Real Ale in the UK
 

My husband and I are going to the UK next month and while cruising the internet for miscellaneous trip info, I came across this website about real ale:

http://www.vintage-pub-signs.com/cam...-real-ale.html

One of the things we're looking forward to is pub crawling so what I'd like to know is how hard is it to find traditional ale at a pub? Will it say so on the sign or is it luck of the draw when you go into the pub as to what they serve?

Or maybe what I should ask--as someone who enjoys a good pint but is no connoisseur--can you really tell the difference between real and regular?

Anything anyone wants to tell me about English pubs I'm ready to listen because we're way out of practice in this department.

I think if you're really interested, you should google real ale and the name of the cities/towns you'll be in. My only experience with it was in Edinburgh, which had several pubs to choose from. We didn't go to a lot of pubs, but went the Bow Bar, one of many I read about being famous for their Real Ale selection. They had a chalkboard indicating their ales of the day, but I don't recall if there was a sign outside highlighting that aspect of the pub.

Can you tell the difference? Absolutely. Will you prefer it to the pints you usually enjoy? That depends on your taste in beer/ale etc. But by all means you should give it a try, as you won't find anything else like it.

1. Yes, you can tell the difference if you like beer with taste. If you like beer served so cold that you can't taste the taste, then don't bother with real ale.

2. Look for pubs with the Casque Mark outside, http://www.cask-marque.co.uk/
There are many good pubs without the Casque Mark, but this is a good way to start.

I am a big fan of cask conditioned ales,AKA Real Ale.
One of the best guides I have found is called "The Good Pub Guide" by Alisdair Aird. You can order a copy from Amazon for US$16.47 and I highly recommend it.
They also have a website.
http://www.goodguides.co.uk/

Well I'll be darned but googling "real ale lynton" turned up several pubs worth investigating. We'll be in Devon for four nights so I think we'll have ample opportunity to do some tastings. Thanks zooey. I'd have never thought of refining my search like that.

ron and Lovejoy (from the show?), the website links are good!!

Now next question--inasmuch as Budweiser, Miller, and Coors are our everyday beers, what are the brand equivalents in the UK? Is it Bass and Harp?

definitely - you can tell the difference.

CAMRA which you linked to is a great resource . . . .

http://www.fancyapint.com has tons of listings and reviews for pubs all over London and the UK, though the London listings are the most complete.

Google "Campaign for Real Ale" and you'll find their website as well.

Lee Ann

Here is another website that might be of interest, a database of real ale breweries, http://www.beermad.org.uk/

I don't understand your second question. What do you mean by "everyday beers", the most popular mass market beers? These are not real ales, since lagers are much more popular than real ales. I would guess Budweiser and Fosters, perhaps Stella, might be the most popular beers in the UK.

ron, yes, I was wondering about mass market beers so I don't ask for one by mistake. There's no sense in drinking something ordinary.

As others suggest, invest in two books -- CAMRA's Guide to Good Beer and the Good Pub Guide. These two books will be all you need to find the best real ale and pubs throughout the UK.

Also check the CAMRA website to see if there are any beer festivals in areas you'll be. These are a great opportunity to sample a variety that aren't as readily available.

Where will you be?

"I was wondering about mass market beers so I don't ask for one by mistake"

Maybe it's just me, but this really isn't a risk I've faced for years.

First remember that, though there are some exceptions to this rule but you might as well forget about them, anyone looking for real ale in a pub won't be drinking bottled or canned beer. However, in a supermarket practicaly ever beer in a bottle these days will be interesting - including the increasingly widely available bottled Real Budweiser: the proper Budweiser, brewed by the original Czech company according to the Reinheitsgebot, and not the similarly-branded muck brewed on behalf of those American junk drink merchants. Preactically all canned beer (again, there are exceptions, but...) in shops will be muck.

