Rail or Road, please help
 

Dear All,

I am planning my first visit to Europe and I have some very basic or rather silly questions and hope some of you can help me:
a) I am a Asian Chinese planning to travel alone, will Europeans be friendly to a Asian ?
b) Between Road and Rail for cross borders, which is more enjoyable, in terms of scenery and comfort ?
c) If I buy a Bus pass like Eurolines or Busabout, can I use it for all the travelling within a city or town ?
d) Are the railways one-way or 2-ways(round trip) on the same route ?
e) If I take the train, can I see the scenery on both sides of the train route or just 1 side at where I am seated ?
f) Is it advisable to backtrack on the same route just to watch the other side of the scenery if I travel by train ?
g) What is the best time to travel ? I heard some train schedule are on only during summers and winters, is it true ? During autumn and spring, how will people travel in those routes ?

Thank you

b) I think train is the way to go, especially when you are traveling solo. More and better options than on a bus.

e) You can get up and walk around on the train & usually you can see out both sides from your seat.

g) i don't think what you heard is correct. Most trains run year-round, at least between major cities (maybe there are certain mountain passes that close in winter, I am not sure).

Thanks suze,

But I think travel by road will be cheaper and also more window space for the scenery on both sides(correct me if wrong), is it worth the savings if I don't mind the discomfort of not being able to move around ?

Do you think if 30 days is enough for me to cover the best of France, Switzerland, Italy, England, Austria and Holland ?

Thanks again.

chinesefan,

Except once when I was quite young, I've never done multi-country trips, so I don't think I can advise you well. For me, 30 days for all those countries would be too quick of a pace. I could spend 30 days in Italy or France alone, no problem! But I'd be big as a house by the time I returned home. And possibly suffering from liver failure. ;)

What are you most interested in: scenery (mountains, lakes, the sea, etc.?), art, history, food...? Which cities or countrysides do you most want to see, and why?

I certainly wouldn't backtrack if I could help it.

Best of luck. I hope people who can help you better than I will be able to answer your questions.

No, I don't think that is enough time to go so many places. I'm sure it is technically possible to go to 6 countries in 30 days. But with only 5 days per country, how many places are you hoping to see? Just 1-2 cities in each country?

I wouldn't want to spend so much time on a bus either. But hey, everyone's different, and it seems you have a strong preference for going by bus.

(but you did ask us which we thought was more enjoyable in terms of scenery and comfort... so my answer was the train).

I think certain areas are better explored by train and certain ones better by car. For instance, Switzerland and parts of Italy (excluding the countryside such as Tuscany) are probably better by train. Austria, England and probably France (although I haven't been yet) are probably better by car unless you are only planning on seeing big cities. Do keep in mind, though, that the cost of renting a car in one country and dropping off in another is usually really expensive. Depending on your budget, you may want to keep that in mind.

I too think that your itinerary looks too ambitious. There is so much to see in any of the countries. But I guess it depends on what kind of trip you are looking for and where your interests lie.

Good luck!
Tracy

I'm pretty sure judging from the response to my post the OP is talking about taking the bus when they say "Road" vs "Rail" meaning the train. I'm in agreement with your comments, I just don't think car rental is being considered.

"Do you think if 30 days is enough for me to cover the best of France, Switzerland, Italy, England, Austria and Holland ?"

Absolutely not. Definitely consider that each time you move from one major city to another it will take almost a full day out of your time. And if you do it by bus it will take much longer.

By train 30 days would be long enough to see some of France/Austria/Switzerland. OR part of Italy/France/Switzerland. OR A small bit of England/France/Holland. For each of these country trios you could add a few days in one other country. But all of them - no way.

And if you do decide to do it by bus - you need to factor in MUCH longer travel times.

Thanks suze. After re-reading the post I do believe you are right. I've never considered taking a bus so that didn't even come in mind when I read the "rail or road" part.

chinesefan, as stated above I've never taken a bus, but its my understanding that some of the busses are fairly slow. If you are interested in both cities and countryside, bus service would probably be needed for some of the out-of-the way places not served by train. I would probably stick with the trains and consider getting a rail pass of some sort. The trains are more expensive, I'm sure, but surely you would be more comfortable on one, especially for longer rides, as many trains have dining or snack cars and you can move around more.

