diverse a range of experiences as possible.

Those who are interested can find my initial thread at:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...to-25-days.cfm

My proposed route may seem a bit odd, but I’m trying to work within a few constraints. Specifically, I want to:
• fly into Geneva before May 27;
• fly out of Zurich;
• ensure that I visit cities when the museums I most want to visit are open;
• make sure that my time in the Upper Engadine is after the seasonal opening of the funicular to Muottas Muralg; and
• maximize my chances of seeing wildflowers in the Bernese Oberland (or should I be seeking to maximize my chance of seeing wildflowers in the Engadine instead??? Which of these two regions should I aim to see first?)

I think this plan meets these goals as well as possible, but please feel free to suggest alternatives!

So here’s my current plan:

Day 1: Arrive in and begin exploring Geneva (night in Geneva)

Day 2: Begin to recover from jet lag, explore Geneva, move on to Lausanne (night in Lausanne) … (I know it would be VERY easy to skip an overnight in Lausanne! At least for now, though, I want to spend a night there, even if it means an unnecessary relocation. You have my permission to call my crazy.)

Day 3: Explore Lausanne and the Lavaux wine terraces; move on to Vevey or Montreux (1st of 2 nights in Vevey or Montreaux) (I know! ANOTHER unnecessary move!)

Day 4: Visit the Chateau Chillon (walking along the lake to get there) and Rochers-de-Naye (where I look forward to sitting for a while to savor the view)

Day 5: Take the train to Gstaad (just to see the scenery en route), spend an hour or so in Gstaad (since I’m there), and then move on to Gruyeres (night in Gruyeres)

Day 6: When I’ve finished visiting Gruyeres, move on to Fribourg (night in Fribourg)

Day 7: Visit Neuchatel’s Latenium and Solothurn on my way to Basel (1st of 2 nights in Basel)

Day 8: Explore Basel

Day 9: When I’m ready to leave Basel, move on to Lucerne—the only place in Switzerland that I have already visited (night in Lucerne)

Day 10: Leave Lucerne for Ascona (1st of 2 nights in Ascona)

Day 11: Explore Ascona, Locarno, etc.

Day 12: Visit Bellinzona on my way to Lugano (1st of 2 nights in Lugano)

Day 13: Explore Lugano

Day 14: Take the Bernina Express as far as Samedan and then go to Mustair (night in Mustair)

Day 15: Visit Mustair and move on to Guarda (1st of 2 nights in Guarda)

Day 16: Begin exploring the Lower Engadine: Guarda, Ardez, Scuol, etc.
• If either Day 16 or 17 is a clear day, I’ll visit Muottas Muralg (the funicular should be open by this time). I may be able to change my arrangements for accommodation, and if not, I can always backtrack.

Day 17: Continue exploring the Lower Engadine, and then relocate to Zuoz or Pontresina (1st of 3 nights).

Day 18-19: Explore the Upper Engadine. My priorities include Muottas Muralg and nearby lakes, valleys, and villages

Day 20: Go to Bern, making sure to take a train that goes through Samedan and Thusis so I can see the Albula Pass, etc. (1st of 2 nights in Bern).
• BTW, I realize that I could see Bern between Fribourg and Basel, but I want to have at least city-and-museum fix between my two blocks of time in mountainous areas.

Day 21: Explore Bern

Day 22: Head to Lauterbrunnen, possibly stopping in Thun en route (1st of 4 nights in Lauterbrunnen) (I’m hoping I’ll feel cozily ensconced at the base of the mountains rather than oppressed by them. I think I’ve found a room that has a view down the valley!)

Days 23-25: Explore the Bernese Oberland. My priorities include Schilthorn, Schynige Platte, Staubachfalle and Trummelbachfalle, Kleine Scheidegg, Brienz and its outdoor museum, and various walks and villages in the area. I’ll decide what to do each day after hearing the weather forecasts.

Day 26: Go to Zurich (1st of 4 nights in Zurich)

Days 27-29: Explore Zurich (and Winterthur)

Day 30: Flight to the US

Any and all comments are welcome!

BTW, this particular plan means that I’ll skip a number of places that originally made it to my high-priority list, such as Zermatt, Sion, Chur, Appenzell, St. Gallen’s, Schaffhausen, and Stein-am-Rhein. (St. Gallen's and the Appenzell were probably the hardest to forego.) At this point, I’d say that much as I’d like to see these places, I’d feel worse if I missed the places that remain on my list. But nothing is written in stone, so feel free to offer counterpoints!