Bass, by the way, is utterly respectable and is often actually sought out by lovers of decent beer. Harp, I'm glad to say, seems to have gone, unlamented, to the great junkheap in the sky

In a pub, therefore you're limiting yourself to what's on draught - and it's blissfully rare (though sadly not impossible) these days to find a pub with no real ale. At quiet times, every barman or barmaid will always be delighted to tell you about what's real and what isn't.

However dithering over ordering if there are other people waiting to be served is seriously ill-mannered. The simplest way to avoid a grave breach of etiquette is to survey the badges on the beer pumps. It's perfectly good manners to ask the advice of other drinkers before ordering - and actually, that's a terrific way of getting talking.

I wouldn't personally be too prissy about confining yourself to real ale. There are lagers (like real Budweiser) that most proper beer drinkers actively seek out, and to be honest there are times when a cold lager suits the bill better than a room-temperature, relatively heavy, ale. Avoid Carling. But there's no crime in ordering an Australian recipe like Fosters to see if you like it

Flanner must live in a more/less refined world than I do. In this neck of the woods, we have pubs that sell real ale (and the other junk) and pubs that don't.

I don't drink beer, but many of my friends do; so I tend to know where they are locally.

And smart marketing does try to make some of the junk look/sound like tradional beers are.

And, Michael, you just said "draught". Most pubs have draught beer and it's not "real". If you were an unsuspecting person from across the water (and I don't mean Ireland) would that lead you to understand that you need to know the difference between a hand pump and one of those electric things.

Absolutely, get the Good Beer Guide from Camra; and ask, always ask.

<i>how hard is it to find traditional ale</i>

Don't assume that a pub selling 'traditional' ale is selling real ale. The term is meaningless and just a marketing ploy.

Look, as people have pointed out here, for signs saying <u>real ale</u> or <u>cask-conditioned</u>, or a recent <u>CAMRA</u> sticker.

There are plenty of pubs around where good beer is a fetish with the landlord and the regulars and these (apart from busy times) will usually be happy to let you try samples and tell you about the beers.

CAMRA's Good Beer Guide is helpful.

If you post back with an indication of where you will be going local people here may be able to help.

One last piece of advice. Don't drink with your eyes. Too many people choose beer by colour - it's taste that matters.

Ah! My specialist subject!

The easy way to tell if a beer is &quot;real&quot; is for it to be pumped by hand - look on the bar for the distinctive hand pumps (they look like policeman's truncheons). There are exeptions to this - the northern monkeys sometimes use electric pumps. However in Devon they won't.

On the front of each pump will be a badge showing what beer is available (and also how strong it is).

There are literally thousands of beers available acrosss the country.

I used the website beer in the evening (fancy a pint mentioned above is london only) to look up Lynton and it came up with two recommendations - both of which sound great..

http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs...shtml?l=lynton

Don't be afraid to ask for a sample before you buy - we're used to Americans' strange drinking habits.

One word of warning: If you're not used to it, it can be heady stuff - some beers are rather strong - check the percentage on the pump badge, especially if you're driving.

I'd managed to miss the reference to Devon. Try the local cider, in small quantities.

<i>check the percentage on the pump badge, especially if you're driving</i>

Not wanting to start an argument, but if you're drinking - don't drive.

I'd agree - especially if you're driving on the &quot;wrong&quot; side of the road, but it isn't illegal to drink in small amounts (about a pint and a half is the limit).

However it isn't worth the risk.

I'd second the cider recommendation - it's nothing like the muck that Americans call cider.

Everyone's comments have been good advice - but just to stress you really <u>must</u> at least try the cider. It is wonderful - and very strong. (BTW don't order &quot;hard cider&quot; -- cider in the UK IS hard)

Ale IMO

Lots of good advice abovethough not sure what good fosters is.

If the beer is cold it is mass market
If the beer is from the north it will generally (I said generally) have a thickish head of bubbles. If from the south it will (I said generally) look flat with just a few bubbles.

Go read the Camra guide

Well I've no end of entertainment following the links provided so thank you all. In addition to finding where to get a good pint in Devon, I've picked up a lot of tourist info as well. Pub websites are very helpful! The best one--in Exeter, the Double Locks Pub on the quay, where we can rent kayaks and paddle down the canal. We are avid kayakers so this a bonus I hadn't expected. Paddle and Pub. I am in heaven.

