Rant about "us" tourists
 

I just finished reading probably the 20th reference to too touristy spots in Europe or dressing too touristy. I live in Kansas City. Okay, its ain't Paris, but thats besides the point. When I go to the grocery store, that is certainly not a "tourist" spot here, but this is where I live, where I clean my toilets and cook the meals. When I vacation, I AM a tourist. I don't have to do all the mundane things that Europeans have to do, like hang their laundry out to dry (for example). Now that would definitely be off the tourist track, but why would I want to do that? I also don't want to do all the mundane stuff I do at home where I am not a tourist. I don't get why being a tourist has such a negative connotation here. And about those white tennies and jeans. Give me a break! Do you honestly think anyone cares what you wear? The world is getting very small. Everyone, and I do mean everyone dresses just like you do at home. Suburban people dress casual, no matter where they live when they are out running errands and city people may dress a bit nicer, but very often its work clothes. Go anywhere in the world where people are vacationing. You can't tell a German or Englishman from some poor guy from Minnesota. They are dressed alike and they are touring the same places. I just had to get that off my chest! Thanks for the chance Fodors.

Feel better now?

Except for the sandals with socks and a couple of minor differences I agree completly.
Well said ZWHA

You're absolutely right. No one cares what other people wear. You're also, right that people dress pretty much the same where ever you go. You will always meet people dressed pretty much as you are dressed. It's the first level of social selectivity.

Personally, I'm much more comfortable if I'm appropriately turned out, although, no one would consider me a fashion plate. That's okay, I like to be comfortable both in my body and in my mind. It just makes sense to me to be dressed as though anything wonderful might happen to me at any moment.
Once, my hubby and I were lost in Prague. I had hurt my foot, we hadn't eaten and I was limping along on this noisy street that was undergoing some construction. In short, I was at the tip of my travel tether. DH spotted a group of well shod people going into a restaurant, he decided that was exactly what I needed. He was right, it was a slice of heaven. The truth is, I'm not so secure that I could have tromped in there wearing my dog walking shoes and been at ease. But if someone else can, more power to them.

I don't think anyone insists that other people wear certain clothes. When people ask about wearing white sneakers, they are just trying to be comfortable within their own standards. And isn't comfort the point of your post?

Hi zwho, everyone should dress the way that works for them. I do here in my city, I do in SF, I do in S Ca, I do in Italy. No need to get into a flap about it. Just do your thing. And don't worry about it. Happy travels to you.

< You can't tell a German or Englishman from some poor guy from Minnesota. >

Sure you can. The Englishman is wearing a Manchester United jersey and the Minnesotan is clad in Vikings purple and gold, leaving the German (possibly identifiable by a tiny Speedo). ;_)

- a Minnesotan, who knows of at least 1/3 of what she speaks.

LOL, thanks zwho! That felt good, didn't it? :D
You are right, we are all tourists when we are out of our own town..But I DO NOT look like a German and Englishman or a Minnesotan...well, maybe I look like an Englishwoman ((F))

It does strike me as funny every time I read where someone wants to visit a place and meet the real people and not be taken for a tourist. Do they think the locals don't know you are a tourist? Do they think you suddenly appear in town and that you just live around the corner and don't get out much? Most of the locals have known each other most of their lives.

Most places who welcome tourists make their living on tourists, white sneakers and all, they don't care, just hand them the money.

If you want to look like a well-dressed tourist then that is another story, but it really doesn't matter to them. I would rather look well dressed and not sloppy. Afterall the most comfortable clothes would be sweats or a muu muu!

Ah, Scarlett but do you sound like an English woman? :-)

Seaurchin - that is so true!

My general thought is that since no-one knows me why would they bother to take any notice of me.

I guess I just don't think I'm that important :-D

Some great points zwho. And I love this too "..someone wants to visit a place and meet the real people and not be taken for a tourist."

I really hate it when I read for example - "Does anyone know of any non touristy places in Paris". Like, that way no one is gonna notice you! And never mind the fact you can't speak French.