I’d also welcome recommendations for restaurants and/or foods. As a rule, I don’t eat lunch, but I definitely enjoy my evening meals. I want to sample local foods and, as a foodie-wanna-be (if only I could afford to be the real thing!), I’ll probably splurge on a a few dinners along the way. I’ve been taking some notes from guidebooks, trip reports, and other sources, and will welcome your input on regional specialties and restaurants throughout the price spectrum.

Thanks so much!

Yeah, I see you like to move around. Geneve, Lausanne, then Montreux? You can easily get to any of these places upon landing, and you can visit other places using frequent trains. Near Neuchatel is a charming town and a lake of Murten. I think you realized that you are spending several days in Geneve and Zurich which is probably keep you from including other hard to drop destinations. The way I see this type of trade-off is that Geneve and Zurich are trivial to include in future trips, but not so with others. In this case, I prioritize harder to visit places first, and usually I end up visiting gateway cities like Geneve or Zurich without even trying in the future.

Just a note on the train travel part - as you are moving around a lot I think a one-month Swiss Pass is a no-brainer - as said in other thread covers nearly every conveyance you will be taking - lake boats - do not miss taking a lake boat ride on Lake Lucerne, Lake Geneva or Lake Lugano or Thun or Brienz, etc. Passes also good on city trams, buses - practically everything that moves in Switzerland.

Again great sources for planning the rail part and about passes check out these superb sites - www.swisstravelsystem.com (has links to Glacier Express site and other specialty train sites like the Bernina Express); www.sbb.ch - Swiss Railways official site for schedules and fares to compare with the pass (key point of pass is you can just hop on virtually any train, postal bus, lake boat, etc. And I always find myself using the pass actually more than I planned on); http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html; and www.ricksteves.com.

<Day 20: Go to Bern, making sure to take a train that goes through Samedan and Thusis so I can see the Albula Pass, etc. (1st of 2 nights in Bern)>

If you go from St Moritz there is no way to go by rail other than via the Albula Pass/Loops - the only other way out would be to take the Maloja Pass bus to Lugano and take a train to Zurich (change there for Bern).

(I know it would be VERY easy to skip an overnight in Lausanne! At least for now, though, I want to spend a night there, even if it means an unnecessary relocation. You have my permission to call my crazy.)>

No not crazy - I too like to relocate and spend the whole day and night in a town rather than day tripping in - though for utilitarian reasons I often do that - say base in Vevey for the whole time - but I understand your desire and Lausanne is a very very nice town - most folks prefer smaller more old-worldish Montreux or Vevey but you will be there too.
Try to walk along the lake to the Chateau Chillon! Or take a boat there - nice to approach it from the water, this castle built on the water!

➢ greg

Thanks for commenting!

I definitely hear your point about Geneva and Zurich – they are, indeed, cities that I might end up in again in the future, since they have major transportation hubs. Something to think about!


➢ PalenQ

I will most certainly and without question get a Swiss Pass and I will enjoy the tremendous freedom it gives me to take multiple forms of transportation and to enter museums and other places without reaching into my wallet. I promise! Thanks for making sure I don’t miss all the opportunities it presents.

I’m still debating which stretches I’ll do by boat rather than train, but at the very least, I do plan to get out onto the water in multiple locations.

Thanks for confirming my understanding of the trains through the Albula Pass – I want to make absolutely sure to ride that stretch of track!

To visit Chateau de Chillon, I’m looking forward to going one way by boat and one way by foot. Is there an order you recommend? Otherwise, I’ll choose once I’m there and see what the weather and light are like.

Day 14 involves a lot of travel on train/bus: almost 9 hours. According to the schedules on www.sbb.ch you'll take a regional train from Tirano to Pontresina (not the Express, but that's fine) and change there for the train to Zernez, where you change for the bus to Müstair.

I would pick Pontresina, not Zuoz as base for the Upper Engadine - more centrally located for excursions.

You could still do a day trip to St. Gallen or Appenzell from Zürich on Day 28 or so e.g.

Sounds better than your first itinerary.