Americans are well-accustomed to seeing beer-engine-style handles. However, ours are usually just for show and are used to dispense the same old carbon-dioxide-pressurized beer you get at the Bud Lite tap next to it. The key is to watch the barkeep when he or she is operating it. If she pulls it forward a quarter of an inch (just opens a hidden tap in front of it) and just stands there while the beer comes out, it ain't real ale. The real thing is a hand-operated pump that must be worked a bit.

I don't think you'll run into the fake-o kind much in Britain, but if you're accustomed to seeing them in the States you'll want to be aware of the difference.

Ill-kept real ale is dramatically worse than the best pressurized beer, so it's not the only thing to go by. Beer likes to be kept cool (not &quot;warm&quot;, which is a ludicrous slander) and dispensed through clean tubing.

A top-notch pub will be able to serve you outstanding examples of a number of different styles. Going head-to-head, though, a real ale presented well will blow away the competition (i.e., other ales).

Study the badges first and if you're still flummoxed just point -- but be absolutely sure you say what size you want. Just naming a beer will annoy everyone in earshot -- you'll want to use the word &quot;pint&quot; or &quot;half&quot;. This is the biggest mistake made by Americans in British pubs. &quot;Pint of best bitter&quot; will get good results in most places unless they have more than one.

The books recommended here are both essential.

And DO be careful -- too much real ale too early in the day can ruin your trip even if you're not driving. The stuff is so good! But you don't want to be blotto by one PM -- and you don't want to have to stop to drain some off every five minutes either. There is nothing soft about having a half if you're visiting lots of places.

The Double Locks is one of our very favorite pubs and the location, on the canal outside of Exeter is divine. As a kayaker you will love it. Make sure you have good directions, it can be tricky to find. Also near there is the Turf Inn, another great pub. Newton Ferrers is also wonderful for kayaking with great ale at the Dolphin and maybe the Ship.

Are you in southern Devon for long? There are many good pubs and creeks just west in Cornwall as well.

What an interesting post, friar. I'll watch how they dispense the ale! Since I am not familiar with the brand names I should think I'll be asking for recommendations by the taste, ie, stronger, milder, etc. Or maybe it would be fun to try something seasonable or strictly local instead (particularly for the cider, which I love), again on an expert rec. I will, however, be sure to drink only the real stuff.

No worry anyone about us drinking and driving. We have two college age children and we've drummed it into their heads so much about the effects of alcohol that we're hardly likely to pull one of those &quot;do as I say not as I do&quot; stunts. It's stupid to drive drunk everywhere in this world.

Let's see, we'll be basing ourselves in Lynton for four nights. This is our rough plan, so if anyone knows of any good places in the vicinity, I'd be glad to know!

We'll be walking the coastal path from Lynton. One day we'll be driving west to Tintagnel, another day to Totnes to take the boat down the river to Dartmouth, an afternoon in Exeter, another drive east to Minehead, and we want to explore Doone country since I am in the midst of plowing through the book.

I don't often post here, but I'm a Master Brewer so thought I'd weigh in.

Someone earlier said &quot;avoid Carling&quot;. I wouldn't be so damning. Carling is the only mainstream UK lager to have DMS, (dimethyl sulphide) which is normal in European lagers, and gives it a fuller taste than the Australian lagers that are often on UK bars (Fosters, for example, uses bitter yeast, which obviously doesn't work in a lager) Lager isn't to the taste of ale drinkers generally, but Carling is unfairly criticised IMO. As you are familiar with Miller/Coors etc, I think it would be an interesting comparison.