Tracy

I have friends who would be interested in what the answer would be to part a) of Chinesefan's question. I would pass along mention of the answer to them if the answer is negative. Are Europeans likely to be friendly to Asian or dark skinned persons, or do ethnics need to be especially wary when traveling alone in certain countries?

Depending on what countries you are talking about, you will find a mixture of races in many if not most places in Europe. I don't feel qualified to speak to the "friendliness" factor one way or the other.

I don't know anyone who travels around Europe by bus instead of train. But since it must be a budget option, maybe the posters at lonelyplanet.com on the Thorn Tree board might have more information for you?

I don't think five days in each of six countries is pushing it - not for a first-time smorgasbord of cultures, anyway.

I would set up a "base" in six capitals, and after seeing the urban sights, take day trips from there to the surrounding region (either by rental car, train, or bus). From your Paris base, you could visit Normandy or Dordogne; from Munich, perhaps Bavaria or northern Austria, and so on.

If you plan carefully, you can avoid wasting prime time by traveling in the evening (last train out) to each successive base.

This is where a multi-country rail pass begins to make sense - particularly since they also cover much public transportation in the capitals. They also offer "extras" like Rhine cruises and discounts on North Sea ferries. Whatever you do, be sure to go to railsaver.com to see if passes are the best thing for your situation after you have an idea of what your itinerary looks like.

<<Do you think if 30 days is enough for me to cover the best of France, Switzerland, Italy, England, Austria and Holland ?>>

Style of travel, and defining "best of" are the challenges in answering this question.

I do not know Asia (perhaps you don't either) - - perhaps in a fashion similar to your not knowing Europe - - but I wonder how you would view a plan to "see the best of" Hong Kong, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia in 30 days. I think it could be done. How much, or how superficially would such a traveler experience the culture(s), geography, cuisines and sights of those six rather different destinations/countries? How much would the different languages be a barrier to really getting to know them?

There are five different languages spoken in the six countries you mention (and English is spoken in variable degrees in many parts of all five of the "non-English speaking" countries you mention). Besides English (which you seem to command quite well, in writing), do you speak any other European language - - or have any particular affinity for one or more of their respective cultures/languages/cuisines?

Five-ten days will provide a satisfactory (beyond superficial) introduction to three of the countries you mention: Austria, Switzerland and Holland. It is quite a lot to see the "best of" any ONE of the other three in less than 20 days EACH.

You will do better to focus on two countries, worthy of visiting for 10-12 days, and then one (or two) in which you would like 2-5 days (each?) as a comlementary contrast to the other two.

If Italy remains on your final list, train will serve you very, very well. And the answer is hardly any different for any of the other countries (Switzerland bus travel is sometimes mentioned as a good alternative to train).

Best wishes,

Rex

We are an Asian (Chinese/Japanese) family of four who spent a month in Europe this past June/July. Everyone we met, except for one gentleman in London, was very friendly. His unfriendliness was his personality and had nothing to do with us being Asian. I think if you are friendly and outgoing, others will treat you in the same positive manner.

Seeing the countries you listed is doable in 30 days. In the month we were there we visited Brussels, Munich, Wengen, Venice, Florence, Rome, Paris and London. Yes, it was very fast paced but what we wanted to do was give the kids an overview of a lot of different countries. If that is your purpose, then what you propose is okay.

We used our trip as an introduction for the kids and we're going back to revisit the favorites for a longer period of time. If you want to really explore each country, the others are correct in suggesting you pick one or two countries to concentrate on. Either way you decide to travel it will be a great experience.

Generally major cities in europe are multi-cultural, multi-ethnic to at least some extent. I can;t imagine you would have any problems.

But I do believe you are trying to cover way too much territory. You will have time for a few days in one city in each country - and next to nothing for the countryside. I would limit yourself to 3 countries, doing one city and some countryside in each - otherwise you will simply be speding too much time on the train or road - and actually see very little of these very diferent cultures.