To visit Chateau de Chillon, I’m looking forward to going one way by boat and one way by foot. Is there an order you recommend?>

can't see how it could matter - myself I would walk out with the spector of the famous castle of Lord Byron links anticipatorily looming in the distance - a goal. But really makes little difference.

➢ ingo

OMG, after all the information that you and PalenQ so patiently and kindly shared with me about the Bernina Express, did I still get it wrong? SO sorry!

So here’s what I’ve come to believe so far. I do hope you’ll continue to help me understand!

a) When I checked the Rhaetian Railway site for the Bernina Express, I saw an option from Lugano (10:00) to Tirano and then on to Samedan (arriving at 16:24). Switching to the sbb web site, I saw a way to get from Samedan (17:14) to Mustair (19:20). That’s the 9.5 hour trip I was considering because I thought it might be most scenic AND because I thought it would include trains (and/or buses) with panoramic windows on the most scenic stretch(es). It would obviously be a very long travel day, but I figured I’d rather have a very, very long trip with easily seen breathtaking scenery than a very long (if somewhat shorter) trip without it. And even with this longest route, I should still get to Mustair before sunset and in time to check in and have a decent meal.

b) Using the sbb web site, I saw an option from Lugano to Mustair in just over 6 hours (e.g., leaving at 11:12 and arriving at 17:20). When I looked at the routing information for that train, my impression was that it does not go throught the Bernina Pass, and so would not be as scenic as the other options I identifed, but I could easily be mistaken (about either the route or the merits of the scenery).

c) And on that same sbb web site, when I added either Tirano or Poschiavo, I saw an option that would take about 8.5 hours (leaving Lugano at 10:00 and arriving in Mustair at 18:20), so it should include the atretch from Tirano to Pontresina, which I’ve read (perhaps in error), is considered particularly scenic. I think this train would use more-or-less the same track as that identified under route (a), but without the option of panoramic windows.

d) There’s another option routed through Tirano that appears to go through Milan. It takes more time than any of the agove – about 9’45”, so I’m not considering it.

So, if I now understand correctly, I can choose to make this leg of my trip as quickly as I can (option b) or as scenically as I can (option a) or save a bit of time (about an hour) for a bit more limited opportunity to see the scenery (no panoramic windows – option c). Is that right?

To be honest, an extra hour for better views doesn’t seem unreasonable to me, particularly if I’m already committed to at least 8.5 hours in transit AND will still be able to reach my destination before sunset and in time for dinner. On the other hand, I wouldn’t want to spend an hour in the confinement of transportation unnecessarily. In early June, how much difference might the panoramic windows make? Are there other issues I should take into consideration?


• I would pick Pontresina, not Zuoz as base for the Upper Engadine

Good to hear, especially because I haven’t yet found suitable accommodations in Zuoz, but did find a place in Pontresina – the Hotel Rosatsch. Do you know it?

Is Pontresina one of the places where one can ensure that one’s arrival by train is coordinated with a bus if one knows exactly what to specify when consulting the sbb web site (like Guarda, where one would—I think, if I read your notes correctly—need to specify “Guard cumün”)? Is the “cumün” the operative word elsewhere in Switzerland?
(I’m so glad I saw that comment of yours about Guarda!)

(BTW, I’ve been finding your photographs and commentaries on various places throughout Switzerland both helpful and inspiring. Thanks so much for directing me to your web pages!)


• You could still do a day trip to St. Gallen or Appenzell from Zürich on Day 28 or so

Great idea! At first glance, it seems like I might even be able to combine St. Gallen with Winterthur in a single day trip from Zurich – that might work out very well for me!


• Sounds better than your first itinerary.

I know my first itinerary was pretty bad, but I take this remark as a good sign! You’ve been a tremendous source of much appreciated information. ☺ ☺


➢ PalenQ

Thanks for confirming that I can visit the Chateau de Chillon by foot or boat in either order. I suspected as much, but wanted to confirm – you never know when it makes a difference!

BTW, I hope that you (and Ingo and others) will tell me if I should seek a particular side (left or right) of the various trains, buses, and boats I’ll be taking. I’m not a betting person, but if I were, I’d bet that you have paid attention to this kind of detail in your many train journeys through Europe!

And to call on some of that knowledge….
• Boat or train from Geneva to Lausanne?
• Boat or train from Lausanne to Vevey/Montreux? I’m thinking boat, so I can see the Lavaux wine terraces from the water…

Thanks again!