In terms of real ales, our pubs are very good at this these days, and as long as you don't hit some hellish high street chain you'll have a lot of choice. Certainly ask for advice at the bar (but not if its busy) and looking for the hand pumps will help you tell whether its a &quot;real&quot; ale. We have a massive massive range, and the good thing now is that so many are local. unfortunately this means I can't particularly advise you as I don't know the brews in the area you are going to. I would have thought that the local camra branch (google camra and the area) would be happy to hear from you and point you in the right direction, and would also respectfully suggest that you have a quick look at http://www.sirc.org/publik/passport.pdf

Good luck on your travels

When I visited Cornwall (it was 2 years ago), most of the larger and popular pubs had Tribute from St. Austell. It's an excellent local cast beer. Should try it if you're in the Southwest.

Anyways, when I travel, I always for recommendations while there for local favorites. It's worked for me all the time - in the US and abroad.

Near Totnes -- look at the Maltsters Arms. It is very nice and on a sweet creek for paddling.

Seems like you are covering a lot of ground to embrace paddling / walking and real ale...how long are you in the west?

libuse, that's interesting reading you provided. Funny that the only place you don't queue up is at the pub! And I gather it's no longer unlady-like to order a pint these days? I went to Ireland when I was a college student (more than a few years ago) and it was NOT the thing. I will say that sometimes I don't want to drink a pint of anything, but if it's hot outside and I'm thirsty, I can down a pint with the best of them.

As to covering a lot of ground--we never go on vacation to relax! We can do that at home. I know we won't get to do half of what we want to. There's simply way to many opportunities in Devon to ramble and paddle so we'll have to content ourselves with only a sampling. I have, however, made a note of everyone's suggestions and they're in my pocket travel notebook so you can't say that I won't be prepared. LOL

Hi mermaid - I'm glad you liked the link, I think its a great document. You are right about pints, I'm a mid-thirties female and would only order a half in a very few situations. You'll be absolutely fine drinking pints if you fancy one. The important thing is to enjoy what's in the glass!

bookmsrking

mermaid, it will be so great for you that you are traveling with someone who speaks the language :D

St Austell's Tribute Ale is mentioned above. They sell this in a pub I use in Lewisham (about as far from rural Devon as it's possible to get) and it's a cracking pint.

One word of warning - a bad pint of real beer can have devastating gastric consequences. You can spot a bad pint (ie one that has outlived it's shelf life - real beer is a living product) pretty easily - it will smell of vinegar and bad eggs. It will also be dead flat and look mucky. A good pint should be &quot;bright&quot; ie transparent.

If you aren't happy with a beer - take it back. It's not considered rude or anything - certainly don't drink it. If you do you won't be wearing white trousers for a day or two.

Make sure you have some pork scratchings with it!

Do a search about any beer festivals in the area as well, as these will normally have a wide range of real ales to try. Some pubs will have an annual beer festival. You'll also often find a beer tent (usually serving real ales) at folk music festivals/events too.

The things I learn here! I hadn't a clue as to what &quot;pork scratchings&quot; are (though I figured it was some kind of rind) so I looked it up. This is good for a laugh--
http://forum.lowcarber.org/archive/i.../t-332810.html

I searched for beer festivals but we shall be in Devon during the week, missing the weekends, so we'll miss out. I was particularly sad to see there's a cider festival going on mid-October...but not for us. Next visit I shall plan a little better. I've never had anything but bottled cider and some of the stuff here is ghastly so it would have been a treat to try different samples of Devon ciderat a fair. (I honestly don't think I've ever had real ale either; such gaps in my education!).

Scarlett, you may think because my husband is Windsor born-and-bred that he'd be answering all my questions, but I have to tell you the man is useless. He's strictly a porter and stout man. Every business trip he makes to the UK, I ask him &quot;What'd you have to drink?&quot; &quot;Guinness&quot; &quot;Guinness&quot; &quot;Guiness&quot; Every now and then he'll slip in a Murphy's just to confuse me, but not very often! I love a stout as much as the next person, but I'm hardly going to drink it every day. So you can see if I want to learn something, I have to come to Fodor's.

Mmmmmmm Somerset Cider -- brings back memories of my very first trip anywhere on my own. We stayed not far from Wells, and had Cider in the pub. Then we stood up. Then we sat right back down again - quickly!!! Yum!