And have you checked any of these travel times? On the high-speed trains travel can be quick -but I believe bus travel can be very slow. (I too asumed you meant car when you said road - to me bus travel is simply too uncomfortable for more than an hour ot two.)

If you are set on bus travel, I would suggest you research the routes you might take, and add up the total number of hours you will be spending on a bus during 1 month to see 6 countries. I'm guessing this reality might (but I could be wrong) change your initial plan somewhat if not substantially.

chinesefan: When you are doing your calculations do not fall into the trap of thinking 30 days / 6 countries = 5 days in each country.

Even if you do mean a full 30 days on the ground in Europe - it still doesn't add up. Your first day is basically a non-starter since you will likely be very jet lagged after flying in from Asia.

So now we are down to 29 days. IF you stick to your idea of traveling by bus - then count on a minimum of a full day travel time between countries/major cities. Some will even require an overnight bus ride. So subtract 5 more days - at least.

Then your last day is basically lost to packing and transferring to your departure airport. So one less day.

In all practicality your 30 days that sounds like a LOT will really only give you about 23 days free for seeing the sights. Only about 3.5 days per country.

hopefully chinesefan will check back on this thread. i'm interested to know if this input might influence their plans.

The original questions suggest that the poster will experience a huge culture shock - they have obviously never been on a train, for example. It will be difficult to adjust to travelling in Europe if everything is a new experience. I'd suggest the itinerary should not be as ambitious as for an experienced traveller in Europe.

Hi All,

Thank you very much for all your replies. I hope I can respond and thank you individually but that will be a lot of time. I will need to prepare and maybe do that some other day. Meanwhile, I will just reply and ask further based on what I can recall and please reply if you can.

Yes, looks like I will select Rail over Bus(i should not mention Road earlier and caused the confusion). Reason I considered BUS earlier because it's period pass is cheaper. Since time is a more important factor and all of you recommemnded Train, no doubt it's a better choice.

I try to cover so many places because of time and money. Unlikely I can make a second trip too soon. Most packaged tours offered only 1 full day tour and I night stay in even major cities like Paris, London, Venice, Rome, in fact everywhere,(covering 7 countries in 10 nights) so I thought I can do it faster too(since I walk very fast).

I will like to see both urban and rurals, arts, architecture and countryside sceneries too. I thought taking more places and routes will at least give me more scenery views where else, if I have not seen enough of a city, I can come back again another time but unlikely I will take the same route again.

Can you let me know what are the "not to miss" scenic routes ? I will need that to make up and decide my travel plan.

Important question:
Is it worthwhile to take overnight train and save some money from hotel(I will just stay in very budget hostel) BUT sacrificed the scenery ?? Every rural scenes from the books appeared great to me, unlike South East Asia travel. In Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, for instance, I will not be interested on the rural scenes.

A book mentioned this are the 2 most scenic railway road In Europe(beside 1 from Oslo): Rome to PaLermo and Zermatt to St Moritz. Any truth ? Which route is equally beautiful ?

Switzerland - Is Bern and Geneva more popular places to visit ? The travel book I have don't mention Zurich, Lucerne and Interlaken in it.

Is accommodation generally cheaper in the resort towns(like those in Switzerland or Alps) compared to the big cities ?(I refer to the cheaper hostels)

Generally, is it worthwhile to cut short in major cities and make more trips to the rural or smaller towns ?(consider if I buy a railpass).

What is the best time to travel if I wish to avoid the hot and expensive summer months ? Why Travel Books normally mention just Summers and Winters ?? What about Autumns and Springs.

Railpass rail, if I travel overnight, is it considered 1 day or 2 days used ?

I guess I am too much and greedy in 1 messages. Thats about all now, hope you can give some opinions or answers.

Thank you again !

Yes, you can save money sleeping on trains, but consider:

- If you are to get a good night's rest, the trip should be uninterrupted. Most trains make at least some stops, and many require changes of trains.

- Sleeping in a chair is possible, but lying down is better. A <i>couchette</i> costs extra, and a compartment costs as much as a hotel.