Thanks for the kind words, kja.

You're totally right about the options to get from Lugano to Müstair. What I meant is that right after your arrival in Tirano a regional train (without panoramic windows) runs to Pontresina. I thought you would not want to spend more time than necessary in Tirano.

(Side note: To explore the town - centor storico - you just follow the signs, it's nothing special IMO, just typical Italian ambience with a church or two, definitely not enough time to visit the museum in the palazzo. And the walk to the other important sight in Tirano - pilgrim church Basilica Madonna di Tirano - takes at least 15 minutes one way. You'll see its exterior from the train anyway.)

On the other hand, you could always have lunch in Tirano right on the small square by the train station - did that myself and it was ok. Pizza, local red wine, water, coffee. Inexpensive.

I personally favour the traditional regional trains over the Express train with panoramic windows - you can open these windows and take better photos (no reflexions). Also, if it is a sunny and hot day the sun may actually be too much in the panoramic cars (despite A/C). So, I would choose option c). Of course, this would also mean you have to wait between trains another 50 minutes in Samedan.

The regional train - option c) - takes the absolute same route that the Express train - option a) - does. Same views.

I forgot the question about the hotel and transfer, sorry.

Hotel Rosatsch is a very good choice. Haven't been there lately, but only heard good things. Bathrooms may be a little outdated, though, but clean. Ask for an upgrade if you're not happy with your room - it's shoulder season and this should be no problem.

As for transfer - the train station is located below the village. Bus transfer is not as well timed as from Guarda station to Guarda cumün. BUT - Hotel Rosatsch and most others offer free mini bus/van transfer from/to the train station. Just call ahead (from Lugano, I'd say) and tell them when you'll arrive. The closest bus stop to Hotel Rosatsch is "Pontresina, Rondo" (tourist office), the Rosatsch is a stone's throw up the main street.

And the walk to the other important sight in Tirano - pilgrim church Basilica Madonna di Tirano - takes at least 15 minutes one way. You'll see its exterior from the train anyway.)>

and if you do want to see it and can wheel your luggage around then walk to it and there is a small train station or platform near it to board the regional trains up and over the Bernina Pass.

Boat or train from Geneva to Lausanne?

well that I think is a long long boat ride and scenery about the same after a while - I'd take the train unless I had loads of time - on a nice sunny day these boats can be so so relaxing however.

Boat or train from Lausanne to Vevey/Montreux? I’m thinking boat, so I can see the Lavaux wine terraces from the water…>

Yes boat would be sweet as it is a short ride and you reason for seeing the shore is a good one. A third way between Lausanne and Vevey and I think Montreux is via trolley bus (Swiss Passes valid on them like anything else that maoves in Switzerland).

As for which side of trains to sit on one line that pops up is the Bernina Pass rail line where most of the awesome scenery is on the west side of the tracks - the glaciers - Alpine lakes, etc.

If you take the fancy official Bernina Express you will probably be stuck in one seat on a typically full or fairly full train that caters a lot to tour groups - especially Germans IME.

Thus I prefer to take the hourly or so local trains that go over the same rails with yes the same exact scenery as these are rarely full and often half empty so I can jiggle from one side to the other as scenery dictates.

I’m still debating which stretches I’ll do by boat rather than train, but at the very least, I do plan to get out onto the water in multiple locations.>

The nice thing about Swiss lake boats is that nearly every dock is it seems close to a train or bus station - postal buses usually running where trains do not - postal buses fan out from train stations - like at Pontresina discussed above. So if you tire of the boat or need to pick up speed it is easy to change plans en route, like say from Geneva to Lausanne.

We really enjoyed our stay in Pontresina and stayed at La Collina. They have another less expensive lodging on the property, Soldanella . Two of our party were celebrating birthdays and they had a special way of singing the birthday song. The town is quaint with the painted stucco buildings. We had our best meal in Switzerland at the Hotel Kronenhof's Stube. We also thought the Thai restaurant at La Collina was exceptional; it was packed the night we dined there so reservations are a good idea.

I, for one, love Lausanne and don't understand why it is overlooked so often. The flowers along the lake are beautiful and the old city up the hill is scenic too. I'm so glad you're going there and ---- have a wonderful trip. You can't go wrong in Switzerland (plus I envy you)!