I'm not embarassed about being a tourist and doing all the cliche things tourists do. I do try not to behave as a tourist i.e I respect the host nation's culture and social etiquette and try to speak their language.

Though, it is nice to go somewhere, a restaurant perhaps, that locals frequent. I have the feeling that if the restaurant is full of Americans, the food will be much worse, than if it is full of Italians, for instance. Not trashing on my brethern but in general, us Americans can't distinquish good food from bad.

Your post makes sense, but I just wanted to mention that when I ask people about the customs of a country I'm planning to visit, it's not because I want to hide the fact that I'm a tourist (I don't think that's possible). It's because I feel more respectful of the place I'm visiting when I make an attempt to blend in rather than stand out.

I live in a city that attracts thousands of tourists (Washington, DC), and I'm always kind and helpful when I interact with them, but I definitely feel more grateful towards the ones who are considerate of the fact that they're visiting someone else's home. And so, that's the kind of tourist I try to be. I'm not thinking I'll pass for local, I'm just giving a nod to the fact that the locals might have customs that are different from mine.

Heidi

There's also the point that some sorts of 'touristy' places either only exist for or are run entirely around a manufactured 'experience' solely for visitors, that purports to be something 'genuine' when it isn't, often at a premium price and lower quality of experience (rush you through in a crowd and into the gift shop in twenty minutes) than you could get by making your own arrangements.

zwho: I don't know how to break it to you gently, but people in Paris or Rome do <b>not</b> dress the way you do in Kansas City. And the people in the suburbs of Paris and Rome do <b>not</b> dress the way people in the suburbs of Kansas City do.

If you want to stick out like a sore thumb in your jeans and white tennis shoes, by all means, do so. But be aware that the reception you receive in Paris or Rome would be quite different -- and very much more agreeable -- if you tried &quot;when in Rome, to do as the Romans do.&quot;

Dressing as nicely as you can (luggage space limitations taken into account) on vacation is to my thinking a matter of respect for those around you. I also work in Washington DC, and frankly I'm appalled at &quot;vacation wear.&quot; Sure it's hot, but most of these folks are going to be inside air conditioned museums most of the day. Just how much skin do we need to see, folks; this isn't the beach.

Actually, when I am on vacation, I DO enjoy doing some of the mundane stuff that locals do.
When I was back in the Lehigh Valley visiting people and places I hadn't seen for six years after moving to Europe, going to the local Wegman's and the Allentown food market with one of my best friends was as entertaining for me as strolling the rue Mouffetard would be for an American tourist in Europe.
And no, I don't like to hang out in touristy cafes, restaurants, etc. We prefer to go off the beaten track. If all I wanted on a vacation was to hang out with other tourists in spots totally dedicated to tourists, I'd go to Epcot.
When I'm in Italy, I don't pretend that I'm an Italian (it would be hard to since 90% of my wardrobe comes from Belgian and German shops). But that doesn't mean I have to dress like I'm hitting the boardwalk at Wildwood.

Ah yes. The boardwalk in Wildwood ... :D

I don't think it's a question of whether your dress betrays you as a tourist -- as others have said, honestly, who cares? -- but whether you're dressed appropriately for the place and occassion.

Just as we accept dress codes when touring churches or courtrooms, we should be aware of the usually less-rigid, but nonetheless real rules that govern dress in restaurants, shops and neighborhoods. The penalty for violating these rules ranges from polite indifference through condescension to exclusion.

It's just the way things go. The way you dress sends strong signals about your socio-economic class, taste and manners, and probably some other qualities. The least of your problems may be identification as a &quot;tourist.&quot;

Eloise -

You are absolutely correct. People - with the exception of teens - don;t dress the same all over the world.

Obviously everyone is entitled to dress any way they want. And if they feel more comfortable dressing as they do at home when running errands - that's fine. But in most of europe - people running errands don;t wear jeans and giant wite sneakers.