- You don't lose any sightseeing time if you take the last train in the evening that arrives before midnight. Most of your destinations will be within a four-hour ride of one another. You can relax and have dinner on the train.

&lt;Why Travel Books normally mention just Summers and Winters ?? What about Autumns and Springs&gt;

I don't know why. Spring and fall are good times to travel and might be a little bit cheaper than summer.

Hello Traveller,
You have posed interesting questions. We need some more information. Do you simply want to see/view the scenery? Take the bus. Do you want time in large cities? Take the train. Best may be tour busses doing sites or places you select. Europeans are great tourists. Many are not interested in a general kind of tour. Most want the quickest way to an exotic tourist location; usually a warm seaside spa. Again, how old are you? Are you aggressive or timid? Maybe I should ask, &quot;Self reliant?&quot;. Try reading Bill Bryson, his books about travel in Europe.

Thanks Robespierre,

If I take a night train, I will be only seeing night views. Isn't day views better for country and rural scenery ?

Any particular route that you will suggest should not miss ?

Hi suze,

I have seen your post on recommending some day trips.
Can you you recommemend me some good day trips that I can reach the places on my own without a guide or travel agents ? Best are those I can go in the morning and come back in the night without checking out and carrying my luggage along and cover many places. I don't mind changing buses and trains often.
Thanks

Hi Gsteed,

I am in my early 40s, male. I am still energetic and can walk alot. I enjoy European country scenes and travel alone.
Greatly appreciate if you can just give any info and opinions as this is my first trip to Europe.

&quot;If you are set on bus travel, I would suggest you research the routes you might take, and add up the total number of hours you will be spending on a bus during 1 month to see 6 countries. I'm guessing this reality might (but I could be wrong) change your initial plan somewhat if not substantially.&quot;

This is small potatoes compared to the time you spend getting lost while driving. In Europe you have two choices: 1) the aggrevation of driving tiny roads roads that wind around like bowls of spahetti, with no signs and where you can't ask locals for directions and you can relax on a train with a cup of cappuccino and watch the scenary or perhaps a movie.

OK, I exaggerated, but only slightly. Driving is hell in or near European cities and should be avoided.

Hi, chinesefan. I can remember my first trip to Europe in the 70's. My friends and I wanted to sample some of the places we had heard so much about. I think 30 days is ample time to do just that. I didn't become obsessed with the &quot;in depth&quot; experience of concentrating on a single country until many trips later, and I enjoyed each of the &quot;sampler&quot; trips very, very much. It's just a different mode of travel.

Here are my recommendations. Buy a railpass. Select one or at most two (if you stay in some countries longer than others) small towns on rail routes in each country as your places to stay. Daytrip from each. Buy a good railmap to help you make your choices. Research to find hostels, one- or two-star hotels, or bed&amp;breakfasts. You'll find that you receive a better rate if you stay at least 3 nights, even better for 5 or 6. Eat the heck out of the breakfast that comes with your room. Snack at noon or skip lunch altogether. Alternate evening restaurant menus (the daily special with several courses) with meals you assemble at grocery stores or markets.

Do you have access to a library with lots of books on European rail travel. In the 70's Europe on $5 a Day was my bible, and we almost managed it. Have fun planning. p.s. I know nothing about European bus passes. It is possible that they might be your best buy, but oh, how I love European trains. By the way, if you don't require great comfort, you can save a night's lodging by taking night trains. On my first trip, we zig-zagged across Europe so we had several night train sleeps. I've such great memories of those trips. J.

Good questions about the night travel. In the summertime, the sun sets in northern Europe well into the evening. I have played golf in Scotland at midnight. Check on sunrisesunset.com to get an idea of the times.

You will also see plenty of countryside whilst enroute to and from your day trip destinations.

Your EurailPass will be accompanied by a rail map and timetable. Until you receive it, this map may help in your planning:

<b>http://www.raileurope.com/us/common/rail_map</b>

Check out the bonuses for each country at eurailpass.com

I do not have good advice for day trips, sorry.