Such a wealth of helpful information! I do love Fodor's forums.

➢ Ingo

A 50-minute stop in Samedan doesn’t sound so bad. I’m sure I’ll be ready to get into the fresh air by then, and from what I can tell, it has a left-luggage office. And that means that if the trains are on time and the weather is decent, I might even be able to walk around unencumbered for 20 minutes or so and still have plenty of time to check and reclaim my suitcase and find my way to the right place for my train to Mustair.

Thanks for letting me know which stop to take for the Hotel Rosatsch, sharing what you know of the hotel, and mentioning the hotel’s minibus/van option – I will definitely check into that, in Pontresina and elsewhere!

➢ Ingo and
➢ PalenQ

You each provide compelling arguments against the Bernina Express and for the regional trains along the same lines. I am convinced! I will take the regional trains! (And I really appreciate the patience with which you have walked me through my options.) Once I get to Tirano, I will take the next regional train to Samedan.

➢ PalenQ

With your help, I now have a plan for transportation in the area around Lake Geneva:
• Train from Geneva to Lausanne;
• Before leaving Lausanne, use the train and/or trolley for a short visit to the wine terraces, including (if time permits) walking through the terraces a bit;
• Boat from Lausanne to Vevey/Montreux;
• Walk to the Chateau de Chillon and return by boat (or vice versa, if the weather is not auspicious for walking there).
Sounds wonderful!

I will plan to seek a seat to the west side while riding the regional trains along the Bernina Pass rails.

And I will savor the freedom my Swiss Pass gives me to travel by train or boat or whatever whenever – quite a luxury!

One last thing – thanks so much for the bounces! They can sometimes widen the net quite a bit. :-)

➢ HappyTrvlr

Thanks so much for the Pontresina recommendations! I will definitely check these places out. Were there any dishes at the Hotel Kronenhof’s Stube that you particularly enjoyed?

➢ catcrazyaf

I’m glad to hear your enthusiastic praise for Lausanne - thanks for sharing it! Are there any restaurants there that you would urge me to consider? I do feel very fortunate - as you say, I really can't go wrong with a trip to Switzerland!

P.S. I didn’t mean to be the cause of envy and hope that green is one of your better colors. ;-)

Bring LOTS of money as it is ridiculously expensive!The airline that I work for flies there and although the crews love Switzerland the trips go very junior as we find that we go through money like crazy.Things like a brat and beer in Zurich cost around $18 USD?

Yes bring everything you can in from outside Switzerland to avoid sticker shock on things like shampoo, aspirins, toiletires, etc.

Before leaving Lausanne, use the train and/or trolley for a short visit to the wine terraces, including (if time permits) walking through the terraces a bit;>

There are similar wine terraces above Montreux and I have walked up and down thru them - a train also goes up to a station on top of the cliff and you can walk down - this is part of the Golden Pass train route that you may want to take if going east towards the Interlaken/Bern areas - one of Switzerland's legendary specialty scenic trains.

➢ Dutyfree and
➢ PalenQ

The costs are definitely on the daunting side. As someone who has always traveled closer to the budget end than not, I’ve found it a bit unsettling at moments. But at least I knew that Switzerland would be expensive when I began planning, and for better or worse, I made the decision to go despite the expense.

I think my biggest challenge when it comes to costs will be dinners: I love to relax over an evening meal, and I love to have a few glasses of wine with said meal, and I love to eat well-prepared variants of regional cuisines made with local ingredients, and I prefer to do so in a pleasant setting, … – and all of that typically means a meal that might be a bit more expensive than is otherwise available. But not always! And I do plan to splurge for dinner at least a few times. So any suggestions anyone has will be much appreciated.

➢ PalenQ

More welcome info!

Is the cliff above Montreux the Roches-de-Naye? I definitely plan to visit that spot – the views sound magnificent! I hadn’t considered walking down. Can you tell me more about that--how long it would likely take, how easy/hard, etc.?

When I leave Montreux, I’ll be heading to Gruyeres, but had planned go through Gstaad “en route” (I know its actually out of the way) just for the scenery. (I believe I got that idea from you!) That is the Golden Pass train route, isn’t it? Do you recommend a particular side of the train for the trip from Montreux to Gstaad? Or from Gstaad to Gruyeres?