And people going out to dinner definitely don;t dress that way. (If you see people out to dinner in a nice restaurant in jeans and giant white sneakers they are most probably american tourists.)

Most adults in europe dress more formally - and often in more sophisticated clothing than you see in the average US mall. (Face it - most of us don;t have much style.)

Even most people in some cities in the US - NYC, San Francisco etc - don;t dress that way. (Running errands perhaps - but here giant white sneakers have been definitely out for at least a year - even for casuale people are wearing colored ones that are flat - and often in alterante styles - like mary janes etc - with their capris or knee hitting shorts in khaki or white.)

And most places in Manhattan you may see locals in jeans - but stylish, trendy ones - often with real shoes - and attractive tops - not Sam's Garage tee shirts.

Wear whatevrer you're comfortable with - but please don;t think it;s the same as the locals wear.

At a Milan hotel, I saw two well-dressed Americans who were screaming at the hostess at breakfast because there wasn't American food offered. Even though they were dressed appropriately, their behavior was appalling. It's not always about what you wear.

Don't be a tourist; be a traveler. Experience things as they are, not as you want them to be.

Bravo to the OP.

Style is still completely subjective to culture.

Just wear appropriate for the activity and surroundings you will be in- and watch the exposed skin and don't dwell or obsess on style at all. And I'm totally with Love Italy as I wear the exact same clothes relative to climate on any continent.

And although I don't own a pair of white gym shoes, that's all my best friend will wear for walking days. And I prefer to judge her by her behavior rather than by what she wears or how she looks. And as I am a well mannered tourist or guest, I don't feel like I have to worry about what there reaction to ME is, I don't re-form myself to placate or for reactability reasons. If others want to, fine- but some of us are originals and want to stay that way.

If you really want to blend in you have to get t-shirts that say &quot;I'm with Stupid&quot; in German, French and Italian to wear in the appropriate country.

JJ5: Wearing white gym shoes is &quot;original&quot;?!?

Incidentally, I wear the same thing in comparable settings on both continents as well. I live in a cosmopolitan city and dress accordingly. When I am in a cosmopolitan city such as Rome, I also dress accordingly -- in the same clothes that I wear at home. I would no more wear white gym shoes downtown at home than I would in Rome.

I don't guess I understand.

Is there someone running around here telling traveling people what to wear - who <i>didn't</i> ask?

And in the spirit of people everywhere wearing the same thing, I wonder if the unsolicited &quot;fitting in&quot; fashion advice (if such advice really exists) to someone, say, asking if it was ok to wear her sari to Rome?

Eloise, you misread. I don't own a pair of white gym shoes. I happen to wear what is right for ME. MY FRIEND wears white gym shoes and I don't choose her for what she wears. I am my own style- whatever that is- and always have been.

JJ5: No, I don't think I misread. I would assume that you would make the same claim to the right to be an &quot;original&quot; for your friend with the white gym shoes as you would for yourself. Or are you only crediting yourself with being an &quot;original&quot;?

And oh yes, Clifton, there are always people here and also OFF of Fodors that will try to relate what you MUST wear to fit in, or how &quot;people&quot; feel about you if you don't. Lots of people who are fashion driven do ask, but many of us JUST don't and we still hear critics repeatedly downmouth the uncultured American tourist outfit.

And that was a very savvy comment about the sari. Some of our tourists and visitors coming to my college campus have inappropriate clothing for the activities or meetings, and yet I would never react negatively or rudely to them because of it.

It seems that there is a dichotomy of judgment depending upon who is the supposed &quot;transgressor&quot;.

I would never claim to call my friend original or include her in any fashion &quot;category&quot; or judge her by that avenue. I just don't pick my friends that way. And yes, I am far more original than the fashion driven. And that may not be good either, but I really don't care who likes it or not unless it would maybe be a potential client or a significant other. And I've done just fine there too, thank you. I've worn the same type of style since I've been in my 20's. I am a very small person and I don't follow fashion trends at all, they are mostly marketed by men anyway, and for reasons that I have no interest for aspiration.