Is Real Ale also obtainable in the Republic of Ireland? If so any sources?
Thanks,
sj

There's a very informative post about beer in Ireland at http://www.xs4all.nl/~patto1ro/irlbrew.htm

While Ireland is apparently the only country in the world that consumes a majority of its beer top-fermented (i.e., ale, porter, stout), versus bottom-fermented (lager), almost all of that top-fermented beer is stout, not ale. Almost all non-stout beer consumed is lager -- and lager by definition is not Real Ale. The only real ales produced in Ireland are going to be microbrews, and most microbrews are not going to be cask-conditioned either. And honestly, the quality may be extremely variable, compared to a big mass-market carbonated ale like Bass. Most of the real ale is going to be in Northern Ireland, not the Republic.

On that page, he lists the following cask-conditioned (&quot;real&quot;) ales brewed in Ireland:
* Biddy Early Brewery - Real Biddy (County Clare)
* Maguire - several kinds, both pressurized and cask-conditioned versions (Dublin)

Northern Ireland:
* Hilden - four varieties: Hilden Ale, Molly Malone's Porter, Scullion's Irish, Original (County Antrim)
* College Green - two cask varieties, Molly's Chocolate Stout and Headless Dog (Belfast)
Whitewater - eleven varieties, all cask-conditioned -- I'm always skeptical of a brewpub that puts out this many different kinds (County Down)

If you want a real beer experience in Ireland, drink the stout. A lot of the locals will be drinking Tennants or Carling lagers; don't imitate them!

Is the cider that Janisj and wasleys and others mention called 'Scrumpy' ? or scrumpy more of a very strong farmers cider and more readily available on a farm than in a pub ?

mathieu, here's a useful website. My husband says about scrumpy &quot;One and you're done.&quot;

www.zider.co.uk

I don't know (yet) how easily found it is.

In Dublin, I believe the Porterhouse also serves up a cask conditioned ale or two. Maguire's has a long list of beers that they brew, but not all will be available (same with the Porterhouse). Both have excellent beers. Biddy early is an interesting place to visit between Ennis and Doolin in the tiny village of Inagh. I drove (stupidly) right past the Carlow brewing company enroute to Kilkenny. They brew a very fine stout that can be found in the States.

Despite the claims of CAMRA, not all great beers are real ales and unless you have a well trained palate, you may have a hard time finding a huge variation between many of the varieties. They will taste quite a bit different than Bud and Coors ... thankfully. I find that after a while of drinking real ales, I'm dying for some more malty like a porter or a stout. There are a few p[laces that draw some slightly maltier beverages from the cask.

I am with the folks who enjoy St. Austell but try some of their other brews aside from the Tribute. They do a very good job.

I can't tell you that Coors is a great brewery but I recently learned a few things about them that helped me gain some respect for them. Whereas Bud did everything they could to shoot down the small craft brewers, Coors has been very supportive and has even helped with the distribution. In fact, Coors makes a number of small batch beers and the tiny Boulder Brewery (oldest micro brewery in the States)has been given the responsiblity of kegging them for them. In fact, Coors makes a couple of 'craft&quot; beers that are sold at the Sandlot Brewery at Coors Field (wherethe Colorado Rockies play). They do a pretty good job and if you happen to be in Denver for the Great American Beer Festival (one of the greatest weekends in the country), the Sandlot will have their entire line available.

Bill

Scrumpy is a type of cider, yes.

I had some Biddy Early when I was in Ireland (yes, in Clare) :) While I don't usually care for beer, it was very rich and tasty.

And for those of us who prefer their real ale hoppy, rather than malty, St. Austell's Proper Job is preferred over Tribute, or the also widely available Tinners, every time. But as another poster said, it can be difficult to find lots of variation within the real ale choices offered at the majority of pubs. I think this is what makes a good free house or the &quot;guest&quot; pumps so much fun -- to find something different with some flavor.