I just checked into options for stopping at Roches-de-Naye as part of that trip, but if I’m reading the SBB site correctly, trains from Montreux to Gstaad don’t stop at Roches-de-Naye, so I’ll probably visit it separately after visiting the Chateau de Chillon. But maybe you mean a different cliff?

kja - yes, I love the color green! You don't even want to know how long ago I was in Lausanne - just after my college years, about 1968. That tells you what an impression it made on me. Every so often I play on the internet and "plan" a revisit there. So that's what I did for several hours again last nite - difficult to find an apartment there (I would base in Lausanne for a couple of weeks and wander and day-trip from there). I WILL get there again one day. So obviously, I have no restaurant suggestions for you but I just have to say that the beauty of the area and the city itself still makes my heart smile. I do wish you the very best trip. Every place I have been in Switzerland has been gorgeous and I'll try to restrain my envy. By the way, there is a poster on Tripadvisor named swandav (I think) who seems to be a Swiss expert and seems like she must have lived in Lausanne or Lac Lamen area - she's a wealth of helpful information. Go over there and ask a question or two. I'll be looking forward to hearing your adventures.

P.S. Just an additional thought!!!! Should I pack my suitcase and join you? (Written in jest).

➢ catcrazyaf

I hope you return to Lausanne some day and that you enjoy the moments you spend thinking of doing so. In the meantime, you are welcome to travel with me vicariously, and I promise to raise a glass of wine to you while in Lausanne. (Your feet probably won’t be hurting as much at that moment as mine!)

BTW, swandav is also a Fodorite. I was pleased that she offered some comments on the first draft of these plans. So many people have offered such helpful input!

Is the cliff above Montreux the Roches-de-Naye? I definitely plan to visit that spot – the views sound magnificent! I hadn’t considered walking down. Can you tell me more about that--how long it would likely take, how easy/hard, etc.?>

Not the same rail route I am referring to - I believe the Rochers-de-Naye train runs a lot in tunnels, perhaps under the vineyards - the line I am talking about is the one that goes to Gstaad - the Golden Pass line - from Montreux you can take local trains up to a station right above the top of the vineyards and waltz back down to Montreux - lovely Lake Geneva if full view the whole zigzagging and stepped way down.

Not sure what Rochers-de-Naye trains shows you as I have not taken it but from that summit it could be a seriously hike down - don't know!

Hi all,

Came back here to see what progress you've been making on your plans. Looks like you have some good ideas going!! Some thoughts --

It takes an hour for the train to reach Rochers-de-Naye from Montreux, so the walk back downhill would take about 4-5 hours, at least, I think. There are lots of hikes you can take starting from R-d-N, if you think you have the time for that.

To go to the Rochers-de-Naye, you take a cogwheel train up to Caux and then to R-de-N. It is a different route entirely to go on the Golden Pass line -- that goes via Les Avants. You can see this easily using google maps.

Yes, the trip to Gstaad and Gruyeres is on the Golden Pass route, one of the two best scenic routes in Switzerland imo. You change at Montbovon to get to/from Gruyeres. It's clear on the Swiss rail site. There are no luggage lockers at Gruyeres or at Montbovon, so you may have to ship your cases at that point. Or, there is a coat cloak room at the cheese demonstration building next to the train station, and you could ask if you can leave your bag/s there (but it's not secure).

The scenery is better walking from Montreux toward Chillon rather than the reverse; as you go towards Chillon, your views will be all lake and mountain and countryside. The scenery as you walk toward Montreux is urban, as you walk toward the built-up town. So, I would definitely plan to walk TO Chillon.

catcrazy -- hi!! What a small world. Wanna know something?? I was in Montreux in 1968 (but I was only 13 . . ). I remember clearly the Jazz Fest in 1968. Bizarre, eh? Yes, it leaves a **huge** impression. I was there in boarding school, and because of that I now go back practically every year for two weeks. I always go in the fall to see the changing leaves. If you do make it back, and it's in the fall, definitely get in touch.

Have fun, y'all!

s

You won't have enough time to hike down from Rochers-de-Naye. It's a 1,600 m elevation difference, takes about 4 hours, I'd say. And it's not worth the effort.