I think if you first map out your overall plan, figure out a route, what cities and countries you will travel to and in what order, which Rail Pass will be best - that all would come first.

Later you can plan some day trips into the countryside. You can even wait until you are in Europe to figure that part out.

Dear suze,

I saw your post on some suggested itinerary in Switzerland, so lovely !!

Can you give me some ??

The Travel Book I have mentioned Geneva and Bern but nothing on Zurich and Lucerne, shall I skip Z and L ?

Dear J,
Thank you very much.
I have that $5 per day book too when I have my dream to travel Europe as a youngster but never made it. So sad, I get rid of the book some years later.
Can you let me know how much will it costs to spend average per day now based on 1 or 2 nights ? I will not make it to 3, maybe except for Paris, Rome or London.
Based on your $5 per day then standard, how much do you think I need to spend in 30 days ?
Any &quot;not to miss&quot; route or place will you suggest ?

Rob,

Thank you again.

Hi, chinesefan. I'm not able to quote a cost per day staying only one or two nights per hotel, because nowdays I stay in one hotel for four or five nights to receive the best price. (and I limit my stars to two.) If you plan your locations and research the number of daytrips possible from each, you will certainly save a lot by taking advantage of the reductions for additional nights. You might enjoy looking at the websites parisbandb.com, romebandb, and londonbandb. Perhaps the books of &quot;Let's Go Europe&quot; may have some low-cost recommendations, too. In Italy, it is possible to stay in convents. Folks here at this forum can recommend. Looking into the possibilty of staying in hostels might be good, too. I don't know if they have age requirements or not, but I'm sure some folks here can supply that expertise. Don't give up on your dream. J.

Take a look at Rick Steves 'Best of Europe' book. He covers a type of whirlwind 3 week trip you have in mind. I think his plan is too rushed but it gives you good sense of the sequence of places to visit and how to get from one place to another. I also think rail is much better. Price out your itinerary on railsaver to determine what type of pass is best for you.

Take a look at

letsgo.com

and

hostelworld.com

Hi Chinesefan,
(a) Your ethnic background won't make much difference to the way people treat you. Sadly nowhere is completely free of racism, but most people who are friendly or rude to you will be friendly or rude to everyone. If you speak English as well as you write it you'll be OK in any English speaking place. The different European nationalities all have their own personalities, some are by nature more friendly and outgoing and others are more reserved, but if you learn the basics in the language of anywhere else you want to visit, they'll appreciate the effort and will probably speak English back to you if that's your best European Language.
I agree with those who say you're trying to do toomuch in thirty days, but it's largely a matter of personal choice. The same goes for the choice between bus and train - train will usually be faster, more comfortable but more expensive. But a lot of places have busses and don't have trains.
You asked about scenic train journeys. The West Highland Line from Glasgow to Fort William and Mallaig is widely regarded as one of the top ten rail journeys in the world. I don't think you could fit it into a schedule of 7 countries (not just 6 if you're going to Scotland as well as England)in 30 days.
As for summers and winters, most services will run all year round but away from the main cities the timetable might be less in winter. In high mountain areas they sometimes have to close the roads because of heavy snow or avalanche risk.

Hi,

J, Anya, Craig and all, thank you very much for your help again.

Anyone know if we can drop personal e-mail to each other ? How can I do it ?

Hi J,

I will check those websites but appreciate if you can let me know:
a) Will rooms in the smaller towns or resorts area cost less than the major cities ?? For eg. Will rooms in Capri, Assissi, Naples, etc cheaper than in Rome or Venice ?(I refer to hostels or 1 or 2 stars)
b) How much will a 2 stars hotel room for 3 or 4 nights now ? Will there be much price difference with a room for 1 or 2 persons ? Are all 2 persons room come with 2 single beds ?
c) I heard about some cheap rooms with no bathroom, in this case, how is the public bathroom normally like ? Individual private bath or open bath ?
d) Is drinking water provided in cheap hotels ? Is tap water safe to drink in Europe ?

Hi Craig,

Beside that, do you know of any other rail route or cruise with great scenes that a Eurail pass can use without much extra charge ?