Well, we have to face it, there are those people who have no sense of style, dont't want a sense of style, don't need a sense of style and simply wear what they want no matter how they look (and are perfectly happy). Then there are those who dress to make themselves look their best.

I don't think either of these camps of people are going to change so let's not worry about it.

And it isn't just USA citizens either, people on this board are mostly widely travelled and should realize this.

JJ5: What leads you to believe that anything that I have posted has to do with &quot;fashion trends&quot;?

And you really should learn about correct paragraphing. Unless you meant to imply that a woman wearing a sari would be inappropriately dressed for activities and meetings at your college...

&quot;And it isn't just USA citizens either, people on this board are mostly widely travelled and should realize this.&quot;

Too true -- I'll never forget the sight of German tourist in New York, walking down Fifth Ave with his pale, hairy legs sprouting from bright green gym shorts, ending in, of course, socks and sandals . . .

No, but the comments are made about Americans far more than about Europeans or Asians coming to American cities. If my first post was read correctly, it is self-explanatory. And a comment about the white gym shoe trait for some older or less &quot;cultural&quot; American- well it is certainly THEIR fashion trend that is offending, it seems to many.

And yes, a sari is not appropriate for an aerobics activity, picnic, bbq given for the first day of school- especially if one is seen cavorting on a volleyball court with the wraparound effect &quot;not working&quot; accidentally/on purpose. But that, although embarrassing for some would not be commented on in any sense, in the same way.

But as the OP says, we ARE tourists. And as such, am the customer to their services. Services for which they get paid. I have to be a mannerly guest, I do not have to be invisible.

Isn't that what everyone's argument for &quot;freedom&quot; and &quot;originality&quot; always comes down to in the end: the almighty dollar?

You'd be surprised how little most Europeans are impressed by &quot;the almighty dollar&quot;...

Eloise, you are off the subject completely. And the Europeans I know so well are my relatives. And how they feel about Americans is as varied as they are.

Rome was hated, England was hated, the Netherlands was super hated during their hegemonies. It has much more to do with economic factors than it has to do with offending them in costume.

When you are traveling and visiting other countries, you do learn to see the individual and not just their nationality. That's one of the best things about it. Respect the rules of Rome, but be yourself. And be happy with what YOU are anywhere you are or change it.

The ancient Romans wore socks with sandals.
Let us defend to the death the rights they gave to us.
Personally, I can't see why some people hate the idea of dressing to look nice rather than looking like an unmade bed or a blot on the landscape, but that's just my eccentric opinion,

If you read this post backwards, it says white shoes are the devil.

:)

Jules

In all my travels, white shoes, blue jeans just didn't matter; the only color that mattered was the color of my money. Shown the color of my money, the locals all welcomed me with open arms. I don't care what they thought or felt towards me, as long as they prostituted themselves to take my money for what I wanted, a meal, entertainment or lodging. That's OK with me and it was sure OK with them.

I don't think anybody really cares or gives it any thought what people wear in Europe except maybe the &quot;Neiman-Marcus&quot; crowd.

The only time I can remember when I ever did a double-take regarding what somebody was wearing was when I was in Dingle last year. There were two guys in a car park, looked like brothers, wearing cowboy boots, 10 gallon hats, and leather vests -- the kind with all the little tassles hanging from it. I just smiled to myself and walked across the street to Murphy's to have a Guinness.

Then there was this group of guys &amp; gals in London with the spiked orange, green, purple, and yellow hair with piercings &amp; tattoos all over their bodies. ((a))((b))

&gt;In all my travels, ... the only color that mattered was the color of my money. &lt;

Siiiiiiiggggggggghhhhhhhhh.

&gt;That's OK with me and it was sure OK with them. &lt;

The first part of the sentence is indubitably true.

The second part is open to argument.

((I))