The train stop PalenQ refers to is probably Chernex, maybe Les Avants - but the latter is already relatively high up above the vineyards. A nice start for a hike down would be Caux or Glion, both stops on the train route up to Rochers-de-Naye.

I found the vineyards above Vevey more attractive for walks. An excellent viewpoint is Les Pleiades, accessible by train from Vevey. One stop along that route is Blonay, from there start nice walks down through the vineyards. Or take the funicular from Vevey up to Mont Pèlerin. The middle station Chardonne is also a good place to start a walk through the vineyards.

Great minds think along, swandav ;-)

Oh, dear. I should have realized that the cliff PalenQ mentioned was not the Rochers-de-Naye! My mistake. Many thanks to all of you for clarifying and for confirming that the walk from R-d-N would take too long for my purposes.

It seems that I’ll have a number of delightful options for pleasant downhill vineyard walks that I can choose on the fly, given the weather and the amount of time I devote to other priorities. I sincerely appreciate all the suggestions!


➢ PalenQ

Now that I have a better idea of what you meant, I can see why you recommended it! Thanks so much for mentioning it … and for putting up with my confusion.


➢ swandav

Thanks for checking back in! It’s reassuring to hear that you see some good ideas in my current plan. I’ve been the beneficiary of some truly wonderful advice from you and so many others, and I think my plan is much better (and getting better each day) as a result.

I plan on staying overnight in Gruyeres, so won’t need to worry about storing my suitcase. I appreciate that you made sure I was aware of the constraints and my options.

“…the Golden Pass route, one of the two best scenic routes in Switzerland imo” – May I ask what you consider to be the other most scenic route?

Rain or shine, I WILL walk TO the Chateau de Chillon rather than from it -- thanks!


➢ ingo

Thanks for the suggestions for walking through the vineyards above Vevey! I had been considering walks a bit further west, and will now plan to ensure that I begin my travels with information about multiple options so I can play it by ear.

Hi again,

The other scenic route that is among the best is the Bernina Express, particularly that portion from Pontresina to Poschiavo, which it appears you'll be taking on day 14.

Some other good walks through the vineyards are --

Chexbres to Rivaz (about 30 minutes). Take the train to Chexbres (change in Vevey), then just walk downhill until you get to the lake. Rivaz has a wonderful restaurant across the street from the lake called the Auberge du Rivaz. Then either take the train back or take the ferry back.

Lutry to Epesses or Rivaz. I adore the town of Lutry in itself. The walk from Lutry to Epesses or Rivaz will take about 2 or 3 hours.

Ingo -- yaaaaay! I love it when our thoughts agree!!

s

Another vote for Lutry - love this charming tiny town.

I mentioned Vevey for walks in the vineyards because you and Pal talked about Montreux. I think these walks get better and better the further west from Montreux-Vevey you go (until Lutry).

Well I cannot imagine any other vineyards being more awesome than those that carpet the long steep hill to its east - the walk I did down was thru nothing but vines. I never heard of Lutry but I'll have to look it up next time in that lovely lovely area which besides looking to me more old-world than most of Germanic Switzerland is also French-speaking and French in feeling - very different from German or Italian or Romansch Switzerland.

Very telling thing to me on the Golden Pass train from Spiez to Montreux - we could easily tell when it entered the French part of Switzerland around Chateau d'Oex by the way the woodpiles were stacked - on the German side oh so evenly cut and stacked - every end the exact same length - but on the French side more haphazzardly cut and not stacked in a straight line!

➢ swandav and
➢ ingo

I’m so glad you both mentioned Lutry! That’s the area I’ve been most seriously considering for my visit to the Lavaux vineyards – the stretch between Lutry and Cully.

One option would be to visit the vineyards from Lausanne starting in the late afternoon on the day I arrive there from Geneva (leaving Lausanne for Lutry by 17:00 or so at the latest, and preferably an hour or more earlier). If I do that, I believe it would be possible to spend an hour or so in Lutry, take the vineyard trail to Cully, stop briefly there, and still get back to Lausanne before sunset (which won’t be until after 21:00 when I’m there).

In case I feel pressed for time and so want only an hour for my time on foot, I’ve also been considering options for walking a smaller stretch of that trail, perhaps ending in Cully but starting in, say, Villette (but the train stop is by the lake, below the trail at that point?) or Grandvaux. I’m looking at that part as my possible short-option because of a Tripadvisor post by swandav that made me think that the trail between Lutry and Villette might not be quite as nice. (“I had to walk on a sidewalk next to the road for about half a mile between Villette and Lutry, yuk. … going into Lutry, the "trail" is really just some outcropping of rocks along the backside of the houses and villas.”)


➢ PalenQ

I loved your description of the transition from Germanic to French Switzerland, and will definitely pay attention to woodpiles as I move around!

You reminded me of a train trip I took many, many years ago from St. Petersburg to Helsinki. I couldn’t help but notice how different things were on one side of the border than the other. Thanks for bringing memories of that trip to my mind!

Hi again,

I believe the walk you quote me about is the lakeside trail, not the vineyard trail. I love lakes and usually try to find long stretches of walks next to them. I remember hoping to find one around Lutry but wasn't successful.

Yes, the vineyards are in the hills up above the lake, so it's best to get uphill a bit to enjoy them.

Yes, Villette is at the lakeside, as is Cully, so the vineyard walk might not be great. I think Villette to Grandvaux would be more "vineyard-y."

It would be a shame to miss Lutry though --

Take a good look using google maps, and you'll see what I mean.

Have fun!

s

Have I just identified an unexpected problem or found an unexpected bonus?

I just realized that my “day 7”—the day on which I planned to start in Fribourg, visit Neuchatel’s Latenium, roam around Solothurn, and reach Basel—is a holiday (Corpus Christi) in these specific areas.

From what I’ve been able to learn in the last few hours, the effect would be greatest in Fribourg, where there is a “solemn procession” on that day. My plan for Fribourg was to arrive the prior day and spend a couple of hours exploring before dinner. For this particular day (Corpus Christi), I would probably just walk around a bit before leaving. So maybe this holiday would provide a wonderful opportunity to observe a venerated local tradtiion (even if just for an hour or so), as opposed to a serious disruption. Any insights?

So far (at least), I haven’t found any indication that the Latenium would be closed for Corpus Christi. For Solothurn, my primary goal was just to walk around a bit. (There are a few churches where I’d like to spend a few moments if they are open, but nothing that’s an itinerary-driver for me, at least so far.) And I’m not particularly concerned about Basel—I hadn’t expected to have any real time for sightseeing on this particular day in any event, and there’s so much to see that I should have some options even if I have some time and find that a few things are closed. Do any of you see problems for these locations?

So what are your thoughts—is this a wonderful opportunity to see the procession in Fribourg or a reason to re-think this part of my itinerary? Or something else...?

Thanks again!


➢ swandav

OK, now I understand those comments about your walk from Villette to Lutry! Thanks for clarifying. (And just to confirm: This thread and its antecedent prove beyond doubt that I can find a way to create confusion out of just about any comment, no matter how clear! Thanks for your patience.)

I still hope to spend a bit of time in Lutry, even if I end up deciding to shorten or curtail my time for walking in the area. In the “worst“ case, you and your incomparable fellow Fodorites have given me a lot of ideas about alternative walking trails through various vineyards edging Lake Geneva. I can’t say how much I appreciate all this information!

So what are your thoughts—is this a wonderful opportunity to see the procession in Fribourg or a reason to re-think this part of my itinerary? Or something else...?>

Well those types of things have always been amongst the highlights of my trips - your luck - take advantage of it - who knows Solothun's churches may be closed in the afternoon after morning mass?

Definitely see the procession.

Well, Solothurn is just a great town overall. Unspoiled old town. City wall/gates, clock tower, fountains on small squares, the two churches ... two (?) manors nearby which are worth to see, but you won't have time for them; location is a bit of a distance from the town centre.

thanks Ingo for enlightening me about Soloturn - I passed thru there a few years ago and changed trains - took a brief look outside the station and did not see much - but I should have and will look around more - based on your impeccable endorsement!

➢ PalenQ and
➢ Ingo

I will view the procession in Fribourg as a welcome and unexpected bonus. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

For Solothurn, I realize that I might miss the interiors of churches (though I’ll check once there – one never knows!). And even if I can’t see them, I am looking forward to walking around the Old Town.

BTW, PalenQ, you might check out some of ingo’s stunning pics:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/a8840/

Yes Solothun looks neat and a river like the Aare running thru it always makes a Swiss town nicer - will check it out next trip! Thanks to Ingo.